You know, it feels weird finally seeing the full Battle, after doing it tons of times in beta when it was unfinished and without cutscenes.
I know there's references at the start where you're getting ready to head out to Kul'tiras where Jaina was talking about preparing her flagship, but I was just expecting it to be a normal boat. Now we've seen it, and OF COURSE IT WOULD BE THAT.
Does this actually happen? I don't play Alliance side so I haven't experienced this, but if this is hinted at on the Alliance side, I'd feel somewhat mollified about what happens during the scenario itself. I haven't read anything about this though in summaries of the Alliance side experience.
Generally, the Alliance side of this scenario sounds a lot less aggravating than the Horde side of it. You're overcoming things rather than being made irrelevant. Though that still happens a bit in that you continually have to be "saved." (But this is also fairly common in WoW generally.)
K. Things I would change to make the Battle for Lordaeron scenario better:
It's not Anduin who destroys the azerite war machine. In cinematic mode, more Alliance reinforcements come over the horizon, drive the Horde back, they overwhelm the machine while Anduin does some holy priest healing stuff. Sprinkle in some comments earlier in the scenario about how the Horde are hopelessly outnumbered to lampshade it a bit, because their forces are still tied up in Darkshore and Silithus (neatly wrapping up another complaint/question that's been made). Give us a little bit to see what the azerite war machine actually does, maybe show us the goblin pilot inside being blown away to safety with a parachute when the machine is destroyed. Follow up with a questline involving that goblin pilot later, maybe.
Tell us what this stupid blight is. Make it a whole big deal between Saurfang and Sylvanas. Saurfang's appalled because... something. Maybe this happens at the start, or maybe it happens later (see below).
Jaina's arrival was always planned. She was Anduin's way of breaching the walls. Give her a whole retinue of mages with her to mollify those who are complaining about her power level.
It's Genn who recklessly takes the Alliance forces right into Lordaeron, right into Sylvanas' trap. Anduin's not an idiot. The Genn-Sylvanas rivalry is still potent.
It's not Alleria teleporting in who saves Genn et co.. It's a Night Elf/Gnomish air force that Anduin had been holding in reserve. Genn's recklessness forces Anduin to commit them earlier than he wanted, which then explains later on why the Horde leaders can just fly away in their airship without hassle, because it's all Genn's fault.
Saurfang doesn't just walk away from the Horde to commit honorable seppuku-by-Alliance. He learns that Sylvanas is planning to bomb the whole city with blight, he's opposed to it, they argue, he says it's dishonorable and cowardly, she says there's no honor in death and the same afterlife waits for them all (hint at her death experience), he says he'd rather die, so Sylvanas assigns him some suicidal delay task. Saurfang does it because he's honorable and loyal to his Warchief until the end. Sylvanas isn't just throwing away an asset - which would be very un-Sylvanas-like - but she is hoping to get rid of a potential enemy (referenced earlier in the novellas) and getting something else done, a two-in-one deal for a crafty resourceful character.
And, following from the above, extra-important for how Saurfang seems to play into the broader narrative: he's not just giving up on the Horde because he doesn't like Sylvanas. That's not the Horde way. The Horde is about resilience. Thrall endures and escapes the Orcish internment camps, learns about all the Frostwolves who have died and promises to rebuild them, witnesses the death of Taretha, but he perseveres. The Darkspears are a fading splinter tribe of a race that's been hunted and eradicated all over by the humans and the High Elves. The Tauren are being wiped out by the centaurs, but are rescued by Thrall, and pledge to continue their peaceful shamanic ways in Mulgore. The Blood Elves had their homeland invaded by the Scourge, lost their only mana source, have had to make horrible deals to keep surviving. Hell, even the Forsaken are people who were all literally killed and persevere in undeath, and the Goblins are refugees from Kezan's destruction.
The Horde is about getting knocked down, and then getting back up again. It's about looking at all the horrible things your people have done, and continuing on despite that. It's about knowing that some of the worst villains in Azeroth were Orcs and still striving to be better, honorable, whatever. It's about when your best friend drinks some demon blood, again, you don't just write him off, but you try to save his stupid ass. Cairne challenges Garrosh for leadership, and dies for it. Vol'jin survives an assassination attempt, escapes and leads a resistance to oppose Garrosh. You're telling me that Saurfang is supposed to be the true spiritual embodiment of the Horde now, after he just decides that Sylvanas and the rest of the Horde are apparently not his problem any more? Now is when he's going to give up? The guy who pledges to kill Garrosh should he ever turn evil?
I get the whole old soldier thing, but if - as I suspect - we're supposed to view Saurfang as a real counterpoint to Sylvanas' Horde, I don't know how much Horde players are supposed to empathize with a guy who's just giving up. It really diminishes the Old Soldier cinematic, which... if that's intended pending some plot twist to come, then sure, but I'm suspecting it's not.
hippofant on
+5
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
If I were the PR team at Blizz, I would be shitting a brick over what the writing team is doing. As mentioned earlier, the on the rails story telling didn't run into issues for most players because neither faction was the big bad or the heroic faction, they both had their good and bad. Players got to play mostly the hero. I don't think aspects of MoP weren't well received because players were forced to be bad guys. The thing is with how the game had been presented, that was forcing players to play their characters in situations where the characters didn't behave as they should. Most people rolled the hero that was misunderstood by the asshole bigots, they didn't roll an asshole villain.
Actually, if they try the whole making one faction evil, I really do see that putting them in a legal gray area. Players would be able to legitimately argue that Blizz had deceived them after they spend years and hundreds of dollars on the game before getting told they didn't get what they paid for. Now whether anyone tries it in court and whether the courts agree this is bait in switch is another thing. It is fucking terrible for their credibility, how can their customers trust them to not dick them over and pick a story that pretty much ruins the game because the writers are lazy. There just isn't a good pay off for going this route and it shows that the company doesn't have a good leadership either. The moment the writers proposed what we know, the leadership of the company should have shit canned it on the spot and told the writers to do a better job and fucking remember that it's too late to turn a faction into the evil faction and they can't exactly fuck over a faction either (it does annoy me that the ally dailies seem a touch easier than the horse ones, with having to kill less shit in dark shore). Hell, the game did just fine for over a decade without an evil player faction.
The thing that pisses me off the most about this story direction. Is that the writers pissed away a golden opportunity to shake up the the dynamics in Azeroth because they are fucking lazy and stupid. Fuck the Horde vs Alliance conflict and the hard on that some have for faction vs faction nonsense. Order halls created a scenario where members of each faction worked with one another to tackle an issue their faction failed at. It was where they became leaders of a multinational faction. A more interesting story hook would have been having people from those order halls going back home and really criticizing how backwards it to continue the Alliance vs Horde conflict, while getting push back from elements within their own faction that feel an end to the conflict is a threat to their way of life or are unable to forgive and move on. So rather than a battle between the two factions, it ends up being tons of small skirmishes and power plays between people that want to reform things and those that want to continue the conflict. A literal battle for the heart and soul of each faction. Where some are pushing for a moving beyond the old conflicts that don't mesh with the current state of affairs, while others refuse to let go and forgive or are two invested in the old ways. Like we had the setup for an interesting direction to shake things up, but nope someone needed their fix of tired as evil red vs righteous blue drivel.
It's ridiculous to try and make any argument for this going to litigation of any sort. If people don't like a product, they can stop paying for it. If a six book series has a bad sixth book, people can't demand a lawsuit over their previous investments.
Anduin has been slowly turning into a Paladin for a while now. Using his father's sword to hack stuff up makes sense to me. Also
both sides have been gathering up azerrite. I'm not surprised the horde built a war machine that uses it, that's how they're able to be escalating in power now.
+3
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Actually, if they try the whole making one faction evil, I really do see that putting them in a legal gray area. Players would be able to legitimately argue that Blizz had deceived them after they spend years and hundreds of dollars on the game before getting told they didn't get what they paid for. Now whether anyone tries it in court and whether the courts agree this is bait in switch is another thing.
Nobody will, because you can't sure somebody for taking a creative work in a direction you don't like. If you could, Disney would be bankrupt from all the Last Jedi haters out there.
It is fucking terrible for their credibility, how can their customers trust them to not dick them over and pick a story that pretty much ruins the game because the writers are lazy.
This argument was also used in WoD, which still ended up being fun despite dumb writing in the setup, and MoP despite having a message that is completely at odds with the actual gameplay of WoW.
Hell, the game did just fine for over a decade without an evil player faction.
It remains to be seen if Battle for Azeroth is a sound investment or not. We'll have to see once their quarterly report gives their sub numbers to their shareholders after launch.
I don't like any of the lore we've seen since War of Thorns either. But maybe scale back the hyperbole a bit.
Battle for UC was a very good scenario, Horde Side.
Still wish the two city destructions had been switched. Tweak some writing in the final cinematic, and I wouldn't feel so icky. I was with Sylvanas with her argument with Sarufang with using the Blight. After all, desperate times call for desperate measures. But..... then she had to bring up Sarufang Jr.
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Thinking about this, with the Undercity destroyed and the Brill airship lines cut off... Alliance retaking Gilneas should be a given now, right? The armies in Silverpine are cut off from supplies, and the Alliance can pincer them.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Thinking about this, with the Undercity destroyed and the Brill airship lines cut off... Alliance retaking Gilneas should be a given now, right? The armies in Silverpine are cut off from supplies, and the Alliance can pincer them.
Anduin has been slowly turning into a Paladin for a while now. Using his father's sword to hack stuff up makes sense to me. Also
both sides have been gathering up azerrite. I'm not surprised the horde built a war machine that uses it, that's how they're able to be escalating in power now.
He's been taking that path for awhile now, and it pisses me off a bit, actually, because I thought he was a really good class representation in the game for priests. I also felt that him being a priest rather than a warrior or a paladin represented the possibility that a softer touch would be more suited for leadership in the long run.
Anduin has been slowly turning into a Paladin for a while now. Using his father's sword to hack stuff up makes sense to me. Also
both sides have been gathering up azerrite. I'm not surprised the horde built a war machine that uses it, that's how they're able to be escalating in power now.
He's been taking that path for awhile now, and it pisses me off a bit, actually, because I thought he was a really good class representation in the game for priests. I also felt that him being a priest rather than a warrior or a paladin represented the possibility that a softer touch would be more suited for leadership in the long run.
Holy paladins are basically armored priests right? I'm a priest and have enjoyed seeing Anduin get some spotlight as a priest, but also I have a paladin I love too so I could just be biased here. I don't want him to go full on Paladin and totally cast off the priest stuff, but I like that he's a neat hybrid kinda dude.
Speaking of Khadgar, whatever happened to his beard? Or was old Khadgar too unrelatable so they younged him up so he'd be popular with the kids these days?
There's even an old world herb named after him. "Khadgar's Wiskers." He doesn't even have whiskers anymore. But the plants remember. Oh yes. They remember.
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Speaking of Khadgar, whatever happened to his beard? Or was old Khadgar too unrelatable so they younged him up so he'd be popular with the kids these days?
There's even an old world herb named after him. "Khadgar's Wiskers." He doesn't even have whiskers anymore. But the plants remember. Oh yes. They remember.
Khadgar was young, then cursed to be ooold, then much later cured but wasn't really young anymore at that point. IIRC.
If I were the PR team at Blizz, I would be shitting a brick over what the writing team is doing. As mentioned earlier, the on the rails story telling didn't run into issues for most players because neither faction was the big bad or the heroic faction, they both had their good and bad. Players got to play mostly the hero. I don't think aspects of MoP weren't well received because players were forced to be bad guys. The thing is with how the game had been presented, that was forcing players to play their characters in situations where the characters didn't behave as they should. Most people rolled the hero that was misunderstood by the asshole bigots, they didn't roll an asshole villain.
Actually, if they try the whole making one faction evil, I really do see that putting them in a legal gray area. Players would be able to legitimately argue that Blizz had deceived them after they spend years and hundreds of dollars on the game before getting told they didn't get what they paid for. Now whether anyone tries it in court and whether the courts agree this is bait in switch is another thing. It is fucking terrible for their credibility, how can their customers trust them to not dick them over and pick a story that pretty much ruins the game because the writers are lazy. There just isn't a good pay off for going this route and it shows that the company doesn't have a good leadership either. The moment the writers proposed what we know, the leadership of the company should have shit canned it on the spot and told the writers to do a better job and fucking remember that it's too late to turn a faction into the evil faction and they can't exactly fuck over a faction either (it does annoy me that the ally dailies seem a touch easier than the horse ones, with having to kill less shit in dark shore). Hell, the game did just fine for over a decade without an evil player faction.
The thing that pisses me off the most about this story direction. Is that the writers pissed away a golden opportunity to shake up the the dynamics in Azeroth because they are fucking lazy and stupid. Fuck the Horde vs Alliance conflict and the hard on that some have for faction vs faction nonsense. Order halls created a scenario where members of each faction worked with one another to tackle an issue their faction failed at. It was where they became leaders of a multinational faction. A more interesting story hook would have been having people from those order halls going back home and really criticizing how backwards it to continue the Alliance vs Horde conflict, while getting push back from elements within their own faction that feel an end to the conflict is a threat to their way of life or are unable to forgive and move on. So rather than a battle between the two factions, it ends up being tons of small skirmishes and power plays between people that want to reform things and those that want to continue the conflict. A literal battle for the heart and soul of each faction. Where some are pushing for a moving beyond the old conflicts that don't mesh with the current state of affairs, while others refuse to let go and forgive or are two invested in the old ways. Like we had the setup for an interesting direction to shake things up, but nope someone needed their fix of tired as evil red vs righteous blue drivel.
I have to say it feels really weird after legion to go through the bfa prepatch stuff with my troll druid.
Oh look it’s Malfurion, the guy whose life I saved. I worked a ton with him to help clear the corruption from the emerald nightmare.
Oh wait, why did someone just hit him with an axe? Oh now everything is on fire. This is going to be tough to explain at the next druid lodge meetings.
+2
cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
I would just like to say that I hate Dire Maul.
Leveling up this nightborne had actually been kind of fun until Dire Maul. Especially the courtyard with the pillars. I know that that dungeon was already a splinter of the old dungeon. But damn. That one needs to be split again.
I'm really liking this war-thing, initial rough spots and all, and the reassertion of the factions. To me this feels energizing in a way that the Khadgar magical-superfriends-bullshit never did so that can go back into its little box while we get to have some old school murder-fun. I do hope that Blizzard releases stats on how many of the players went for the blight gun option.
I'm really liking this war-thing, initial rough spots and all, and the reassertion of the factions. To me this feels energizing in a way that the Khadgar magical-superfriends-bullshit never did so that can go back into its little box while we get to have some old school murder-fun. I do hope that Blizzard releases stats on how many of the players went for the blight gun option.
I went for the blight gun only because killing things on my resto shaman takes so fucking long.
Leveling up this nightborne had actually been kind of fun until Dire Maul. Especially the courtyard with the pillars. I know that that dungeon was already a splinter of the old dungeon. But damn. That one needs to be split again.
Nah, they should instead fuse all those separate parts into one full dungeon that you do all at once. They should give you a special achievement when you complete it via the group finder that just dings you right to 60.
I'm confused about people asking about the blight. Isn't it just the blight that's been around since Wrathgate and was also used / referenced in Cataclysm?
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I'm confused about people asking about the blight. Isn't it just the blight that's been around since Wrathgate and was also used / referenced in Cataclysm?
Who knows really. The blight used at wrathgate destroyed even undead in a way that kept them from being resurrected. Sylvanas was clearly able to use her evil cutscene magic to resurrect the soldiers slain by this blight.
I'm not sure if I can send invites while people are offline or aren't my friend, but I know there's a way to generate a link similar to Discord in-game. I'll see if I can find that and maybe just post the link here.
Would anyone be interested in joining my super-official Alliance community that I set up that has 3 members?
It's not really a guild, it'd just be a fun way to chat with people and maybe organize grouping up.
Shmaybe.
What server are you on? I'm looking to join an Alliance guild with active players.
This is not a guild, it's a community. Communities are cross-server, they're a new thing Blizzard just made that is probably gonna be buggy as shit and hard to use for a bit.
It's basically just a chatroom for alliance players, I think.
I'm confused about people asking about the blight. Isn't it just the blight that's been around since Wrathgate and was also used / referenced in Cataclysm?
Who knows really. The blight used at wrathgate destroyed even undead in a way that kept them from being resurrected. Sylvanas was clearly able to use her evil cutscene magic to resurrect the soldiers slain by this blight.
She didn't resurrect them, she just animated their remains.
Don't we already have a cross faction community that @Javen setup? Not sure we need specific ones for factions but maybe I'm wrong?
If there's already one, I'll join that. I tried inviting a Horde friend of mine to my community and it wouldn't let me. I think Blizzard put some restrictions on it, I haven't been able to get cross-faction to work.
Posts
Does this actually happen? I don't play Alliance side so I haven't experienced this, but if this is hinted at on the Alliance side, I'd feel somewhat mollified about what happens during the scenario itself. I haven't read anything about this though in summaries of the Alliance side experience.
Generally, the Alliance side of this scenario sounds a lot less aggravating than the Horde side of it. You're overcoming things rather than being made irrelevant. Though that still happens a bit in that you continually have to be "saved." (But this is also fairly common in WoW generally.)
I think so too or he did the cartoony thing and hit someone with a secret arrow
And, following from the above, extra-important for how Saurfang seems to play into the broader narrative: he's not just giving up on the Horde because he doesn't like Sylvanas. That's not the Horde way. The Horde is about resilience. Thrall endures and escapes the Orcish internment camps, learns about all the Frostwolves who have died and promises to rebuild them, witnesses the death of Taretha, but he perseveres. The Darkspears are a fading splinter tribe of a race that's been hunted and eradicated all over by the humans and the High Elves. The Tauren are being wiped out by the centaurs, but are rescued by Thrall, and pledge to continue their peaceful shamanic ways in Mulgore. The Blood Elves had their homeland invaded by the Scourge, lost their only mana source, have had to make horrible deals to keep surviving. Hell, even the Forsaken are people who were all literally killed and persevere in undeath, and the Goblins are refugees from Kezan's destruction.
The Horde is about getting knocked down, and then getting back up again. It's about looking at all the horrible things your people have done, and continuing on despite that. It's about knowing that some of the worst villains in Azeroth were Orcs and still striving to be better, honorable, whatever. It's about when your best friend drinks some demon blood, again, you don't just write him off, but you try to save his stupid ass. Cairne challenges Garrosh for leadership, and dies for it. Vol'jin survives an assassination attempt, escapes and leads a resistance to oppose Garrosh. You're telling me that Saurfang is supposed to be the true spiritual embodiment of the Horde now, after he just decides that Sylvanas and the rest of the Horde are apparently not his problem any more? Now is when he's going to give up? The guy who pledges to kill Garrosh should he ever turn evil?
I get the whole old soldier thing, but if - as I suspect - we're supposed to view Saurfang as a real counterpoint to Sylvanas' Horde, I don't know how much Horde players are supposed to empathize with a guy who's just giving up. It really diminishes the Old Soldier cinematic, which... if that's intended pending some plot twist to come, then sure, but I'm suspecting it's not.
Nobody will, because you can't sure somebody for taking a creative work in a direction you don't like. If you could, Disney would be bankrupt from all the Last Jedi haters out there.
This argument was also used in WoD, which still ended up being fun despite dumb writing in the setup, and MoP despite having a message that is completely at odds with the actual gameplay of WoW.
It remains to be seen if Battle for Azeroth is a sound investment or not. We'll have to see once their quarterly report gives their sub numbers to their shareholders after launch.
I don't like any of the lore we've seen since War of Thorns either. But maybe scale back the hyperbole a bit.
Still wish the two city destructions had been switched. Tweak some writing in the final cinematic, and I wouldn't feel so icky. I was with Sylvanas with her argument with Sarufang with using the Blight. After all, desperate times call for desperate measures. But..... then she had to bring up Sarufang Jr.
Low Blow.
Kinda peeved at the lack of dwarves so far.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
no because that would require modeling a new city
He's been taking that path for awhile now, and it pisses me off a bit, actually, because I thought he was a really good class representation in the game for priests. I also felt that him being a priest rather than a warrior or a paladin represented the possibility that a softer touch would be more suited for leadership in the long run.
Holy paladins are basically armored priests right? I'm a priest and have enjoyed seeing Anduin get some spotlight as a priest, but also I have a paladin I love too so I could just be biased here. I don't want him to go full on Paladin and totally cast off the priest stuff, but I like that he's a neat hybrid kinda dude.
Is memes, not for taking too serious of.
There's even an old world herb named after him. "Khadgar's Wiskers." He doesn't even have whiskers anymore. But the plants remember. Oh yes. They remember.
The plot holes almost seem infinite.
Khadgar was young, then cursed to be ooold, then much later cured but wasn't really young anymore at that point. IIRC.
To be fair, you'll bump into them when trying to wade through the story even if you're trying to avoid them.
I have to say it feels really weird after legion to go through the bfa prepatch stuff with my troll druid.
Oh look it’s Malfurion, the guy whose life I saved. I worked a ton with him to help clear the corruption from the emerald nightmare.
Oh wait, why did someone just hit him with an axe? Oh now everything is on fire. This is going to be tough to explain at the next druid lodge meetings.
Leveling up this nightborne had actually been kind of fun until Dire Maul. Especially the courtyard with the pillars. I know that that dungeon was already a splinter of the old dungeon. But damn. That one needs to be split again.
It's not really a guild, it'd just be a fun way to chat with people and maybe organize grouping up.
Hi, yes, I'm Alliance.
I went for the blight gun only because killing things on my resto shaman takes so fucking long.
Nah, they should instead fuse all those separate parts into one full dungeon that you do all at once. They should give you a special achievement when you complete it via the group finder that just dings you right to 60.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Okay, when can *I* join that faction?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Who knows really. The blight used at wrathgate destroyed even undead in a way that kept them from being resurrected. Sylvanas was clearly able to use her evil cutscene magic to resurrect the soldiers slain by this blight.
Tracking arrow on the side of Jaina's boat bum bum bummmmmmm
Throw your character name and battle.net ID in this google sheet and I'll invite you later tonight when I get home: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19aovVK_Knq6fQoh92kDTaOBvS2rRXgXqXHtn-r3ZgwY/edit?usp=sharing
I'm not sure if I can send invites while people are offline or aren't my friend, but I know there's a way to generate a link similar to Discord in-game. I'll see if I can find that and maybe just post the link here.
Shmaybe.
What server are you on? I'm looking to join an Alliance guild with active players.
This is not a guild, it's a community. Communities are cross-server, they're a new thing Blizzard just made that is probably gonna be buggy as shit and hard to use for a bit.
It's basically just a chatroom for alliance players, I think.
She didn't resurrect them, she just animated their remains.
If there's already one, I'll join that. I tried inviting a Horde friend of mine to my community and it wouldn't let me. I think Blizzard put some restrictions on it, I haven't been able to get cross-faction to work.