Welp good game everyone! So this should end at like +10ish Brits?
Edit: Forgot you get money before changing support so +15ish?
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Victory Check Phase
Not quite.
Supply Phase
- British pay 1 for Pennsylvania, 1 for Connecticut, let SC and Maryland clear.
- Patriots have to pay for or lose a militia in Pennsylvania (but I don't think it matters).
- Indian war parties abandon SC, Pennsylvania, and NY.
- French are fine.
Resources Phase
- British control 5 forts, 4 pop of cities, and the WI for +14.
- Patriots control 4 forts and 4 spaces for +6.
- Indians have 7 villages for +3.
- French have FN1 and 3 pop of cities for +4.
Support Phase
British spend:
- 3 in PA - 1 to remove the Raid, 2 for the max of two shifts.
- 2 in Connecticut
- 2 in Boston
- 1 in Quebec City
- 1 in Norfolk
- 2 in Savannah
Ouch. Talk about a fall from earlier turns. Good game all.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Good game all. Had I taken that final limited command and moved into North Carolina, I could have funded opposition there to make it 22 support to 19 opposition -- that would have at least made the final numbers closer.
So any opinions on what turned that game? Just felt like slowly the British took over the South. At least as the Indians @admanb turning SC to Maryland into active support really cramped my expansion plans. It meant I would've need to spend resources raiding Support colonies, resources I didn't have and in the end might've just ended helping the Patriots win instead of an Indian victory.
Edit: I'm not sure how it felt from the Patriots side, but going after Patriot forts felt important but also really hard. Couldn't touch city forts at all and it took multiple Commands + SA to take down Province forts. I think I needed to set up my war parties better so I could Scout the British forces into French ambushes.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Good game all. Had I taken that final limited command and moved into North Carolina, I could have funded opposition there to make it 22 support to 19 opposition -- that would have at least made the final numbers closer.
It was definitely closer than the final results looked.
It's interesting that this game played out with the rebellion side having a dangerous early-middle game but the government side ending strong. COIN designs tend to be the opposite, but I'm not sure if LoD is the exception or if it was just how we played*.
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
I think I now see the outlines for what the winning strategies for the British, French, and Patriots. I'm still not entirely sure how the Natives take victory unless it's by default due to the other three factions battling to a standstill.
I also suspect Naval Superiority & control of the West Indies makes a huge difference in determining whether the Royalists or the Rebellion takes the lead, which makes thematic sense but leaves both the Patriots and Natives largely at the mercy of the other two powers (which is, I suppose, again thematically sensible) to determine the general flow of the game.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
In my opinion the big turning point was around cards 22-24 when the French were forced to take their huge New York army and march it across land, which allowed me to harass and severely weaken it before it was even able to engage in open battle. I think at the time both the rebellion players (and I could be wrong!) were still in "win it for myself" mode, but they needed to coordinate better. Had the French been able to push into NYC with Patriot backup or had the Patriots taken Boston so the French could sail there way to the south I think that would've put the rebellion side in a much better position than the resulting weakened French army attacking Philadelphia.
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
edited October 2018
I'm not blaming TheColonel -- the card order acted against them in some tough ways -- but I think part of the reason our late game petered out in part because the French ended up being largely ineffectual those last two rounds. Giving the British an extra 5 resources each winter *and* not slowing down their expansion with well-placed blockades made it difficult for the patriots to keep pace.
Edit: admanb has a good point that I should have stationed a unit in Boston to give the French army more mobility.
I think I now see the outlines for what the winning strategies for the British, French, and Patriots. I'm still not entirely sure how the Natives take victory unless it's by default due to the other three factions battling to a standstill.
I also suspect Naval Superiority & control of the West Indies makes a huge difference in determining whether the Royalists or the Rebellion takes the lead, which makes thematic sense but leaves both the Patriots and Natives largely at the mercy of the other two powers (which is, I suppose, again thematically sensible) to determine the general flow of the game.
I think maybe I had to Scout British forces into bad positions? I do think Natives win a very passive game, since gathering is so resource efficient. But I missed the "Passive" requirement to build villages until the British had all the population in active support. Also had to be better in my movement, I wasted a few March actions do to WQ.
I think I now see the outlines for what the winning strategies for the British, French, and Patriots. I'm still not entirely sure how the Natives take victory unless it's by default due to the other three factions battling to a standstill.
I also suspect Naval Superiority & control of the West Indies makes a huge difference in determining whether the Royalists or the Rebellion takes the lead, which makes thematic sense but leaves both the Patriots and Natives largely at the mercy of the other two powers (which is, I suppose, again thematically sensible) to determine the general flow of the game.
Swinging the West Indies was huge. It can't always be done but being able to take a LC off to martial a Fort there seems like a really good British play.
I do wonder if the French should wait to jump into the war until they've pushed all their cubes to available. It feels like they need to marshal 8 to the mainland to have a substantial force, which doesn't leave them anything to reinforce the Indies if the British commit there.
I agree, I think the rush to get into the war is potentially not the best play for the French. Take those early turns to get all of your pieces and squadrons available for use.
Also where were all the Tories hiding? I needed those green corpses to start piling up, but they were, smartly, missing from most engagement. I think if the Rebels could've forced the fights the could've forced the engagements to happen with more Tories around.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
One thing I was thinking is that playing PbP feels like it hurts when you need to negotiate and coordinate. I feel like a face-to-face game would've resulted in Hedgethorn and TheColonel talking through the midgame more, and they could've negotiated a war strategy that kept both of them more in the game. The Patriots obviously don't want the French getting too far ahead in casualties, but it's also bad for them if the British do!
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure I agree that the French should wait to enter the war, if only because it costs a special activity to move units to available either before or after the french are in the war. The only real difference is that the French have a wider area of possible commands after the Treaty is played. I just don't see what they gain by waiting, except keeping *both* sides from getting the West Indies resources.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Also where were all the Tories hiding? I needed those green corpses to start piling up, but they were, smartly, missing from most engagement. I think if the Rebels could've forced the fights the could've forced the engagements to happen with more Tories around.
After seeing British casualties balloon in my first few games I've been real paranoid about mustering Tories, period, and into potential battles especially. During the early-midgame I think I was actually too paranoid and it nearly caused an instant win, but ultimately I think careful Tory mustering is vital for the British.
I'm not blaming TheColonel -- the card order acted against them in some tough ways -- but I think part of the reason our late game petered out in part because the French ended up being largely ineffectual those last two rounds. Giving the British an extra 5 resources each winter *and* not slowing down their expansion with well-placed blockades made it difficult for the patriots to keep pace.
Edit: admanb has a good point that I should have stationed a unit in Boston to give the French army more mobility.
I agree that there were some big moments when the cards swung in Royalist favor and helped reverse the early bleeding.
I'm not blaming TheColonel -- the card order acted against them in some tough ways -- but I think part of the reason our late game petered out in part because the French ended up being largely ineffectual those last two rounds. Giving the British an extra 5 resources each winter *and* not slowing down their expansion with well-placed blockades made it difficult for the patriots to keep pace.
Edit: admanb has a good point that I should have stationed a unit in Boston to give the French army more mobility.
I agree that there were some big moments when the cards swung in Royalist favor and helped reverse the early bleeding.
I think we all had strings of consecutive "last to act", but the French string had particularity painful timing.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm not sure I agree that the French should wait to enter the war, if only because it costs a special activity to move units to available either before or after the french are in the war. The only real difference is that the French have a wider area of possible commands after the Treaty is played. I just don't see what they gain by waiting, except keeping *both* sides from getting the West Indies resources.
That's true, though I wouldn't underestimate the value of the ToA Brilliant Stroke on its own. I don't think you lose a ton by saving it to interrupt a big British play or event card.
Posts
Edit: Forgot you get money before changing support so +15ish?
Not quite.
Supply Phase
- British pay 1 for Pennsylvania, 1 for Connecticut, let SC and Maryland clear.
- Patriots have to pay for or lose a militia in Pennsylvania (but I don't think it matters).
- Indian war parties abandon SC, Pennsylvania, and NY.
- French are fine.
Resources Phase
- British control 5 forts, 4 pop of cities, and the WI for +14.
- Patriots control 4 forts and 4 spaces for +6.
- Indians have 7 villages for +3.
- French have FN1 and 3 pop of cities for +4.
Support Phase
British spend:
- 3 in PA - 1 to remove the Raid, 2 for the max of two shifts.
- 2 in Connecticut
- 2 in Boston
- 1 in Quebec City
- 1 in Norfolk
- 2 in Savannah
Putting them at 5 resources and 24 to 15 support.
British: +13
Indians: +7
Patriots: -7
French: -13
Edit: I'm not sure how it felt from the Patriots side, but going after Patriot forts felt important but also really hard. Couldn't touch city forts at all and it took multiple Commands + SA to take down Province forts. I think I needed to set up my war parties better so I could Scout the British forces into French ambushes.
It was definitely closer than the final results looked.
It's interesting that this game played out with the rebellion side having a dangerous early-middle game but the government side ending strong. COIN designs tend to be the opposite, but I'm not sure if LoD is the exception or if it was just how we played*.
I also suspect Naval Superiority & control of the West Indies makes a huge difference in determining whether the Royalists or the Rebellion takes the lead, which makes thematic sense but leaves both the Patriots and Natives largely at the mercy of the other two powers (which is, I suppose, again thematically sensible) to determine the general flow of the game.
Edit: admanb has a good point that I should have stationed a unit in Boston to give the French army more mobility.
I think maybe I had to Scout British forces into bad positions? I do think Natives win a very passive game, since gathering is so resource efficient. But I missed the "Passive" requirement to build villages until the British had all the population in active support. Also had to be better in my movement, I wasted a few March actions do to WQ.
Swinging the West Indies was huge. It can't always be done but being able to take a LC off to martial a Fort there seems like a really good British play.
I do wonder if the French should wait to jump into the war until they've pushed all their cubes to available. It feels like they need to marshal 8 to the mainland to have a substantial force, which doesn't leave them anything to reinforce the Indies if the British commit there.
After seeing British casualties balloon in my first few games I've been real paranoid about mustering Tories, period, and into potential battles especially. During the early-midgame I think I was actually too paranoid and it nearly caused an instant win, but ultimately I think careful Tory mustering is vital for the British.
I agree that there were some big moments when the cards swung in Royalist favor and helped reverse the early bleeding.
I think we all had strings of consecutive "last to act", but the French string had particularity painful timing.
That's true, though I wouldn't underestimate the value of the ToA Brilliant Stroke on its own. I don't think you lose a ton by saving it to interrupt a big British play or event card.