As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Physical Therapy Assisting Undergrad loans?

manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?!Registered User regular
edited July 2018 in Help / Advice Forum
So, I was just accepted into Touro University's Nevada DPT program. At first, I was thrilled. I applied to every other PT school on the West Coast, and this was the only one I made it into.

Unfortunately, there's very little I can find in the way of statistics of the program. And the User/Program reviews are all pretty horrifying. Descrimination, cohort sizes cut from 35-20, failing classes over a few points. Not to mention, their program isn't listed on U.S. News Graduate Program ranking.

I'm not fully committed yet, but I am starting the process of applying for FAFSA and other loans. I simply cannot afford to start a program and not finish it. Hearing stories of a cohort being slashed by 1/3 is really, really giving me pause. I'm a good student, but for crying out loud, I'm putting up almost 200k minimum. This really has me worried and I'm not sure what I can do.

manwiththemachinegun on

Posts

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    The peanut gallery here is unlikely to know. Are there any PT forums? They might know.

    If not, if you have cold feet, it's OK to delay for a year while you figure out if it's a good idea. No-one can afford to make a 200k mistake.

  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    I would make sure they are accredited.

    Touro has a lot of those types of programs it seems, pretty sure they have a med and a pa also.

    Honestly if they have accredidation, a class is mostly a class. its the hands on stuff/experiential stuff that matters

    camo_sig.png
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    I can't comment on most of those points, but I will say that large cuts in class sizes between semesters, and hard failure cutoffs seem pretty common in most of the medical related schools I've seen. I've not been to any, but my ex went through some crazy stuff in nursing school when she was getting her bachelors. The grad program was somewhat less crazy, but still pretty rigorous.
    I've got a friend who recently started PT school I'll see if I can get her opinion.

    steam_sig.png
  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    yea, you see it a lot in nursing programs. it makes sense, you want people who will make your program look good, otherwise you want them out after they give you money.
    also smaller cohorts is honestly better for you you can't flood the market with people or else no one gets a job
    .

    really the only flag is discrimination, However, not to suggest it can't happen but the cynic in me wonders how much of that is someone not cutting it and getting kicked out of the program shouting discrimination. I do pre-med/health career advising the the type of people going that way, it would not surprise me if that happened

    I think Touro is a relatively young school so I wouldn't worry about US News reports. I don't think that is really relevant anymore.

    again
    the only thing that matters is accreditation and any certs they need to train you.

    camo_sig.png
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    It is accredited, which is nice. I'm going to visit the school over my spring break and ask some pointed questions of the students who are actually *in* the program.

    The part that had me spooked was the discrepancy between the reported graduation rate and the slaughter of the cohort. In my experience, that is really a red flag.
    I can't comment on most of those points, but I will say that large cuts in class sizes between semesters, and hard failure cutoffs seem pretty common in most of the medical related schools I've seen. I've not been to any, but my ex went through some crazy stuff in nursing school when she was getting her bachelors. The grad program was somewhat less crazy, but still pretty rigorous.
    I've got a friend who recently started PT school I'll see if I can get her opinion.

    Yeah, that'd be great. Just ask her if there are any red flags to look out for so far as a program is concerned.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    I would be really really cautious about joining an unknown medical program at high cost. I can’t really get a good sense of what the college even does? That isn’t a good thing.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    A DPT is a doctorate in Physical Therapy. As opposed to a PTA which is still certified in the field, but not a doctor, and generally can't diagnose or evaluate patients. Touro has a DPT program, but here are a few choice comments about the school.
    I am a student here at TUN (Touro University Nevada I assume) and the PT program is absolutely awful. I was hoping for a great education but the professors think it's really important to spend the most amount of time and effort learning non-PT related things or working on useless projects like writing detailed APA papers, learning about disability and children, extensive research and statistics, etc. etc... I'm a third year student and don't feel ready for the real world because they didn't prepare me. The most I've learned by far was from simply reading PT books on my own.

    As for the school in general they are also horrible. They are much too expensive because they are always spending soooo much money on useless things that no student actually uses. They require you to buy a $1300 laptop that you could easily buy elsewhere for $400 with software and everything. And they force you to get COMPREHENSIVE health insurance even if you don't need it.

    In all I spent ~$120,000 on a horrible experience. I'll have fun making that up later in life ;)
    I am a student at Touro University Nevada. WARNING TO ALL STUDENTS! They have the WORST health insurance of all time. The health insurance tries everything they can to get out of the claims, and they are expensive. This is not just my experience, but they experience that every student in my class with health insurance from school has had. I submitted a claim in November... it is now MARCH and it still has not been processed. The hospital actually sent me a note saying they do not believe that I have health insurance because it has taken so long. They send you all of the superfluous forms to fill out/

    Also, the program that I am in is okay..... not great.

    Now I ALWAYS follow the rule of, "one terrible review does not make or break anything." However, I have yet to find ONE wholly positive review of the program. Which, of course, has me a little concernicus maximus.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    To be frank, the faculty have ... limited credentials. They all receive internal grant funding only and their publication records are dismal. Nearly all of them have been at one university or another. Sometimes in higher positions. The whole thing looks absolutely bizarre.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I had heard in another comment the faculty turnover is super high as well, which was also worrying.

  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    My wife took a class from Touro related to getting a teaching license and liked it well enough. It was significantly more expensive than the CUNY school she was otherwise going to. I think it was the stereotypical bs online class, but that's what she wanted so it worked out. No idea about anything other than that.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    My thing is cell biology and labs, so when I look at a school I'm not too interested in anything but "how cool are the lab classes," "do they facilitate independent research," and "how much will the professors let you help with their projects." If I don't get to isolate any RNA or maintain any cell lines or run any purification procedures, I don't care. Learning some of this stuff means looking up individual classes you think you'll be taking and getting in contact (via email these days, usually) with the professors and/or department responsible for curriculum and teaching the classes. It pays to be really proactive about this stuff. It also gives some of these people a chance to learn your name as someone interested in their work before you've even signed anything.

    That's the advice given to me by my former research adviser -- if you have questions, reach out to the professors themselves, and do it as soon as you know you're interested in their program/area of expertise.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Popping in here during vacation, I could sense the College signal.
    Once again, bias report: I am a staff administrator at a major public university and have worked in a wide range of fields from graduate admissions, financial aid, advising, and academic assessment. I do not live in your region, and do not know anything about this school beyond what I reviewed this morning. This review is my take from the facts presented, but I will always have bias towards public schools rather than private non-profit and for-profit except where quality is well published and assured.

    Their accreditation is active for both the PA program and their overall accreditation with the Western Association of Colleges and Schools. They have a number of graduates and appear to be a legitimate medical school on paper. While they claim to be non-religious affiliated, it is a Judaic-sponsored school (which I assume is rather similar to the Christian colleges in the south of being mostly secular where it counts with some pretty specific student policy issues). That said, this does come up in the student reviews from the western US (though their worldwide campuses abroad don't seem to have any negative issues with the religious element). I tried to limit my data set to Nevada, Oregon, and California campuses where possible.

    Diversity:
    Re: your diversity question, Princeton Review has some interesting figures to help with that on their free page: https://www.princetonreview.com/grad/touro-university-worldwide-9459727
    These do appear outdated by a few years, so probably the only ones worth looking at are racial diversity and gender parity.

    Faculty Complaints:
    My worry would be the faculty. They do have a faculty senate, which is good! They also have a very low perception from incoming faculty and appear to have a very high turnover rate, which is bad. Outgoing faculty reviews are... not great. They never are, mind you, but these all come with the same consistent statement: Underpaid faculty, overpaid administration, lack of respect, lack of diversity. The first one is probably said by everyone who leaves a job ever, but many provided examples of faculty at Touro being paid 20-40% less than other local PA schools, which is... really alarming. That means the folks teaching are either new professors seeking to find some work history, locals who don't want to move beyond the area even for higher pay, or are non-viable candidates at other schools and are willing to take the pay cut. All three are equally likely, and your best faculty here probably fall in that second category. Lots of faculty are willing to take pay cuts to not leave their hometowns (its a really common thing), but in my experience they are 30% at best when you have this scenario.

    Student Complaints:
    From a half hour read this morning, online reviews seem to repeat the same four complaints:
    • Students commonly report passive discrimination for people of color or those who are not Jewish (at least one on every site I've seen, usually multiple). This could be angry students looking for an easy place to put blame for failing, but it's so often repeated I lean towards thinking it is something to be concerned about.
    • Students complain about lack of institutional support (from everything from parking to faculty accessibility, there are reviews out there saying their administrative structure simply isn't available or doesn't care and that, for those who do care in the staff, they are so underpaid that turnover is extremely high). As a staff support person at my institution, that is a big red flag for me.
    • Really volatile student grading. Several sites report that student grading is especially wonky, with unusually easy grading in your first two terms followed by extremely difficult grading that all but the most motivated will be unprepared for. This, along with the chain campus system their business model operates on, follows with what I would expect from a predatory school (like Keiser). You bring students in for easy curriculum, milk them for the first few semesters, then smash them before graduation to keep your graduate quality in line with what you want for your accreditation rankings. This may not be the case for Touro, but enough signs are there that I would suspect it.
    • While not commented on often, and possibly a symptom of PA schools as a whole, the lowest rankings on the sites I checked out was always "Preparation for Field." This isn't unusual, per se (people who leave bad reviews are often those who don't feel they succeeded), but with the other items does have me a bit worried.

    Recommendation:
    Given the stuff I have seen here, along with the fact this is the only school you got into on first round, I would be very cautious. I would recommend getting in touch with the public medical schools that denied you to find out why they did and how to improve your applications for next round over investing the many, many thousands of dollars in a school with any degree of ambiguity in quality. If, after doing so, the public/more reputable schools make it clear they will not take you and that Touro is your only option in the field, before you enroll go talk with the placed you want to work at to see if they have any specific reputation concerns with the school. If all the local practitioners think Touro is fine, then it may be worth it (but if so, it does appear you will need to be highly motivated and self-directed in your studies to complete).

    Again, be very cautious here. You are investing ~$50-80k on this. Washing out midway or not being able to find a position at the end are real bad things for the rest of your life. Do the homework, and determine if the answer is the easily available one (Touro), or if you can rise up to the level of the more competitive schools.

    Enc on
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Thanks so much! That was pretty much my main concern, I cannot afford to start a program and drop midway through. I know I can make it through a PT program, but I don't want to be miserable for 3 years either. Especially at that price take.

  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Popping in here during vacation, I could sense the College signal.
    Once again, bias report: I am a staff administrator at a major public university and have worked in a wide range of fields from graduate admissions, financial aid, advising, and academic assessment. I do not live in your region, and do not know anything about this school beyond what I reviewed this morning. This review is my take from the facts presented, but I will always have bias towards public schools rather than private non-profit and for-profit except where quality is well published and assured.

    Their accreditation is active for both the PA program and their overall accreditation with the Western Association of Colleges and Schools. They have a number of graduates and appear to be a legitimate medical school on paper. While they claim to be non-religious affiliated, it is a Judaic-sponsored school (which I assume is rather similar to the Christian colleges in the south of being mostly secular where it counts with some pretty specific student policy issues). That said, this does come up in the student reviews from the western US (though their worldwide campuses abroad don't seem to have any negative issues with the religious element). I tried to limit my data set to Nevada, Oregon, and California campuses where possible.

    Diversity:
    Re: your diversity question, Princeton Review has some interesting figures to help with that on their free page: https://www.princetonreview.com/grad/touro-university-worldwide-9459727
    These do appear outdated by a few years, so probably the only ones worth looking at are racial diversity and gender parity.

    Faculty Complaints:
    My worry would be the faculty. They do have a faculty senate, which is good! They also have a very low perception from incoming faculty and appear to have a very high turnover rate, which is bad. Outgoing faculty reviews are... not great. They never are, mind you, but these all come with the same consistent statement: Underpaid faculty, overpaid administration, lack of respect, lack of diversity. The first one is probably said by everyone who leaves a job ever, but many provided examples of faculty at Touro being paid 20-40% less than other local PA schools, which is... really alarming. That means the folks teaching are either new professors seeking to find some work history, locals who don't want to move beyond the area even for higher pay, or are non-viable candidates at other schools and are willing to take the pay cut. All three are equally likely, and your best faculty here probably fall in that second category. Lots of faculty are willing to take pay cuts to not leave their hometowns (its a really common thing), but in my experience they are 30% at best when you have this scenario.

    Student Complaints:
    From a half hour read this morning, online reviews seem to repeat the same four complaints:
    • Students commonly report passive discrimination for people of color or those who are not Jewish (at least one on every site I've seen, usually multiple). This could be angry students looking for an easy place to put blame for failing, but it's so often repeated I lean towards thinking it is something to be concerned about.
    • Students complain about lack of institutional support (from everything from parking to faculty accessibility, there are reviews out there saying their administrative structure simply isn't available or doesn't care and that, for those who do care in the staff, they are so underpaid that turnover is extremely high). As a staff support person at my institution, that is a big red flag for me.
    • Really volatile student grading. Several sites report that student grading is especially wonky, with unusually easy grading in your first two terms followed by extremely difficult grading that all but the most motivated will be unprepared for. This, along with the chain campus system their business model operates on, follows with what I would expect from a predatory school (like Keiser). You bring students in for easy curriculum, milk them for the first few semesters, then smash them before graduation to keep your graduate quality in line with what you want for your accreditation rankings. This may not be the case for Touro, but enough signs are there that I would suspect it.
    • While not commented on often, and possibly a symptom of PA schools as a whole, the lowest rankings on the sites I checked out was always "Preparation for Field." This isn't unusual, per se (people who leave bad reviews are often those who don't feel they succeeded), but with the other items does have me a bit worried.

    Recommendation:
    Given the stuff I have seen here, along with the fact this is the only school you got into on first round, I would be very cautious. I would recommend getting in touch with the public medical schools that denied you to find out why they did and how to improve your applications for next round over investing the many, many thousands of dollars in a school with any degree of ambiguity in quality. If, after doing so, the public/more reputable schools make it clear they will not take you and that Touro is your only option in the field, before you enroll go talk with the placed you want to work at to see if they have any specific reputation concerns with the school. If all the local practitioners think Touro is fine, then it may be worth it (but if so, it does appear you will need to be highly motivated and self-directed in your studies to complete).

    Again, be very cautious here. You are investing ~$50-80k on this. Washing out midway or not being able to find a position at the end are real bad things for the rest of your life. Do the homework, and determine if the answer is the easily available one (Touro), or if you can rise up to the level of the more competitive schools.


    Quick question that probably doesn’t change the overall recommendation, but probably should be clarified. I noticed you kept mentioning PA program and not the DPT is that a typo or were you looking at the Physician Assistant program not the Doctorate of Physical Therapy? Even if you were I wouldn’t expect the two programs to be that different from the points mentioned (it doesn’t negate the awesome research you just did!), just thought it should be clarified.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    Popping in here during vacation, I could sense the College signal.
    Once again, bias report: I am a staff administrator at a major public university and have worked in a wide range of fields from graduate admissions, financial aid, advising, and academic assessment. I do not live in your region, and do not know anything about this school beyond what I reviewed this morning. This review is my take from the facts presented, but I will always have bias towards public schools rather than private non-profit and for-profit except where quality is well published and assured.

    Their accreditation is active for both the PA program and their overall accreditation with the Western Association of Colleges and Schools. They have a number of graduates and appear to be a legitimate medical school on paper. While they claim to be non-religious affiliated, it is a Judaic-sponsored school (which I assume is rather similar to the Christian colleges in the south of being mostly secular where it counts with some pretty specific student policy issues). That said, this does come up in the student reviews from the western US (though their worldwide campuses abroad don't seem to have any negative issues with the religious element). I tried to limit my data set to Nevada, Oregon, and California campuses where possible.

    Diversity:
    Re: your diversity question, Princeton Review has some interesting figures to help with that on their free page: https://www.princetonreview.com/grad/touro-university-worldwide-9459727
    These do appear outdated by a few years, so probably the only ones worth looking at are racial diversity and gender parity.

    Faculty Complaints:
    My worry would be the faculty. They do have a faculty senate, which is good! They also have a very low perception from incoming faculty and appear to have a very high turnover rate, which is bad. Outgoing faculty reviews are... not great. They never are, mind you, but these all come with the same consistent statement: Underpaid faculty, overpaid administration, lack of respect, lack of diversity. The first one is probably said by everyone who leaves a job ever, but many provided examples of faculty at Touro being paid 20-40% less than other local PA schools, which is... really alarming. That means the folks teaching are either new professors seeking to find some work history, locals who don't want to move beyond the area even for higher pay, or are non-viable candidates at other schools and are willing to take the pay cut. All three are equally likely, and your best faculty here probably fall in that second category. Lots of faculty are willing to take pay cuts to not leave their hometowns (its a really common thing), but in my experience they are 30% at best when you have this scenario.

    Student Complaints:
    From a half hour read this morning, online reviews seem to repeat the same four complaints:
    • Students commonly report passive discrimination for people of color or those who are not Jewish (at least one on every site I've seen, usually multiple). This could be angry students looking for an easy place to put blame for failing, but it's so often repeated I lean towards thinking it is something to be concerned about.
    • Students complain about lack of institutional support (from everything from parking to faculty accessibility, there are reviews out there saying their administrative structure simply isn't available or doesn't care and that, for those who do care in the staff, they are so underpaid that turnover is extremely high). As a staff support person at my institution, that is a big red flag for me.
    • Really volatile student grading. Several sites report that student grading is especially wonky, with unusually easy grading in your first two terms followed by extremely difficult grading that all but the most motivated will be unprepared for. This, along with the chain campus system their business model operates on, follows with what I would expect from a predatory school (like Keiser). You bring students in for easy curriculum, milk them for the first few semesters, then smash them before graduation to keep your graduate quality in line with what you want for your accreditation rankings. This may not be the case for Touro, but enough signs are there that I would suspect it.
    • While not commented on often, and possibly a symptom of PA schools as a whole, the lowest rankings on the sites I checked out was always "Preparation for Field." This isn't unusual, per se (people who leave bad reviews are often those who don't feel they succeeded), but with the other items does have me a bit worried.

    Recommendation:
    Given the stuff I have seen here, along with the fact this is the only school you got into on first round, I would be very cautious. I would recommend getting in touch with the public medical schools that denied you to find out why they did and how to improve your applications for next round over investing the many, many thousands of dollars in a school with any degree of ambiguity in quality. If, after doing so, the public/more reputable schools make it clear they will not take you and that Touro is your only option in the field, before you enroll go talk with the placed you want to work at to see if they have any specific reputation concerns with the school. If all the local practitioners think Touro is fine, then it may be worth it (but if so, it does appear you will need to be highly motivated and self-directed in your studies to complete).

    Again, be very cautious here. You are investing ~$50-80k on this. Washing out midway or not being able to find a position at the end are real bad things for the rest of your life. Do the homework, and determine if the answer is the easily available one (Touro), or if you can rise up to the level of the more competitive schools.


    Quick question that probably doesn’t change the overall recommendation, but probably should be clarified. I noticed you kept mentioning PA program and not the DPT is that a typo or were you looking at the Physician Assistant program not the Doctorate of Physical Therapy? Even if you were I wouldn’t expect the two programs to be that different from the points mentioned (it doesn’t negate the awesome research you just did!), just thought it should be clarified.

    Yeah, it's sort of 50/50 split. I know there's not much overlap between the two (I have heard of bridge programs but those are rare). I have to weigh getting into the field and making, you know, money, with my overall career advancement.

    I ran the numbers in Excel. With Touro, assuming I graduate. I spend 3 years in school and start with an average salary of 85k per year. If I do Whatcom's PTA program, I finish in 16 months and start with an average of 56k. Whatcom costs 14k plus living expenses, Touro perhaps upwards of 200k, with 70k minimum just in out of state tuition. With that factored in, over the next 35 years or so, I'd make 2.6 million as a PT, 2.05 as a PTA.

    I would love the bragging rights of being a doctor. But I have to weigh that against being in debt up to my eyeballs, and the stress of potentially picking a lemon, unsupportive program.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    well most places want you to be a DPT for practice at least by me

    camo_sig.png
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    So to save space on making a totally new thread @Enc , if you or others don't mind chiming in that'd be a big help.

    So I got accepted to Whatcom Community College's PTA program which was a big relief. It's in my home state which means it'll cost much less. The problem is, I already have a Masters in Teaching (for all the good it did me), and as such my total combined FAFSA subsidized and subsidized are currently at around 43,000 not counting interest. The problem is, the PTA program is defined as an UNDERgraduate, and government loans cap out at 57,000. That's 14k for what's going to be an 18k per year program, and the program itself is 15 months long. I'm probably going to need around 25k total. Which isn't apocalyptic but still something to deal with.

    I know there are worse fixes to be in since I can likely get a private loan since I have good credit, but still, I'm trying to stay a step ahead of financial aid which is still processing my initial FAFSA.

  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Whatcom looks to be a properly accredited institution, with a pretty solid history. From what I can see, the PT program is also properly accredited (though I'm not as familiar with the northwest, so I'm taking some of this as face value from the accreditation sites).

    A bunch of scholarships through the school might be able to shave off of some of that: http://whatcom.edu/get-started/scholarships
    Given your current education level, not sure how much of that can be subsidized.

    How can you pay out of pocket each semester? Are there work-study opportunities with the school that you could use your teaching degree to get that might include a tuition waiver?
    https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/whatcomcc

    Washington State pays well above the national average for PTA, which is good. Looks like the average entry pay is ~41k, which should make paying your debt off a bit quicker. Anything you can do now to try and mitigate that would be a great idea though. With how much you owe there isn't really getting around that you'll be paying that off for a long while.
    https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/31-2021.00

    The general complaints about Whatcom look to be the usual ones you see on every campus, and most review sites give it a B+ (which is pretty darn good for a CC). Seems like a solid institution.

    What other sort of information are you thinking about?

    Enc on
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Yeah, I was really excited because most of the people I work with graduated from there. It basically comes down to just making sure I have enough cash to make it through the program. I have a few thousand in personal saving and a good chunk in my IRA, but I was hoping to avoid having to dip into that as much as possible. I'd rather take on a bigger private loan than shoot myself by taking money out of my IRA which is happily making me a decent chunk of change. There's also some support from family, but they have their own problems and I'd rather take on that debt personally than let them deal with it.

    The issue with a lot of those college scholarships is, I'm a single white guy under 60 with no kids, so that cuts things down substantially. In addition, because the program starts in the fall, many of those deadlines have expired for the year. I only found out I was accepted into the program three weeks ago.

    I'm not sure if a tuition waiver would apply at all, but my financial councilor from my last school said it was a good idea to ask them for an exception. I checked the website and it seems that only applies for Seniors, WA state employees, etc.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    The employee thing is what I'm talking about. Lots of folks go to work for institutions in order to pay for their tuition (or see if their employers are willing to cover a share). Might be an option for you.

  • mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    yea your option might be to just take out a non subsidized loan on top of the subsidized through fafsa/etc sucks but always an option

    camo_sig.png
Sign In or Register to comment.