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Landlord damages
Bucketman
Call meSkraggRegistered User regular
Call meSkraggRegistered User regular
Ok so, at the end of June my fiancee and I moved out of our apartment into a new, much better place. We live in Indiana and the law in our state is that the landlord has 45 days to return your security deposit and give you a list of damages. It has been just over 60 and they just got us the list of damages. I won't get into it but its absurd. Now there was no security deposit because we moved in during a "special" and didn't have to put one down. But they were still required to give us the damages within 45 days. I'm having a hard time figuring out if we still owe them or not. Google results seem to be only concerned with security deposits and I can't find anything conclusive.
Heres the laws for my state as I can find them:
So yeah, it SEEMS like that since they didn't get the information to us in 45 days they "constitutes agreement by the landlord that no damages are due"
but we also didn't have a security deposit because they were running a "special" with no deposit due. I'm not sure how this would shake out and wanted to try and get as much info as possible before going forward.
Thanks!
Heres the laws for my state as I can find them:
IC 32-31-3-12Return of deposits; deductions; liability
Sec. 12. (a) Upon termination of a rental agreement, a landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit minus any amount applied to:
(1) the payment of accrued rent;
(2) the amount of damages that the landlord has suffered or will reasonably suffer by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with law or the rental agreement; and
(3) unpaid utility or sewer charges that the tenant is obligated to pay under the rental agreement;
all as itemized by the landlord with the amount due in a written notice that is delivered to the tenant not more than forty-five (45) days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession. The landlord is not liable under this chapter until the tenant supplies the landlord in writing with a mailing address to which to deliver the notice and amount prescribed by this subsection. Unless otherwise agreed, a tenant is not entitled to apply a security deposit to rent.
(b) If a landlord fails to comply with subsection (a), a tenant may recover all of the security deposit due the tenant and reasonable attorney's fees.
(c) This section does not preclude the landlord or tenant from recovering other damages to which either is entitled.
(d) The owner of the dwelling unit at the time of the termination of the rental agreement is bound by this section.
[Pre-2002 Recodification Citation: 32-7-5-12.]
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.
I am wondering if the "other damages" means previous damages discussed, or would mean damages not covered by the security deposit.
IC 32-31-3-14Notice of damages; refund of remaining deposits
Sec. 14. Not more than forty-five (45) days after the termination of occupancy, a landlord shall mail to a tenant an itemized list of damages claimed for which the security deposit may be used under section 13 of this chapter. The list must set forth:
(1) the estimated cost of repair for each damaged item; and
(2) the amounts and lease on which the landlord intends to assess the tenant.
The landlord shall include with the list a check or money order for the difference between the damages claimed and the amount of the security deposit held by the landlord.
[Pre-2002 Recodification Citation: 32-7-5-14.]
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.
And
IC 32-31-3-15Remittance of full deposit
Sec. 15. Failure by a landlord to provide notice of damages under section 14 of this chapter constitutes agreement by the landlord that no damages are due, and the landlord must remit to the tenant immediately the full security deposit.
[Pre-2002 Recodification Citation: 32-7-5-15.]
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.
Sec. 12. (a) Upon termination of a rental agreement, a landlord shall return to the tenant the security deposit minus any amount applied to:
(1) the payment of accrued rent;
(2) the amount of damages that the landlord has suffered or will reasonably suffer by reason of the tenant's noncompliance with law or the rental agreement; and
(3) unpaid utility or sewer charges that the tenant is obligated to pay under the rental agreement;
all as itemized by the landlord with the amount due in a written notice that is delivered to the tenant not more than forty-five (45) days after termination of the rental agreement and delivery of possession. The landlord is not liable under this chapter until the tenant supplies the landlord in writing with a mailing address to which to deliver the notice and amount prescribed by this subsection. Unless otherwise agreed, a tenant is not entitled to apply a security deposit to rent.
(b) If a landlord fails to comply with subsection (a), a tenant may recover all of the security deposit due the tenant and reasonable attorney's fees.
(c) This section does not preclude the landlord or tenant from recovering other damages to which either is entitled.
(d) The owner of the dwelling unit at the time of the termination of the rental agreement is bound by this section.
[Pre-2002 Recodification Citation: 32-7-5-12.]
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.
I am wondering if the "other damages" means previous damages discussed, or would mean damages not covered by the security deposit.
IC 32-31-3-14Notice of damages; refund of remaining deposits
Sec. 14. Not more than forty-five (45) days after the termination of occupancy, a landlord shall mail to a tenant an itemized list of damages claimed for which the security deposit may be used under section 13 of this chapter. The list must set forth:
(1) the estimated cost of repair for each damaged item; and
(2) the amounts and lease on which the landlord intends to assess the tenant.
The landlord shall include with the list a check or money order for the difference between the damages claimed and the amount of the security deposit held by the landlord.
[Pre-2002 Recodification Citation: 32-7-5-14.]
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.
And
IC 32-31-3-15Remittance of full deposit
Sec. 15. Failure by a landlord to provide notice of damages under section 14 of this chapter constitutes agreement by the landlord that no damages are due, and the landlord must remit to the tenant immediately the full security deposit.
[Pre-2002 Recodification Citation: 32-7-5-15.]
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.16.
So yeah, it SEEMS like that since they didn't get the information to us in 45 days they "constitutes agreement by the landlord that no damages are due"
but we also didn't have a security deposit because they were running a "special" with no deposit due. I'm not sure how this would shake out and wanted to try and get as much info as possible before going forward.
Thanks!
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Did you do a damage inspection when you moved in? If you have your own list (I always take photographs) which overlaps in any way with theirs, that's another weapon in your back pocket, though frankly I doubt you'll need it.
Yes, it makes no mention of this at all except that they would bill us for damages
Yeah we did a walk through when we moved in. Their not actually dinging us for anything except the carpets...but its like $555 for "Carpet wear and tear/damage" and while I don't mind paying if I have to..well I don't think I legally have to.
Walls/Paint are similar in some (many/most?) locales.
If it's similar to the IL deposit rule, then it seems like the quoted section would only apply in the case the landlord was seeking to deduct damages from a security deposit. Due to the strict security deposit laws, most landlords don't require them anymore, going to non-refundable move-in fees (what it sounds like here), then bill later for damages. Not sure if there's any time limit in your lease or in IN law about sending an itemized bill, but it's probably somewhere in case law.
However the big thing is, at least in Illinois law, that landlords cannot charge for ordinary wear and tear. This is almost always spelled out in the lease too. Wear and tear covers a lot, big ones being wear and tear on carpet, and wear and tear on paint. Reread your lease on the damages portion and look for wear and tear provisions.
Second, contact your local county's bar association and ask if there's any landlord-tenant legal aide. In Cook County here there's a couple desks setup in a number of the courthouses dedicated to just helping out tenants with landlord problems, you might be able to find some similar resources in IN.
Normal wear and tear is not often defined.
Here is how HUD defines it.
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/HSG-06-01GHBGUID.PDF
In Maryland most of the time you are only on the hook for the depreciated value of the carpet, so if you've lived in a place for 5 years or the Landlord can't prove the carpet was changed and pristine before you moved in you are fine. Most landlords in Maryland don't even bother, where they get you is carpet pad replacement, and cleaning. Pretty much every place I've ever lived except 1 has hooked me with a move out cleaning fee. Even if I've had the place professionally cleaned.
In terms of the OP, I personally would put up enough fight so they think you are serious and then settle for 200 or 300 bucks so it doesn't end up on your credit report. Landlords are notorious for sending invoices then sending it to collections.
See thats what I thought but the wording in section 14 and 15 say they must provide a list for damages that the security deposit MAY be used for within 45 days.
I'm going to call the local law school tomorrow and see if I can get an appointment for this weekend to see them and maybe they, or the supervising attorney, can give some advice.
The wordage seems to indicate that if they don't provide the list within the 45 days (they didn't) then we don't owe, but I can't find any actual clarification on this. And the only big law firm in my area that does this and offers a free online consultation (I of course work when the majority of them are open and get off after they close), is the attorney for my former landlord.
I would maybe see if you can get a free consultation with an attorney and get their opinion, but I would send a dispute letter and dispute all damages based on the 45 day timeline and send it certified mail.