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[D&D 5E] Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

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Posts

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    It can be the case but if it is the case then we aren’t at “monsters at one end players at the other” because only one player will be in the room.

    And it otherwise matters very much. Its exceedingly rare that a party does not exceed 90 range.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    CR absolutely doesn't work when talking about anything over CR 1 against players that are lower than level 3

    It feels like it works "Best" in the midgame, off the top of my head probably levels 7 to 13? At that level range, nothing is killing any players instantly, giving the DM a lot of leeway with encounters, giving players a chance to flee if they flub the curve, or get taken prisoner, etc

    Nothing is really balanced against a group of players as a solo "boss" until legendary actions come into play at higher levels and that's a perfectly valid criticism, requiring us as DMs to work around that. Again I can point to official material, throwing the boss Klarg against the players in LMOP - he's a bugbear with a few goblins against what is probably a level 2 party - and the CR system doesn't really do much to help you out here

    override367 on
  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    I mean, i guess one could say there's only one optimal way to do things

    but like... for example last night in the game I'm running the druid turned into a fish and led a hydra on a chase before jumping out of the water over the head of a yuan-ti, leading to the hydra attacking its handler by mistake

    I'm not sure where that action fits into the optimal action table?

    Our warlock used Create Water on a couple of blights last session and spent a few rounds dancing with them, effectively locking them down for a while.

    Me elsewhere:
    Steam, various fora: Ivellius
    League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
    Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Combat encounter building works pretty damn well in 4e, since movement powers and status change powers are baked into the game as a default assumption.

    13th Age worked pretty well too from what I can remember, and having the escalation die really helps clean things up. Genesys seems decent, but I don't have enough experience with it yet to make a final call.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Abbalah wrote: »

    Right, but if the goal is to cast a spell that just lets someone else live long enough to cast an offensive spell that will actually impact the encounter

    then like...you could just cast an offensive spell yourself instead, and that does the same thing but saves the party a spell slot since you're not spending a spell to get a spell, and probably also lets the wizard live an extra turn by downing the enemy that would have attacked him.

    Clerics do not get fireball. (And in general do not get powerful burst damage/control spells). Yes in most cases the cleric should not be healing and should instead be acting(because they hit half decently hard with cantrips and with melee attacks and they have decent armor and HP making them half-tanks compared to wizards). But even then there are combat situations (and initiative structures) that will make these spells valuable both for bringing people up and also for preventing them from going down.

    For instance if its Enemy, Wizard, Cleric then if you want your wizard to act you better heal him before his turn if he might go down (or you better be good with maybe losing a readied action). And if its enemy, cleric, wizard then you're fine with spot healing as necessary when the wizard goes down.

    But yes. It does not appear to be a problem that healing has more specific rather than general uses. The game does not appear to want a situation in which players fight fluctuating HP bars.

    Now if you want that kind of thing you're going to have to change the game. But that isn't a problem with the game just as it isn't a problem with V:tM that it doesn't play Epic Fantasy well or CoC doesn't do modern train management well.

    1) Light Clerics actually do get Fireball so that's neat.

    2) My problem I often see with a lot of arguments is "Healing magic isn't supposed to be as strong as damage magic" but then when you bring up Healing Spirit it's "This is broken and should be officially changed!" Like ... the game literally introduced this spell. And it exists for people to use in an official sense, whether at tables or AL. But some people just lose their mind at the thought. Like people who say "things are this way for a reason" and then say "Well except this one. I hate this one so I want it change" just kind of sucks for me as a fan of it.

    But I guess I'm just arguing over nothing. It exists and it's not being taken back so I guess it's all awesome. I can wish other people didn't have a problem with it but at the end of the day I already get what I want with it existing so ... <shrug>

  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    I like Healing Spirit. I think it's an answer to healing spells otherwise being a weak option, and it makes the caster feel very powerful which is always a plus for me. I like my players to feel like their PCs are badasses.

    That being said, I can recognize that from a pure balance perspective, outside of my own personal preference and the way I run my games, it might have some issues. It is potentially a lot of healing and 5E does have a history of messing up their numbers.

    Denada on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Healing spirit is a problem because it levels up hilariously. At a level 2 cast it’s not really an issue as it competes directly and reasonably with comparable spells that comepeting healers get for out of combat healing. (PoH heals 52 SH 35. It’s at lvl 4+ thinks get ridiculousness

    It is possible for there to be intra-spell balance issues while also there not being a problem with other intra-spell balance.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    I mean I'll just say that Druids are kinda outright broken. They kinda do everything better than everyone as a baseline and then get a chance to focus on a broad aspect that they will absolutely dominate the table on.

    Healing spirit on rangers? Not that bad

    Healing spirit on druids? Kinda broken, but no more broken than the rest of druid, the most broken part being that they don't need any kind of investment to just heal better than everyone.

    Sleep on
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Healing spirit is a problem because it levels up hilariously. At a level 2 cast it’s not really an issue as it competes directly and reasonably with comparable spells that comepeting healers get for out of combat healing. (PoH heals 52 SH 35. It’s at lvl 4+ thinks get ridiculousness

    It is possible for there to be intra-spell balance issues while also there not being a problem with other intra-spell balance.

    Except it's also not a problem. See how this works?

    Also
    Sleep wrote: »
    I mean I'll just say that Druids are kinda outright broken. They kinda do everything better than everyone as a baseline and then get a chance to focus on a broad aspect that they will absolutely dominate the table on.

    Healing spirit on rangers? Not that bad

    Healing spirit on druids? Kinda broken, but no more broken than the rest of druid

    Level 2 Moon Druids can be kind of strong but that wanes after level 4 or so. Outside of that I guess I just think you're wrong but that's fine. We've been arguing this whole time about difference of opinions being presented as facts.

    Nyht on
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Double post

    Nyht on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Nyht wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Healing spirit is a problem because it levels up hilariously. At a level 2 cast it’s not really an issue as it competes directly and reasonably with comparable spells that comepeting healers get for out of combat healing. (PoH heals 52 SH 35. It’s at lvl 4+ thinks get ridiculousness

    It is possible for there to be intra-spell balance issues while also there not being a problem with other intra-spell balance.

    Except it's also not a problem. See how this works?

    No. I do not. You can’t “fake news” out of this; we aren’t having a political fight

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  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Nyht wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Healing spirit is a problem because it levels up hilariously. At a level 2 cast it’s not really an issue as it competes directly and reasonably with comparable spells that comepeting healers get for out of combat healing. (PoH heals 52 SH 35. It’s at lvl 4+ thinks get ridiculousness

    It is possible for there to be intra-spell balance issues while also there not being a problem with other intra-spell balance.

    Except it's also not a problem. See how this works?

    No. I do not. You can’t “fake news” out of this; we aren’t having a political fight

    I don't care what kind of fight you're having, it's stupid, uninteresting and full of intransigent asses. All of you need to find better uses of your time.

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited August 2018
    Also, if in the future anyone gets the bright idea to drag up a months old argument in the middle of your current argument please just fuck right off instead of posting it.

    A duck! on
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Nyht wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Healing spirit is a problem because it levels up hilariously. At a level 2 cast it’s not really an issue as it competes directly and reasonably with comparable spells that comepeting healers get for out of combat healing. (PoH heals 52 SH 35. It’s at lvl 4+ thinks get ridiculousness

    It is possible for there to be intra-spell balance issues while also there not being a problem with other intra-spell balance.

    Except it's also not a problem. See how this works?

    Also
    Sleep wrote: »
    I mean I'll just say that Druids are kinda outright broken. They kinda do everything better than everyone as a baseline and then get a chance to focus on a broad aspect that they will absolutely dominate the table on.

    Healing spirit on rangers? Not that bad

    Healing spirit on druids? Kinda broken, but no more broken than the rest of druid

    Level 2 Moon Druids can be kind of strong but that wanes after level 4 or so. Outside of that I guess I just think you're wrong but that's fine. We've been arguing this whole time about difference of opinions being presented as facts.

    The way in which druid hit points work makes the druid like the nastiest tank because they can constantly just not give a fuck about damage. Wild shape into a bear eat all its hit points, still have your full druid hit point pool... wild shape into the same bear form boom full bear hit points again. Even better: summon bears, bear form, eat through 4 bears worth of HP... bear form again.

    It's pretty fuckin strong as a combo

    Hell the circle of the moon can even self heal with a bonus action so you can keep that last wild shape running longer if you like.

    Sleep on
  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Sleep wrote: »
    Nyht wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Healing spirit is a problem because it levels up hilariously. At a level 2 cast it’s not really an issue as it competes directly and reasonably with comparable spells that comepeting healers get for out of combat healing. (PoH heals 52 SH 35. It’s at lvl 4+ thinks get ridiculousness

    It is possible for there to be intra-spell balance issues while also there not being a problem with other intra-spell balance.

    Except it's also not a problem. See how this works?

    Also
    Sleep wrote: »
    I mean I'll just say that Druids are kinda outright broken. They kinda do everything better than everyone as a baseline and then get a chance to focus on a broad aspect that they will absolutely dominate the table on.

    Healing spirit on rangers? Not that bad

    Healing spirit on druids? Kinda broken, but no more broken than the rest of druid

    Level 2 Moon Druids can be kind of strong but that wanes after level 4 or so. Outside of that I guess I just think you're wrong but that's fine. We've been arguing this whole time about difference of opinions being presented as facts.

    The way in which druid hit points work makes the druid like the nastiest tank because they can constantly just not give a fuck about damage. Wild shape into a bear eat all its hit points, still have your full druid hit point pool... wild shape into the same bear form boom full bear hit points again. Even better: summon bears, bear form, eat through 4 bears worth of HP... bear form again.

    It's pretty fuckin strong as a combo

    Druids can eventually wildshape infinitely while also popping in an out of form as a bonus action. This means that you can turn into a 124HP Mammoth as a bonus action, move and attack, switch back to Druid form on your next turn to move and cast a spell, and then go back to 124HP on the following turn. A monster literally has to do 125 damage a round to harm a druid.

    Luckily I've yet to have a player try that. Everyone always goes Circle for some reason.

    *edit: Also, the druid spell list is fucking boss. Entangle literally never stops being relevant; pick up Sharpshooter and start throwing Javelins with advantage at 120ft.

    Carnarvon on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Arthil wrote: »
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    Dude polar bear hitpoints ain't nothing to fuck with either. 42 isn't a ton but most creatures aren't going to clear that in a round and being able to run call lightning with a 16 con, war caster (because why the fuck wouldn't you), and, effectively a 42 hit point damage shield that gives you two attacks one of which is a greatsword ain't too shabby at any level.

    Like even I, in my reliable defenses of 5e, will say... druids put the donkey in redonkulous.

    Sleep on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Fortunately no one plays them because they hate the knowledge required

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  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    Dude polar bear hitpoints ain't nothing to fuck with either. 42 isn't a ton but most creatures aren't going to clear that in a round and being able to run call lightning with a 16 con, war caster (because why the fuck wouldn't you), and, effectively a 42 hit point damage shield that gives you two attacks one of which is a greatsword ain't too shabby at any level.

    Like even I, in my reliable defenses of 5e, will say... druids put the donkey in redonkulous.

    To be fair, this is probably the least powerful druid incarnation since what, ever? I don't remember them at 2nd or 4th, but AD&D druids got low level spellcasters as followers, which was pretty beastly.

    3.5 druids were basically unkillable combat monsters with access to a full spell list that put wizards and clerics to shame.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    Dude polar bear hitpoints ain't nothing to fuck with either. 42 isn't a ton but most creatures aren't going to clear that in a round and being able to run call lightning with a 16 con, war caster (because why the fuck wouldn't you), and, effectively a 42 hit point damage shield that gives you two attacks one of which is a greatsword ain't too shabby at any level.

    Like even I, in my reliable defenses of 5e, will say... druids put the donkey in redonkulous.

    To be fair, this is probably the least powerful druid incarnation since what, ever? I don't remember them at 2nd or 4th, but AD&D druids got low level spellcasters as followers, which was pretty beastly.

    3.5 druids were basically unkillable combat monsters with access to a full spell list that put wizards and clerics to shame.

    This is very true.

    Like the gap here, while identifiable, is definitely less than prior incarnations.

    Sleep on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    ~Top Designer’s Notes~
    Yeah, I’m just really bored. I’ll start adding to the conversation after this post.

    Temunitu Equipment

    Surfboard, 10 gp
    A large board designed to glide across the top of waves. Self propelled, the surfboarder must make use of the rolling sea rather than perceive it as a hindrance if they are to master this vehicle.
    Surfboards often have beautiful works of art across them, as per the request of the buyer.

    Across the surface of water, you have a swimming speed of 30 ft. while you stay on top of the surfboard.

    If you are proficient in the surfboard, you have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) and Charisma (Performance) checks to attempt surfing tricks.

    Hammock, x gp
    A hammock is a simple sheet of cloth to be tied across two points to create a makeshift bed. Price is no issue.

    Waterproofed Clothing, 8 gp
    Either by application of alchemical oils or woven from shark skin, waterproofed clothing is best for long sea journeys.


    Song Shell, x gp
    Seemingly fragile spiralling shell that is warm to touch, but on inspection, long empty. Origins unknown, it is thought that sirens whisper their secrets into the shells before throwing them into the deep. Sale of song shells is taboo; they are only to be found.

    Slam a song shell onto a hard surface and a melody will begin to play. Each tune is different, and so some are kept for festivals, funerals, weddings, while another might be played to help a child sleep.

    Sailor’s Pack, 16 gp
    Includes a backpack, a hammock, a mess kit, waterproofed clothing, 3 water torches, 10 days of rations, and a waterskin. The pack also has 50 feet of hempen rope strapped to the side of it.

    Tattooist’s tools & supplies, 5 gp & 3 gp
    Fine needles, specialist body inks of many shades, bundles of dabbing cloth and other intricate pieces of equipment for use to permanently mark others with art.

    Water Torch, 1 gp
    Ground luminous coral and the liquids of bioluminescent creatures held in a thick sea glass jar. It must be shaken up to use, and has a number of uses determined by its quality, with a minimum of 2 uses.

    A water torch burns for 1 hour, providing bright light in a 20 ft. radius and dim light for an additional 20 ft. If you make a melee attack with a water torch and hit, it deals 1 bludgeoning damage.
    Shattering a water torch covers a 20ft. area, including creatures therein, in bright light for 20 minutes.

    Mounts.
    Iguadile, 200 gp, 25 ft. 300 lb.
    Huge reptilian beasts of burden with sagging skin and scales hard as volcanic rock. Though slow to act, they are a staple in Temunitu society.

    Continuous Motion. An iguadile ignores the penalties of difficult terrain, harsh weather and can hold their breath for 1 hour.

    Obsidian Hide. An iguadile reduces 1d4 from bludgeoning and slashing damage.

    -use elephant stats, but maybe knock some hit points off-

    Payamaitanitu, 150 gp, 40ft., 80 lb.
    Their complex name means “the gift of the sea to the people”, and is shorted to payam by most. They are large, swift manta ray with skin speckled with glittering markings. The mount is never fully tamed, but may be befriended for a time.

    Starry Body. A payam can cast the light cantrip on itself once per day.

    Queen of Rays. Payam naturally attract groups of rays to them, who will swim with them for hours.

    -use reef shark stats maybe, look I hate stating monsters and NPCs in this game-

    Dodolope, 80 gp, 45 ft., 100 lb.
    Besides Payams, the most common mount of the islands. Saved from extinction on some distant shore, they owe everything to their masters, though they’ll never know it. Dodolopes are large flightless birds as fearless as they are stupid. Their plumage comes in a variety of colours, and Teminitu riders always hope to acquire just the right one.

    Bird Brain. A dodolope has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, and is immune to the frightened condition.

    Raptor Bolt. Without a rider, a dodolope can make the Dash action as a bonus action every turn.

    -use pony stats or something-

    Pet/Companion
    Shintima, 60–245 gp
    A rat, to the untrained eye, the shintima share their lives with Temunitu as dogs have with humans. Likewise there are many breeds, the serene woodsplint, agile rivertail, the vigilant deckhand, to name but three. Their notable features include moustache-like whiskers and ability to mimic, and perhaps mock, the body language of intelligent races.

    Living Charm. A shintima grants a +1 bonus to initiative while it is on an ally’s person.

    Smart Animal. A shintima can understand up to two languages. Usually temunitu and common. It may attempt to warn an ally about something it has overheard, but cannot speak, only gesture.

    -use rat stats-

    Endless_Serpents on
  • KasynKasyn I'm not saying I don't like our chances. She called me the master.Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Druids are pretty fucking strong in this edition. Our resident powergamer went one in a previous campaign, and it's fairly shocking at times.

    But without Druids being as strong as they are, I would never have been able to live the dream of riding up the spine of a Tyrannosaurus Rex in a stolen jet bike, hauling the gang leader we were being hunted by for several sessions in one hand, only to ditch it mid-air off the top and choke slam the baddie from height. While tearing through outer space.

    Our low fantasy campaign took a several month turn into spacepunk valkyrie town, don't ask.

    Kasyn on
  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    I disagree on the "OP" view on the druid but it also won't matter as we're never going to agree and I have no interest in talking past one another. So I'm out on the topic of that and Healing Spirit as I probably never should have brought it up here (still not as unpleasant to talk about here as reddit though).

    So moving on from that, we played D&D again last Saturday.

    Highlights include;

    The group finds an ancient artifact, a small twig to the world tree, that they can use to stop the blight. However what took them little over an hour to complete in their minds had actually been 2 months so they have some catching up to do.

    The party found out finally that the Human Oath of Ancients Paladin is actually a Lizardfolk who had a ring that made him appear human to avoid being prejudiced against. Their reactions were pretty hilarious and quite prejudiced indeed.

    The Human Druid who was taken by the fae (fey) when she was younger eventually received a bombshell about some of her missing memories; she was the Queen of a Fourth faction of fae (Seelie, Unseelie, and Dreaming being our primary three), and the last thing she heard before the session ended is that she's also a Kingslayer ...

    The Gunslinger's father during the down time apparently kicked something of a hornet's nest and went looking for his daughter (who was in a pocket plane for 2 months) and tried to warn her danger could be coming. She'll find out soon that he finally hunted down the cause of her mother's death and "dealt" with it, but there's some mighty blowback for it's cost.

    Lastly, the Mermaid Mystic has befriended a unicorn and is ready to die happy.

    Nyht on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Those last two posts are what I’m here for. Consider this a +3 awesome for the pair of you.

  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    Oh and here's the battle map for their foray into the pocket realm! Followed Black Magic Craft to make some shoddy but workable trees and bases (making more still) and my wife watched a video to make the Druid Gate that's also depicted. And of course, though you can't see it in the picture well, this foam landscape I made so it DOES have grids on it. They just blend in very nicely it seems! (Also pictured is my obviously captivated daughter. Look at how interested she is! ... >_> )
    38425835_10155707186703441_3383326741865955328_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=3b484c2d0bb6f7451e8f16129346c977&oe=5BFAAB1D

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    Dude polar bear hitpoints ain't nothing to fuck with either. 42 isn't a ton but most creatures aren't going to clear that in a round and being able to run call lightning with a 16 con, war caster (because why the fuck wouldn't you), and, effectively a 42 hit point damage shield that gives you two attacks one of which is a greatsword ain't too shabby at any level.

    Like even I, in my reliable defenses of 5e, will say... druids put the donkey in redonkulous.

    To be fair, this is probably the least powerful druid incarnation since what, ever? I don't remember them at 2nd or 4th, but AD&D druids got low level spellcasters as followers, which was pretty beastly.

    3.5 druids were basically unkillable combat monsters with access to a full spell list that put wizards and clerics to shame.

    Small note, 3.x druids missed some pretty important spells on their lists, 3.0 more than 3.5. They had some really strong spells but, for example, had no way of shielding themselves against Death magic and effects. Granted, they could do most of the important stuff and had a few spells that were just flat out crazy in the right situation.

    3.0 Druids were really good if they knew a situation was coming up or just got lucky with spell selection. The flip side was it was easy to be utterly useless if you guessed wrong and had spells that did nothing in the current environment. In a way they were like ultra-wizards. Ultra-wizards who always had a bad ass pet to offset the whole squishy thing.

    3.5 Druids were a great example of game designers twisting too many knobs at once. They took that ultra-wizard spell list and then slathered spontaneous casting on top of it. Now in 3.0 that might have been alright as Summon's were bad and Summon Nature's Ally was especially bad. However at some point they "fixed" the summon lists and buffed SNA even more than Summon Monster. At the drop of a hat a druid could turn a highly situational spell for the wrong situation into a wall of hit points. If they were in that situation they could often just end an encounter with the spell instead. This removed a huge limitation from them. Additionally they messed with some class abilities, essentially deciding that druids should always have like +6 natural armor after 13th and I seem to recall they changed polymorph/shape change rules in a way that was a big boost as well. Druid's were a basic class that I had a real hard time justifying any Prestige class for. They were just that good.

    Druid's pre 3rd were, uh, odd. They were generally okay in what they could do with spells, combat and abilities and had a very generous XP chart early on but hit that whole "Hierarchical Structure" phase where leveling was an adventure in itself that involve murdering a fellow druid. Was weird.

    4th Druids were generally...okay? The controller version was alright though it took some finesse to get there and had a whole trap subclass. The Essentials version with the pet was....really boring to play. Mechanically it was fine-ish but oh boy does it make the Essentials Knight look like it has so many choices in play.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • Saint JusticeSaint Justice Mercenary Mah-vel Baybee!!!Registered User regular
    I play in a 5e game with friends on Sunday evenings and in our latest session my Bard cast Otto's Irresistible dance on an adult white dragon and the very next round the dragon's mate showed up and I caught frost breath x2 and failed both saves. I was K.O.'d immediately which dropped the spell. It's confirmed: White Dragons can't dance.

    Some people play tennis, I erode the human soul. ~ Tycho
  • joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    Lost Mine of Phandelver has hooks for Princes of the Apocalypse and Tyranny of Dragons. Apparently people also use it instead of the beginning of Storm King's Thunder.

    Anyone link these together? I really like the idea that my DM duties are going to be just tweaking for the next few months.

  • NyhtNyht Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    I play in a 5e game with friends on Sunday evenings and in our latest session my Bard cast Otto's Irresistible dance on an adult white dragon and the very next round the dragon's mate showed up and I caught frost breath x2 and failed both saves. I was K.O.'d immediately which dropped the spell. It's confirmed: White Dragons can't dance.

    If they don't dance then they are no friends of mine ...

    Nyht on
  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    Man, I have a fighter I want to play, but I am obsessive about each character having their own set of dice. I have most of the perfect set, but I can't find the d6 or d% of the blue and red Viking set that were given out at Free RPG Day this year. So close, but so far away!

  • FuselageFuselage Oosik Jumpship LoungeRegistered User regular
    JPants wrote: »
    i have never seen anyone run any tabletop game 100% right from the book

    As someone with little to no TTRPG experience who wants to play so bad I'm tempted to pick up the DM mantle, I'm not sure how else I would be expected to run my first game (system irrelevant).

    DMing is improv. Whether you're running an adventure from a published module or you wrote pages of your own ideas, at the end of the day it's improv with elements of storytelling because no matter what, your NPCs will have to react to the players in situations b.c you hadn't expected. I may get some disagreement about it being less storytelling than improv, but the story is a byproduct of the players and DM coming together and ducking an adventure six ways to Sunday.

    In games like D&D, DMing is guided improv because you know the players are acting according to a specific set of rules and constraints. So if your NPCs or stories act far outside those rules and the players notice, you may get pushback.

    I play 5e in all of my games, but when I DM I prefer Index Card RPG for some of the reasons people have listed as to why they don't want to buy a bunch of expensive books

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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    joshgotro wrote: »
    Lost Mine of Phandelver has hooks for Princes of the Apocalypse and Tyranny of Dragons. Apparently people also use it instead of the beginning of Storm King's Thunder.

    Anyone link these together? I really like the idea that my DM duties are going to be just tweaking for the next few months.

    My DM is tying lmop to skt soon. He hinted at a famous druid who wandered off... Not sure yet what that could mean.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Speaking of published modules, I have discovered something about myself and maybe this is a lesson newer DM's might take into consideration. When running a module, I get lazy as a DM and I don't like it. :)

    While running official modules, I take WAY LESS care in structuring the actual game session. I do a cursory glace ahead of what we're doing for today and maybe gather the stats for the enemies in one place so I'm not flipping around too much. And while usually that's enough sometimes I rely on the module too much for the flow of the adventure and sometimes I get caught off guard and its an awkward transition. This is something that usually never happens in other games when I'm the one creating the content and so its all rolling around in my head anyway. I am not Chris Perkins, so when something happens on page 14 of ToA I have no idea it will mean so much down the line on page 41.

    Examples:
    - During LMoP with my newbie "Dad's Group", in the Redbrand Hideout, we were happily blazing through when I caught that there should be no way the Thunderwave tossing, door smashing party of adventurers would actually catch Glasstaff in his room for a beatdown since his familiar was there keeping a lookout for him. Luckily, this was an easy fix and we had a merry chase through the hideout instead, catching him as he was pulling up his go-bag from the cistern. But, because I was lazy, it was almost missed and the lesson of "sometimes the Bad guys are smart and have a chance of getting away" would have been missed.

    Lesson Learned: Make you read ahead and understand the interactions between keyed encounters in an area. The familiar in the lab, acting as an early warning for the wizard mini-boss in the next room should not have caught me by surprise at the last minute. It worked out pretty good considering, but still. That part of the boss fight should have flowed much better.

    - With my main group, we ran only one session of ToA in which I relied far too much on the random tables for encounters and giving the players far too much free reign in choosing a guide, because I did not read ahead and properly plan the game session. The group had decision paralysis on picking a guide (and therefore a direction to go in the jungle) and once we were in the jungle it was a bogged down day of *roll* "Uh, from the safety of your canoe you see some gorilla's swinging through the jungle. Since they can't get at you they settle for flinging some poop your way"... *rolls again* "Oh. 3d6 Ghouls. OK. Gimme a minute here and let me pull the ghoul stats"... *rolls again* "Fuck me, I'm supposed to do this 3 times an adventuring day?"

    Lesson Learned: Narrow down the options given to players to better manage your prep (or lack thereof) and handle as much of the mechanics of random tables ahead of time to better streamline the game session. ToA's random tables are really good. Next session (coming up in early September, yay!) will have me pre-roll encounters from the tables during my prep time and then dropping them ready to go into the session as the need arrives rather than me rolling and scrambling while everyone is waiting on me to get my shit together.

  • CarnarvonCarnarvon Registered User regular
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    Dude polar bear hitpoints ain't nothing to fuck with either. 42 isn't a ton but most creatures aren't going to clear that in a round and being able to run call lightning with a 16 con, war caster (because why the fuck wouldn't you), and, effectively a 42 hit point damage shield that gives you two attacks one of which is a greatsword ain't too shabby at any level.

    Like even I, in my reliable defenses of 5e, will say... druids put the donkey in redonkulous.

    To be fair, this is probably the least powerful druid incarnation since what, ever? I don't remember them at 2nd or 4th, but AD&D druids got low level spellcasters as followers, which was pretty beastly.

    3.5 druids were basically unkillable combat monsters with access to a full spell list that put wizards and clerics to shame.

    Small note, 3.x druids missed some pretty important spells on their lists, 3.0 more than 3.5. They had some really strong spells but, for example, had no way of shielding themselves against Death magic and effects. Granted, they could do most of the important stuff and had a few spells that were just flat out crazy in the right situation.

    3.0 Druids were really good if they knew a situation was coming up or just got lucky with spell selection. The flip side was it was easy to be utterly useless if you guessed wrong and had spells that did nothing in the current environment. In a way they were like ultra-wizards. Ultra-wizards who always had a bad ass pet to offset the whole squishy thing.

    3.5 Druids were a great example of game designers twisting too many knobs at once. They took that ultra-wizard spell list and then slathered spontaneous casting on top of it. Now in 3.0 that might have been alright as Summon's were bad and Summon Nature's Ally was especially bad. However at some point they "fixed" the summon lists and buffed SNA even more than Summon Monster. At the drop of a hat a druid could turn a highly situational spell for the wrong situation into a wall of hit points. If they were in that situation they could often just end an encounter with the spell instead. This removed a huge limitation from them. Additionally they messed with some class abilities, essentially deciding that druids should always have like +6 natural armor after 13th and I seem to recall they changed polymorph/shape change rules in a way that was a big boost as well. Druid's were a basic class that I had a real hard time justifying any Prestige class for. They were just that good.

    Druid's pre 3rd were, uh, odd. They were generally okay in what they could do with spells, combat and abilities and had a very generous XP chart early on but hit that whole "Hierarchical Structure" phase where leveling was an adventure in itself that involve murdering a fellow druid. Was weird.

    4th Druids were generally...okay? The controller version was alright though it took some finesse to get there and had a whole trap subclass. The Essentials version with the pet was....really boring to play. Mechanically it was fine-ish but oh boy does it make the Essentials Knight look like it has so many choices in play.

    For anyone not versed in 3.5:

    The thing with Druids in 3.5 is that you were a full caster with access to a lot of high power wizard spells, which was broken enough in that edition, but you also had heals a-plenty. You then got a 3/4th BAB progression and medium armor proficiency (which is just as good as heavy armor, due to Mithril crafting materials). At this point you're basically an arguably better cleric than the cleric is. But wait, there's more!

    Then you get an animal companion! There's lots of options, but the best one is normally a velociraptor, which will generally deal more damage/have more hp/higher AC/move faster than your fighter at every level of the game. It also has the Pounce ability, which lets you make a full attack on a charge (basically doubling or tripling your damage output). But wait, there's more!

    Then you get wildshape! This lets you turn into a animal, which replaces your STR/DEX/CON with beefy animal ability scores, lets you keep your mental scores, gives you Pounce on most animals (again making you a better fighter than a fighter), and for whatever fucking reason it also heals you. But wait, there's more!

    At level six you get access to the Natural Spell feat! This means you can now cast spells in animal form, and never have to stop being an animal. Ever. For any reason. Did you roll 3's for your STR/DEX/CON? Just live out your life as a dire bear with 33STR. But wait, there's more!

    Summon Nature's Ally let's you replace any spell you have prepared with a summon spell! Did I mention that you can turn into a velociraptor while having a pet velociraptor? Now you can summon them, too! Need to fly somewhere? Who needs high level spell slots, just summon a hippogryph to carry you! Have your friends taken damage, but you don't want to waste spell slots on them? Summon a unicorn to cast heals for you!

    There's probably some other stuff I'm missing. Spells in 3.5 were crazy, especially because you could pump your save DCs way up into the high 20s, and most monsters had bad will saves.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    I've basically done my best to dissuade the players from having multiple druids in a single party (having multiple parties and games running makes that less of an issue) just because if there's too many of them they will bog down combat to an unfun degree.

    Narratively In my setting druids are rare less due to a lack of them existing and more due to their propensity for hermitage, and specific purpose. They are a function of the land they protect, and they often do so interdimensionally

    I pinned a bunch of druidic traditions (not specifically by circle or anything, but functionally as a source of their power) to the feywild, usually tending to some symbolic animal or plant population or natural resource on the feywild that are connected with magical constructs on the material plane that regulate some aspect of the natural world around them.

    For the druid in my newest game he tends the beehives connected to a particular forest (dudes a shepherd druid, and he's gunna summon so many bees). Literally helps along the pollination of the deciduous rainforest he lives in.

    Druids and monks represent the most high magic elements of the setting pre the first adventure. Their orders and enclaves are among the most insular and secretive because they have a deeper understanding of the world and its function than anyone else. They keep their secrets because while in knowledge of these truths they gain power and a greater understanding of the universe they also learn the weaknesses of the world around them, and sharing such secrets is dangerous. It is often the case that druids and monks of a region are working in concert to maintain the balance... even if they don't necessarily realize they are.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Carnarvon wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Arthil wrote: »
    Only a Circle of the Moon Druid can pull that off, is the thing. All other druids cap out at CR2 creatures.

    Dude polar bear hitpoints ain't nothing to fuck with either. 42 isn't a ton but most creatures aren't going to clear that in a round and being able to run call lightning with a 16 con, war caster (because why the fuck wouldn't you), and, effectively a 42 hit point damage shield that gives you two attacks one of which is a greatsword ain't too shabby at any level.

    Like even I, in my reliable defenses of 5e, will say... druids put the donkey in redonkulous.

    To be fair, this is probably the least powerful druid incarnation since what, ever? I don't remember them at 2nd or 4th, but AD&D druids got low level spellcasters as followers, which was pretty beastly.

    3.5 druids were basically unkillable combat monsters with access to a full spell list that put wizards and clerics to shame.

    Small note, 3.x druids missed some pretty important spells on their lists, 3.0 more than 3.5. They had some really strong spells but, for example, had no way of shielding themselves against Death magic and effects. Granted, they could do most of the important stuff and had a few spells that were just flat out crazy in the right situation.

    3.0 Druids were really good if they knew a situation was coming up or just got lucky with spell selection. The flip side was it was easy to be utterly useless if you guessed wrong and had spells that did nothing in the current environment. In a way they were like ultra-wizards. Ultra-wizards who always had a bad ass pet to offset the whole squishy thing.

    3.5 Druids were a great example of game designers twisting too many knobs at once. They took that ultra-wizard spell list and then slathered spontaneous casting on top of it. Now in 3.0 that might have been alright as Summon's were bad and Summon Nature's Ally was especially bad. However at some point they "fixed" the summon lists and buffed SNA even more than Summon Monster. At the drop of a hat a druid could turn a highly situational spell for the wrong situation into a wall of hit points. If they were in that situation they could often just end an encounter with the spell instead. This removed a huge limitation from them. Additionally they messed with some class abilities, essentially deciding that druids should always have like +6 natural armor after 13th and I seem to recall they changed polymorph/shape change rules in a way that was a big boost as well. Druid's were a basic class that I had a real hard time justifying any Prestige class for. They were just that good.

    Druid's pre 3rd were, uh, odd. They were generally okay in what they could do with spells, combat and abilities and had a very generous XP chart early on but hit that whole "Hierarchical Structure" phase where leveling was an adventure in itself that involve murdering a fellow druid. Was weird.

    4th Druids were generally...okay? The controller version was alright though it took some finesse to get there and had a whole trap subclass. The Essentials version with the pet was....really boring to play. Mechanically it was fine-ish but oh boy does it make the Essentials Knight look like it has so many choices in play.

    For anyone not versed in 3.5:

    The thing with Druids in 3.5 is that you were a full caster with access to a lot of high power wizard spells, which was broken enough in that edition, but you also had heals a-plenty. You then got a 3/4th BAB progression and medium armor proficiency (which is just as good as heavy armor, due to Mithril crafting materials). At this point you're basically an arguably better cleric than the cleric is. But wait, there's more!

    Then you get an animal companion! There's lots of options, but the best one is normally a velociraptor, which will generally deal more damage/have more hp/higher AC/move faster than your fighter at every level of the game. It also has the Pounce ability, which lets you make a full attack on a charge (basically doubling or tripling your damage output). But wait, there's more!

    Then you get wildshape! This lets you turn into a animal, which replaces your STR/DEX/CON with beefy animal ability scores, lets you keep your mental scores, gives you Pounce on most animals (again making you a better fighter than a fighter), and for whatever fucking reason it also heals you. But wait, there's more!

    At level six you get access to the Natural Spell feat! This means you can now cast spells in animal form, and never have to stop being an animal. Ever. For any reason. Did you roll 3's for your STR/DEX/CON? Just live out your life as a dire bear with 33STR. But wait, there's more!

    Summon Nature's Ally let's you replace any spell you have prepared with a summon spell! Did I mention that you can turn into a velociraptor while having a pet velociraptor? Now you can summon them, too! Need to fly somewhere? Who needs high level spell slots, just summon a hippogryph to carry you! Have your friends taken damage, but you don't want to waste spell slots on them? Summon a unicorn to cast heals for you!

    There's probably some other stuff I'm missing. Spells in 3.5 were crazy, especially because you could pump your save DCs way up into the high 20s, and most monsters had bad will saves.

    Generally you're slightly overestimating the value of Pounce IME and didn't mention Grapple at all. It isn't hard for a PC druid to completely shut down an equal CR NPC villain by turning into a bear and hugging him. If they're a squishy they probably can't win the grapple check and if they're a fighter, well they're now doing unarmed damage or spending most of the turn trying to undo the status you just gave them. That doesn't end well if anybody else is around, like your party. I do lean towards disable and let my minions (i.e. Fighters, non-druids) deal damage style though.

    Also they don't get that many high level wizard-esque spells. They can pretend a fair amount with Summon Nature's Ally have a few fey in the list and some of the druid spells are primo. I'm looking at you Sunburst/Sunbeam. Of course, the ONE high level wizard spell is the only one that ever fucking matters: Shapechange. Sure, you can already become a Treant but how about a Pit Fiend or Balor or Solar? They're cool, right? Through the wonder of Share Spell, why only bring one Pit Fiend to the fight when instead you can bring TWO Pit Fiends? They're all good Pit Fiends Brent.

    Edit: Re: Grapple: A 15th level Druid who turns into a Treant Grapples as if they were a 20th level fighter with 28 Strength. A 8th level druid grapples at +18 or a 12th level 22 strength fighter. Those are both with zero investment on the Druid's part. No feats or anything, just turning into a bad ass combat form that incidentally likes giving hugs.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    Yeah, but all Grapple does is reduce a character's movement to 0ft. Can be useful, but trying to grapple someone that likes to attack in melee anyway is usually a mistake :D

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I feel like you could rip Druid in half and rebuild a Nagual/Skinwalker/Shaman class and a Witch/Pagan Priest/Dryad class from the remains and they’d both still be pretty good compared to Fighter.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yeah, but all Grapple does is reduce a character's movement to 0ft. Can be useful, but trying to grapple someone that likes to attack in melee anyway is usually a mistake :D

    In 3rd they can't use a weapon unless it's light and even those take a -4 attack. Shuts down a lot of fighters though some of them have a chance of getting out because of BAB/Strength. Spells are out if they have any somatic components at all.

    5th made grappling way less painful which is probably a good thing all in all.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Last week the druid decided to Awaken a mushroom they found. Awaken gives a beast or plant, with Int less than 3, tan intelligence of 10 and the ability to speak and such.

    My current players are a paladin/bard, a sorcerer, a monk/rogue, and a Druid. Nothing int-based.

    The mushroom is now the smartest member of the party. That his maker managed to crit fail a produce flame attack and set his pants on fire didn't help things.

    We now have a mushroom NPC in the depths of an existential crisis because he has seen his god and his god is dumb.

    Narbus on
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