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[World of Darkness] Red Star shining at WW HQ, heads to roll

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Posts

  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    But they changed what he wrote, which sounds weird.
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    I mean, it's required to credit the author if you're going to use their work. White Wolf has the license to the work via work-for-hire. Nothing about this strikes me as unusual, except they apparently didn't bother to let Gaiman know.

    I mean the second thing.
    One of the things I think Holden is just beginning to learn which most professional writers tend to know is that the client will frequently want to change what you wrote to better suit their needs.

    It happens. A lot. It may seem pretentious to edit Neil Gaiman, but if they needed to in order to jive with the new world they're building, they're within their rights.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    But they changed what he wrote, which sounds weird.
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    I mean, it's required to credit the author if you're going to use their work. White Wolf has the license to the work via work-for-hire. Nothing about this strikes me as unusual, except they apparently didn't bother to let Gaiman know.

    I mean the second thing.
    One of the things I think Holden is just beginning to learn which most professional writers tend to know is that the client will frequently want to change what you wrote to better suit their needs.

    It happens. A lot. It may seem pretentious to edit Neil Gaiman, but if they needed to in order to jive with the new world they're building, they're within their rights.

    Talking about the manipulation rolling, not Gaiman.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    But they changed what he wrote, which sounds weird.
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Ardent wrote: »
    I mean, it's required to credit the author if you're going to use their work. White Wolf has the license to the work via work-for-hire. Nothing about this strikes me as unusual, except they apparently didn't bother to let Gaiman know.

    I mean the second thing.
    One of the things I think Holden is just beginning to learn which most professional writers tend to know is that the client will frequently want to change what you wrote to better suit their needs.

    It happens. A lot. It may seem pretentious to edit Neil Gaiman, but if they needed to in order to jive with the new world they're building, they're within their rights.

    Talking about the manipulation rolling, not Gaiman.
    Ah. Carry on.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Apologies for the double post but I've gotten my hands on V5 and browsed. I just wanted to say that I actually think the art direction was very good. It's mixed media which I think makes some people's OCD flare up, but the photography is all very good.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited August 5
    Also, bear in mind, it 's not even a complete product - not enough to fully play either sabbat or cammies. Just stick to old school and be done with.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    Apologies for the double post but I've gotten my hands on V5 and browsed. I just wanted to say that I actually think the art direction was very good. It's mixed media which I think makes some people's OCD flare up, but the photography is all very good.

    If 4e was any indication, I thought it looked sharp. I dug the photography a lot.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    edited August 5
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »

    It's okay. WW is putting out a supplement that's "a series of essays about caring for each other at the table, one that will cover issues of consent and before- and after-care for players who may be dealing with subjects that they find troubling." so that'll fix everything.

    What? Include that stuff in the core book? We wouldn't have room for the sexual coercion rules then!

    Undead Scottsman on
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    I mean, how much spoiler do you want from V5?
    You don't need rules for the Sabbat because they're a non-factor from a story perspective (they've literally left the western world in order to fight the Gehenna War). The game assumes you'll be playing Camarilla by default, presents Anarchs as the only other significant principality-holding vampires, and it does actually explain the social (i.e. feudal) system completely enough to set up the basic struggle: getting enough blood.

    So as you can see, you're provided with everything you need to play the default intended game. A game, that I will note, takes a lot of its cues from the version of Vampire played by MET.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited August 6
    It's okay. WW is putting out a supplement that's "a series of essays about caring for each other at the table, one that will cover issues of consent and before- and after-care for players who may be dealing with subjects that they find troubling." so that'll fix everything.

    What? Include that stuff in the core book? We wouldn't have room for the sexual coercion rules then!

    This disjointedness, and things like that stray 'cuckold' remaining in the book are both evidence that someone higher in the food chain at Paradox finally came to their senses, panicked and ordered heavy editing in an attempt to try and prevent further damage to the value of their expensive acquisition. I think it may also be connected to the fact that the current para CEO is moving onto the board; there may be changes in policy toward white wolf coming, as it was his baby and he was caping for it the whole time, presumably protecting it.

    While he's still in chain of command, I wonder if the new lady will be willing to be more aggressive in reminding them who's in control, and who they exist to make money for.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    So, I own V5 after giving in at GenCon after spending 15 minutes at their booth talking to them and basically trying to convince myself it wasn't going to be bad.

    I opened it up today and while I haven't read the book in its entirety, I have thumbed through enough to know this edition is probably not for me.
    There are only 5 clans left in the Camarilla, as the Brujah and Gangrel are out. To start, you get to choose from the original 7 plus Caitiff and Thin Blood. This means independents and the Sabbat are probably splat book material. Loosing choices is always a feels bad moment.

    Discipline wise, Dementation is out again for the Malkavians. Or, should I say the entire Dementation discipline is now a single level 2 power of Dominate. Thaumaturgy is renamed Blood Sorcery and merged with Quietus and there's a new discipline called Thin Blood Alchemy which is really complicated, but basically boils down to using your blood to create formulas to do stuff, including mimicking other disciplines.

    Character creation is a lot different.

    The basic workout is Core Concept > Clan and Sire > Attributes > Skills > Disciplines > Predator Type > Advantages > Convictions and Touchstones > Sea of Time (Generation).

    Generation is tied up with Blood Potency as well. As an example, we'll describe picking your Attributes. The new attributes are Charisma (social), Manipulation (social), Composure (social), Strength (physical), Dexterity (Physical), Stamina (Physical), Intelligence (Mental), Wits (Mental), and Resolve (Mental). 2 more attributes exist as a combination of those, Health is Stamina +3, and Willpower is Composure plus Resolve.

    The way it works is pick 1 attribute and put 4 dots into it, take 3 attributes and put 3 dots into them, take 4 attributes and put 2 dots into them, and finally 1attribute will have 1 dot. So, if I created a Surgeon it might look like Int 4, Dex 3, Wits 3, Resolve 3, Str 2, Stam 2, Manip 2, Comp 2, Cha 1, with 5 health and 5 willpower.

    Skills are a package deal as well, and you choose between a package of Jack of All Trades, Balanced, and Specialist.

    All in all, it feels like less options than before.

    And yes, it does feel like the book was written specifically to appeal to those who like pushing the boundaries.

    Like I said, I haven't read the whole thing, but I'm just not feeling the changes I've read as of yet. Maybe I'll like it once I read through it, but my initial reaction is that I regret buying it.

  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    It's okay. WW is putting out a supplement that's "a series of essays about caring for each other at the table, one that will cover issues of consent and before- and after-care for players who may be dealing with subjects that they find troubling." so that'll fix everything.

    What? Include that stuff in the core book? We wouldn't have room for the sexual coercion rules then!

    This disjointedness, and things like that stray 'cuckold' remaining in the book are both evidence that someone higher in the food chain at Paradox finally came to their senses, panicked and ordered heavy editing in an attempt to try and prevent further damage to the value of their expensive acquisition. I think it may also be connected to the fact that the current para CEO is moving onto the board; there may be changes in policy toward white wolf coming, as it was his baby and he was caping for it the whole time, presumably protecting it.

    While he's still in chain of command, I wonder if the new lady will be willing to be more aggressive in reminding them who's in control, and who they exist to make money for.
    I don't think you understand corporate board structure and you definitely don't get why this change probably just means more protection of the personally-prized asset rather than less. Remember, White Wolf is functionally separate from Paradox. Meaning that they answer to the board but not necessarily to Paradox' CEO.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    edited August 7
    Possibly someone not him on that board had that hissy then; or possibly it was Frederik himself that had that attack of common sense and ordered them to clean up their mess. It still has the odor of something handed down from above and sloppily implemented in a hurry.

    Jeep-Eep on
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    edited August 7
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Possibly someone not him on that board had that hissy then; or possibly it was Frederik himself that had that attack of common sense and ordered them to clean up their mess. It still has the odor of something handed down from above and sloppily implemented in a hurry.
    Ebba Ljungerud comes from a gaming development background and is focused on developing the company's existing IPs and franchises for maximum returns, which is what she's done with a subsidiary's gambling enterprise.

    I think the board may have seen Wester's comments about not wanting to release bad (video) games and asked whether he'd be more comfortable simply managing the board as executive chairman. The answer is apparently "yes," and it's important to note that while a chairman reports to the CEO, the CEO reports to an executive chairman. Meaning Wester is still very much in control of Paradox.

    Think of an executive chairman as exactly like a CEO except they're also in charge of the CEO. The distinction is the CEO is responsible for day-to-day while an EC typically worries more about "big picture" stuff like strategic partnerships and business exploration.

    It's the role Larry Page took at Google, as an example.

    Ardent on
    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Well, here's a thing.


    DkfENAZUUAI08PY.jpg

    Our 'weird shit' ST in Tampa LOVED Wraith.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
    MrVyngaard
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    I finally picked up the Adamantium Arrow book, the last of the five orders, and it is really good so far. I didn't think they'd be this interesting.

    Before this, I'd have ranked the books: Mysterium > Guardians > Ladder > Council (it's paper thin)

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • AthenorAthenor Who needs lions when you have a battlecruiser? Registered User regular
    I never actually played Wraith, despite my GM really wanting to.

    It just seemed like an even harder setting to get something going in than Changeling Golem (or whatever that one was where you played homunculi brought to life).

    Like there was very little driving conflict.

    iLaXVZ7.png
    Official member of the Grilling Gentry

    "Brevity is the soul of getting your shit read." - Tube
    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    cj iwakura
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I've ordered the 5e rulebook for Vampire through work. Will report back.

    One thing I've noticed is that there are a million different youtube videos to help with playing D&D, but nothing like that for WoD

    Brainleech
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I've ordered the 5e rulebook for Vampire through work. Will report back.

    One thing I've noticed is that there are a million different youtube videos to help with playing D&D, but nothing like that for WoD

    It's a niche existence. I see the same thing at every tabletop convention. D&D everywhere, ask about WoD and people are like 'what's that'.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, penny and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    i hate it

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    i hate it

    ...Could you elaborate?

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • KadokenKadoken One batch, two batch, penny and hIIIIII Registered User regular
    I am coming from a contrarian point of view, also because I think the system is unfun and its common lore is uninteresting, but I don’t like the saturation DnD has in the RPG scene. I will totally admit I am coming from the shitty position that I don’t like the thing because it’s popular, but I am also coming from a position that I don’t understand why it’s popular from what I have played of it. I also feel like while DnD is a neat gateway drug the fact that it happens that in an RPG convention, not a DnD convention, that no knows about a long running staple (in my mind) RPG is sad.

    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    MrVyngaard
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Didn't Pathfinder kinda eat D&D's lunch, or was that just my gaming group?

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Didn't Pathfinder kinda eat D&D's lunch, or was that just my gaming group?

    I thought Pathfinder was what if D&D was not influenced by MMOs

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Didn't Pathfinder kinda eat D&D's lunch, or was that just my gaming group?

    I thought Pathfinder was what if D&D was not influenced by MMOs

    Pathfinder was "Hey, you apparently don't like the new edition of D&D, so we took the literal previous edition and heaped on a shitton more mechanics."

    MsAnthropyjakobaggerMrVyngaardNyhtMoridin889
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Didn't Pathfinder kinda eat D&D's lunch, or was that just my gaming group?

    I thought Pathfinder was what if D&D was not influenced by MMOs

    Pathfinder was "Hey, you apparently don't like the new edition of D&D, so we took the literal previous edition and heaped on a shitton more mechanics."

    I don't know as what I said was my take as I got back into D&D in 4th but I really only played Dark Sun and a home brew of ideas from Dark Sun into D&D
    I only flipped though the Pathfinder rulebook

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I've ordered the 5e rulebook for Vampire through work. Will report back.

    One thing I've noticed is that there are a million different youtube videos to help with playing D&D, but nothing like that for WoD

    It's a niche existence. I see the same thing at every tabletop convention. D&D everywhere, ask about WoD and people are like 'what's that'.

    This is funny because it isn't really niche in RPG circles so much as it is a bastard to run in a convention style game. Also the IP owners have virtually no convention support system, albeit in favor of other organized play stuff.

    BrainleechAuralynxMatev
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    WoD is big... for an RPG. It's like Shadowrun, RPG fans know about it, but in the widespread world D&D has a much larger marketshare and is the only thing most people have heard of.

    Honestly the best thing WoD could do for more exposure is more good video games.

    BrainleechDevoutlyApatheticMatev
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    I am coming from a contrarian point of view, also because I think the system is unfun and its common lore is uninteresting, but I don’t like the saturation DnD has in the RPG scene. I will totally admit I am coming from the shitty position that I don’t like the thing because it’s popular, but I am also coming from a position that I don’t understand why it’s popular from what I have played of it. I also feel like while DnD is a neat gateway drug the fact that it happens that in an RPG convention, not a DnD convention, that no knows about a long running staple (in my mind) RPG is sad.

    Oh, I thought you meant VtM 5e.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    It's name recognition. My normal group which has been together almost 2 decades now tried out 4th Edition and didn't enjoy it very much, so we moved over to Pathfinder. The shear volume of modules and adventure paths for Pathfinder alone is a huge pro for using that system.

    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited August 31
    The 5e books gameplay section opens with a note about being sensitive to the feelings of your players, specifically highlighting a hypothetical player who might be triggered by harassment scenarios arising in game.

    I’m finding the “5e is written by crypto fascists” theory less and less convincing.

    Tube on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    The 5e books gameplay section opens with a note about being sensitive to the feelings of your players, specifically highlighting a hypothetical player who might be triggered by harassment scenarios arising in game.

    I’m finding the “5e is written by crypto fascists” theory less and less convincing.

    Wasn't it more "5e is pandering to crypto fascists"?

  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Well that's still wrong, too, but no, you specifically called out the views of the people working on it as a problem.
    Oh wow. There's some shit in there I didn't even have a clue about. While the framing could ultimately just be one of opinion, the hiring and retaining of several actively shitty individuals absolutely is not. I was already out on the new White-Wolf's stuff just based on what they had talked about (some of which is represented in the "edgelord" stuff), but good lord that doesn't paint a pretty picture of the overall direction of the company.

    Emphasis mine. But I do look forward to you all trying to walk back the insane ramblings from two pages ago.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Never do what your enemy expects you to do! Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Well that's still wrong, too, but no, you specifically called out the views of the people working on it as a problem.
    Oh wow. There's some shit in there I didn't even have a clue about. While the framing could ultimately just be one of opinion, the hiring and retaining of several actively shitty individuals absolutely is not. I was already out on the new White-Wolf's stuff just based on what they had talked about (some of which is represented in the "edgelord" stuff), but good lord that doesn't paint a pretty picture of the overall direction of the company.

    Emphasis mine. But I do look forward to you all trying to walk back the insane ramblings from two pages ago.

    Don't really need to. Try rereading the post you quoted. I think you may have skipped an important bit in your haste to bolden that passage and misinterpreted what I was saying.

    And what 'insane ramblings' do you mean, specifically?

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Well that's still wrong, too, but no, you specifically called out the views of the people working on it as a problem.
    Oh wow. There's some shit in there I didn't even have a clue about. While the framing could ultimately just be one of opinion, the hiring and retaining of several actively shitty individuals absolutely is not. I was already out on the new White-Wolf's stuff just based on what they had talked about (some of which is represented in the "edgelord" stuff), but good lord that doesn't paint a pretty picture of the overall direction of the company.

    Emphasis mine. But I do look forward to you all trying to walk back the insane ramblings from two pages ago.

    There’s zero reason to be this hostile

  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Fair enough, I'm sorry. I guess I'm still annoyed by the dog pile before from those desperately seeking fascists to oppose.

    There's a strong urge to bask in the vindication.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I mean I’m only twenty pages in

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    It has details for running a Sabbat campaign, doesn't it?

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • ArdentArdent Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It has details for running a Sabbat campaign, doesn't it?
    Not that I noticed. At any rate, there will HAVE to be a supplement to actually run a Sabbat campaign for reasons.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    Ardent wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It has details for running a Sabbat campaign, doesn't it?
    Not that I noticed. At any rate, there will HAVE to be a supplement to actually run a Sabbat campaign for reasons.

    I'd like to do that at some point. Seems like interest is higher for VTM here than Mage.

    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Yea but no ETA on the Sabbat supplement, the Camarilla and Anarch ones are soon

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