Fresh to Painting

ShiboeShiboe Registered User
edited January 2008 in Artist's Corner
I've confined myself to the doodle thread so far, but this is something I'd appreciate some advice on. It's my second time painting, but I enjoyed it, and would like to improve. Two things: I had 2 brushes, neither of which were smaller than 3/4th an inch, so details were hard to come by, and I didn't have any black, so the best I could do on things I wanted black, was dark blue or purple.

Any tips/critiques I could get would be much appreciated, both on this and brush painting in general, as I'm quite new to it. On thing I seemed to find, starting with very dark colors to work as a shadow, then painting upwards in color, gave an illusion of detail and depth. Is this pretty standard? I also need a lot of work with color theory...

Anyways:
paint01spt8.jpg

Larger version if anyone's curious:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3672/paint01las2.jpg

Reference (me hiking this summer):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2015/1805785112_db92a141ec_o.jpg

Shiboe on

Posts

  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I thought that was Chuck Norris at first.

    MKR on
  • Vertigo5Vertigo5 Registered User
    edited December 2007
    3 easy tips

    1. Farther = cooler, lighter, low contrast / Closer = warmer, darker, high contrast (Look how cool the mountains in the back are in your ref compared to your painting)
    2. Use complementary colors to mute some of your colors. Throw away your black. (Burnt Umber + Ultramarine makes a fine black)
    3. Find a crappy copier and make some black & white copies to see your value patterns. Correct values sell the illusion.

    Vertigo5 on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited December 2007
    Thank you sir. So what's bad about black? Obviously didn't use any here, but thought it would have been nice to have in a few places. And I'll mess around with the b/w value checking later today. =D

    Shiboe on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited January 2008
    God I hate it when people throw out the DON'T USE BLACK OMGJEEZ rule with no explanation as to why.

    The reason is that black, when mixed with whatever color, desaturates that color, bringing it into a more muted, gray tone, and more color-rich dark tones can be achieved by mixing other colors together instead.

    HOWEVER! Saying THROW AWAY YOUR BLACK as a BE ALL END ALL NO IFS ANDS OR BUTS IS FUCKING RETARDED! WHY?

    Well, for ONE thing, for the VAST majority of Western Painting History, black has been essential to painting technique. A good majority of the finished paintings from the renaissance up until impressionism were painted with a technique where the painting was first done in its entirety in black and white oil paint, allowed to dry, and then glazed over with light washes of color in order to finish it. I would say several hundred years of history should negate the idea of black being useless.

    This whole myth about 'don't use black' came about because Monet decided he wanted a more color-rich palette than was up until that point typical, and then a bunch of other artists decided to do the same. However, if you want desaturated darks, or you want a pure black out of the tube, there is absolutely no good reason whatsoever not to use black. It is a choice, not a law.

    I suppose I should say something about the actual painting rather than just going off about this random thing, but it is a random thing that really fucking annoys me. I might amend this post later with things more specific to the painting.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • ShiboeShiboe Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Thanks Bacon! Always appreciate your in depth crits and much appreciate any help I can get in improving as quickly as possible.

    And I do wish I had black, if only so the backpack didn't turn purple hehe.

    Shiboe on
  • anableanable Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That's not bad for only your second time painting. My first time...well, bad would be an understatement.

    Though I think you achieved the reflection effect well, I don't think the mountain would actually show up in the water at that angle/distance. I don't see it in your reference either.

    anable on
  • Vertigo5Vertigo5 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Black is a crutch, and for most painters learning to paint it is detrimental to their development. It is a valid suggestion. And to get all hissy over a hyperbole is just silly. Get over yourself Bacon.

    Vertigo5 on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited January 2008
    Your suggestion was not presented as hyperbole, and to somebody just starting out and has no prior basis to go on, one can not simply assume that it would be taken as such.

    And my argument is not so much with the suggestion itself- it is valid if his intentions actually happen to coincide with it- as it is with anyone giving any advice and asking the person in question to simply take it on faith that you are right, plain and simple. Advice does little good if the person getting it takes it with no idea why they are applying that advice.

    It reminds me of an urban legend that I heard awhile back- in some third world country, some well-intentioned first-world persons decided to try to give classes on contraceptives to the lower-class citizens to prevent the spread of STDs. They demonstrated how to put on a condom to them by putting a condom on a banana; well and good, except then the people the were trying to educate went and actually put a condom on a banana, then went and had unprotected sex. Oh sure it's fun to laugh at HA HA STUPID PEOPLE but with no actual explanation of what a condom actually does, there is no way they could know any better. Similarly, there is no way he could have known you were exaggerating or that you meant it as a suggestion and not a de facto law, so you risk the same sort of absurdity if he actually does take you on faith.

    It don't mean to rail on you specifically, but every single time I have heard the DON'T USE BLACK rule specifically, it is ALWAYS presented with no context or explanation, either because the person giving it is either too lazy to, or are simply repeating it because they heard it from somebody else that never explained it either, and never thought to question it. As such, hearing it over and over again, presented so matter-of-factly and so lazily really just gets my goddamned goat at this point. It's a pet peeve of mine and yes maybe I could be nicer about it, and if I am wasting everybody's time by overstating myself I am sorry.

    But yes, learning to mix with colors for darker tones is an essential skill that a painter should learn and breaking dependency from blacks to get darker tones is a good habit to get into, as it expands the color range of the painter and can prevent the painter from getting in the habit of mixing muddy, desaturated colors. Forcing someone to not use black to in order to acquire those skills is not, in itself, a bad idea. Forcing someone to not use black while having no idea WHY, however, is.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • Vertigo5Vertigo5 Registered User
    edited January 2008
    Oi, your'e hopeless. Carry on then. King of Your Sandbox.

    Vertigo5 on
  • anableanable Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Vertigo5 wrote: »
    Oi, your'e hopeless. Carry on then. King of Your Sandbox.

    I actually thought his response was pretty good by explaining his perspective and even apologizing for sounding like a dick earlier.

    Now let's get this thread back on track!

    anable on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Vertigo5 wrote: »
    Oi, your'e hopeless. Carry on then. King of Your Sandbox.

    Way to be a douche after someone replies even-handedly.

    Tam on
  • Chop LogicChop Logic Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Tam wrote: »
    Vertigo5 wrote: »
    Oi, your'e hopeless. Carry on then. King of Your Sandbox.

    Way to be a douche after someone replies even-handedly.

    Seriously.

    Shiboe, a lot of the problems in your painting don't seem to be problems that would be fixed by painting more, but problems that would be fixed by drawing more. How often do you draw from life? Do you have anything you can show us?

    Chop Logic on
  • NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Tam wrote: »
    Vertigo5 wrote: »
    Oi, your'e hopeless. Carry on then. King of Your Sandbox.

    Way to be a douche

    NotASenator on
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