That's why I enjoy Lawful Masses, for his cutting edge legal analysis. :razz:
I used to enjoy Leonard, than after a mass shooting (don't remember which one), he went on a spiel about how we should not make new gun regulations after a mass shooting and how he enjoys shooting as a hobby and please don't take his guns away.
After that, i unsubscribed and stopped watching.
For the first three questions, who knows? It doesn't change the fact that he has the right to pursue this claim.
However, there is absolutely nothing in the law that even suggests it is meant to be only used by people who feel they were duped or that a deal was made in bad faith.
edit- This certainly applies to US Courts and probably just about any Court in the developed world, but Courts don't care how morally wrong (edit- or right for that matter) someone is. You can be thoroughly detestable and clearly motivated by self-serving desires, all that matters is the letter of the law.
Which is ultimately a good thing, but can lead to some gross ass rulings.
Laws are modified by other laws, laws require judgement to interpret, arguments on the rightness and fairness of the issue often sway judges and juries.
And as was earlier pointed out "may request the court".
I'm not polish, lawyer or otherwise, i don't speak or read polish, legalese or otherwise.
Until someone with more information can chime up on this, i shall remain sceptical on the merits of the case.
That's why I enjoy Lawful Masses, for his cutting edge legal analysis. :razz:
I used to enjoy Leonard, than after a mass shooting (don't remember which one), he went on a spiel about how we should not make new gun regulations after a mass shooting and how he enjoys shooting as a hobby and please don't take his guns away.
After that, i unsubscribed and stopped watching.
For the first three questions, who knows? It doesn't change the fact that he has the right to pursue this claim.
However, there is absolutely nothing in the law that even suggests it is meant to be only used by people who feel they were duped or that a deal was made in bad faith.
edit- This certainly applies to US Courts and probably just about any Court in the developed world, but Courts don't care how morally wrong (edit- or right for that matter) someone is. You can be thoroughly detestable and clearly motivated by self-serving desires, all that matters is the letter of the law.
Which is ultimately a good thing, but can lead to some gross ass rulings.
Laws are modified by other laws, laws require judgement to interpret, arguments on the rightness and fairness of the issue often sway judges and juries.
And as was earlier pointed out "may request the court".
I'm not polish, lawyer or otherwise, i don't speak or read polish, legalese or otherwise.
Until someone with more information can chime up on this, i shall remain sceptical on the merits of the case.
I can promise this is so totally not true. I really, really, really wish it was sometimes, but it is not the case.
If this was the case then George Zimmerman would be in prison, Harmony Gold would have lost the rights to Robotech decades ago, Content Creators wouldn't be at the mercy of Youtube, that Colorado baker would have been forced to sell cakes to everyone, and so on and so on.
And I'm not saying he has the right to win, just that he has the right to try to win. I doubt his lawyers would take the case if they didn't think he had any legal claims .
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
The rightness or fairness of something should definitely definitely definitely not sway a judge because a judge is very specifically supposed to be completely impartial and simply an arbiter of the law (as written and interpreted through precedent). Only the appeals circuit should ever be considering an interpretation.
Juries, yeah, that's the issue with trial by jury: you can convince people of lots of bullshit.
Laws are not math equations.
Fair and just (and reasonable) interpretation do have a place in court.
I don't mean you can just overturn a law because it is unfair (well, not usually), but that does not make the concepts irrelevant in court.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
You really do not want trial judges interpreting the law in court. That's why we have the appeals circuits.
i think there is a good possibility there might be some interesting stuff in cyberpunk simply because a lot of what ends up being a games "treatment" of different subject matter is often confined to very small, individual parts handled by individual or small groups of writers. for example, there might be a single trans character who is read as what the game is saying about trans issues in general - and cdpr has a bunch of different writers, many of whom likely have quite different political views to each other. depending on who does it, how its handled, what kind of editorial force is used all kinds of things could pop out
Like any other literary genre, what people want in cyberpunk can vary. I have to imagine that Cyberpunk 2077, based on an American property and made for an international but particularly American audience will be a bit different from The Witcher 3, based on a Polish novel, itself different from the first game in the series, made for a Polish and European audience.
It's sort of how I've noticed, quite naturally, among American viewers of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, there's a pretty low level of interest in issues of Japanese civil law, nationality, nationhood and 20th century history--which are all pretty major pillars of the plot in both seasons. Some people on the forums felt that these were letdowns from what should have been a greater focus on transhumanism, on changing sexual identity--which are still in the series, just examined as strongly as they might've liked (there's still time spent looking at cyborg sexuality and gender identity, but Kusanagi's origins are eventually hammered out quite clearly). It's understandable that among an American audience, you might find people who are a lot less interested in Japanese intergovernmental politics and postwar political history and a lot more interested in technological fluidity of gender and transhuman sexuality), but the first season in particular was written for a Japanese audience first and foremost whom, unsurprisingly, would think a lot about their own history and politics.
Cyberpunk 2077 is, as said, written for a primarily though not exclusively western, English-speaking audience (because that is biggest single language market for this kind of game in all likelihood), and then for other European markets after that, and then Japan after that, on top of being based however distantly on an American property. CDPR, like any company, will have their writing teams directed as such. But it's possible some more uniquely "hometown" (Warsaw, apparently?) elements will make it into the writing all the same. God knows plenty of American games are still very American when they get regional releases in Japan and elsewhere, though naturally the development was different.
You really do not want trial judges interpreting the law in court. That's why we have the appeals circuits.
Why even have judges then?
You have to interpret laws, they are not simple ikea instructions.
Yes, they do usually interpret according to precedent, but someone always has to set the precedent, and it usually is a trial judge who sets the first precedent (and then gets either overturned or upheld by appeals circuit).
Looking forward to the sidequest in 2077 where you help a disenfranchised author insert a small hack module into a megacorp's network so he can be fairly compensated for his old work, only for you to discover that he's actually trying to sabotage the entire company as revenge when he failed to accept their reasonable offer many years ago.
And of course you'd only get to that point if you decided not help him thru the courts. If you go that route, be sure to pickup a LexisNexis implant.
i think there is a good possibility there might be some interesting stuff in cyberpunk simply because a lot of what ends up being a games "treatment" of different subject matter is often confined to very small, individual parts handled by individual or small groups of writers. for example, there might be a single trans character who is read as what the game is saying about trans issues in general - and cdpr has a bunch of different writers, many of whom likely have quite different political views to each other. depending on who does it, how its handled, what kind of editorial force is used all kinds of things could pop out
Like any other literary genre, what people want in cyberpunk can vary. I have to imagine that Cyberpunk 2077, based on an American property and made for an international but particularly American audience will be a bit different from The Witcher 3, based on a Polish novel, itself different from the first game in the series, made for a Polish and European audience.
It's sort of how I've noticed, quite naturally, among American viewers of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, there's a pretty low level of interest in issues of Japanese civil law, nationality, nationhood and 20th century history--which are all pretty major pillars of the plot in both seasons. Some people on the forums felt that these were letdowns from what should have been a greater focus on transhumanism, on changing sexual identity--which are still in the series, just examined as strongly as they might've liked (there's still time spent looking at cyborg sexuality and gender identity, but Kusanagi's origins are eventually hammered out quite clearly). It's understandable that among an American audience, you might find people who are a lot less interested in Japanese intergovernmental politics and postwar political history and a lot more interested in technological fluidity of gender and transhuman sexuality), but the first season in particular was written for a Japanese audience first and foremost whom, unsurprisingly, would think a lot about their own history and politics.
Cyberpunk 2077 is, as said, written for a primarily though not exclusively western, English-speaking audience (because that is biggest single language market for this kind of game in all likelihood), and then for other European markets after that, and then Japan after that, on top of being based however distantly on an American property. CDPR, like any company, will have their writing teams directed as such. But it's possible some more uniquely "hometown" (Warsaw, apparently?) elements will make it into the writing all the same. God knows plenty of American games are still very American when they get regional releases in Japan and elsewhere, though naturally the development was different.
yeah im also slightly uneasy about how the reactionary nature of some elements of polish culture are interpreted abroad in the sense that its often read as a sign of a monolithic cultural value that is simply all present, rather than being as representative of the values of any given (especially younger) person as say trump being president about americans. there are plenty of lgbt organisations in poland, ongoing struggles for trans rights etc. even the supreme court doesnt always rule as you would expect eg
this is not to say they dont have problems or are suffering from a particular reactionary cultural thread that is running through eastern europe more broadly but u no
cdpr is full of young Extremely Online english-speaking people. i would expect them to be substantially less reactionary than the population at large
Some of the Cyberpunk 2077 press kit images are showing up in ads and stories. Lots of T&A seems like.
As much as I was pumped for this, I'm definitely going to pass on a pre order and see how it ends up coming out. Looks more and more like it's not going to align with what I want to see from Cyberpunk.
Some of the Cyberpunk 2077 press kit images are showing up in ads and stories. Lots of T&A seems like.
As much as I was pumped for this, I'm definitely going to pass on a pre order and see how it ends up coming out. Looks more and more like it's not going to align with what I want to see from Cyberpunk.
Nudity is not bad
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Context is everything in well... everything.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
While I'm sure we're not going back to Witcher 1 days. I don't expect CD project to fondle American sensibilities. Giving Japan's view on Western religions for example, Id probably never play another Final Fantasy game if that were the case. That said, it's an individual choice.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It should be noted that just because you have a right to pursue a suit, it doesn't mean you'll win
While I'm sure we're not going back to Witcher 1 days. I don't expect CD project to fondle American sensibilities. Giving Japan's view on Western religions for example, Id probably never play another Final Fantasy game if that were the case. That said, it's an individual choice.
Don't think it's about fondling american sensibilities.
I don't think american sensibilities is even relevant in context, considering the shit Hollywood keeps shitting out.
This is about hoping that Cyberpunk 2077 would live up to its potential, or atleast not completely fail it, when it comes to gender, sexuality and acceptance of the people not white straight cismen.
Some of the Cyberpunk 2077 press kit images are showing up in ads and stories. Lots of T&A seems like.
As much as I was pumped for this, I'm definitely going to pass on a pre order and see how it ends up coming out. Looks more and more like it's not going to align with what I want to see from Cyberpunk.
Nudity is not bad
In general, though, T&A is usually specifically female nudity (the abbreviation's first letter rarely refers to manboobs), and at that point it's at least up for debate whether there's an issue.
Unless T&A has been redefined and the T may refer to testicles as much as to tits.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Some of the Cyberpunk 2077 press kit images are showing up in ads and stories. Lots of T&A seems like.
As much as I was pumped for this, I'm definitely going to pass on a pre order and see how it ends up coming out. Looks more and more like it's not going to align with what I want to see from Cyberpunk.
Nudity is not bad
In general, though, T&A is usually specifically female nudity (the abbreviation's first letter rarely refers to manboobs), and at that point it's at least up for debate whether there's an issue.
Unless T&A has been redefined and the T may refer to testicles as much as to tits.
So, here's some further perspective from someone who works in the science fiction and fantasy books industry (Harlan Ellison once said that I was a very intelligent young person and he enjoyed our conversation >>; )...
I think there's a bunch of things going on with Sapkowski. Specifically, I think he comes from a particular school of SF&F writers who have a bit of an over-inflated opinion of their work and who simultaneously see any adaptation as Bad Wrong Not My Vision *and* as a chance for a cheap cash grab. Harlan was one of these, rather notoriously. Furthermore, it really wasn't stupid to assume that the game franchise would never take off -- I literally cannot think of another fantasy or sci-fi video game based on a book that wasn't already an international super-franchise in other ways (LotR, Harry Potter) that has gotten THIS level of success. But he was also insanely stupid because listen, literally every SF&F author I know has always told me to tAKE ROYALTIES WHEN OFFERED. Hell, one of the big Problems in the freelance tabletop RPG industry is that 99% of that industry DOES NOT offer royalties. I still cherish the $0.05 royalty I once got for an anthology I edited, dammit.
The problem isn't JUST that he made a mistake though -- it's that throughout the process he's acted in bad faith and like a big primadonna. Again, like Harlan Ellison. He's trash talked the games from the beginning. It'd be one thing if he just said, "eh, they're pretty different from my books in some ways and not to my taste," but he actively gets angry that his books have a new audience because Vidya Games. It's the sort of gatekeepy garbage I have to put up with at old school sci fi conventions, where if I don't prove that Yes Dammit I've Read XYZ, I Know More About The History of This Fandom Than You Do Pal, I'm instantly dismissed as DEM KIDZ. Fuck, example: at an old school sf convention in Boston (started in 1941 or so!), there was a "teen & youth lounge" which was for anyone under the age of 35. And not done in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge way, this was 100% serious with the idea that 35 year olds are Too Young for our Serious Sci Fi Fandom. Which is the kinda person this guy strikes me as.
And let me tell you, NOBODY I've met who discovered the books thanks to the games thinks the games came first! So what if people found your books because of a game; they FOUND YOUR BOOKS.
TL;DR -- while I am always all for people getting money from their IPs, it seems to me that Sapkowski has an over-inflated ego and is being a bit silly about this. Esp since like... I almost imagine if he'd just gone to CDPR and gone "Hey, I screwed up. Can we re-negotiate?" it would have been fine, but he strikes me as the type to go "I, Important Fantasy Author, Deign to Negotiate with These Young Kids and their Video Game Thingy?"
So, here's some further perspective from someone who works in the science fiction and fantasy books industry (Harlan Ellison once said that I was a very intelligent young person and he enjoyed our conversation >>; )...
I think there's a bunch of things going on with Sapkowski. Specifically, I think he comes from a particular school of SF&F writers who have a bit of an over-inflated opinion of their work and who simultaneously see any adaptation as Bad Wrong Not My Vision *and* as a chance for a cheap cash grab. Harlan was one of these, rather notoriously. Furthermore, it really wasn't stupid to assume that the game franchise would never take off -- I literally cannot think of another fantasy or sci-fi video game based on a book that wasn't already an international super-franchise in other ways (LotR, Harry Potter) that has gotten THIS level of success. But he was also insanely stupid because listen, literally every SF&F author I know has always told me to tAKE ROYALTIES WHEN OFFERED. Hell, one of the big Problems in the freelance tabletop RPG industry is that 99% of that industry DOES NOT offer royalties. I still cherish the $0.05 royalty I once got for an anthology I edited, dammit.
The problem isn't JUST that he made a mistake though -- it's that throughout the process he's acted in bad faith and like a big primadonna. Again, like Harlan Ellison. He's trash talked the games from the beginning. It'd be one thing if he just said, "eh, they're pretty different from my books in some ways and not to my taste," but he actively gets angry that his books have a new audience because Vidya Games. It's the sort of gatekeepy garbage I have to put up with at old school sci fi conventions, where if I don't prove that Yes Dammit I've Read XYZ, I Know More About The History of This Fandom Than You Do Pal, I'm instantly dismissed as DEM KIDZ. Fuck, example: at an old school sf convention in Boston (started in 1941 or so!), there was a "teen & youth lounge" which was for anyone under the age of 35. And not done in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge way, this was 100% serious with the idea that 35 year olds are Too Young for our Serious Sci Fi Fandom. Which is the kinda person this guy strikes me as.
And let me tell you, NOBODY I've met who discovered the books thanks to the games thinks the games came first! So what if people found your books because of a game; they FOUND YOUR BOOKS.
TL;DR -- while I am always all for people getting money from their IPs, it seems to me that Sapkowski has an over-inflated ego and is being a bit silly about this. Esp since like... I almost imagine if he'd just gone to CDPR and gone "Hey, I screwed up. Can we re-negotiate?" it would have been fine, but he strikes me as the type to go "I, Important Fantasy Author, Deign to Negotiate with These Young Kids and their Video Game Thingy?"
Doesn't Sapkowski also have the thing where, at least in his own head, his books are Serious Polish Literature and not genre fiction? I can see that mixing poorly with the reality where the video games have more international respect and recognition than his novels.
Brandon Sanderson(author of Mistborn) chimed in with his own opinion on the Reddit thread about the legal dispute, saying that he would jump at the chance to work with CDPR if given the opportunity.
You guys might find this amusing. I read this threat last night at about 3:00, and came REALLY close to posting, "Dear CD Projekt. You can have the Mistborn rights, if you want them..." But this was looking like it would explode as a thread, and I REALLY didn't want to wake up to several hundred replies in my inbox. I have work to do today...
In all seriousness, I'd love to do something with CDPR. They've made by far the best book-to-video game adaptations ever. It's the sort of thing the rest of us salivate over--if for the simple reason that the entire genre (books, film, and games) benefit from something high-quality on the market like the Witcher games.
I would seriously consider giving CD Project Red the rights to my books for free, because the overall cultural impact that a great story adaptation can have is enormous. Though...I suspect they're done dealing with self-important fantasy authors, and are likely more interested in creating their own new IPs.
Truthfully, the two IPs they were invested in were ones that were really hot shit in Poland. So if you can find another IP really popular there that they could work out, they might do it.
But yeah, after Cyberpunk, they might finally see what their writers and directors can come up with as original, instead of piggy backing on someone else's good work. Good work that they love and treat with respect, but still not their work.
Brandon Sanderson(author of Mistborn) chimed in with his own opinion on the Reddit thread about the legal dispute, saying that he would jump at the chance to work with CDPR if given the opportunity.
You guys might find this amusing. I read this threat last night at about 3:00, and came REALLY close to posting, "Dear CD Projekt. You can have the Mistborn rights, if you want them..." But this was looking like it would explode as a thread, and I REALLY didn't want to wake up to several hundred replies in my inbox. I have work to do today...
In all seriousness, I'd love to do something with CDPR. They've made by far the best book-to-video game adaptations ever. It's the sort of thing the rest of us salivate over--if for the simple reason that the entire genre (books, film, and games) benefit from something high-quality on the market like the Witcher games.
I would seriously consider giving CD Project Red the rights to my books for free, because the overall cultural impact that a great story adaptation can have is enormous. Though...I suspect they're done dealing with self-important fantasy authors, and are likely more interested in creating their own new IPs.
Brandon Sanderson was also actively involved in the design of and wrote a large chunk of the asides for the Mistborn RPG. So it's not too surprising the dude would be down for games of his settings.
Which I'd 100% take because the Mistborn trilogy are my personal LOTR style nerd bible as far as fantasy stuff goes.
Brandon Sanderson(author of Mistborn) chimed in with his own opinion on the Reddit thread about the legal dispute, saying that he would jump at the chance to work with CDPR if given the opportunity.
You guys might find this amusing. I read this threat last night at about 3:00, and came REALLY close to posting, "Dear CD Projekt. You can have the Mistborn rights, if you want them..." But this was looking like it would explode as a thread, and I REALLY didn't want to wake up to several hundred replies in my inbox. I have work to do today...
In all seriousness, I'd love to do something with CDPR. They've made by far the best book-to-video game adaptations ever. It's the sort of thing the rest of us salivate over--if for the simple reason that the entire genre (books, film, and games) benefit from something high-quality on the market like the Witcher games.
I would seriously consider giving CD Project Red the rights to my books for free, because the overall cultural impact that a great story adaptation can have is enormous. Though...I suspect they're done dealing with self-important fantasy authors, and are likely more interested in creating their own new IPs.
Brandon Sanderson was also actively involved in the design of and wrote a large chunk of the asides for the Mistborn RPG. So it's not too surprising the dude would be down for games of his settings.
Which I'd 100% take because the Mistborn trilogy are my personal LOTR style nerd bible as far as fantasy stuff goes.
I started and finished every Mistborn book a couple of weeks ago, and yeah they're pretty great and I'd love to see some games set in that world
The author’s lawyers are basing this demand on Polish law, specifically the Act on Copyright and Related Rights. They argue that this law “may be invoked when the compensation remitted to the author is too low given the benefits obtained in association with the use of that author’s work.” In other words: The Witcher series has made millions and millions and millions. And Sapkowski hasn’t seen those millions.
From here.
Which seems to pretty obviously rewarding demanding cash up front since the option of demanding a cut of the profits later will always be there.
Of course internet gaming site legal analysis might not be the best there is.
It's not a bad law, though. One of the reasons that so many of the African American musicians ended up either in poverty or touring until they died of old age was that while their music made someone millions and millions, their contracts were written to make sure it wasn't them.
Unfortunately that's not how the law is being used in this instance.
They are using the law correctly though.
Correctly here means; did the person you sold rights to make 3x more than they paid you for the rights? If yes, then they are in the wrong.
Edit- which I gotta say that law sounds like the most insane thing to me.
I think you are misunderstanding something here.
What I seem to remember someone saying in some youtube video was a factor of 3.
That means 10 to the 3rd degree.
It's always wonderful to read and hear americans being open to running a country in any other way than the usa is.
Your current political situation is clearly prof that it can't be done any better.
Is it really that bad having as part of copyright law that if someone is makeing more that 1000 times the money off of an idea you came up with, maybe the original licence contract was a bit unfair?
You could include a one promille royalty payout of profits as an insurance against being sued if your licenced product takes off.
Now, the letter send to CDPR very much sound like a veiled threat so it's very possible the actual process of using the law to get a payout is uncertain.
It was a veiled threat and stupid shit like this means no more Witcher stuff. So yay I guess for a law that doesn't even apply here because his ideas does not equal the games. I suppose we weren't getting ant more anyway probably, but this really kills it.
Hopefully Cyberpunk takes off and is awesome and they continue that and pick up Mistborn.
It was a veiled threat and stupid shit like this means no more Witcher stuff. So yay I guess for a law that doesn't even apply here because his ideas does not equal the games. I suppose we weren't getting ant more anyway probably, but this really kills it.
Hopefully Cyberpunk takes off and is awesome and they continue that and pick up Mistborn.
Please explain how this is going to stop more games? Also here? I’m so confused by your statement.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The author’s lawyers are basing this demand on Polish law, specifically the Act on Copyright and Related Rights. They argue that this law “may be invoked when the compensation remitted to the author is too low given the benefits obtained in association with the use of that author’s work.” In other words: The Witcher series has made millions and millions and millions. And Sapkowski hasn’t seen those millions.
From here.
Which seems to pretty obviously rewarding demanding cash up front since the option of demanding a cut of the profits later will always be there.
Of course internet gaming site legal analysis might not be the best there is.
It's not a bad law, though. One of the reasons that so many of the African American musicians ended up either in poverty or touring until they died of old age was that while their music made someone millions and millions, their contracts were written to make sure it wasn't them.
Unfortunately that's not how the law is being used in this instance.
They are using the law correctly though.
Correctly here means; did the person you sold rights to make 3x more than they paid you for the rights? If yes, then they are in the wrong.
Edit- which I gotta say that law sounds like the most insane thing to me.
I think you are misunderstanding something here.
What I seem to remember someone saying in some youtube video was a factor of 3.
That means 10 to the 3rd degree.
It's always wonderful to read and hear americans being open to running a country in any other way than the usa is.
Your current political situation is clearly prof that it can't be done any better.
Is it really that bad having as part of copyright law that if someone is makeing more that 1000 times the money off of an idea you came up with, maybe the original licence contract was a bit unfair?
You could include a one promille royalty payout of profits as an insurance against being sued if your licenced product takes off.
Now, the letter send to CDPR very much sound like a veiled threat so it's very possible the actual process of using the law to get a payout is uncertain.
On the one hand, the guy had the chance to take royalties and didn't. "I changed my mind" to the tune of 16 million dollars is one hell of an impact on the company, especially when the projects that made all that money came from the hands of dozens or hundreds of other people. Yes, the author may have come up with the original setting but just in sheer man-hours, the amount of work he put into Witcher is nothing compared to the man-hours put it into the games.
On the other hand, IP creators seem to pretty habitually get the short end of the stick when it comes to their properties. If the guy was hurting for cash, taking the immediate payout was likely something he didn't have much choice on anyway. Even if he wasn't hurting for cash, the guy is a writer, not an accountant. I can't really hold it against him for not understanding the potential magnitude of what he was passing up, or being in a position where having a decent payout immediately seems a lot more useful than a potential large payout later on.
Having IP law require a mandatory royalty payout for the original content creator past a certain reasonable point of earnings doesn't seem at all crazy to me. Then companies can't take advantage of content creators who are in financial straights or are not well-versed in financial matters, and people making unique content don't have to be legal or financial experts to make sure that licensing the rights to their IP is proportionally rewarded.
EDIT: A quick Google check puts the earnings for Witcher 3 alone at around 170 million dollars, after development costs. Yeah, I don't really begrudge the guy getting an actual solid piece of that as a matter of law.
The author’s lawyers are basing this demand on Polish law, specifically the Act on Copyright and Related Rights. They argue that this law “may be invoked when the compensation remitted to the author is too low given the benefits obtained in association with the use of that author’s work.” In other words: The Witcher series has made millions and millions and millions. And Sapkowski hasn’t seen those millions.
From here.
Which seems to pretty obviously rewarding demanding cash up front since the option of demanding a cut of the profits later will always be there.
Of course internet gaming site legal analysis might not be the best there is.
It's not a bad law, though. One of the reasons that so many of the African American musicians ended up either in poverty or touring until they died of old age was that while their music made someone millions and millions, their contracts were written to make sure it wasn't them.
Unfortunately that's not how the law is being used in this instance.
They are using the law correctly though.
Correctly here means; did the person you sold rights to make 3x more than they paid you for the rights? If yes, then they are in the wrong.
Edit- which I gotta say that law sounds like the most insane thing to me.
I think you are misunderstanding something here.
What I seem to remember someone saying in some youtube video was a factor of 3.
That means 10 to the 3rd degree.
It's always wonderful to read and hear americans being open to running a country in any other way than the usa is.
Your current political situation is clearly prof that it can't be done any better.
Is it really that bad having as part of copyright law that if someone is makeing more that 1000 times the money off of an idea you came up with, maybe the original licence contract was a bit unfair?
You could include a one promille royalty payout of profits as an insurance against being sued if your licenced product takes off.
Now, the letter send to CDPR very much sound like a veiled threat so it's very possible the actual process of using the law to get a payout is uncertain.
That's not what "a factor of" means, it does just mean 3x in this case. You're thinking of "order of magnitude" which deals with the power law you describe.
Personally I like the laws intent, but perhaps the factor seems a bit egregious. I wonder how muhh leway a judge has enforcing it in Poland. Pretty sure they work on case law...?
It was a veiled threat and stupid shit like this means no more Witcher stuff. So yay I guess for a law that doesn't even apply here because his ideas does not equal the games. I suppose we weren't getting ant more anyway probably, but this really kills it.
Hopefully Cyberpunk takes off and is awesome and they continue that and pick up Mistborn.
Please explain how this is going to stop more games? Also here? I’m so confused by your statement.
People don't like getting sued? I mean in 20 years they may try again, but you think someone is going to look at this and think "Hot damn, we need to make a Witcher game!" any time soon?
It was a veiled threat and stupid shit like this means no more Witcher stuff. So yay I guess for a law that doesn't even apply here because his ideas does not equal the games. I suppose we weren't getting ant more anyway probably, but this really kills it.
Hopefully Cyberpunk takes off and is awesome and they continue that and pick up Mistborn.
Please explain how this is going to stop more games? Also here? I’m so confused by your statement.
People don't like getting sued? I mean in 20 years they may try again, but you think someone is going to look at this and think "Hot damn, we need to make a Witcher game!" any time soon?
But they're already getting sued. However it shakes out, that threat has come and gone.
If it's ruled that they do owe $ridiculous royalties and will continue to owe them in the future, they may think twice about a Witcher 4. But they originally offered royalties, so they were clearly happy with paying them at the time.
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After that, i unsubscribed and stopped watching. Laws are modified by other laws, laws require judgement to interpret, arguments on the rightness and fairness of the issue often sway judges and juries.
And as was earlier pointed out "may request the court".
I'm not polish, lawyer or otherwise, i don't speak or read polish, legalese or otherwise.
Until someone with more information can chime up on this, i shall remain sceptical on the merits of the case.
I can promise this is so totally not true. I really, really, really wish it was sometimes, but it is not the case.
If this was the case then George Zimmerman would be in prison, Harmony Gold would have lost the rights to Robotech decades ago, Content Creators wouldn't be at the mercy of Youtube, that Colorado baker would have been forced to sell cakes to everyone, and so on and so on.
And I'm not saying he has the right to win, just that he has the right to try to win. I doubt his lawyers would take the case if they didn't think he had any legal claims .
Juries, yeah, that's the issue with trial by jury: you can convince people of lots of bullshit.
Fair and just (and reasonable) interpretation do have a place in court.
I don't mean you can just overturn a law because it is unfair (well, not usually), but that does not make the concepts irrelevant in court.
Like any other literary genre, what people want in cyberpunk can vary. I have to imagine that Cyberpunk 2077, based on an American property and made for an international but particularly American audience will be a bit different from The Witcher 3, based on a Polish novel, itself different from the first game in the series, made for a Polish and European audience.
It's sort of how I've noticed, quite naturally, among American viewers of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, there's a pretty low level of interest in issues of Japanese civil law, nationality, nationhood and 20th century history--which are all pretty major pillars of the plot in both seasons. Some people on the forums felt that these were letdowns from what should have been a greater focus on transhumanism, on changing sexual identity--which are still in the series, just examined as strongly as they might've liked (there's still time spent looking at cyborg sexuality and gender identity, but Kusanagi's origins are eventually hammered out quite clearly). It's understandable that among an American audience, you might find people who are a lot less interested in Japanese intergovernmental politics and postwar political history and a lot more interested in technological fluidity of gender and transhuman sexuality), but the first season in particular was written for a Japanese audience first and foremost whom, unsurprisingly, would think a lot about their own history and politics.
Cyberpunk 2077 is, as said, written for a primarily though not exclusively western, English-speaking audience (because that is biggest single language market for this kind of game in all likelihood), and then for other European markets after that, and then Japan after that, on top of being based however distantly on an American property. CDPR, like any company, will have their writing teams directed as such. But it's possible some more uniquely "hometown" (Warsaw, apparently?) elements will make it into the writing all the same. God knows plenty of American games are still very American when they get regional releases in Japan and elsewhere, though naturally the development was different.
You have to interpret laws, they are not simple ikea instructions.
Yes, they do usually interpret according to precedent, but someone always has to set the precedent, and it usually is a trial judge who sets the first precedent (and then gets either overturned or upheld by appeals circuit).
And of course you'd only get to that point if you decided not help him thru the courts. If you go that route, be sure to pickup a LexisNexis implant.
yeah im also slightly uneasy about how the reactionary nature of some elements of polish culture are interpreted abroad in the sense that its often read as a sign of a monolithic cultural value that is simply all present, rather than being as representative of the values of any given (especially younger) person as say trump being president about americans. there are plenty of lgbt organisations in poland, ongoing struggles for trans rights etc. even the supreme court doesnt always rule as you would expect eg
https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/06/21/polands-supreme-court-stands-lgbt-equality
this is not to say they dont have problems or are suffering from a particular reactionary cultural thread that is running through eastern europe more broadly but u no
cdpr is full of young Extremely Online english-speaking people. i would expect them to be substantially less reactionary than the population at large
As much as I was pumped for this, I'm definitely going to pass on a pre order and see how it ends up coming out. Looks more and more like it's not going to align with what I want to see from Cyberpunk.
2077s surely
Nudity is not bad
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I don't think american sensibilities is even relevant in context, considering the shit Hollywood keeps shitting out.
This is about hoping that Cyberpunk 2077 would live up to its potential, or atleast not completely fail it, when it comes to gender, sexuality and acceptance of the people not white straight cismen.
Unless T&A has been redefined and the T may refer to testicles as much as to tits.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Men can have tits sometimes
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
I think there's a bunch of things going on with Sapkowski. Specifically, I think he comes from a particular school of SF&F writers who have a bit of an over-inflated opinion of their work and who simultaneously see any adaptation as Bad Wrong Not My Vision *and* as a chance for a cheap cash grab. Harlan was one of these, rather notoriously. Furthermore, it really wasn't stupid to assume that the game franchise would never take off -- I literally cannot think of another fantasy or sci-fi video game based on a book that wasn't already an international super-franchise in other ways (LotR, Harry Potter) that has gotten THIS level of success. But he was also insanely stupid because listen, literally every SF&F author I know has always told me to tAKE ROYALTIES WHEN OFFERED. Hell, one of the big Problems in the freelance tabletop RPG industry is that 99% of that industry DOES NOT offer royalties. I still cherish the $0.05 royalty I once got for an anthology I edited, dammit.
The problem isn't JUST that he made a mistake though -- it's that throughout the process he's acted in bad faith and like a big primadonna. Again, like Harlan Ellison. He's trash talked the games from the beginning. It'd be one thing if he just said, "eh, they're pretty different from my books in some ways and not to my taste," but he actively gets angry that his books have a new audience because Vidya Games. It's the sort of gatekeepy garbage I have to put up with at old school sci fi conventions, where if I don't prove that Yes Dammit I've Read XYZ, I Know More About The History of This Fandom Than You Do Pal, I'm instantly dismissed as DEM KIDZ. Fuck, example: at an old school sf convention in Boston (started in 1941 or so!), there was a "teen & youth lounge" which was for anyone under the age of 35. And not done in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge way, this was 100% serious with the idea that 35 year olds are Too Young for our Serious Sci Fi Fandom. Which is the kinda person this guy strikes me as.
And let me tell you, NOBODY I've met who discovered the books thanks to the games thinks the games came first! So what if people found your books because of a game; they FOUND YOUR BOOKS.
TL;DR -- while I am always all for people getting money from their IPs, it seems to me that Sapkowski has an over-inflated ego and is being a bit silly about this. Esp since like... I almost imagine if he'd just gone to CDPR and gone "Hey, I screwed up. Can we re-negotiate?" it would have been fine, but he strikes me as the type to go "I, Important Fantasy Author, Deign to Negotiate with These Young Kids and their Video Game Thingy?"
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Doesn't Sapkowski also have the thing where, at least in his own head, his books are Serious Polish Literature and not genre fiction? I can see that mixing poorly with the reality where the video games have more international respect and recognition than his novels.
But yeah, after Cyberpunk, they might finally see what their writers and directors can come up with as original, instead of piggy backing on someone else's good work. Good work that they love and treat with respect, but still not their work.
Brandon Sanderson was also actively involved in the design of and wrote a large chunk of the asides for the Mistborn RPG. So it's not too surprising the dude would be down for games of his settings.
Which I'd 100% take because the Mistborn trilogy are my personal LOTR style nerd bible as far as fantasy stuff goes.
I started and finished every Mistborn book a couple of weeks ago, and yeah they're pretty great and I'd love to see some games set in that world
Steam: TheArcadeBear
I think you are misunderstanding something here.
What I seem to remember someone saying in some youtube video was a factor of 3.
That means 10 to the 3rd degree.
It's always wonderful to read and hear americans being open to running a country in any other way than the usa is.
Your current political situation is clearly prof that it can't be done any better.
Is it really that bad having as part of copyright law that if someone is makeing more that 1000 times the money off of an idea you came up with, maybe the original licence contract was a bit unfair?
You could include a one promille royalty payout of profits as an insurance against being sued if your licenced product takes off.
Now, the letter send to CDPR very much sound like a veiled threat so it's very possible the actual process of using the law to get a payout is uncertain.
.
Island. Being on fire.
Hopefully Cyberpunk takes off and is awesome and they continue that and pick up Mistborn.
Please explain how this is going to stop more games? Also here? I’m so confused by your statement.
On the one hand, the guy had the chance to take royalties and didn't. "I changed my mind" to the tune of 16 million dollars is one hell of an impact on the company, especially when the projects that made all that money came from the hands of dozens or hundreds of other people. Yes, the author may have come up with the original setting but just in sheer man-hours, the amount of work he put into Witcher is nothing compared to the man-hours put it into the games.
On the other hand, IP creators seem to pretty habitually get the short end of the stick when it comes to their properties. If the guy was hurting for cash, taking the immediate payout was likely something he didn't have much choice on anyway. Even if he wasn't hurting for cash, the guy is a writer, not an accountant. I can't really hold it against him for not understanding the potential magnitude of what he was passing up, or being in a position where having a decent payout immediately seems a lot more useful than a potential large payout later on.
Having IP law require a mandatory royalty payout for the original content creator past a certain reasonable point of earnings doesn't seem at all crazy to me. Then companies can't take advantage of content creators who are in financial straights or are not well-versed in financial matters, and people making unique content don't have to be legal or financial experts to make sure that licensing the rights to their IP is proportionally rewarded.
EDIT: A quick Google check puts the earnings for Witcher 3 alone at around 170 million dollars, after development costs. Yeah, I don't really begrudge the guy getting an actual solid piece of that as a matter of law.
That's not what "a factor of" means, it does just mean 3x in this case. You're thinking of "order of magnitude" which deals with the power law you describe.
Personally I like the laws intent, but perhaps the factor seems a bit egregious. I wonder how muhh leway a judge has enforcing it in Poland. Pretty sure they work on case law...?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
People don't like getting sued? I mean in 20 years they may try again, but you think someone is going to look at this and think "Hot damn, we need to make a Witcher game!" any time soon?
But they're already getting sued. However it shakes out, that threat has come and gone.
If it's ruled that they do owe $ridiculous royalties and will continue to owe them in the future, they may think twice about a Witcher 4. But they originally offered royalties, so they were clearly happy with paying them at the time.