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Pathfinder: Kingmaker- Wrath of the Righteous out now!

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Posts

  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    They had a large beta from kickstarter backers. I think the big problem is that it is a huge game that had a relatively short production schedule, so bugs had to be prioritized. As pure speculation, maybe they had to release before they ran out of funds from the kickstarter. Or maybe they expected to clear more up before release when they announced the date.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    They had a large beta from kickstarter backers. I think the big problem is that it is a huge game that had a relatively short production schedule, so bugs had to be prioritized. As pure speculation, maybe they had to release before they ran out of funds from the kickstarter. Or maybe they expected to clear more up before release when they announced the date.

    Also, these type of RPGs are notoriously buggy because of their complexity. An entire company was founded to patch up and rerelease the Infinity Engine games, even when they ran fine on modern machines before the remasters.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I found a website that lets you respec your character, and your party, I think. Unfortunately I have screwed up twice now, luckily recoverable.

    https://pathfinder.deev.io/

    A reminder from me: clear your inventory, all your equipped items, and your party's equipped items. Put it in the chest in Oleg's house (or somewhere). The tool deletes all of it. On the plus side, once you do that, you can start everyone over at level 1. Your PC can start at 0. I wanted to change my Sword Saint from rapier to estoc, which this is going to let me do.

  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    I was just coming here to post that.

    I had to use it last night because I totally fucked myself and Tristan up.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Man the Adventure portion of the game and the Kingdom management intertwine fantastically. It doesn't feel like two separate systems, but two complimentary systems that impact one another.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Axen wrote: »
    Man the Adventure portion of the game and the Kingdom management intertwine fantastically. It doesn't feel like two separate systems, but two complimentary systems that impact one another.

    It creates a great push and pull mechanism that allows me time to explore the world while also pushing me back toward engaging with the plot.

    An example:
    I have been poking at a lengthy quest to discover what's going on with a group of trolls who have been made immune to fire. I stopped following the questline because I ran into a chain of fights that I just couldn't handle and wanted to level up.

    Meanwhile, I keep getting cards about troll attacks in my kingdom. They are slowly (more slowly now that they patched it to reduce the severity a bit) killing the loyalty and stability of my kingdom, which feels satisfying as a narrative and mechanic because that's what you'd expect constant attacks would do.

    So, I am at the point where I feel the need to start seriously working on the troll problem, not because it's on a quest list but because I am tired of dealing with the problems it is causing in my kingdom. I can't think of a single game with split focus like this where the narratives and mechanics work together so seamlessly.

    Phillishere on
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Agreed.

    Most all RPGs will have a situation where someone is all, "Oh shit this is bad! We need to act now or we're all dooooooomed!" Then you get distracted and several real hours and in-game months pass before you remember the quest exists only to find everyone still in full PANIC mode. In Pathfinder however you can ignore a serious quest, but you'll have to continually spend resources to mitigate the problems that come from not dealing with it right away. Or you can ignore it and let the Barony fall to ruin I suppose. :razz:


    I know I've talked about how great the quests are (they're damn good), but there is something else about them I've noticed. Unlike pretty much every RPG, with Pathfinder doing your due diligence and exploring all leads of a quest does not guarantee the Best Outcome. Sometimes speed is critical and following every lead can ensure a less than desirable outcome. Not necessarily a Bad Outcome, just not the Best Outcome. The game doesn't flat out tell you when speed is important, but if you read the quest log and talk to NPCs they will usually indicate that speed is of the essence. Unlike in most other games where you are told completing the task quickly is important, here they actually mean it. Not every quest is like that, but there seems to be a few.

    Also I'd like to mention that this game has, IMHO, one of the best depictions of Alignment I've seen. Like, Lawful Good doesn't always come off as "Good". I think I've had more "Execute this person" or "Throw this wretch in prison" options with Lawful Good then I've seen with the more "Evil" options. Lawful Good comes off more like a stubborn Paragon who believes that they are always in the right and that there is absolutely no Grey. The other Alignments have also looked equally as well done.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    So based on NPCs available and knowledge of the Pathfinder character ins and outs, what are a few solid choices for player character setup?

    Lt. Iolo's First Day
    Steam profile.
    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    I found a polearm with reach and an 18-20/x2 crit range and yeah...I need to do a reroll cause this changes everything o_o

    wWuzwvJ.png
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    I found a polearm with reach and an 18-20/x2 crit range and yeah...I need to do a reroll cause this changes everything o_o

    Fauchard?

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Iolo wrote: »
    So based on NPCs available and knowledge of the Pathfinder character ins and outs, what are a few solid choices for player character setup?

    There are two NPC clerics and a bard available early, so a support caster isn't really necessary. You also have a tanky fighter and a barbarian. Other act 1 npcs are a magus and rogue/wizard.

    The game is light on straight up blasting casters, that would be fun. There are no NPC: monks, sorcerers, paladins, or druids

  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    My only real problem with this game is the Log/Journal is pretty messy and not very well organized

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    My only real problem with this game is the Log/Journal is pretty messy and not very well organized

    ... well, it's being written by a Chaotic character, so ...

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    My only real problem with this game is the Log/Journal is pretty messy and not very well organized

    It desperately needs locations. At the very least, it needs hints at where things are going to take place. There is way too much reliance on Quest Pops/New Location Appears on Map dynamic, which gets really muddy when it wants you to return to a place you have already visited.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    I found a polearm with reach and an 18-20/x2 crit range and yeah...I need to do a reroll cause this changes everything o_o

    Fauchard?

    Yeah, the Fauchard. Weapons with reach are hilarious enough, but a polearm with a crit range like a rapier? Oh man. Combined with all the dirty teamwork feats like Outflank and Paired Opportunists and I can see some really silly shit happening as a result.
    On the other hand, if this game is letting sneak attacks happen from the front as long as another teammate is attacking the target then a Rogue fishing for Sneak Attacks with a polearm will be pretty fucking ridiculous too. It'll get even more stupid if Combat Reflexes will let said Rogue go fishing for sneak attacks of opportunity. On the other other hand I could see a fighter being thrown in the mix that specializes in tripping people to set up a huge mess of attacks of opportunity and I'm going to end up assembling a totally custom party based around polearm cheese aren't I?

    TOGSolid on
    wWuzwvJ.png
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    I don't know about this game, but in an actual game of Pathfinder, it would be pretty easy for a GM to counter an all polearm party because once an enemy is next to you, you can't use that polearm on them (except the polearm master fighter archetype).

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    I found a polearm with reach and an 18-20/x2 crit range and yeah...I need to do a reroll cause this changes everything o_o

    Fauchard?

    Yeah, the Fauchard. Weapons with reach are hilarious enough, but a polearm with a crit range like a rapier? Oh man. Combined with all the dirty teamwork feats like Outflank and Paired Opportunists and I can see some really silly shit happening as a result.
    On the other hand, if this game is letting sneak attacks happen from the front as long as another teammate is attacking the target then a Rogue fishing for Sneak Attacks with a polearm will be pretty fucking ridiculous too. It'll get even more stupid if Combat Reflexes will let said Rogue go fishing for sneak attacks of opportunity. On the other other hand I could see a fighter being thrown in the mix that specializes in tripping people to set up a huge mess of attacks of opportunity and I'm going to end up assembling a totally custom party based around polearm cheese aren't I?

    Congratulations! You have reinvented ancient and medieval infantry combat. :D

    But, actually, I think a Fighter / Rogue would be a fantastic addition to basically any party; I've never considered making them a polearm user, but that seems like a really good idea.

    Consider investing in the Trip feats, too, to drop your enemies prone and then get additional AoOs when they stand up. Note, of course, that the Fauchard is a trip weapon. :)

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I don't know about this game, but in an actual game of Pathfinder, it would be pretty easy for a GM to counter an all polearm party because once an enemy is next to you, you can't use that polearm on them (except the polearm master fighter archetype).

    Your friend behind you attacks them, and / or you take a 5' step and attack normally.

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I don't know about this game, but in an actual game of Pathfinder, it would be pretty easy for a GM to counter an all polearm party because once an enemy is next to you, you can't use that polearm on them (except the polearm master fighter archetype).

    Your friend behind you attacks them, and / or you take a 5' step and attack normally.

    Sure, but if you have to take a 5' step every turn, what's the point? One or two people with a polearm makes sense. An entire party would be limiting. Now, if someone were just going for rule of cool...

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    I don't know about this game, but in an actual game of Pathfinder, it would be pretty easy for a GM to counter an all polearm party because once an enemy is next to you, you can't use that polearm on them (except the polearm master fighter archetype).

    I wouldn't go full polearms. I'd definitely want sort of face tanking bruiser that can wade in and set up the trip attacks to trigger the AoO apocalypse. I'd also have the usual array of support casters. I think, ideally, what I'd want is some sort of super beefy trip machine to throw at the enemies, a mage to help flood the field with summons, a cleric for healing and mass debuffs/buffs, a polearm Rogue fishing for sneak attacks of opportunity (assuming this game has the Elven Branched Spear because that's a polearm you can weapon finesse), and an Inquisitor to help with summon spam and also wielding a polearm so that I can abuse all the free teamwork feats in really weird ways (maybe have this character do the trip attacks. Then I'd have a sixth slot as a flex slot I can do whatever with. I'll need to dig through the classes to see what would work best to support this sort of silliness so this is all spitballing.

    EDIT: Kinda thinking running the sneak attacker in the flex slot and have them just focus on their own thing since it looks like Elven Branched Spears don't exist in this game, then I'd run maybe a polearm Fighter to buddy up with the polearm Inquisitor.
    Consider investing in the Trip feats, too, to drop your enemies prone and then get additional AoOs when they stand up. Note, of course, that the Fauchard is a trip weapon.
    Oh yea, that's definitely on the menu. :twisted:

    TOGSolid on
    wWuzwvJ.png
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I don't know about this game, but in an actual game of Pathfinder, it would be pretty easy for a GM to counter an all polearm party because once an enemy is next to you, you can't use that polearm on them (except the polearm master fighter archetype).

    Your friend behind you attacks them, and / or you take a 5' step and attack normally.

    Sure, but if you have to take a 5' step every turn, what's the point? One or two people with a polearm makes sense. An entire party would be limiting. Now, if someone were just going for rule of cool...
    My characters tend to take lots of 5’ steps in combat anyway, as a matter of course, so this wouldn’t result in much change at all.

  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited October 2018
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    I found a polearm with reach and an 18-20/x2 crit range and yeah...I need to do a reroll cause this changes everything o_o

    Fauchard?

    Yeah, the Fauchard. Weapons with reach are hilarious enough, but a polearm with a crit range like a rapier? Oh man. Combined with all the dirty teamwork feats like Outflank and Paired Opportunists and I can see some really silly shit happening as a result.
    On the other hand, if this game is letting sneak attacks happen from the front as long as another teammate is attacking the target then a Rogue fishing for Sneak Attacks with a polearm will be pretty fucking ridiculous too. It'll get even more stupid if Combat Reflexes will let said Rogue go fishing for sneak attacks of opportunity. On the other other hand I could see a fighter being thrown in the mix that specializes in tripping people to set up a huge mess of attacks of opportunity and I'm going to end up assembling a totally custom party based around polearm cheese aren't I?

    A big cheese item from 3.0/3.5 was a fighter using spiked chains to trip folks, was very crazy with like Enlarge spells.

    Bigity on
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I bought this last night and I'm gonna fire it up tonight. How viable is a Blaster Cleric? Do they have a spell list that can support lots of direct damage? I know it was possible in 3.5 D&D (since Clerics and Druids could do everything well there) and it's pretty viable in 5E depending on domain. I'm not familiar with the depth of spell list for Pathfinder Clerics, though.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I bought this last night and I'm gonna fire it up tonight. How viable is a Blaster Cleric? Do they have a spell list that can support lots of direct damage? I know it was possible in 3.5 D&D (since Clerics and Druids could do everything well there) and it's pretty viable in 5E depending on domain. I'm not familiar with the depth of spell list for Pathfinder Clerics, though.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/9kt4zp/cleric_spell_list_patch_103/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/9l064l/domain_spell_list_103/

  • McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    It seems like doing an Ecclesitheurge with one of the element/weather domains as the primary can do some good damage offensively.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Ah, Web. Hello again old friend. Let’s go cheese this game together like its ‘98 all over again.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    McHoger wrote: »
    It seems like doing an Ecclesitheurge with one of the element/weather domains as the primary can do some good damage offensively.

    Yeah. Fire is good unsurprisingly. Water too. Trickery looks like it would expand your utility spells nicely.

  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Third level superior summoning get. Monster Tactician power spike is absurd. I also took animal domain and will have an animal companion soon.

    I dropped 4 doggos on an enemy caster and watched them shred him before he got his fireball off to kill us all.

    Do the teamwork feats apply to your animal companion as well or just to your summons? That might change my choice

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    I tell ya, being on the receiving end of a monster summon spam enemy is extremely frustrating.

    “Oh hai! Lemme call forth 20+ wolves that will constantly knock your party on their asses!”

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Whelp. . . my kingdom was destroyed. Game over.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Really, this is just making me want to find a DM to run Kingmaker for a group that includes me.

  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Well, shit. I managed to completely break a major quest, and I do not have any saves before I broke it. I am 60-ish hours in, trapped in this zone, and I don't think I can continue. Cool. Cool cool cool.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Hm, yeah, this run is toast. Time to reroll.

    I lowered Kingdom difficulty to easy and that bought me some time to complete the main quest that was causing all the headache. However, even after victory I still had a ton of Problem cards from that main quest and only two of my advisors were qualified to deal with them.


    edit- I guess on the plus side I get to make a new character!

    edit 2- Word of advice, if something seems like it is a pretty major problem you should probably deal with it right away instead of, oh I dunno, doing something silly like mapping all the nodes in your land. :razz:

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Well, shit. I managed to completely break a major quest, and I do not have any saves before I broke it. I am 60-ish hours in, trapped in this zone, and I don't think I can continue. Cool. Cool cool cool.

    Yup, I have managed to brick myself. Word of warning: If you find yourself on a story mission at a location with "Womb" in the title, SAVE YOUR GAME BEFORE YOU GO IN. It is very, very easy to sequence break and fuck yourself.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Spoilers involving the above:
    If you actually finished the quest, that is killed the plant, then leave the cave and head back to the capital.

    The game will not tell you to do this and by all outward appearances nothing will have changed.

    Once at the capital talk to Jhod.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Spoilers involving the above:
    If you actually finished the quest, that is killed the plant, then leave the cave and head back to the capital.

    The game will not tell you to do this and by all outward appearances nothing will have changed.

    Once at the capital talk to Jhod.

    So, here's what happened.
    I poisoned the plant, I split the party, I made it through the first fight, and then died in the second. As the whole thing was one non-stop, un-checkpoint-ed combat sequence, it loaded me back to before I poisoned the plant. I was frustrated by this.

    So when I poisoned the plant, I told the gnome, "I need a minute." And then, I went back to the rest point by the dais. Rested a bunch, healed up all the permanent damage. I then tried to go back, and the plant was alive again. The gnome was still by the campfire, so I talked to him, and he had the dialogue option to split the party. Cool, let's do it! My chosen people disappear, and I... Can't get to the plant. Can't use the transitional fog that would get me there.

    I have tried every permutation of transitional fogging, not fogging, everything. I broke this shit, and it's stuck like that.

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    This game is still very buggy and unpolished. Quests do break, weird things can happen to your kingdom for unknown reasons, things aren't explained well, and quests with time limits have to be completed 100% to stop them from failing.

  • SyzygySyzygy Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    Yeah, a friend let me use his steam account to play it, and I'm glad I didn't spend money on it. I dunno if they didn't adapt the game properly or what but the wizard I made as the main character couldn't hit ANYTHING even with 20 INT. Every single fucking spell they cast up through level 3 never hit a god damn thing that wasn't a self buff. Seriously, what the actual fuck, is INT not the main Wizard stat now? There is no reason they should be missing every god damn shot. Clearly kickstarter money only gets you B-string game designers nowadays I guess.

    Secondly, melee guys are weak as shit. I ended up with the ex-paladin lady, the undead elf lady, and the barbarian lady in my initial party, and literally within the first 10 seconds of any given fight the barbarian and the elf would get shredded in melee. Y'know, the distance at which they're supposed to be most effective at. Even when I equipped the highest AC armor they were proficient with that the game offered at the time. What's the fucking point of melee classes that CAN'T SURVIVE IN MELEE? I gave up around the time some asshole wanted me to fetch some stupid berries from a spider cave and the entire party of level 3 supposedly hardened badasses were wiped by two swarms of tiny spiders. Because apparently you can only swing your sword at them, you can't just stomp on them like you're Dirty Dancing. Oh and the wizard of course couldn't hit them with their spells, because at that point they only had one cast of burning hands and they had used it up on an encounter with some wolves earlier. Not that I expected them to be able to hit anything anyway but at that point I was so fed up I just alt-f4'd out of the game and went back to flipping through d20pfsrd.com to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

    The real time with pause is, as mentioned previously, hot garbage that should have been left in the 90's along with all the other bad isometric RPG decisions.

    It's not fun, it's clunky and terrible to control or manage, but worst of all, it's not Pathfinder. You know what I get when I play actual pathfinder? Turn based combat where wizards can actually hit shit with their spells. Nobody gets to take a move turn while you're in the middle of casting a spell on what should be YOUR turn. It's got pathfinder lore, sure, but Pathfinder is more than lore. If I wanted just lore I'd go read a fantasy novel. They should have let the team behind Divinity Original Sin design this game because the guys who made this one either don't know what they're doing or they're a bunch of stodgy old gamers who can't accept that RTWP is dumpster fire tier design choice on top of also not respecting the actual gameplay of the Pathfinder tabletop.

    This is exceedingly disappointing to me, as I love Pathfinder (the tabletop RPG) and they tried to sell me a Pathfinder videogame that isn't Pathfinder. It's some shitty 90's isometric RPG. Ah well, guess I'll stick with friends and dice for the foreseeable future.

    Syzygy on
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Surely you are aware, that a lot of the early combat spells are ranged touch spells? That use DEX to hit? That suffer from the -4 to hit if shooting into melee? And spider swarms can be dealt with by torches, and acid/fire flasks sold by the same guy who gives the quest. Swarms are immune to normal weapon attacks.

    Honestly, it just seems like most of your issues with the game are a combination of the usual low level character weaknesses combined with not understanding the game mechanics.

    If you want a blaster caster who is good with ranged touch spells, get Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and maybe Weapon Focus: Ray. You'll hit everything. It's a specific build choice.

    And personally I've enjoyed the hours I've put into this so far way more than DOS and DOS2 combined, so I suppose YMMV.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    And as an aside, a lot of the people who backed this game did so precisely because they wanted another one of those "shitty 90s isometric RPGs". This game gives some Baldur's Gate vibes, and I'm ok with that, in good and bad.

This discussion has been closed.