So I had a game where my zag was vs a solo lane Yrel.
I took Serated Spines at lv 4 to see how it'd do since I knew I could get a ton of AAs in.
Talent is a permanent dmg increase of 0.3 per AA on a hero.
I got up to 80ish stacks by the end of the game, but still wasn't sure how much it added.
Did the numbers just now in try mode.... even at lv 20 each hit only adds 0.3, so there's definitely diminishing returns the longer the game goes on.
Compared to 30 stacks at lv 10... a more likely scenario. 8% in AAdamage increase.
So.... not sure.... if worth... I mean, that's still not a small amount.
But at any rate, I just had a game where I tried Wrath and when I got to 200 stacks I had hit 58 heroes with dunks and only about 24 or so heroes were hit with wrath shots.
That's my point on the whole Wrath vs Gluttony thing. Your playstyle is safer and your dunks get stronger, faster than wrath. (This is mainly a continuation of a discussion I had last night with some people from the East Coast NGS team about my Azmo build choice)
also i know we were talking about this last page but i want to bring it up again because you're missing a very crucial piece of the puzzle re: Wrath
so Wrath is not just about an alternate way to gain stacks (although a large part of it is)
it is also VERY MUCH about the 200 quest reward with getting the bonus AA damage. THAT is what makes Wrath such a powerhouse. at level 20 with let's say 300 annihilation, you dunk someone for ~954. then you AA them for 479. with 400 annihilation that's a dunk for ~1104 and an AA for 579.
the best part is that it works with Bombardment. so if you dunk three people, they each get marked, and then Bombardment will trigger off that bonus AA damage on ALL three people. Wrath's quest reward is basically adding half a dunk to your burst. it's insane. it is HUGE burst. it's even better with black pool at 20.
all Gluttony affords you is CDR on Q. i'd take half a dunk on top of my dunk any day of the week. i also STRONGLY disagree that it is "faster than Wrath". i've had games where i've gotten 100 stacks just from Wrath alone. if you're not getting any value from Wrath that means you're not positioning close enough and you're not working in autos.
i love drafting absolute garbage and then have the guy who solidified the team going "stop complaining about picks, go play a different game" as we get steamrolled in 12 minutes because our comp was absolute garbage.
maybe, just maybe, the draft matters? and if you want to play whatever you want you should play quick match, jesus.
Scarlet Monastery? Clearly the next hero is its most famous boss, Bloodmage Thalnos, with a big WoW/Hearthstone crossover event. Here we go, bois!
He has 1 health and his autoattacks deal 1 damage, and his trait gives 1% spelldamage to an ally! And when he dies, you draw a card! ...Whatever that is.
Scarlet Monastery? Clearly the next hero is its most famous boss, Bloodmage Thalnos, with a big WoW/Hearthstone crossover event. Here we go, bois!
He has 1 health and his autoattacks deal 1 damage, and his trait gives 1% spelldamage to an ally! And when he dies, you draw a card! ...Whatever that is.
It's an amazingly overpowered spell that costs 700 mana to play, so your team ends up losing before you get to cast it.
For Deckard's super healing potion talent, does the potion give upgraded healing during the animation of the upgrade or not until the animation completes?
With his new upgrades at 13/16, his Shield Trait seems to pop online much faster than before. I killed Artanis while under his wall and secured the kill. Pretty bonkers. Feels like much more of a Bruiser than before.
Level 1: Season Marksman - Solid pick to build up that AA damage. Amateur Opponent on BoE.
Level 4: Shield Battery - 100% cooldown while active and bump to 5 seconds. At worse a 2.5 second auto-CD.
Level 7: Solitaire Reaper - Clear waves much faster. More Marksman stacks! More teamfight damage! Follow Through on BoE.
Level 10: Suppression Pulse - Great for all the Raynors. But Purifier Beam good too to force someone out. Your call.
Level 13: Templar's Zeal - Here we go! Q enables D. D enables Q. Fight in a minion wave for insane reductions and shields.
Level 16: Force of Will - OMG, WTF?! Now your D triggers even faster. Putting your Q up faster. Putting your D up faster.
Level 20: Plasma Burn - Might as well give yourself an almost permanent Burning Rage (132 damage/sec at 20?!).
Just my early thoughts. Clearly I'm not the best player here, so these talent choices might not be the best. He sure seemed tanky as fuck with that shield poppin' all the time. I'm not keen on my ability to consistently land swaps, so there might be some magic in the E talents.
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No speed at level 1 is felt. Harder to weave in and pot shot the Moonfires but still doable. New heal talent at level 1 is pretty nice though.
No Iceblock is also felt at 13. That being said, 6% speed every hot is awesome and I'm a just zipping around! Still, all in all, I think these were the right changes to make him less dominant without hitting his healing numbers.
WITH THAT BEING SAID:
I want Blizz to revert Malfurion and how he heals. I LIKE this new style. It heals for a lot, you can heal people nowhere near you, and it feels impactful as the healer. BUT HE IS NOT A RESTO DRUID. He doesn't have that feel to him other than the fact that his heal still does passively heal even if you never hit anything, but that's not what a resto druid does. I just kind of miss the old way AS a druid lover, but I still enjoy the current playstyle at the same time. I don't know. And if I remember right, before this change, his winrate was actually solid and he was seeing competitive play then too.
I forget if the rework timed up with this perfectly, but the moonfire healing seemed like a trade they had to make to get rid of wave clear.
Malf had a low cooldown small aoe, but we can't let it do any damage what so ever or else he can wave clear and double support is viable, so gut the damage, now why even use it, well make it heal I guess, that's what supports do right
azmodan looks to be the best hero in the game because instead of simply buffing his early game and nerfing his late game to even out his power curve they gave him an enormous buff and now he's mostly a god.
yrel looks fairly weak now, raynor still op but less so.
so i guess now the first bans have to be azmodan raynor garrosh chromie/genji/ktz/chogall so choose the form of your destroyer.
I forget if the rework timed up with this perfectly, but the moonfire healing seemed like a trade they had to make to get rid of wave clear.
Malf had a low cooldown small aoe, but we can't let it do any damage what so ever or else he can wave clear and double support is viable, so gut the damage, now why even use it, well make it heal I guess, that's what supports do right
Yeah I suppose. What they could have done, however, is turn it kind of into what it should be which is an AOE hit and then a short duration DoT after. Put Moonfire on a 5 second cooldown. Maybe even 6. Everything hit with Moonfire also takes the initial damage as a dot over 5/6 seconds (so its like gettting hit by 2 back to back if you land one). And let it supply vision for half that time. You can even up the damage lightly if needed. But I do think a dot on the spell moonfire is very fitting since ... that's what it does?
azmodan looks to be the best hero in the game because instead of simply buffing his early game and nerfing his late game to even out his power curve they gave him an enormous buff and now he's mostly a god.
yrel looks fairly weak now, raynor still op but less so.
so i guess now the first bans have to be azmodan raynor garrosh chromie/genji/ktz/chogall so choose the form of your destroyer.
I'm wondering if they buffed him almost across the board without realising his biggest problem is that they shit all over his traditional playstyle that people actually played him for and gave him some new weird-ass playstyle that was pretty decent to begin with and so now the new one just got stronger.
See I actually disagree with that statement. I actually LIKE new Azmodan. I know some people don't but using the generalized statement of "they shat at all it" doesn't seem fair.
Like I enjoyed clearing waves, having a big sack of HP and getting good globes on team fights to still help out. What actually HURT that playstyle was having to wait until level 10 to do it because you needed Black Pool. Now you can start stacking up and do things sooner than 10! Now you can stack up in lane or team fights! Now your Lazy Lazer actually HURTS in a team fight.
Your global presence went down due to D and globe distance, sure, but to me it was an awesome trade off because it helped enable what made Azmo fun for me by doing so earlier in the game and more helpful in a team fight pre 10.
And again, I get some Azmo players won't like it. I do. But let's not assume it was a universal "defecating all over his playstyle".
+1
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah I've already stated my reasons why I disliked old Azmodan, so this is an improvement IMHO.
It's hard to say cause people haven't really adjusted playstyles yet, and I see a lot of Yrels not using their cooldowns appropriately. I managed to beat a Yrel on Artanis yesterday, though.
Artanis destroys yrel now in my experience. It was always a close thing and her sustain got hit hard and his got buffed. But he’s probably overturned now so shrug.
See I actually disagree with that statement. I actually LIKE new Azmodan. I know some people don't but using the generalized statement of "they shat at all it" doesn't seem fair.
Like I enjoyed clearing waves, having a big sack of HP and getting good globes on team fights to still help out. What actually HURT that playstyle was having to wait until level 10 to do it because you needed Black Pool. Now you can start stacking up and do things sooner than 10! Now you can stack up in lane or team fights! Now your Lazy Lazer actually HURTS in a team fight.
Your global presence went down due to D and globe distance, sure, but to me it was an awesome trade off because it helped enable what made Azmo fun for me by doing so earlier in the game and more helpful in a team fight pre 10.
And again, I get some Azmo players won't like it. I do. But let's not assume it was a universal "defecating all over his playstyle".
No, they shit all over his old playstyle. I mean, you can like his new style, sure, but old Azmodan is dead and gone. New Azmodan feels weak and ineffectual in the same role as he used to have. His globe-chucking playstyle just can't compete with his former power. Hence the across the board buffs to it they just dropped.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I still really don't understand that argument. I've watched both Dunk and Mewn play Azmo quite a few times and do well and it still involves a lot of globe chucking, both dunking heroes and waves.
See I actually disagree with that statement. I actually LIKE new Azmodan. I know some people don't but using the generalized statement of "they shat at all it" doesn't seem fair.
Like I enjoyed clearing waves, having a big sack of HP and getting good globes on team fights to still help out. What actually HURT that playstyle was having to wait until level 10 to do it because you needed Black Pool. Now you can start stacking up and do things sooner than 10! Now you can stack up in lane or team fights! Now your Lazy Lazer actually HURTS in a team fight.
Your global presence went down due to D and globe distance, sure, but to me it was an awesome trade off because it helped enable what made Azmo fun for me by doing so earlier in the game and more helpful in a team fight pre 10.
And again, I get some Azmo players won't like it. I do. But let's not assume it was a universal "defecating all over his playstyle".
No, they shit all over his old playstyle. I mean, you can like his new style, sure, but old Azmodan is dead and gone. New Azmodan feels weak and ineffectual in the same role as he used to have. His globe-chucking playstyle just can't compete with his former power. Hence the across the board buffs to it they just dropped.
Then we disagree and that's fine. I mean between the two of us, you're flat out calling someone wrong and I'm saying we have a difference of opinion on what his old playstyle was, but that's also fine I guess.
I saw his old playstyle as someone who cleared waves, threw globes, shot lasers, and sent mercs down lanes. So to me all those things still happen. Others saw it as someone who could win the whole map while never really showing up with his body in a team fight.
I mean maybe my old playstyle with Azmodan was wrong? But like it still existed for me so ... I don't know?
I think I see thigh ... I can't tell. It's a weird angle?
Ah no you’re right. The thing I thought was a skirt is the middle of the tabard.
Well maybe one of the tints will have pants or something. I trusted you hots model team!!
If they give her a Death Knight model maybe to match her WoW self? The boots seem to go fairly high up so it doesn't look like it will be a lot of thigh? Still more than the guys behind her are showing.
i've been trying it out, and also wrath like i'd been doing before
idk what the big deal with gluttony is tbh. it doesn't seem that impactful.
wrath still fucking chunks people hard
it's just QM bullshit man. team gets like artanis/nova/chromie/illidan/genji and i just fucking cry my fat crab self to sleep. the wonderful embrace of death envelops me every time i step foot out of the gate. the loving tender embrace of an artanis swap into twin blades to the face. the warm and gentle precision strike. the serene, soothing temporal loop. the x strike. everything. it's all part of me now. because i, am in parts. strewn across the floor. as i gaze up into the heavens, i curse my god, RNGesus. i curse him and ask him why. why have you forsaken me. what wrath have i wrought to bring this upon me.
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Also, I am hella drunk and won't be on hots tonight.
I took Serated Spines at lv 4 to see how it'd do since I knew I could get a ton of AAs in.
Talent is a permanent dmg increase of 0.3 per AA on a hero.
I got up to 80ish stacks by the end of the game, but still wasn't sure how much it added.
Did the numbers just now in try mode.... even at lv 20 each hit only adds 0.3, so there's definitely diminishing returns the longer the game goes on.
Compared to 30 stacks at lv 10... a more likely scenario. 8% in AAdamage increase.
So.... not sure.... if worth... I mean, that's still not a small amount.
I generally always take Medussa Blades.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
also i know we were talking about this last page but i want to bring it up again because you're missing a very crucial piece of the puzzle re: Wrath
so Wrath is not just about an alternate way to gain stacks (although a large part of it is)
it is also VERY MUCH about the 200 quest reward with getting the bonus AA damage. THAT is what makes Wrath such a powerhouse. at level 20 with let's say 300 annihilation, you dunk someone for ~954. then you AA them for 479. with 400 annihilation that's a dunk for ~1104 and an AA for 579.
the best part is that it works with Bombardment. so if you dunk three people, they each get marked, and then Bombardment will trigger off that bonus AA damage on ALL three people. Wrath's quest reward is basically adding half a dunk to your burst. it's insane. it is HUGE burst. it's even better with black pool at 20.
all Gluttony affords you is CDR on Q. i'd take half a dunk on top of my dunk any day of the week. i also STRONGLY disagree that it is "faster than Wrath". i've had games where i've gotten 100 stacks just from Wrath alone. if you're not getting any value from Wrath that means you're not positioning close enough and you're not working in autos.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
maybe, just maybe, the draft matters? and if you want to play whatever you want you should play quick match, jesus.
what
the
fuck.
that's just game over. like, that should be fucking reportable that's so bad. holy fuck people. happy fucking birthday to me.
Her hat is 2nd
So you will see teams rolling with both of them and a lot of heavy hitters
He has 1 health and his autoattacks deal 1 damage, and his trait gives 1% spelldamage to an ally! And when he dies, you draw a card! ...Whatever that is.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
With his new upgrades at 13/16, his Shield Trait seems to pop online much faster than before. I killed Artanis while under his wall and secured the kill. Pretty bonkers. Feels like much more of a Bruiser than before.
Here's my build.
Just my early thoughts. Clearly I'm not the best player here, so these talent choices might not be the best. He sure seemed tanky as fuck with that shield poppin' all the time. I'm not keen on my ability to consistently land swaps, so there might be some magic in the E talents.
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No speed at level 1 is felt. Harder to weave in and pot shot the Moonfires but still doable. New heal talent at level 1 is pretty nice though.
No Iceblock is also felt at 13. That being said, 6% speed every hot is awesome and I'm a just zipping around! Still, all in all, I think these were the right changes to make him less dominant without hitting his healing numbers.
WITH THAT BEING SAID:
I want Blizz to revert Malfurion and how he heals. I LIKE this new style. It heals for a lot, you can heal people nowhere near you, and it feels impactful as the healer. BUT HE IS NOT A RESTO DRUID. He doesn't have that feel to him other than the fact that his heal still does passively heal even if you never hit anything, but that's not what a resto druid does. I just kind of miss the old way AS a druid lover, but I still enjoy the current playstyle at the same time. I don't know. And if I remember right, before this change, his winrate was actually solid and he was seeing competitive play then too.
Anyway, just a personal thing of mine.
Malf had a low cooldown small aoe, but we can't let it do any damage what so ever or else he can wave clear and double support is viable, so gut the damage, now why even use it, well make it heal I guess, that's what supports do right
yrel looks fairly weak now, raynor still op but less so.
so i guess now the first bans have to be azmodan raynor garrosh chromie/genji/ktz/chogall so choose the form of your destroyer.
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Yeah I suppose. What they could have done, however, is turn it kind of into what it should be which is an AOE hit and then a short duration DoT after. Put Moonfire on a 5 second cooldown. Maybe even 6. Everything hit with Moonfire also takes the initial damage as a dot over 5/6 seconds (so its like gettting hit by 2 back to back if you land one). And let it supply vision for half that time. You can even up the damage lightly if needed. But I do think a dot on the spell moonfire is very fitting since ... that's what it does?
I'm wondering if they buffed him almost across the board without realising his biggest problem is that they shit all over his traditional playstyle that people actually played him for and gave him some new weird-ass playstyle that was pretty decent to begin with and so now the new one just got stronger.
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Like I enjoyed clearing waves, having a big sack of HP and getting good globes on team fights to still help out. What actually HURT that playstyle was having to wait until level 10 to do it because you needed Black Pool. Now you can start stacking up and do things sooner than 10! Now you can stack up in lane or team fights! Now your Lazy Lazer actually HURTS in a team fight.
Your global presence went down due to D and globe distance, sure, but to me it was an awesome trade off because it helped enable what made Azmo fun for me by doing so earlier in the game and more helpful in a team fight pre 10.
And again, I get some Azmo players won't like it. I do. But let's not assume it was a universal "defecating all over his playstyle".
He feels slightly overtuned now, though.
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No, they shit all over his old playstyle. I mean, you can like his new style, sure, but old Azmodan is dead and gone. New Azmodan feels weak and ineffectual in the same role as he used to have. His globe-chucking playstyle just can't compete with his former power. Hence the across the board buffs to it they just dropped.
I think I see thigh ... I can't tell. It's a weird angle?
Then we disagree and that's fine. I mean between the two of us, you're flat out calling someone wrong and I'm saying we have a difference of opinion on what his old playstyle was, but that's also fine I guess.
I saw his old playstyle as someone who cleared waves, threw globes, shot lasers, and sent mercs down lanes. So to me all those things still happen. Others saw it as someone who could win the whole map while never really showing up with his body in a team fight.
I mean maybe my old playstyle with Azmodan was wrong? But like it still existed for me so ... I don't know?
Ah no you’re right. The thing I thought was a skirt is the middle of the tabard.
Well maybe one of the tints will have pants or something. I trusted you hots model team!!
oh
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
If they give her a Death Knight model maybe to match her WoW self? The boots seem to go fairly high up so it doesn't look like it will be a lot of thigh? Still more than the guys behind her are showing.
Man ... that's gross. I assume you took Gluttony?
i've been trying it out, and also wrath like i'd been doing before
idk what the big deal with gluttony is tbh. it doesn't seem that impactful.
wrath still fucking chunks people hard
it's just QM bullshit man. team gets like artanis/nova/chromie/illidan/genji and i just fucking cry my fat crab self to sleep. the wonderful embrace of death envelops me every time i step foot out of the gate. the loving tender embrace of an artanis swap into twin blades to the face. the warm and gentle precision strike. the serene, soothing temporal loop. the x strike. everything. it's all part of me now. because i, am in parts. strewn across the floor. as i gaze up into the heavens, i curse my god, RNGesus. i curse him and ask him why. why have you forsaken me. what wrath have i wrought to bring this upon me.
and then it's all black.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
It's eh to me? Wrath does just seem better. Funny no one talks about the other one heh.
it was a good joke tbh
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
But yeah, Wrath is the way. Pew Pew.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
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