Optimistic: She filed the online application for divorce last week sometime while in crisis and the notification is that they finally started initial processing.
Pessimistic: She's manipulating the situation and willing to lie to your face. Either because she is being pressured by the other guy or her infatuated guilt is making her erratic.
Realistic: Plan for the worst, probably don't waste money on a vacation and instead spend it on marriage counseling.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Alright just.. hang on. PSA time.
You say she's been diagnosed and is currently being medicated for bipolar disorder. Is she being properly monitored? Does she keep track of and she and her prescribing doctor recognize when she's symptomatic well enough that they can recognize if adjustment is necessary? Does she go in and speak with her prescribing doctor at least three times a year? Is she good with her kid?
If the answer to all three of those questions is yes, no one here should be talking about her like she's bonkers. The OP probably to at least some extent knows the answers to these questions... we do not. People are perfectly capable of making shitty, split-second decisions without having a diagnosable mental illness, and they are also capable of lying and cheating to support them. She was carrying a torch for someone who suddenly came back into her life, said she felt like she hadn't been herself since... him, basically, and they talked about it and she said some stuff. How many times have you heard someone say "but we never stopped thinking of each other"? Ill-advised in this case or not, there is no reason to turn that into a bipolar episode. It sucks, but it happens. And that's not to say there isn't something chemical going on here, but we don't have nearly enough information to make that call ourselves.
Be very careful putting things out there like "emotionally unstable mother" and think about what you're saying, especially in a situation that is so emotionally fraught to begin with. For the purposes of those offering advice, really think about what you're saying when you tell someone to offer up emotional instability you haven't really seen signs of as a potential legal argument in a case like this. We know from what he said (for some reason) that she is properly diagnosed and medicated for bipolar disorder. Really think about suggesting that a mental health issue, no matter how well-managed, should be grounds for losing your kids so we can all go back to being scared to get treatment because getting better might be grounds for someone taking your children away. The same argument could be made for, say, alcoholism. Some people still live in that world, and I'm willing to bet at least some of them are reading this, let's not make it harder for them to seek treatment.
Think about what you're reading, what you know of the situation, and what you actually believe outside of the heat of this circumstance. Use some sense in a part of the forum where giving Bad Advice can net you a three-pointer. You aren't allowed to tell an OP to burn someone's house down no matter how funny you think you are, and you aren't allowed to suggest someone's wife is emotionally ill-equipped to raise a child from two lines of very biased text (that honestly indicate no real or immediate threat) no matter how sympathetic or engaged you are.
______
For the purposes of the OP, Raynaga you can probably forget about her feelings on the matter and think about what it would put your son through for you to stand up and argue that without something else to go on. If she's behaving in an otherwise destructive way or it's part of a pattern, it might be worth considering for the safety and emotional well-being of your son that you put that on the table. Otherwise, assuming she wants custody, it's worth mediation. Don't be afraid to take a hard line on all of this! You should! It sucks! But also you should both think of your son first and foremost when it comes to what pictures you want to paint of each other. Of course he won't be there, but unless you're both saints that stuff has a way of coming out eventually; at least it did with most of my friends who have been through custody battles (as both parents and kids).
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
If it's not too late, cancel the darn vacation. Or just take your kid and have it be daddy-son time. Taking a family vacation all together in the middle of a divorce will be very unpleasant for all of you, especially your kid who will pick up on the bad vibes.
What pattern of child custody would be ideal for you if you got exactly what you want? If you are working weird hours, would it be best for you to have weekends and her to have weekdays?
While I know I may not be a great judge right now, I don't think my wife is dangerous to our son. Yes, she has been behaving very erratically lately. But that's a two week period in 7 years.
The reason I am very hesitant to go that road is it would be very hurtful and I don't know how accurate it would really be.
Like I said in my very first post, I know I could very well be looking for external factors to make myself feel better, I don't know. I think I am probably the definition of an unreliable narrator. The best thing I can say is I don't think I could love someone who was a genuine danger to our son, and I do love her very much.
I guess I brought it up because, honestly, the concern is there in my head that something was or is happening as I try to make sense of torching 7 years and a life together in such a short time, and the dramatic emotional shifts and odd behaviors. When your spouse who has had, in her life, periods where she was depressive to the point of self-harm saying things like "I don't deserve to he happy" and "I hate myself when I look in a mirror" combined with all the other stuff, I don't think I'm being TOO unreasonable to have the thought?
Regarding the vacation, we're past the refund point. Cancellation was my first thought, and (don't know how screwed up this is) give her the money to help her do what she feels she has to if that's where we are at. It's already spent anyway. When we found out we could cancel but would only get something like 30% back, it made more sense to keep it.
On a custody pattern, I don't know. I'm on a rotation that gives me Monday Tuesday off, then Saturday Sunday, then Sunday Friday, then Wednesday Friday, and then it repeats. So there's no easy answer there. If finances weren't a concern I would just step down in a heartbeat for a position with a more set schedule, but that would be at least a 30k a year hit and I don't see how I could provide for all concerned in that scenario.
If I am honest my main thought regarding custody would be staying in our house in his school would be more stable for him versus going with her to some low-rent apartment with her doing whatever it is she is planning to do. And her be able to visit or take him whenever she wanted. Fully aware that's not actually feasible under the law.
While I know I may not be a great judge right now, I don't think my wife is dangerous to our son. Yes, she has been behaving very erratically lately. But that's a two week period in 7 years.
The reason I am very hesitant to go that road is it would be very hurtful and I don't know how accurate it would really be.
Like I said in my very first post, I know I could very well be looking for external factors to make myself feel better, I don't know. I think I am probably the definition of an unreliable narrator. The best thing I can say is I don't think I could love someone who was a genuine danger to our son, and I do love her very much.
I guess I brought it up because, honestly, the concern is there in my head that something was or is happening as I try to make sense of torching 7 years and a life together in such a short time, and the dramatic emotional shifts and odd behaviors. When your spouse who has had, in her life, periods where she was depressive to the point of self-harm saying things like "I don't deserve to he happy" and "I hate myself when I look in a mirror" combined with all the other stuff, I don't think I'm being TOO unreasonable to have the thought?
Regarding the vacation, we're past the refund point. Cancellation was my first thought, and (don't know how screwed up this is) give her the money to help her do what she feels she has to if that's where we are at. It's already spent anyway. When we found out we could cancel but would only get something like 30% back, it made more sense to keep it.
On a custody pattern, I don't know. I'm on a rotation that gives me Monday Tuesday off, then Saturday Sunday, then Sunday Friday, then Wednesday Friday, and then it repeats. So there's no easy answer there. If finances weren't a concern I would just step down in a heartbeat for a position with a more set schedule, but that would be at least a 30k a year hit and I don't see how I could provide for all concerned in that scenario.
If I am honest my main thought regarding custody would be staying in our house in his school would be more stable for him versus going with her to some low-rent apartment with her doing whatever it is she is planning to do. And her be able to visit or take him whenever she wanted. Fully aware that's not actually feasible under the law.
Can you take a family member on the cruise instead? Or just go with your son. It might also be good to remember that 30% is better than nothing, if you're paying to do something that will make you miserable.
Just a couple of things here:
1. Your son is 5 years old. It's going to be way easier to change schools now than it will as he gets older. I really wouldn't worry too much about pulling him out of school.
2. That support network you have is also a good thing. Having your parents within easy driving distance can really help you while you get things straightened out. Would they be willing to help with watching him while you're at work?
3. It sounds like you are probably going to have to sell the house. I know it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. What sort of emergency fund do you have? If you did take a pay cut, would you be able to last ~6 months to get the house sold and moved into a new place?
4. You've used the word "hurtful" several times. Ceres is absolutely right, and it would be hurtful to try to use her treated condition as an excuse for this. What is not hurtful is you being honest and fighting for custody of your son, even if it hurts your wife's feelings. You are going to have an uphill battle on the custody front, so standing up for yourself will be important.
As for the vacation, don't consider the money - it's not important and it's spent anyway. You've booked the time off and making that worth your while is what matters. Spending 2K to be miserable on a boat is no different from spending 2K to be miserable at home.
Your kid is five, they'd love the boat and they'd love beaches and they would probably remember most of it - or at least the highlights. But they'd probably love most holidays you do with them, and if things go bad whilst you're trapped on a boat, they'll definitely remember that.
The trip you booked as a couple was for you as a family, and more so as parents (presumably doing your first big trip away), it would have been a point your son would kind of remember, but not something critical to his life that'd he'd always keep with him. It'd influence what you guys did in some alternative future depending on how wonderful the sunsets were/how awful the sea sickness was - you've basically missed out on something in a parallel universe that could have been amazing, or could have been horrendous. I guarantee you that even if you skip the cruise, having that time off to spend with your son (and maybe even your family) will be at least as good as what you could have had on that cruise - working to your own schedule, picking what you want, when you want, and with who you want, whilst just knowing that at least someone isn't vomiting at any point in time will have their charm.
Or you could see if a family member can buy your wife out (and get a ticket for their significant other, or switch for your double cabin). Just take the time to get away from everything and spend time with your son knowing that nothing work related is going to intervene. It'll be a nice bonding episode between your kid and the other relatives, if you bring babysitters. It won't be an escape from the divorce though, unless your folks are particularly good at not bringing this kind of thing up. But if it's something you really wanted to do yourself, then that might also be worth doing just so everything in your life isn't about the break up. Think back on it as that year you swum with the sharks/dolphins rather than that year when the paperwork was initially filed for the divorce.
If it were me, I'd see if ex-wife can't buy out your ticket (call it a loss on the kid's) and then just take the time. Same trip in two to three years will be life changing for the kid, rather than something dimly remembered and it won't be tainted by this shadow overhead. You're paying the money to get away, rather than to go see something, so just get away from it whilst you have the time and ignore the location.
Some time at home with the kid, with a pause put on the divorce as your ex is off on a cruise, might be money well spent.
I may have only read about 60% of what followed after the initial post. At the parts where you talk about her being out of your league, or about how she settled for you I cringed. None of this seems fine to me.
I won't give you my advice for a first step, but it rhymes with lange the chocks.
furbat on
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I may have only read about 60% of what followed after the initial post. At the parts where you talk about her being out of your league, or about how she settled for you I cringed. None of this seems fine to me.
I won't give you my advice for a first step, but it rhymes with lange the chocks.
Perhaps you should consider reading the rest, especially the moderator posts.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Do you think the marriage is going to last until December?
Anything you could get for the tickets would be better than trying to hold things together and go on a vacation with someone who doesn't want to be there.
You seem to be determined to just keep going like there's nothing really wrong in the hopes it all works out. Do you see a therapist? Does she? Have you brought up couple's counseling?
Its interesting that you blanked the suggestions of changing your vacation plans somewhat, Raynaga. The idea of taking a relative instead of your wife, or taking your son on his own didn’t seem to register with you.
This suggests to me that you are still desperately hoping that the vacation will fix things, when in all probability it will be a series of fights when your kid will be trapped in the cabin with you. Not good.
If you won’t change your plans, just cancel and get the 30% back and take him to the local amusement park with it - he’ll be just as happy.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good. You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good.You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good.You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
I am? That's what she told me, and the blisters were there. And if she was going to lie, I'd think there would be more normal things to say? Not sure if the implication here is her lying or me.
Regarding the vacation, I didn't blank on the suggestions and I am not thinking it will "fix things." I mostly don't want to rob my son of the experience. It isn't our first big trip, that was to St. Croix for a week when he was 3 /12 - 4'ish.
Regarding emergency fund, my 401k has enough for about 7 months worth of expenses. Non-401k, maybe a couple of months?
Neither of us see a therapist now. I have brought up marriage counseling, without a lot of luck.
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good.You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
I am? That's what she told me, and the blisters were there. And if she was going to lie, I'd think there would be more normal things to say? Not sure if the implication here is her lying or me.
Regarding the vacation, I didn't blank on the suggestions and I am not thinking it will "fix things." I mostly don't want to rob my son of the experience. It isn't our first big trip, that was to St. Croix for a week when he was 3 /12 - 4'ish.
Regarding emergency fund, my 401k has enough for about 7 months worth of expenses. Non-401k, maybe a couple of months?
Neither of us see a therapist now. I have brought up marriage counseling, without a lot of luck.
Man, I don't know how any story she tells you can be taken at face value anymore.
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good.You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
I am? That's what she told me, and the blisters were there. And if she was going to lie, I'd think there would be more normal things to say? Not sure if the implication here is her lying or me.
Regarding the vacation, I didn't blank on the suggestions and I am not thinking it will "fix things." I mostly don't want to rob my son of the experience. It isn't our first big trip, that was to St. Croix for a week when he was 3 /12 - 4'ish.
Regarding emergency fund, my 401k has enough for about 7 months worth of expenses. Non-401k, maybe a couple of months?
Neither of us see a therapist now. I have brought up marriage counseling, without a lot of luck.
How well do you remember vacations from when you were his age? I doubt it's going to make a lot of difference. He's too young to snorkel or scuba, the only thing he's going to be able to do in the Bahamas is play on the beach, which you don't need the Bahamas for. But if you really want the cruise vacation (and I certainly wouldn't blame you for wanting an escape) don't take your wife, who may well be your ex-wife by then. Heck, take your dad and make it a grandfather/father/son male bonding experience!
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good.You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
Either she is telling the truth about the swing and all that, or she isn't and ended up all dirty and blistery from something else that she doesn't want to talk about.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
It's only been for two weeks of the past seven years, but right now it sounds like she is really freaking erratic in her behavior. Sitting for hours on a swing, long enough to get blisters on her hands and to put her legs to sleep is not good.You need to prioritize yourself here, but you might want to keep an eye out that she's getting proper help keeping things together. Right now it sounds like her support network is you, your family, and the guy she carried the torch for. That's not exactly great for sorting out her feelings and making good decisions. But again, you and your son need to be the priority.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
I am? That's what she told me, and the blisters were there. And if she was going to lie, I'd think there would be more normal things to say? Not sure if the implication here is her lying or me.
Regarding the vacation, I didn't blank on the suggestions and I am not thinking it will "fix things." I mostly don't want to rob my son of the experience. It isn't our first big trip, that was to St. Croix for a week when he was 3 /12 - 4'ish.
Regarding emergency fund, my 401k has enough for about 7 months worth of expenses. Non-401k, maybe a couple of months?
Neither of us see a therapist now. I have brought up marriage counseling, without a lot of luck.
Man, I don't know how any story she tells you can be taken at face value anymore.
Because if it doesn't really matter (why she didn't pick up the kid from preschool), it doesn't really matter if you've decided you're separating.
If you think she's acting weird, then probably she's acting weird especially if you think it's a phase. No win otherwise, you're either a dickhead who was right and a dickhead about it or just a dickhead who assumes the worst and fucked someone over for no reason - there's a third person involved who's going to get both sides of the story, regardless of how true either side is.
They'll most see through any bullshit, more or less - but will never be approaching things from just your side or with a perfect version of the facts, so if you start making things all about how your ex can't be trusted, they'll probably take her side on that point because they'll be defending something they think they know. If you don't pretend to know what was happening, they'll either tell you your version or admit that they don't know either, and you can deal with that as you may.
When it's not kid stuff, and there's legal grown up consequences - protect yourself, but day to day strangeness you just need to roll with. You're in a strange situation, things are stupid and strange - unless your planning something really permanent (sole custody, no visitation, she's cut free from family), then just let the madness slide. This won't end well, just be ready to make it the best it can be when it ends.
The day to day strangeness part makes sense I guess.
She has already offered to step out on the vacation and just have me and our son go. Working on that feeling right. I worry that he would just be confused the whole time why she wasn't there. And that I would want her there.
The lawyer responded saying the online submission thing can mean a lot of things, but isn't the same as actually filing. He said if I wasn't willing to file first and wanted to keep working on it, that's my choice, but that I needed to let him know the second I receive anything from her physically, in the mail, whatever.
I said screw it and asked her about it, outright. She said she wanted to see how the process works. It seems pretty clear that she hasn't consulted a lawyer. Not sure if that's good or bad.
You, your son and the Grandparents would be the traditional new norm - that possible? Everyone gets to be away together and you get some adult time too. Kid gets to play with Granny and Grandad, but you're there to take him back when things get too much. He'll roll with that, and chances are you'll be using that layer of support if transport isn't too much of an issue. If it's just you and the kid though, maybe try camping in the garden, as a practice - you're someone else and new rules apply. Mum isn't just in the house. If there's stuff to do, it's less of an issue. Children are durable when distracted.
As for lawyers - ask yourself is it over? Are things different now than they were before?
You don't seem convinced that this is just a mad weekend situation. If she's not recoiling from a separation/divorce then maybe continue the process - she'll be free and you'll have your son. Nothing stopping you from falling back in love - should the stars align and things be right.
From everything you say, she seems responsibly irresponsible. Raising a kid in this relationship is too much for her, but she's not going to want to cut all ties. If she can drift in and out whilst you do the day to day raising of the kid then that might work for her and her lawyer. Long as the door is open for the kid, you're probably free to set terms (given you'll be the real parent).
She has already offered to step out on the vacation and just have me and our son go. Working on that feeling right. I worry that he would just be confused the whole time why she wasn't there. And that I would want her there.
I think she's being sensible here. I'm sure you *do* want her to be there because you never wanted to split, but that's not going to happen. Making plans without her might help you accept this.
Little kids *can* deal with one of their parents not being there if they know they will see them again soon. Heck, my kid spent a week at Grandma's at 5 years old with no parents there and seemed very happy.
You could always offer to let her and your son go on their own, but she might want to take her new bloke and that would upset you. Stormy waters, there.
CelestialBadger on
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
If he asks you say you wanted to spend time, just the two of you, doing something special together. If you act like it's true, he'll believe you. If you let go and have fun, he will too. He's 5. You're his dad and he loves you and would probably love it if you spent a couple days with him teaching him cool things about shit. If you're camping, you can very literally do that. Or go to a museum. Or an arcade. If you're focused on him and spending time with him, he'll be great.
The really important thing is that you reframe it in your mind from "something I was supposed to do with my wife" to "something I get to do with my son."
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
The really important thing is that you reframe it in your mind from "something I was supposed to do with my wife" to "something I get to do with my son."
Kids at that age see a whole hell of a lot more than we ever give them credit for, and they will key off of whatever you're feeling. Don't ever let how you feel towards your wife color how you deal with him, because he'll pick up on things.
Also, watch what you say about anything- because I imagine he'll want to tell his mother about anything, and nine times out of ten he'll mention whatever you say because it was about her.
I don't want to say anything about her, because I love her. And I am trying very hard to do what I can to help her through whatever she is going through.
I may be an idiot.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I don't want to say anything about her, because I love her. And I am trying very hard to do what I can to help her through whatever she is going through.
I may be an idiot.
*shrug* Who knows. Self-judgement isn't useful right now. It's in everyone's best interest right now that things stay cordial between you two, but don't worry about that stuff at the expense of your own healing. Hell, even if everything were back to normal tomorrow (it probably won't be) you would need to focus on your own healing as a priority. This whole thing has been one big breech of trust, inside and out. You don't just get over that. A saint would need therapy. That's okay. Do yourself a favor and start sooner rather than later. You'll get through it.
Aside from that, maybe you could try to spend time (not money, time) with your kid. Read to him. Do puzzles with him. Take him to the park. Do your best to make sure that in the coming months he feels truly loved and attended to rather than forgotten. That's going to be important. Even if you can't believe it right now, you're going to have a life after this. Do whatever you need to do to get there more or less intact.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
The people in this forum, however well meaning, are not people you should lean on heavily for this. You really just need to get a counselor and a lawyer and talk to both of them, because you're going to get mixed value advice here.
View the lawyer and counsellor not as tools you are hiring specifically to navigate a complicated event in the best interest of your son. You can absolutely choose not to view this combatively with your spouse, just focus with the lawyer on getting your son as much freedom and access to your money as possible. Distinguish between other people, such as your wife, having access to your money, and your son having access to your money through you.
What is this I don't even.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Ohhhh boy if you have a joint account get that figured out now.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Ohhhh boy if you have a joint account get that figured out now.
This ain't no lie. And it goes for everything.
I eventually got my shit together but it was after a lot of pain and hardship because I trusted my ex wife not to fuck me over, and when I got collections calls from the electric company, AT&T, and all of these other companies I put under my name, I was in the hole a cool $10k all told.
I'm telling you to do this now before shit gets bad: If anything at that house is in her name, get it out of her name. It removes the responsibility from her to keep the accounts current and you won't get inundated with late charges, overdrafts (My ex pulled out of the bank account, didn't remove any names, and kept some of the bills that eventually went to collections auto collecting on this account until it was thousands in the hole, with my name on it), or any surprises at all.
It's surprisingly easy to entangle your life with someone else. What's not easy is untangling.
Ohhhh boy if you have a joint account get that figured out now.
This ain't no lie. And it goes for everything.
I eventually got my shit together but it was after a lot of pain and hardship because I trusted my ex wife not to fuck me over, and when I got collections calls from the electric company, AT&T, and all of these other companies I put under my name, I was in the hole a cool $10k all told.
I'm telling you to do this now before shit gets bad: If anything at that house is in her name, get it out of her name. It removes the responsibility from her to keep the accounts current and you won't get inundated with late charges, overdrafts (My ex pulled out of the bank account, didn't remove any names, and kept some of the bills that eventually went to collections auto collecting on this account until it was thousands in the hole, with my name on it), or any surprises at all.
It's surprisingly easy to entangle your life with someone else. What's not easy is untangling.
You mentioned seeing that she has possibly filed for divorce - before you do anything regarding finances and removing her from accounts, find out if 1. she for SURE filed and 2. if your county has a standing order (I remember you saying you were in Texas?). Standing orders expressly forbid removing people from accounts and things like that, and it doesn't matter if you haven't been served - if she filed, the standing order is in effect (if it exists). Call your attorney and ask about this - it is super important. My boss has filed an enforcement action for a client based on the standing order in our county and won a monetary judgment. In our county, it also forbids removing the child from the state of Texas without written agreement of the parties or a court order.
Guys, I know you're trying to help, but giving people advice about what to do about financial accounts in the event of a divorce is legal advice and you should seriously quit doing it for exactly this reason.
Jennerose on
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Oh yeah, don't go moving money around till you know if it's okay and how. But definitely do get that figured out ASAP. I should not have assumed everyone would necessarily think of the getting legal advice part.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Ohhhh boy if you have a joint account get that figured out now.
This ain't no lie. And it goes for everything.
I eventually got my shit together but it was after a lot of pain and hardship because I trusted my ex wife not to fuck me over, and when I got collections calls from the electric company, AT&T, and all of these other companies I put under my name, I was in the hole a cool $10k all told.
I'm telling you to do this now before shit gets bad: If anything at that house is in her name, get it out of her name. It removes the responsibility from her to keep the accounts current and you won't get inundated with late charges, overdrafts (My ex pulled out of the bank account, didn't remove any names, and kept some of the bills that eventually went to collections auto collecting on this account until it was thousands in the hole, with my name on it), or any surprises at all.
It's surprisingly easy to entangle your life with someone else. What's not easy is untangling.
You mentioned seeing that she has possibly filed for divorce - before you do anything regarding finances and removing her from accounts, find out if 1. she for SURE filed and 2. if your county has a standing order (I remember you saying you were in Texas?). Standing orders expressly forbid removing people from accounts and things like that, and it doesn't matter if you haven't been served - if she filed, the standing order is in effect (if it exists). Call your attorney and ask about this - it is super important. My boss has filed an enforcement action for a client based on the standing order in our county and won a monetary judgment. In our county, it also forbids removing the child from the state of Texas without written agreement of the parties or a court order.
Guys, I know you're trying to help, but giving people advice about what to do about financial accounts in the event of a divorce is legal advice and you should seriously quit doing it for exactly this reason.
Do standing orders effect things outside of financial accounts/bank accounts?
So, yes, joint account. That was one of the things I asked the lawyer about.
He basically said the same thing - don't close any accounts, but start withdrawing what you can from your portion of contributed funds from each check moving forward that isn't needed for bill's, etc and set it aside.
What she submitted was apparently an online petition to file, not the same thing as filing. And apparently nothing has been done since then.
It's actually been fairly quiet the last couple of days. After we talked Sunday about the petition and some other things while it hasn't been normal, it has been normal'ish? Not real sure where things stand.
Not yet. Not sure where I would even begin to look for one.
Plus, of the three of us (wife, son, me) I need things the least.
Yeah, if you don't take care of yourself you're not going to be in a good enough place to be there for your kid. If it helps, think of you going to therapy as helping you be stable for your child.
You are going to naturally have some big huge feelings and will need a place to express them that is healthy.
If you have any friends who you know or suspect have seen a therapist, ask them to refer you.
Or call the same number you call to get an appointment with a doctor or specialist and ask them to refer you to one.
Or, if neither of those pan out, googling "therapists in [place I live]" would probably get you off to a really good start. I just did it, and at least for my city, there are a bunch of easy results
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Pessimistic: She's manipulating the situation and willing to lie to your face. Either because she is being pressured by the other guy or her infatuated guilt is making her erratic.
Realistic: Plan for the worst, probably don't waste money on a vacation and instead spend it on marriage counseling.
You say she's been diagnosed and is currently being medicated for bipolar disorder. Is she being properly monitored? Does she keep track of and she and her prescribing doctor recognize when she's symptomatic well enough that they can recognize if adjustment is necessary? Does she go in and speak with her prescribing doctor at least three times a year? Is she good with her kid?
If the answer to all three of those questions is yes, no one here should be talking about her like she's bonkers. The OP probably to at least some extent knows the answers to these questions... we do not. People are perfectly capable of making shitty, split-second decisions without having a diagnosable mental illness, and they are also capable of lying and cheating to support them. She was carrying a torch for someone who suddenly came back into her life, said she felt like she hadn't been herself since... him, basically, and they talked about it and she said some stuff. How many times have you heard someone say "but we never stopped thinking of each other"? Ill-advised in this case or not, there is no reason to turn that into a bipolar episode. It sucks, but it happens. And that's not to say there isn't something chemical going on here, but we don't have nearly enough information to make that call ourselves.
Be very careful putting things out there like "emotionally unstable mother" and think about what you're saying, especially in a situation that is so emotionally fraught to begin with. For the purposes of those offering advice, really think about what you're saying when you tell someone to offer up emotional instability you haven't really seen signs of as a potential legal argument in a case like this. We know from what he said (for some reason) that she is properly diagnosed and medicated for bipolar disorder. Really think about suggesting that a mental health issue, no matter how well-managed, should be grounds for losing your kids so we can all go back to being scared to get treatment because getting better might be grounds for someone taking your children away. The same argument could be made for, say, alcoholism. Some people still live in that world, and I'm willing to bet at least some of them are reading this, let's not make it harder for them to seek treatment.
Think about what you're reading, what you know of the situation, and what you actually believe outside of the heat of this circumstance. Use some sense in a part of the forum where giving Bad Advice can net you a three-pointer. You aren't allowed to tell an OP to burn someone's house down no matter how funny you think you are, and you aren't allowed to suggest someone's wife is emotionally ill-equipped to raise a child from two lines of very biased text (that honestly indicate no real or immediate threat) no matter how sympathetic or engaged you are.
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For the purposes of the OP, Raynaga you can probably forget about her feelings on the matter and think about what it would put your son through for you to stand up and argue that without something else to go on. If she's behaving in an otherwise destructive way or it's part of a pattern, it might be worth considering for the safety and emotional well-being of your son that you put that on the table. Otherwise, assuming she wants custody, it's worth mediation. Don't be afraid to take a hard line on all of this! You should! It sucks! But also you should both think of your son first and foremost when it comes to what pictures you want to paint of each other. Of course he won't be there, but unless you're both saints that stuff has a way of coming out eventually; at least it did with most of my friends who have been through custody battles (as both parents and kids).
What pattern of child custody would be ideal for you if you got exactly what you want? If you are working weird hours, would it be best for you to have weekends and her to have weekdays?
While I know I may not be a great judge right now, I don't think my wife is dangerous to our son. Yes, she has been behaving very erratically lately. But that's a two week period in 7 years.
The reason I am very hesitant to go that road is it would be very hurtful and I don't know how accurate it would really be.
Like I said in my very first post, I know I could very well be looking for external factors to make myself feel better, I don't know. I think I am probably the definition of an unreliable narrator. The best thing I can say is I don't think I could love someone who was a genuine danger to our son, and I do love her very much.
I guess I brought it up because, honestly, the concern is there in my head that something was or is happening as I try to make sense of torching 7 years and a life together in such a short time, and the dramatic emotional shifts and odd behaviors. When your spouse who has had, in her life, periods where she was depressive to the point of self-harm saying things like "I don't deserve to he happy" and "I hate myself when I look in a mirror" combined with all the other stuff, I don't think I'm being TOO unreasonable to have the thought?
Regarding the vacation, we're past the refund point. Cancellation was my first thought, and (don't know how screwed up this is) give her the money to help her do what she feels she has to if that's where we are at. It's already spent anyway. When we found out we could cancel but would only get something like 30% back, it made more sense to keep it.
On a custody pattern, I don't know. I'm on a rotation that gives me Monday Tuesday off, then Saturday Sunday, then Sunday Friday, then Wednesday Friday, and then it repeats. So there's no easy answer there. If finances weren't a concern I would just step down in a heartbeat for a position with a more set schedule, but that would be at least a 30k a year hit and I don't see how I could provide for all concerned in that scenario.
If I am honest my main thought regarding custody would be staying in our house in his school would be more stable for him versus going with her to some low-rent apartment with her doing whatever it is she is planning to do. And her be able to visit or take him whenever she wanted. Fully aware that's not actually feasible under the law.
Can you take a family member on the cruise instead? Or just go with your son. It might also be good to remember that 30% is better than nothing, if you're paying to do something that will make you miserable.
Just a couple of things here:
1. Your son is 5 years old. It's going to be way easier to change schools now than it will as he gets older. I really wouldn't worry too much about pulling him out of school.
2. That support network you have is also a good thing. Having your parents within easy driving distance can really help you while you get things straightened out. Would they be willing to help with watching him while you're at work?
3. It sounds like you are probably going to have to sell the house. I know it sucks, but it's not the end of the world. What sort of emergency fund do you have? If you did take a pay cut, would you be able to last ~6 months to get the house sold and moved into a new place?
4. You've used the word "hurtful" several times. Ceres is absolutely right, and it would be hurtful to try to use her treated condition as an excuse for this. What is not hurtful is you being honest and fighting for custody of your son, even if it hurts your wife's feelings. You are going to have an uphill battle on the custody front, so standing up for yourself will be important.
Your kid is five, they'd love the boat and they'd love beaches and they would probably remember most of it - or at least the highlights. But they'd probably love most holidays you do with them, and if things go bad whilst you're trapped on a boat, they'll definitely remember that.
The trip you booked as a couple was for you as a family, and more so as parents (presumably doing your first big trip away), it would have been a point your son would kind of remember, but not something critical to his life that'd he'd always keep with him. It'd influence what you guys did in some alternative future depending on how wonderful the sunsets were/how awful the sea sickness was - you've basically missed out on something in a parallel universe that could have been amazing, or could have been horrendous. I guarantee you that even if you skip the cruise, having that time off to spend with your son (and maybe even your family) will be at least as good as what you could have had on that cruise - working to your own schedule, picking what you want, when you want, and with who you want, whilst just knowing that at least someone isn't vomiting at any point in time will have their charm.
Or you could see if a family member can buy your wife out (and get a ticket for their significant other, or switch for your double cabin). Just take the time to get away from everything and spend time with your son knowing that nothing work related is going to intervene. It'll be a nice bonding episode between your kid and the other relatives, if you bring babysitters. It won't be an escape from the divorce though, unless your folks are particularly good at not bringing this kind of thing up. But if it's something you really wanted to do yourself, then that might also be worth doing just so everything in your life isn't about the break up. Think back on it as that year you swum with the sharks/dolphins rather than that year when the paperwork was initially filed for the divorce.
If it were me, I'd see if ex-wife can't buy out your ticket (call it a loss on the kid's) and then just take the time. Same trip in two to three years will be life changing for the kid, rather than something dimly remembered and it won't be tainted by this shadow overhead. You're paying the money to get away, rather than to go see something, so just get away from it whilst you have the time and ignore the location.
Some time at home with the kid, with a pause put on the divorce as your ex is off on a cruise, might be money well spent.
I won't give you my advice for a first step, but it rhymes with lange the chocks.
Perhaps you should consider reading the rest, especially the moderator posts.
Anything you could get for the tickets would be better than trying to hold things together and go on a vacation with someone who doesn't want to be there.
You seem to be determined to just keep going like there's nothing really wrong in the hopes it all works out. Do you see a therapist? Does she? Have you brought up couple's counseling?
Seriously, talk to someone.
This suggests to me that you are still desperately hoping that the vacation will fix things, when in all probability it will be a series of fights when your kid will be trapped in the cabin with you. Not good.
If you won’t change your plans, just cancel and get the 30% back and take him to the local amusement park with it - he’ll be just as happy.
The vacation is a sunk cost. Just consider that money already gone and think about whether or not you'll actually have a good time on the vacation. Also consider that your vacation is around three months out and your current situation with your wife will most likely have changed by then. Specifically, you might end up sharing a cabin with someone you're in the middle of divorce proceedings with.
See I didn't realize this was a thing we were taking seriously as the truth.
I am? That's what she told me, and the blisters were there. And if she was going to lie, I'd think there would be more normal things to say? Not sure if the implication here is her lying or me.
Regarding the vacation, I didn't blank on the suggestions and I am not thinking it will "fix things." I mostly don't want to rob my son of the experience. It isn't our first big trip, that was to St. Croix for a week when he was 3 /12 - 4'ish.
Regarding emergency fund, my 401k has enough for about 7 months worth of expenses. Non-401k, maybe a couple of months?
Neither of us see a therapist now. I have brought up marriage counseling, without a lot of luck.
You need to talk to someone, even if she wont.
Man, I don't know how any story she tells you can be taken at face value anymore.
How well do you remember vacations from when you were his age? I doubt it's going to make a lot of difference. He's too young to snorkel or scuba, the only thing he's going to be able to do in the Bahamas is play on the beach, which you don't need the Bahamas for. But if you really want the cruise vacation (and I certainly wouldn't blame you for wanting an escape) don't take your wife, who may well be your ex-wife by then. Heck, take your dad and make it a grandfather/father/son male bonding experience!
Either she is telling the truth about the swing and all that, or she isn't and ended up all dirty and blistery from something else that she doesn't want to talk about.
Because if it doesn't really matter (why she didn't pick up the kid from preschool), it doesn't really matter if you've decided you're separating.
If you think she's acting weird, then probably she's acting weird especially if you think it's a phase. No win otherwise, you're either a dickhead who was right and a dickhead about it or just a dickhead who assumes the worst and fucked someone over for no reason - there's a third person involved who's going to get both sides of the story, regardless of how true either side is.
They'll most see through any bullshit, more or less - but will never be approaching things from just your side or with a perfect version of the facts, so if you start making things all about how your ex can't be trusted, they'll probably take her side on that point because they'll be defending something they think they know. If you don't pretend to know what was happening, they'll either tell you your version or admit that they don't know either, and you can deal with that as you may.
When it's not kid stuff, and there's legal grown up consequences - protect yourself, but day to day strangeness you just need to roll with. You're in a strange situation, things are stupid and strange - unless your planning something really permanent (sole custody, no visitation, she's cut free from family), then just let the madness slide. This won't end well, just be ready to make it the best it can be when it ends.
She has already offered to step out on the vacation and just have me and our son go. Working on that feeling right. I worry that he would just be confused the whole time why she wasn't there. And that I would want her there.
The lawyer responded saying the online submission thing can mean a lot of things, but isn't the same as actually filing. He said if I wasn't willing to file first and wanted to keep working on it, that's my choice, but that I needed to let him know the second I receive anything from her physically, in the mail, whatever.
I said screw it and asked her about it, outright. She said she wanted to see how the process works. It seems pretty clear that she hasn't consulted a lawyer. Not sure if that's good or bad.
As for lawyers - ask yourself is it over? Are things different now than they were before?
You don't seem convinced that this is just a mad weekend situation. If she's not recoiling from a separation/divorce then maybe continue the process - she'll be free and you'll have your son. Nothing stopping you from falling back in love - should the stars align and things be right.
From everything you say, she seems responsibly irresponsible. Raising a kid in this relationship is too much for her, but she's not going to want to cut all ties. If she can drift in and out whilst you do the day to day raising of the kid then that might work for her and her lawyer. Long as the door is open for the kid, you're probably free to set terms (given you'll be the real parent).
I think she's being sensible here. I'm sure you *do* want her to be there because you never wanted to split, but that's not going to happen. Making plans without her might help you accept this.
Little kids *can* deal with one of their parents not being there if they know they will see them again soon. Heck, my kid spent a week at Grandma's at 5 years old with no parents there and seemed very happy.
You could always offer to let her and your son go on their own, but she might want to take her new bloke and that would upset you. Stormy waters, there.
The really important thing is that you reframe it in your mind from "something I was supposed to do with my wife" to "something I get to do with my son."
That just broke my brain. Thank you. Seriously.
Also, watch what you say about anything- because I imagine he'll want to tell his mother about anything, and nine times out of ten he'll mention whatever you say because it was about her.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
I may be an idiot.
*shrug* Who knows. Self-judgement isn't useful right now. It's in everyone's best interest right now that things stay cordial between you two, but don't worry about that stuff at the expense of your own healing. Hell, even if everything were back to normal tomorrow (it probably won't be) you would need to focus on your own healing as a priority. This whole thing has been one big breech of trust, inside and out. You don't just get over that. A saint would need therapy. That's okay. Do yourself a favor and start sooner rather than later. You'll get through it.
Aside from that, maybe you could try to spend time (not money, time) with your kid. Read to him. Do puzzles with him. Take him to the park. Do your best to make sure that in the coming months he feels truly loved and attended to rather than forgotten. That's going to be important. Even if you can't believe it right now, you're going to have a life after this. Do whatever you need to do to get there more or less intact.
View the lawyer and counsellor not as tools you are hiring specifically to navigate a complicated event in the best interest of your son. You can absolutely choose not to view this combatively with your spouse, just focus with the lawyer on getting your son as much freedom and access to your money as possible. Distinguish between other people, such as your wife, having access to your money, and your son having access to your money through you.
This ain't no lie. And it goes for everything.
I eventually got my shit together but it was after a lot of pain and hardship because I trusted my ex wife not to fuck me over, and when I got collections calls from the electric company, AT&T, and all of these other companies I put under my name, I was in the hole a cool $10k all told.
I'm telling you to do this now before shit gets bad: If anything at that house is in her name, get it out of her name. It removes the responsibility from her to keep the accounts current and you won't get inundated with late charges, overdrafts (My ex pulled out of the bank account, didn't remove any names, and kept some of the bills that eventually went to collections auto collecting on this account until it was thousands in the hole, with my name on it), or any surprises at all.
It's surprisingly easy to entangle your life with someone else. What's not easy is untangling.
You mentioned seeing that she has possibly filed for divorce - before you do anything regarding finances and removing her from accounts, find out if 1. she for SURE filed and 2. if your county has a standing order (I remember you saying you were in Texas?). Standing orders expressly forbid removing people from accounts and things like that, and it doesn't matter if you haven't been served - if she filed, the standing order is in effect (if it exists). Call your attorney and ask about this - it is super important. My boss has filed an enforcement action for a client based on the standing order in our county and won a monetary judgment. In our county, it also forbids removing the child from the state of Texas without written agreement of the parties or a court order.
Guys, I know you're trying to help, but giving people advice about what to do about financial accounts in the event of a divorce is legal advice and you should seriously quit doing it for exactly this reason.
Do standing orders effect things outside of financial accounts/bank accounts?
He basically said the same thing - don't close any accounts, but start withdrawing what you can from your portion of contributed funds from each check moving forward that isn't needed for bill's, etc and set it aside.
What she submitted was apparently an online petition to file, not the same thing as filing. And apparently nothing has been done since then.
It's actually been fairly quiet the last couple of days. After we talked Sunday about the petition and some other things while it hasn't been normal, it has been normal'ish? Not real sure where things stand.
Plus, of the three of us (wife, son, me) I need things the least.
Yeah, if you don't take care of yourself you're not going to be in a good enough place to be there for your kid. If it helps, think of you going to therapy as helping you be stable for your child.
You are going to naturally have some big huge feelings and will need a place to express them that is healthy.
Or call the same number you call to get an appointment with a doctor or specialist and ask them to refer you to one.
Or, if neither of those pan out, googling "therapists in [place I live]" would probably get you off to a really good start. I just did it, and at least for my city, there are a bunch of easy results
Call your insurance. They will furnish a list of people in your area. Pick one. If you don't like them go see someone else.
but they're listening to every word I say