Just regarding the lawyer, talking to a lawyer isn't the same as suing someone. The lawyer is a professional who helps people in your situation all the time. If you find a good, established one through word of mouth, he or she can give you an outsider's perspective and won't push you to do anything you don't want to do. In my work, at least, I really do act as a "counselor" in both the legal and ordinary senses. I spend a lot of time helping people sorting through and analyzing their own situations in a larger context.
Jumping in here to join all the other voices saying talk to a lawyer - custody and marital property laws are complex and vary state to state. I'm saying this as a paralegal who has worked exclusively in family law and CPS for the bulk of my career. For example, Texas does not have legal separation - you're married until the order is signed saying you're not, and that can affect your property. http://aaml.org/ - this website has family lawyers from all over the country. I cannot emphasize this enough: CONSULT WITH SOMEONE WHO DOES FAMILY LAW AS A BULK OF THEIR WORK. Lots of lawyers dabble in family law on the side and they mess stuff up all the time - it's a field that you REALLY need a lot of knowledge and experience in.
ANOTHER THING - if you aren't in therapy, GET INTO IT. Not couple's therapy, get yourself into individual therapy and start working on the emotional upheaval that's coming out of this, and also on your self-esteem. It will help you in the long run, no matter how this shakes out.
On top of everything else that's already been said as someone who had specific, work related panic attacks. Find a break in the day, 30 minutes, and take some *You* time. Find something to distract yourself with. Go for a run in the morning, watch a show, play a game, even drive on the freeway and listen to the radio.
When you're going through something that threats to just completely hijack how you thought life was going to go, it's important to unplug from the problem at hand from time to time. Make sure your son's taken care of, but remember to do the same thing for yourself.
I'm in Texas, so good to know. I guess the lawyer bit isn't wrong, even if its just to understand the process as I am honestly clueless.
When she got home I asked her what on Earth she was thinking with the delivery thing. Its even better because his workplace is another store in my company, that I have peers in, and that I could possibly oversee if I get through this and take the promotion versus staying in my current position. And was delivered to the customer service desk, with her name as the sender, addressed to him. As an additional background, we both worked at this store. Aside from the current peers at my level running the place I know probably half that location in one way or another, and they know me and my wife.
After giving her three chances to come clean about the being at the guy's house instead of the story, I called her out and she gave. What I got was that she didn't tell me because she knew I would get upset, he's her friend, and she's trying to help him. I went over that yes I would have been upset, but I wouldn't have felt lied to, or that I was a total idiot. She said she understood and that she was sorry. I asked her if she had anything else to tell me, she said no. I said if being with this person would make her happy she should just do it and go, and she said she just wanted to be herself, by herself, except for our son. Her words.
God help me, but I believe her and went along with it even though I know I'm being absurd. She said she was sorry for all of it and she knows how much this is hurting our family. I asked if knowing that was enough to get her to stop and she said it wasn't like that, whatever that means.
I'll be meeting with a lawyer in the next couple of days, even though I really don't want to.
I also went ahead and bought a bottle of my old, standby bourbon. I won't be drinking it when my son is around, but at this point I'm of the mind that if there was ever a good reason to drink, I'm living it.
Raynaga on
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Raynaga I know you are hurting but please please don’t open that bottle.
You don’t want to give her a justification for taking your son.
Right now she’s the one in the wrong. 100%.
Drinking solves nothing.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Raynaga I know you are hurting but please please don’t open that bottle.
You don’t want to give her a justification for taking your son.
Right now she’s the one in the wrong. 100%.
Drinking solves nothing.
Echo this, strongly. But if you're going to drink, at least don't drink alone; get a friend you can trust around, someone who can gently keep you from having too much, and grab your phone before you send a text or make a call you'll regret.
I'm in Texas, so good to know. I guess the lawyer bit isn't wrong, even if its just to understand the process as I am honestly clueless.
When she got home I asked her what on Earth she was thinking with the delivery thing. Its even better because his workplace is another store in my company, that I have peers in, and that I could possibly oversee if I get through this and take the promotion versus staying in my current position. And was delivered to the customer service desk, with her name as the sender, addressed to him. As an additional background, we both worked at this store. Aside from the current peers at my level running the place I know probably half that location in one way or another, and they know me and my wife.
After giving her three chances to come clean about the being at the guy's house instead of the story, I called her out and she gave. What I got was that she didn't tell me because she knew I would get upset, he's her friend, and she's trying to help him. I went over that yes I would have been upset, but I wouldn't have felt lied to, or that I was a total idiot. She said she understood and that she was sorry. I asked her if she had anything else to tell me, she said no. I said if being with this person would make her happy she should just do it and go, and she said she just wanted to be herself, by herself, except for our son. Her words.
God help me, but I believe her and went along with it even though I know I'm being absurd. She said she was sorry for all of it and she knows how much this is hurting our family. I asked if knowing that was enough to get her to stop and she said it wasn't like that, whatever that means.
I'll be meeting with a lawyer in the next couple of days, even though I really don't want to.
I also went ahead and bought a bottle of my old, standby bourbon. I won't be drinking it when my son is around, but at this point I'm of the mind that if there was ever a good reason to drink, I'm living it.
I'm gonna tell you something my ex's father told me while they were moving her out of our home. I had told him I was convinced she was cheating on me and his response was: "No one makes a jump like this without knowing they have somewhere soft to land."
Its complete bullshit that she just wants to be alone just to be alone. She wants to be alone so she can be available to be with this guy. I believed my wife at first as well. It makes sense you want to believe her. You are riding that line between the denial and anger stages of grief. Denial makes you want to believe her.
Don't drink, man. Drinking and going through the anger you are about to go through is a bad combination. Go be around your friends/family. Let them know whats happening so they know how much you really need help right now. It is literally impossible to go through this alone. Dealing with a divorce in many ways is even worse than dealing with a death. You need help and people around you to give that help just like you would if you were experiencing a death.
Reach out and get help from those that actually love and care about you. No one is equipped to go through this alone.
You gotta stop tracking her whereabouts. I know you think you need to know she is safe or what, but no good can ever come of that.
I've been down that road with an ex. You will never come out looking like the good guy if she finds out.
I really am sorry man, you need support from friends and family right now! Not obsessing over where she is. Take your son and stay at your parents with him for a few days. Remember what truly matters and that is him!
" I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
― John Quincy Adams
I already did. I haven't done it since I posted on the day she left town and I used it to to make sure things were in order and found out all the other stuff. That's the only thing letting me think my intentions were actually what I think they were.
Looks like I'll be seeing a lawyer Monday.
EDIT: Looks like its tomorrow afternoon, actually.
Seeing a lawyer tomorrow is an excellent first step. I would echo that it's important to try and see one who specialises in family law. When I was separating I had a specialist lawyer and they were invaluable. My ex did not and they ended up using the incorrect law, horribly losing a case and paying me a low 5-figure sum in costs.
I've actually registered specifically after seeing this thread, after failing to figure out my old login. I was struck by her vision of the future being her alone but with your son. I agree with others above that she is unlikely to be thinking that she'll be alone. However, it may give an indication of her thoughts about what things would look like if you guys separated, i.e. her having primary or sole custody of your son. You've stated above that she has a lousy relationship with her family and would be entirely incapable of maintaining herself in the area that you're presently living in. She may have the idea that you would move out and support her if you separated, at least for a time, which would inevitably impair your ability to have good quality time with your son.
My separation was rather abrupt and marked initially by my ex desperately trying to get me to leave the house. I declined and it would later transpire that her idea was probably for me to leave, her and the kids to remain and for me to support them for 15+ years and have very limited, if any time with them. This was as much as I could glean from legal letters and arguments and her behaviour as she became extremely angry when things did not go the way she wished them to. There were then allegations which had to be disproven, which took a great deal of time and emotional energy.
Your wife may have an idea in mind of what will happen if you separate and it would be unlikely to involve her placing herself into a precarious living or financial situation. This would be unlikely to be beneficial for you as well. You need to look after yourself and your son, first and foremost. You're in a place to think of his needs and you can only ensure them by not allowing you to end up in a vulnerable position. Only a lawyer can reliably advise you as to how.
If you do separate, please try to keep it amicable for the sake of your son, but that doesn't mean rolling over either. You can be fair and firm simultaneously. And don't drink alone, you don't want any potential for accusations later on. I don't think anyone would criticise you for meeting with a friend or family member for drink/s, but don't sink yourself to the bottom of a bottle. There's nothing good down there.
I just wanted to add something to this discussion.
Aside from everything else, you should be doing what is best for your child. Something that I did when I was getting a divorce was to take a parenting class. My lawyer suggested it, and told me that in many cases the wife can request it and the court will make you take it (WA state btw) so it would look good to a judge if I had already taken that step myself.
I really, REALLY did not want to go to a parenting class, but I am immensely grateful that I did. I actually learned a ton, and I am a better father for having done it. 100% would recommend that you look into it.
Best of luck!
“Think of me like Yoda, but instead of being little and green I wear suits and I'm awesome. I'm your bro—I'm Broda!”
I already did. I haven't done it since I posted on the day she left town and I used it to to make sure things were in order and found out all the other stuff. That's the only thing letting me think my intentions were actually what I think they were.
Looks like I'll be seeing a lawyer Monday.
EDIT: Looks like its tomorrow afternoon, actually.
Proud of you for taking steps here, man.
Next one: counselor. Don't wait. Your feelings are probably like twelve strings of Christmas lights that were all thrown into a box together. There's no way you're unpacking that shit alone without blood and expensive property damage, and bringing alcohol into the mix is only going to cause more pain. Find somebody that does it for a living, they're way better at it than you or anyone else you know and having two perspectives on the same situation makes it so much easier. Not only will they help you deal with the feelings of loss over your marriage, the betrayal, the promotion, etc, they will also help you figure out how to handle talking to your son about this, how to talk to people at work, family and friends, and what you should and should not talk about with your wife when you do talk to her.
I know your said your instinct is to shut down and not talk, but your best outlet for talking about your feelings is not an option here and you need that outlet now more than ever.
They do specialize in family law, so there's that. I'm not even really sure what the hell I'm supposed to talk to him about. I'm guessing they will?
Yes, they will have questions for you.
Basically you can start with "my wife wants to separate, and here's what's going on." Be very honest. The conversation will be privileged to some degree as you are a potential client. That means the attorney will not be able to repeat anything you've told them to anyone else unless you give permission.
It's also perfectly acceptable for you to ask detailed questions about how much they cost and how they will bill you.
If you're up to it maybe write some of your questions down before you go.
+11
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Yes. Write down any and all questions you might possibly have as you come up with them. When going to a specialist about something stressful, there's always that one thing you meant to ask but forgot. Writing everything down as you think of it helps.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Well, that was pretty much the worst meeting of my life.
If I take the promotion and end up getting placed more than 100 miles away, I get to see my son 45 days a year, and every other holiday.
If I don't take the promotion, or take it but get lucky and stay here, I pretty much get him a weekend or so on alternation.
She will get half my 401k. 20% of my salary. Basically automatic.
And this is with me having done nothing wrong.
For someone who supposedly loves me, but isn't IN love with me, this is a pretty life-destroying step.
All this is assuming we went boilerplate, mutual. Could go contested, but now I'm putting my son through mediations and restraining orders and all other kinds of nonsense. And I don't even want to get divorced from the woman in the first place.
I do have an understanding now of my situation, so that's good. It's just even worse than I thought.
That looks correct because Texas is a community property state. Did you talk about custody? There may be an argument about who is the more stable one in the marriage. Also, don't forget that half the 401k is if you earned all the money in there during your marriage. You can "trace" the money if you put some in before you got married. You in turn may also be entitled to half of her 401k. Might be easier to call it even. 20% of salary sounds like child support for one child, again a custody issue.
If you own your house, don't move out. You'll be on the hook for the mortgage AND the rent on your apartment/hotel during that time.
Custody is a big thing, and it sounds like your wife isn't very emotionally stable. Do you think you would be able to take better care of your child than your wife, given her issues? If so, you should argue for primary custody. It's not about being hurtful, it's about what's best for your child.
How old is your son? I'd been assuming he was in school, and had been for some time - but if he's only just started then moving seems less of an issue if you did have custody (and it sounds like she doesn't want it). Has he said anything or are they unaware of the whole thing?
If she wants to cut ties and start again, then doesn't seem like it be that hard to get custody of the kid, especially if you're still open to her visiting on occasions.
If you think she wants to start anew, childless and carefree - ask your lawyer how that changes things for you. Might be able to come up with something that fits you both (you and your son move, get the new job - she visits holidays + optional other weekends if she actually chooses. Cash in the 401K is irritating, but if that were the cost to move and keep your son - would you pay it?).
Sounds like you've had worst case scenario laid out, but your situation sounds weirder. Though obviously IANAL.
Why would you need a restraining order and a big fight to get more than one day a week custody? That doesn't make sense. I guess that's the deal your wife wants?
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
It looks like that’s what the lawyer told him. American family law is fucked for a number of reasons that are outside the purview of H/A though.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Why would you need a restraining order and a big fight to get more than one day a week custody? That doesn't make sense. I guess that's the deal your wife wants?
That's a worse case scenario probably.
If the lawyer that OP saw told him that was the only option, I'd be wary of that advice.
+14
MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Fight for primary custody. Unstable mother + new boyfriend fresh out of prison is basically a recipe for neglect and/or abuse. He more likely than not won't care for "someone else's kid" and she doesn't seem to care about anything other than her own infatuation.
+6
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Fight for primary custody. Unstable mother + new boyfriend fresh out of prison is basically a recipe for neglect and/or abuse. He more likely than not won't care for "someone else's kid" and she doesn't seem to care about anything other than her own infatuation.
No he is hooking up now because his partner went to prison. The guy is not just out of prison. I think? Yeesh.
edit: and the woman who went to prison was her best friend, who he told Ray's wife "someday" to be with.
On the plus side, maybe after all this is over you can make it big as a writer.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
+1
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
And get a second opinion. Consultations should be free, shop around a little. What you were told sounds pretty grim to assume off the bat.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Maybe it was just the way I read the post appointment lawyer update but the tone of it seems weird.
Second consultation is recommended.
You're doing the right thing. Keep breaking up this shit show into manageable chunks and chipping away at the things you can. Progress is progress, no matter what. It's for your happiness and your son's happiness.
Also, did you discuss the evidence you have of her cheating to your lawyer? In Texas that's a big thing, you won’t have to prove that sexual intercourse actually happened if you can show circumstantial evidence of the affair. I.E. the tracking of her phone showing she was at his house.
This could possibly totally negate the alimony and give you a much better chance of primary custody.
Also, did you discuss the evidence you have of her cheating to your lawyer? In Texas that's a big thing, you won’t have to prove that sexual intercourse actually happened if you can show circumstantial evidence of the affair. I.E. the tracking of her phone showing she was at his house.
This could possibly totally negate the alimony and give you a much better chance of primary custody.
That 20% is likely child support, not alimony. Most states I know peg first child at 20%. Not saying she couldn't or wouldn't try for alimony, but from his post, that's likely what they're talking about.
No alimony in Texas to the best of my knowledge, but there is something called "spousal support" if you've been married for something like 20 years or more and one spouse didn't work/put career on hold.
Not worst case, basically "If it's a standard, no contest divorce, as there is no legal separation in Texas, this is about what you'll be looking at."
Wife would get primary custody unless I contest it and put forth reasons why she shouldn't, with me getting every first, 5th, and 7th(?) Weekend with my son. If I move more than 100 miles away, that turns into 45 days during the summer. Yes, I could go down the road with the bi-polar disorder, erratic behavior, and the lies/unexplained activity with the former significant other. But that would be extremely hurtful, so I don't know about that.
20% of salary for child support. My 401k was started right after we married, so she would get half of that. She doesn't have one to those who brought that up - she has only been back at work about a year, and her current position doesn't offer that as a benefit.
All of that changes if she files and I don't agree due to the situation. At that point it starts the back and forth.
To the question regarding my son and school, he turns 6 in October and is in Kindergarten. So no, not talking High School.
The lawyer has been doing family law specifically for roughly 40 years and came recommended from several folks I know. He seemed very knowledgeable and walked me through every question I had with patience.
It was my step-father's birthday last night, so we went to dinner with them and my sister and her husband/kids. After initially saying my wife wasn't welcome, I spoke to the parents and got them to say she could come, and that they would behave. I didn't want my son worried about her not being there.
So she went with us, and for about two hours it was like everything was normal and nothing had happened. I have tried to picture that activity with me, my son, and NOT her and I just can't imagine it.
EDIT: When she came to the house to head to dinner, she was dirty and sweaty. I asked her what she had been doing, and she said she had been on a swing at a playground, alone, for the past several hours. She showed me blisters on her hands from where she had gripped the chains tightly and without pause for the two hours. She was dirty because when she jumped off after the two hours, her legs had gone numb from sitting in the swing for so long and when she landed the collapsed like a sack of potatoes in the dirt.
That doesn't sound normal to me? Like, at all? For reference on Friday's she gets out of work at noon. Our son gets out of school at 3:15. I picked him up from daycare at 5...
She acted like it was the most normal thing in the world, put bandaid on her fingers where the blisters were, and went to change and go to dinner.
You need to talk to a therapist and get a handle on the fact you're probably getting divorced.
Your desire to not hurt her feelings and just let things happen is going to get you 45 days a year with your son who will end up living with someone who has mental health issues and a boyfriend she committed infidelity with.
This was her decision, stop trying to protect her.
Edit: The above isn't to say you're doing something malicious or being stupid. You're doing the same thing anyone who still loved someone and cared about their happiness would do... but it's not going to help you get through this if you're constantly afraid to stop being supportive of someone who has already walked away from the relationship. You aren't her crutch. The only thing you should be doing for her is advocating she see someone for her mental health.
I get why you frame putting forward some of her negative behaviors during a discussion about custody as something that would be hurtful for her. You care about her and don't want her to feel bad.
But please try to reframe the situation as working toward what will be best for your son. Start from that premise, always. Your wife's erratic behavior currently shows that's not how she's thinking about things. It is important to make sure any court mediating your divorce knows that.
I'm also not sure why you can't file yourself to set the opening terms of what you think is fair for custody. But I'm not familiar with TX family courts.
All this from a stranger on the internet that just wants to make sure you don't sell yourself short or acquiesce to what feels inevitable. Please ignore if you don't find any of this useful. I know right now is a really tough time.
Nothing stopping me from filing except not wanting to.
And yes, intellectually I think I know how stupid that is. I can't help but think maybe she'll snap out of it. I don't know that she's ever run away from anything where the other person actually ran after her instead of just waving goodbye.
Just to be clear here, because when you've talked about it before it's been a little cloudy. Your lawyer may have been assuming that she wants primary custody. Have you asked her if she wants custody of your son? Because if she doesn't care, or is fine with a reduced custody, that's got to change things. I can't imagine there's no "boilerplate, standard divorce" option where the wife and husband both agree to husband being primary caretaker.
And you absolutely need to fight for your son. Even if you're worried about how your son might handle having to go to court, it will almost certainly be a lot better than spending most of his time with an unbalanced woman and a man selfish enough to jeopardize another relationship. I don't know this other guy but I'd be willing to bet he isn't going to care much about your son.
Terrendos on
+11
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Just to be clear here, because when you've talked about it before it's been a little cloudy. Your lawyer may have been assuming that she wants primary custody. Have you asked her if she wants custody of your son? Because if she doesn't care, or is fine with a reduced custody, that's got to change things. I can't imagine there's no "boilerplate, standard divorce" option where the wife and husband both agree to husband being primary caretaker.
And you absolutely need to fight for your son. Even if you're worried about how your son might handle having to go to court, it will almost certainly be a lot better than spending most of his time with an unbalanced woman and a man selfish enough to jeopardize another relationship. I don't know this other guy but I'd be willing to bet he isn't going to care much about your son.
A lot of the laws in TX and Oklahoma seem to favor the mother as opposed to the father in custody hearings.
In an ironic twist, it was originally done like this to free men from the "burden" of being primary caretaker, and has embedded itself so deep into precedent that going against it is like swimming upstream.
When she came to the house to head to dinner, she was dirty and sweaty. I asked her what she had been doing, and she said she had been on a swing at a playground, alone, for the past several hours. She showed me blisters on her hands from where she had gripped the chains tightly and without pause for the two hours. She was dirty because when she jumped off after the two hours, her legs had gone numb from sitting in the swing for so long and when she landed the collapsed like a sack of potatoes in the dirt.
That doesn't sound normal to me? Like, at all? For reference on Friday's she gets out of work at noon. Our son gets out of school at 3:15. I picked him up from daycare at 5...
She acted like it was the most normal thing in the world, put bandaid on her fingers where the blisters were, and went to change and go to dinner.
...........Uh.......that does not sound normal at all. That sounds like a BIG FAT LIE to me. Trust your gut. You know something is off, you just hope so badly that it isn't that you are blinding yourself to the truth. Something very odd is happening here. If she *IS* telling the truth, she is acting erratically. Either way, I would assume that your child would be better off with you as the primary parent. She is the one that wants to walk away. That does not come without consequence.
I spent 4 years getting divorced. I tried to be the nice guy, tried to "do the right thing" by her. My ex-wife royally screwed me, and it left my son in a very vulnerable situation from which I had almost zero legal recourse. It took my ex abusing drugs in front of her new Mother-in-law for MONTHS before they reached out to me, and gave me what I needed to finally go back to court and win custody of him.
You need to do right by your son. That might mean you are going to have to draw a hard line. But you are going to need to look your son in the face when he is an adult and tell him why things turned out the way they did. You need to know that you did right by him.
A few things that you should keep in mind.
1. Temporary custody and temporary parenting plans WILL become the Permanent custody and parenting plan unless all parties agree to change it. The first judge will say it's temporary, you'll come back and they'll set a new plan. The next judge will say the first judge had a reason to set it the way they did, so they'll keep it the same.
2. Document EVERYTHING. In court, everything is Hearsay without proper documentation. If it's on paper, and you can hand it to a judge to look at, it's real, everything else is worthless.
Again, best of luck! My heart truly goes out to you.
“Think of me like Yoda, but instead of being little and green I wear suits and I'm awesome. I'm your bro—I'm Broda!”
Not worst case, basically "If it's a standard, no contest divorce, as there is no legal separation in Texas, this is about what you'll be looking at."
Wife would get primary custody unless I contest it and put forth reasons why she shouldn't, with me getting every first, 5th, and 7th(?) Weekend with my son. If I move more than 100 miles away, that turns into 45 days during the summer. Yes, I could go down the road with the bi-polar disorder, erratic behavior, and the lies/unexplained activity with the former significant other. But that would be extremely hurtful, so I don't know about that.
20% of salary for child support. My 401k was started right after we married, so she would get half of that. She doesn't have one to those who brought that up - she has only been back at work about a year, and her current position doesn't offer that as a benefit.
All of that changes if she files and I don't agree due to the situation. At that point it starts the back and forth.
To the question regarding my son and school, he turns 6 in October and is in Kindergarten. So no, not talking High School.
The lawyer has been doing family law specifically for roughly 40 years and came recommended from several folks I know.
I totally get why you don't want to be "hurtful" . But you have to think of you son first. If you need to burn everything down to make sure he is in the best situation, you look for the best place to light the wick,
Imagine your wife just "sat on the swings" when your son needed to get picked up , or get taken somewhere or whatever . Hell think of it as a worst case scenario that you can't work it out and you do split. Who would be better off raising him? if its you, you need to work that much harder based on the fact that you are the dad, and that may require bringing her behaviors up to the lawyer/hearings.
Well, the day after the family dinner we talked about what we were doing and where we were at - it took about a week for me to be able to put myself kicking and screaming into a box in my head and have the discussion as dispassionately as possible.
We discussed moving forward in our home and working on our marriage until at least the end of our son's school year. She has still not volunteered anything on my part that is of concern and continues to say she doesn't deserve to be in the relationship and married me because of how good I made her feel, not because of any love she felt for me personally. We also discussed the family vacation we were going to be taking in December on a cruise tour through the Bahamas, and agreed that we should keep the vacation and move forward as a family until any further decisions were made.
I was under the impression that is where we had come to a mutual agreement. In the day or two since then I went ahead and took more time off work to be at the house, did a family movie night, etc.
This morning I received an email alert via her google account (they show up on my phone/tablet because she uses them) that her online divorce petition had been received. Needless to say disappointed does not begin to cover my reaction. I am not sure what this means regarding where she, us, whatever the appropriate term is stands in relation to the process. Nor do I have any idea what the petition looks like.
I emailed the lawyer shortly after to get answers to those questions. And now I'm at work with absolutely zero focus or drive on anything I should be doing. So far as I know she was taking our son to a bounce-castle business to let him play. I won't be home until 9 or 10 pm tonight, so I'm just stuck here.
Regarding the who would be better off raising him, I honestly don't know. I work 55-60 hours a week and have shifts ranging from 5a-4p to 12p-11p. And it isn't like I can do without that job as apparently my financial situation is about to get much worse. I also don't have the erratic behavior or mental health issues, and have a much stronger family support network than she does. And the thought of sitting here trying to pick one makes me sick.
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ANOTHER THING - if you aren't in therapy, GET INTO IT. Not couple's therapy, get yourself into individual therapy and start working on the emotional upheaval that's coming out of this, and also on your self-esteem. It will help you in the long run, no matter how this shakes out.
Best of luck to you.
When you're going through something that threats to just completely hijack how you thought life was going to go, it's important to unplug from the problem at hand from time to time. Make sure your son's taken care of, but remember to do the same thing for yourself.
When she got home I asked her what on Earth she was thinking with the delivery thing. Its even better because his workplace is another store in my company, that I have peers in, and that I could possibly oversee if I get through this and take the promotion versus staying in my current position. And was delivered to the customer service desk, with her name as the sender, addressed to him. As an additional background, we both worked at this store. Aside from the current peers at my level running the place I know probably half that location in one way or another, and they know me and my wife.
After giving her three chances to come clean about the being at the guy's house instead of the story, I called her out and she gave. What I got was that she didn't tell me because she knew I would get upset, he's her friend, and she's trying to help him. I went over that yes I would have been upset, but I wouldn't have felt lied to, or that I was a total idiot. She said she understood and that she was sorry. I asked her if she had anything else to tell me, she said no. I said if being with this person would make her happy she should just do it and go, and she said she just wanted to be herself, by herself, except for our son. Her words.
God help me, but I believe her and went along with it even though I know I'm being absurd. She said she was sorry for all of it and she knows how much this is hurting our family. I asked if knowing that was enough to get her to stop and she said it wasn't like that, whatever that means.
I'll be meeting with a lawyer in the next couple of days, even though I really don't want to.
I also went ahead and bought a bottle of my old, standby bourbon. I won't be drinking it when my son is around, but at this point I'm of the mind that if there was ever a good reason to drink, I'm living it.
You don’t want to give her a justification for taking your son.
Right now she’s the one in the wrong. 100%.
Drinking solves nothing.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Echo this, strongly. But if you're going to drink, at least don't drink alone; get a friend you can trust around, someone who can gently keep you from having too much, and grab your phone before you send a text or make a call you'll regret.
Just don't do it. Worst reason ever to have one.
Give it to your lawyer, tell them to give it back when the papers are signed
I'm gonna tell you something my ex's father told me while they were moving her out of our home. I had told him I was convinced she was cheating on me and his response was: "No one makes a jump like this without knowing they have somewhere soft to land."
Its complete bullshit that she just wants to be alone just to be alone. She wants to be alone so she can be available to be with this guy. I believed my wife at first as well. It makes sense you want to believe her. You are riding that line between the denial and anger stages of grief. Denial makes you want to believe her.
Don't drink, man. Drinking and going through the anger you are about to go through is a bad combination. Go be around your friends/family. Let them know whats happening so they know how much you really need help right now. It is literally impossible to go through this alone. Dealing with a divorce in many ways is even worse than dealing with a death. You need help and people around you to give that help just like you would if you were experiencing a death.
Reach out and get help from those that actually love and care about you. No one is equipped to go through this alone.
I've been down that road with an ex. You will never come out looking like the good guy if she finds out.
I really am sorry man, you need support from friends and family right now! Not obsessing over where she is. Take your son and stay at your parents with him for a few days. Remember what truly matters and that is him!
― John Quincy Adams
Looks like I'll be seeing a lawyer Monday.
EDIT: Looks like its tomorrow afternoon, actually.
I've actually registered specifically after seeing this thread, after failing to figure out my old login. I was struck by her vision of the future being her alone but with your son. I agree with others above that she is unlikely to be thinking that she'll be alone. However, it may give an indication of her thoughts about what things would look like if you guys separated, i.e. her having primary or sole custody of your son. You've stated above that she has a lousy relationship with her family and would be entirely incapable of maintaining herself in the area that you're presently living in. She may have the idea that you would move out and support her if you separated, at least for a time, which would inevitably impair your ability to have good quality time with your son.
My separation was rather abrupt and marked initially by my ex desperately trying to get me to leave the house. I declined and it would later transpire that her idea was probably for me to leave, her and the kids to remain and for me to support them for 15+ years and have very limited, if any time with them. This was as much as I could glean from legal letters and arguments and her behaviour as she became extremely angry when things did not go the way she wished them to. There were then allegations which had to be disproven, which took a great deal of time and emotional energy.
Your wife may have an idea in mind of what will happen if you separate and it would be unlikely to involve her placing herself into a precarious living or financial situation. This would be unlikely to be beneficial for you as well. You need to look after yourself and your son, first and foremost. You're in a place to think of his needs and you can only ensure them by not allowing you to end up in a vulnerable position. Only a lawyer can reliably advise you as to how.
If you do separate, please try to keep it amicable for the sake of your son, but that doesn't mean rolling over either. You can be fair and firm simultaneously. And don't drink alone, you don't want any potential for accusations later on. I don't think anyone would criticise you for meeting with a friend or family member for drink/s, but don't sink yourself to the bottom of a bottle. There's nothing good down there.
Aside from everything else, you should be doing what is best for your child. Something that I did when I was getting a divorce was to take a parenting class. My lawyer suggested it, and told me that in many cases the wife can request it and the court will make you take it (WA state btw) so it would look good to a judge if I had already taken that step myself.
I really, REALLY did not want to go to a parenting class, but I am immensely grateful that I did. I actually learned a ton, and I am a better father for having done it. 100% would recommend that you look into it.
Best of luck!
Proud of you for taking steps here, man.
Next one: counselor. Don't wait. Your feelings are probably like twelve strings of Christmas lights that were all thrown into a box together. There's no way you're unpacking that shit alone without blood and expensive property damage, and bringing alcohol into the mix is only going to cause more pain. Find somebody that does it for a living, they're way better at it than you or anyone else you know and having two perspectives on the same situation makes it so much easier. Not only will they help you deal with the feelings of loss over your marriage, the betrayal, the promotion, etc, they will also help you figure out how to handle talking to your son about this, how to talk to people at work, family and friends, and what you should and should not talk about with your wife when you do talk to her.
I know your said your instinct is to shut down and not talk, but your best outlet for talking about your feelings is not an option here and you need that outlet now more than ever.
Yes, they will have questions for you.
Basically you can start with "my wife wants to separate, and here's what's going on." Be very honest. The conversation will be privileged to some degree as you are a potential client. That means the attorney will not be able to repeat anything you've told them to anyone else unless you give permission.
It's also perfectly acceptable for you to ask detailed questions about how much they cost and how they will bill you.
If you're up to it maybe write some of your questions down before you go.
If I take the promotion and end up getting placed more than 100 miles away, I get to see my son 45 days a year, and every other holiday.
If I don't take the promotion, or take it but get lucky and stay here, I pretty much get him a weekend or so on alternation.
She will get half my 401k. 20% of my salary. Basically automatic.
And this is with me having done nothing wrong.
For someone who supposedly loves me, but isn't IN love with me, this is a pretty life-destroying step.
All this is assuming we went boilerplate, mutual. Could go contested, but now I'm putting my son through mediations and restraining orders and all other kinds of nonsense. And I don't even want to get divorced from the woman in the first place.
I do have an understanding now of my situation, so that's good. It's just even worse than I thought.
If you own your house, don't move out. You'll be on the hook for the mortgage AND the rent on your apartment/hotel during that time.
I'm really sorry this is happening you to, Ray.
If she wants to cut ties and start again, then doesn't seem like it be that hard to get custody of the kid, especially if you're still open to her visiting on occasions.
If you think she wants to start anew, childless and carefree - ask your lawyer how that changes things for you. Might be able to come up with something that fits you both (you and your son move, get the new job - she visits holidays + optional other weekends if she actually chooses. Cash in the 401K is irritating, but if that were the cost to move and keep your son - would you pay it?).
Sounds like you've had worst case scenario laid out, but your situation sounds weirder. Though obviously IANAL.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
That's a worse case scenario probably.
If the lawyer that OP saw told him that was the only option, I'd be wary of that advice.
No he is hooking up now because his partner went to prison. The guy is not just out of prison. I think? Yeesh.
edit: and the woman who went to prison was her best friend, who he told Ray's wife "someday" to be with.
On the plus side, maybe after all this is over you can make it big as a writer.
Second consultation is recommended.
You're doing the right thing. Keep breaking up this shit show into manageable chunks and chipping away at the things you can. Progress is progress, no matter what. It's for your happiness and your son's happiness.
This could possibly totally negate the alimony and give you a much better chance of primary custody.
That 20% is likely child support, not alimony. Most states I know peg first child at 20%. Not saying she couldn't or wouldn't try for alimony, but from his post, that's likely what they're talking about.
Not worst case, basically "If it's a standard, no contest divorce, as there is no legal separation in Texas, this is about what you'll be looking at."
Wife would get primary custody unless I contest it and put forth reasons why she shouldn't, with me getting every first, 5th, and 7th(?) Weekend with my son. If I move more than 100 miles away, that turns into 45 days during the summer. Yes, I could go down the road with the bi-polar disorder, erratic behavior, and the lies/unexplained activity with the former significant other. But that would be extremely hurtful, so I don't know about that.
20% of salary for child support. My 401k was started right after we married, so she would get half of that. She doesn't have one to those who brought that up - she has only been back at work about a year, and her current position doesn't offer that as a benefit.
All of that changes if she files and I don't agree due to the situation. At that point it starts the back and forth.
To the question regarding my son and school, he turns 6 in October and is in Kindergarten. So no, not talking High School.
The lawyer has been doing family law specifically for roughly 40 years and came recommended from several folks I know. He seemed very knowledgeable and walked me through every question I had with patience.
It was my step-father's birthday last night, so we went to dinner with them and my sister and her husband/kids. After initially saying my wife wasn't welcome, I spoke to the parents and got them to say she could come, and that they would behave. I didn't want my son worried about her not being there.
So she went with us, and for about two hours it was like everything was normal and nothing had happened. I have tried to picture that activity with me, my son, and NOT her and I just can't imagine it.
EDIT: When she came to the house to head to dinner, she was dirty and sweaty. I asked her what she had been doing, and she said she had been on a swing at a playground, alone, for the past several hours. She showed me blisters on her hands from where she had gripped the chains tightly and without pause for the two hours. She was dirty because when she jumped off after the two hours, her legs had gone numb from sitting in the swing for so long and when she landed the collapsed like a sack of potatoes in the dirt.
That doesn't sound normal to me? Like, at all? For reference on Friday's she gets out of work at noon. Our son gets out of school at 3:15. I picked him up from daycare at 5...
She acted like it was the most normal thing in the world, put bandaid on her fingers where the blisters were, and went to change and go to dinner.
Your desire to not hurt her feelings and just let things happen is going to get you 45 days a year with your son who will end up living with someone who has mental health issues and a boyfriend she committed infidelity with.
This was her decision, stop trying to protect her.
Edit: The above isn't to say you're doing something malicious or being stupid. You're doing the same thing anyone who still loved someone and cared about their happiness would do... but it's not going to help you get through this if you're constantly afraid to stop being supportive of someone who has already walked away from the relationship. You aren't her crutch. The only thing you should be doing for her is advocating she see someone for her mental health.
But please try to reframe the situation as working toward what will be best for your son. Start from that premise, always. Your wife's erratic behavior currently shows that's not how she's thinking about things. It is important to make sure any court mediating your divorce knows that.
I'm also not sure why you can't file yourself to set the opening terms of what you think is fair for custody. But I'm not familiar with TX family courts.
All this from a stranger on the internet that just wants to make sure you don't sell yourself short or acquiesce to what feels inevitable. Please ignore if you don't find any of this useful. I know right now is a really tough time.
And yes, intellectually I think I know how stupid that is. I can't help but think maybe she'll snap out of it. I don't know that she's ever run away from anything where the other person actually ran after her instead of just waving goodbye.
Believe her.
And you absolutely need to fight for your son. Even if you're worried about how your son might handle having to go to court, it will almost certainly be a lot better than spending most of his time with an unbalanced woman and a man selfish enough to jeopardize another relationship. I don't know this other guy but I'd be willing to bet he isn't going to care much about your son.
A lot of the laws in TX and Oklahoma seem to favor the mother as opposed to the father in custody hearings.
In an ironic twist, it was originally done like this to free men from the "burden" of being primary caretaker, and has embedded itself so deep into precedent that going against it is like swimming upstream.
...........Uh.......that does not sound normal at all. That sounds like a BIG FAT LIE to me. Trust your gut. You know something is off, you just hope so badly that it isn't that you are blinding yourself to the truth. Something very odd is happening here. If she *IS* telling the truth, she is acting erratically. Either way, I would assume that your child would be better off with you as the primary parent. She is the one that wants to walk away. That does not come without consequence.
I spent 4 years getting divorced. I tried to be the nice guy, tried to "do the right thing" by her. My ex-wife royally screwed me, and it left my son in a very vulnerable situation from which I had almost zero legal recourse. It took my ex abusing drugs in front of her new Mother-in-law for MONTHS before they reached out to me, and gave me what I needed to finally go back to court and win custody of him.
You need to do right by your son. That might mean you are going to have to draw a hard line. But you are going to need to look your son in the face when he is an adult and tell him why things turned out the way they did. You need to know that you did right by him.
A few things that you should keep in mind.
1. Temporary custody and temporary parenting plans WILL become the Permanent custody and parenting plan unless all parties agree to change it. The first judge will say it's temporary, you'll come back and they'll set a new plan. The next judge will say the first judge had a reason to set it the way they did, so they'll keep it the same.
2. Document EVERYTHING. In court, everything is Hearsay without proper documentation. If it's on paper, and you can hand it to a judge to look at, it's real, everything else is worthless.
Again, best of luck! My heart truly goes out to you.
I totally get why you don't want to be "hurtful" . But you have to think of you son first. If you need to burn everything down to make sure he is in the best situation, you look for the best place to light the wick,
Imagine your wife just "sat on the swings" when your son needed to get picked up , or get taken somewhere or whatever . Hell think of it as a worst case scenario that you can't work it out and you do split. Who would be better off raising him? if its you, you need to work that much harder based on the fact that you are the dad, and that may require bringing her behaviors up to the lawyer/hearings.
We discussed moving forward in our home and working on our marriage until at least the end of our son's school year. She has still not volunteered anything on my part that is of concern and continues to say she doesn't deserve to be in the relationship and married me because of how good I made her feel, not because of any love she felt for me personally. We also discussed the family vacation we were going to be taking in December on a cruise tour through the Bahamas, and agreed that we should keep the vacation and move forward as a family until any further decisions were made.
I was under the impression that is where we had come to a mutual agreement. In the day or two since then I went ahead and took more time off work to be at the house, did a family movie night, etc.
This morning I received an email alert via her google account (they show up on my phone/tablet because she uses them) that her online divorce petition had been received. Needless to say disappointed does not begin to cover my reaction. I am not sure what this means regarding where she, us, whatever the appropriate term is stands in relation to the process. Nor do I have any idea what the petition looks like.
I emailed the lawyer shortly after to get answers to those questions. And now I'm at work with absolutely zero focus or drive on anything I should be doing. So far as I know she was taking our son to a bounce-castle business to let him play. I won't be home until 9 or 10 pm tonight, so I'm just stuck here.
Regarding the who would be better off raising him, I honestly don't know. I work 55-60 hours a week and have shifts ranging from 5a-4p to 12p-11p. And it isn't like I can do without that job as apparently my financial situation is about to get much worse. I also don't have the erratic behavior or mental health issues, and have a much stronger family support network than she does. And the thought of sitting here trying to pick one makes me sick.