This is probably illegal in the sense of violation of a contract illegal not necessarily illegal as in criminal crime illegal. Though IANAL and all.
It might be the cleanest way of getting out though and shifts the legal burden to him suing you rather than you trying to get vague authorities to act against him. I would definitely have a long talk to the lawyer about legal exposure though. NYC will probably be looking at you with fines and what not. Knowing what you'd be exposing yourself to there would be an important step in evaluating that course of action.
Oh and if you do that I'd think you definitely need to move. The nightmare scenario would be months of litigation and fines and then facing a court order to allow him to resume tenancy.
@Drez, I'm wondering if you can reach an agreement with the rental company to pony up the costs of the eviction process in exchange for the eviction being directed solely at bad roommate?
Ultimately, what the rental company wants is for everyone to be gone at the end of the lease, and they'll do this through eviction if necessary, the costs for which they'll recoup through you and good roommate. What you and good roommate want is for bad roommate to be gone but not to get dinged with the credit hit for eviction in your name. This way both of you might get what you want with the least amount of personal hurt.
@Drez, I'm wondering if you can reach an agreement with the rental company to pony up the costs of the eviction process in exchange for the eviction being directed solely at bad roommate?
Ultimately, what the rental company wants is for everyone to be gone at the end of the lease, and they'll do this through eviction if necessary, the costs for which they'll recoup through you and good roommate. What you and good roommate want is for bad roommate to be gone but not to get dinged with the credit hit for eviction in your name. This way both of you might get what you want with the least amount of personal hurt.
The lawyer did say this could be a possibility, but it presents a few challenges:
1) Could be very expensive. Lawyer said it could be 5000-10000 in and of itself.
2) We would then need to find another apartment. Which is additional costs on top of that.
3) There's no guarantee they would even go for this. Of course we can find that out by asking, but...
4) We'd have to give up the apartment. It's a great apartment and my roommate and I really don't want to give it up unless we literally have no other choice.
5) Cost of the apartment is much less expensive than another one. And our renewal terms only have it increasing by 2% which is pretty great.
My savings is unfortunately a little thin right now so option #1 + option #2 would be rough and frankly not very possible.
Can you offer him some sort of amount to get him to leave?
That and/or forgiving what he owes on the utilities.
I know that that stings but as you really want to stay in the unit, plus he's digging in his heels hard, it may be in your interest to give him the appearance of winning on one front.
Obviously, get it in writing the instant he agrees, if that happens
have your lawyers advised you that you cannot proceed with eviction against this person yourselves? If he is not a signatory to the rental agreement I can't imagine you need to give him more than the 30 or 60 or whatever days required by statute, and then call the authorities if necessary
ed: I mean, my understanding is that 1) this person has not signed the lease 2) the lease allows signors (you) to take on occupants/sublets and 3) you have such an arrangement with this person with no further documentation. If that's the case it ought to be a fairly simple matter of giving him notice, though you'll have to wait him out
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
If you go the buy-out route, do not hand over money until he's provided proof that he handed over the keys. Try and get him to sign something agreeing to move out in exchange for the dollar amount, and get it notarized. Then change the locks (if possible) in case he made copies of his key or something.
Wait. How could they file an eviction against you in that situation? What the hell was their cause? (Just realized that may be personal, please don't answer if you do not wish to.)
[edit]
Their cause was that I hadn’t paid the early termination penalties or final months rent...which was true. But they served me at the place I moved out by taping by the notice to the door which is unethical and borders on illegal.
have your lawyers advised you that you cannot proceed with eviction against this person yourselves? If he is not a signatory to the rental agreement I can't imagine you need to give him more than the 30 or 60 or whatever days required by statute, and then call the authorities if necessary
ed: I mean, my understanding is that 1) this person has not signed the lease 2) the lease allows signors (you) to take on occupants/sublets and 3) you have such an arrangement with this person with no further documentation. If that's the case it ought to be a fairly simple matter of giving him notice, though you'll have to wait him out
My guess is that even though bad roommate is only an occupant, Drez said bad roommate was paying the complex directly for rent. So the complex becomes his de facto landlord, not Drez, and the complex is the only one who can evict.
And if they're doing an eviction they're just going to name everyone on the lease and living there. Joint and several liability and all that.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I wonder if you could get away with getting a statement or something to the extent that said you and your roomate are vacating and have nothing to do with jerkmate notarized or something and that would absolve you from it.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I wonder if you move out, if you can then cut all the utilities...You might want to check with your lawyer if that is legal.
I don't understand why you couldn't just change the locks on him and dump his belongings on the street.
Because that would be illegal.
Generally speaking, once someone has established residence in a place, contract/lease or no, getting them out again is a complicated and time-consuming issue. If your deadbeat couch-surfing cousin moves in with you and stays for a couple months, guess what? He lives there now, and you can't just kick him out without going through the eviction process.
I don't understand why you couldn't just change the locks on him and dump his belongings on the street.
Because that would be illegal.
Generally speaking, once someone has established residence in a place, contract/lease or no, getting them out again is a complicated and time-consuming issue. If your deadbeat couch-surfing cousin moves in with you and stays for a couple months, guess what? He lives there now, and you can't just kick him out without going through the eviction process.
Note that, generally, these rules are good-to-have because they prevent scummy landlords from kicking people out at a moment's whim.
That doesn't mean they don't result in undeserved annoyance and pain some of the time, though.
I think the point Kruite was trying to make was that if he has no documentation of him being a paying member of the domicile, he wonders whether those type of rules would apply to him
I think the point Kruite was trying to make was that if he has no documentation of him being a paying member of the domicile, he wonders whether those type of rules would apply to him
They do even if it isn't documented, like their reference to the cousin on the couch for a few weeks.
Drez has already mentioned that Bad Roomate is on the lease as a resident because they have shitty credit and weren't approved to be one of the leasers.
I think the point Kruite was trying to make was that if he has no documentation of him being a paying member of the domicile, he wonders whether those type of rules would apply to him
They do even if it isn't documented, like their reference to the cousin on the couch for a few weeks.
Drez has already mentioned that Bad Roomate is on the lease as a resident because they have shitty credit and weren't approved to be one of the leasers.
This is the bit I don't get re: evicting Drez.
The landlord agreed to take him on as an "occupant," and he agreed to be one. If he refuses to leave, why can't they just proceed against him?
I'm curious if it's just a scare tactic to motivate Drez to ensure he leaves?
I think the point Kruite was trying to make was that if he has no documentation of him being a paying member of the domicile, he wonders whether those type of rules would apply to him
They do even if it isn't documented, like their reference to the cousin on the couch for a few weeks.
Drez has already mentioned that Bad Roomate is on the lease as a resident because they have shitty credit and weren't approved to be one of the leasers.
This is the bit I don't get re: evicting Drez.
The landlord agreed to take him on as an "occupant," and he agreed to be one. If he refuses to leave, why can't they just proceed against him?
I'm curious if it's just a scare tactic to motivate Drez to ensure he leaves?
Presumedly everyone on the lease is jointly responsible in an eviction, same as drez would be responsible for his roommates' shares of the rent if they decided to stop paying.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I think the point Kruite was trying to make was that if he has no documentation of him being a paying member of the domicile, he wonders whether those type of rules would apply to him
They do even if it isn't documented, like their reference to the cousin on the couch for a few weeks.
Drez has already mentioned that Bad Roomate is on the lease as a resident because they have shitty credit and weren't approved to be one of the leasers.
This is the bit I don't get re: evicting Drez.
The landlord agreed to take him on as an "occupant," and he agreed to be one. If he refuses to leave, why can't they just proceed against him?
I'm curious if it's just a scare tactic to motivate Drez to ensure he leaves?
Presumedly everyone on the lease is jointly responsible in an eviction, same as drez would be responsible for his roommates' shares of the rent if they decided to stop paying.
That seems really dumb, but as Drez has consulted a lawyer and they agreed this was likely, I don't think it's the landlord just going with scare tactics.
Sorry I haven't responded at all. Weekend was crazy and we're still trying to figure out the best course of action. I do appreciate everyone's opinion.
I think the point Kruite was trying to make was that if he has no documentation of him being a paying member of the domicile, he wonders whether those type of rules would apply to him
They do even if it isn't documented, like their reference to the cousin on the couch for a few weeks.
Drez has already mentioned that Bad Roomate is on the lease as a resident because they have shitty credit and weren't approved to be one of the leasers.
This is the bit I don't get re: evicting Drez.
The landlord agreed to take him on as an "occupant," and he agreed to be one. If he refuses to leave, why can't they just proceed against him?
I'm curious if it's just a scare tactic to motivate Drez to ensure he leaves?
Presumedly everyone on the lease is jointly responsible in an eviction, same as drez would be responsible for his roommates' shares of the rent if they decided to stop paying.
I guess so
Dredged up a remarkably similar Reddit thread in which several people noted that treating all tennants as one entity is pretty normal.
Drez: Is it possible to sue the Goosemate for damages? Or is that more or less what the retainer is already for?
If so, does he know that, and would the risk of you taking all his shit and garnishing his wages be something he might find motivational?
it's situations like this where tenant laws are a massive failure. I recall trying to get a guy evicted once. It took us two years and he eventually got removed because of elder abuse, not the fact that he hadn't paid a bill in two years.
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Just a question, how much stuff, does this guy actually have?
Is it just the clothes on his back?
What I'm asking is, if you stealth move out when he is gone, and fill out the paperwork, and the landlord locks out the apartment. It sounds like the uninvited guest might have a claim against the landlord, maybe.
Just a question, how much stuff, does this guy actually have?
Is it just the clothes on his back?
What I'm asking is, if you stealth move out when he is gone, and fill out the paperwork, and the landlord locks out the apartment. It sounds like the uninvited guest might have a claim against the landlord, maybe.
So instead of trying to work with the landlord to change the locks to get this guy out, trick the landlord into changing the locks to get this guy out? I may be missunderstanding the plan here.
Just a question, how much stuff, does this guy actually have?
Is it just the clothes on his back?
What I'm asking is, if you stealth move out when he is gone, and fill out the paperwork, and the landlord locks out the apartment. It sounds like the uninvited guest might have a claim against the landlord, maybe.
The people who are technically on the hook for money are the actual tenants though.
Drez would still be liable to pay rent if this dude keeps pushing on that end too. However Drez can take this dude to court to sue him to get back money for unpaid rent and utilities if he has proof this guy didn't pay him.
This is also why you never take cash and always checks so you have a paper trail to go "Well you see your honor, Dick-roommate didn't pay me starting in January until October" as you hand them your bank statements showing a lack of deposits from that checking account. Any incidental stuff, like staying past a lease, you could also sue.
TBH drez should start sooner rather than later, a lawsuit might light a fire under this dude's ass to figure his shit the fuck out. Hopefully it falls under the purview of small claims or else it gets much more expensive. Also if y'all still live there you should probably start proceedings to evict your roommate for non payment.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Police departments sometimes offer mediation between neighbors to help them settle stupid spats with a degree of sincerity. I wonder if some sort of similar action could be offered and work here, I think there's plenty justification for that with your credit on the line. The mere presence of an officer and knowing they've heard him agree to something might cause him to be a bit more agreeable.
Outside of that, I have no advice, but I'm sorry for the shitty situation.
This is a rough situation. I understand you don't have much money. Do you think "bad roommate" would respond to a bribe/payout? It would suck and I would run it by the lawyer but maybe say "if you've packed your stuff and are out by such and such a date I'll give you 500 bucks when you're gone and turn in your key?"
It's not justice and it sucks but if it avoids eviction and keeps the apt maybe worth it?
So we have a rough plan of action. I know this is shitty because you guys have been helpful but I don’t want to publicize it just in case he somehow found my account here (extremely unlikely but just the same...)
Lawyer is guiding us through something that may work. Will update you guys soon.
So we have a rough plan of action. I know this is shitty because you guys have been helpful but I don’t want to publicize it just in case he somehow found my account here (extremely unlikely but just the same...)
Lawyer is guiding us through something that may work. Will update you guys soon.
Yea, don't feel bad about that at all Drez.
But do totally update us when it is safe for you to do so.
Just a question, how much stuff, does this guy actually have?
Is it just the clothes on his back?
What I'm asking is, if you stealth move out when he is gone, and fill out the paperwork, and the landlord locks out the apartment. It sounds like the uninvited guest might have a claim against the landlord, maybe.
So instead of trying to work with the landlord to change the locks to get this guy out, trick the landlord into changing the locks to get this guy out? I may be missunderstanding the plan here.
I mean...yeah...ok I can see how that sounds shady.
So we have a rough plan of action. I know this is shitty because you guys have been helpful but I don’t want to publicize it just in case he somehow found my account here (extremely unlikely but just the same...)
Lawyer is guiding us through something that may work. Will update you guys soon.
Yea, don't feel bad about that at all Drez.
But do totally update us when it is safe for you to do so.
I do have one more question. Anyone know anything about renter’s insurance? What’s the best way to go about finding that?
Find out from friends of family members on what they use.
Google your area to see who has the best rates, maybe talk to a local agent (some will do 3-4 companies).
I mean for rental insurance it's barely a deal anyway, it's so cheap and the coverage is pretty simple. I've always just gone through whoever I had my car insurance with.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I do have one more question. Anyone know anything about renter’s insurance? What’s the best way to go about finding that?
Find out from friends of family members on what they use.
Google your area to see who has the best rates, maybe talk to a local agent (some will do 3-4 companies).
Thanks. I actually don’t know anyone that has or, or at least I don’t know
I just got a quote from Geico, which is saying $12 a month. I guess that’s not bad.
Does my roommate need to get his own coverage or will this cover both of us? This quote isn’t clear so I’m assuming it only covers me. (The building requires it now.)
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This is probably illegal in the sense of violation of a contract illegal not necessarily illegal as in criminal crime illegal. Though IANAL and all.
It might be the cleanest way of getting out though and shifts the legal burden to him suing you rather than you trying to get vague authorities to act against him. I would definitely have a long talk to the lawyer about legal exposure though. NYC will probably be looking at you with fines and what not. Knowing what you'd be exposing yourself to there would be an important step in evaluating that course of action.
Oh and if you do that I'd think you definitely need to move. The nightmare scenario would be months of litigation and fines and then facing a court order to allow him to resume tenancy.
Ultimately, what the rental company wants is for everyone to be gone at the end of the lease, and they'll do this through eviction if necessary, the costs for which they'll recoup through you and good roommate. What you and good roommate want is for bad roommate to be gone but not to get dinged with the credit hit for eviction in your name. This way both of you might get what you want with the least amount of personal hurt.
The lawyer did say this could be a possibility, but it presents a few challenges:
1) Could be very expensive. Lawyer said it could be 5000-10000 in and of itself.
2) We would then need to find another apartment. Which is additional costs on top of that.
3) There's no guarantee they would even go for this. Of course we can find that out by asking, but...
4) We'd have to give up the apartment. It's a great apartment and my roommate and I really don't want to give it up unless we literally have no other choice.
5) Cost of the apartment is much less expensive than another one. And our renewal terms only have it increasing by 2% which is pretty great.
My savings is unfortunately a little thin right now so option #1 + option #2 would be rough and frankly not very possible.
That and/or forgiving what he owes on the utilities.
I know that that stings but as you really want to stay in the unit, plus he's digging in his heels hard, it may be in your interest to give him the appearance of winning on one front.
Obviously, get it in writing the instant he agrees, if that happens
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ed: I mean, my understanding is that 1) this person has not signed the lease 2) the lease allows signors (you) to take on occupants/sublets and 3) you have such an arrangement with this person with no further documentation. If that's the case it ought to be a fairly simple matter of giving him notice, though you'll have to wait him out
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
My guess is that even though bad roommate is only an occupant, Drez said bad roommate was paying the complex directly for rent. So the complex becomes his de facto landlord, not Drez, and the complex is the only one who can evict.
And if they're doing an eviction they're just going to name everyone on the lease and living there. Joint and several liability and all that.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Because that would be illegal.
Generally speaking, once someone has established residence in a place, contract/lease or no, getting them out again is a complicated and time-consuming issue. If your deadbeat couch-surfing cousin moves in with you and stays for a couple months, guess what? He lives there now, and you can't just kick him out without going through the eviction process.
Note that, generally, these rules are good-to-have because they prevent scummy landlords from kicking people out at a moment's whim.
That doesn't mean they don't result in undeserved annoyance and pain some of the time, though.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
They do even if it isn't documented, like their reference to the cousin on the couch for a few weeks.
Drez has already mentioned that Bad Roomate is on the lease as a resident because they have shitty credit and weren't approved to be one of the leasers.
This is the bit I don't get re: evicting Drez.
The landlord agreed to take him on as an "occupant," and he agreed to be one. If he refuses to leave, why can't they just proceed against him?
I'm curious if it's just a scare tactic to motivate Drez to ensure he leaves?
Presumedly everyone on the lease is jointly responsible in an eviction, same as drez would be responsible for his roommates' shares of the rent if they decided to stop paying.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
That seems really dumb, but as Drez has consulted a lawyer and they agreed this was likely, I don't think it's the landlord just going with scare tactics.
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I guess so
Dredged up a remarkably similar Reddit thread in which several people noted that treating all tennants as one entity is pretty normal.
Drez: Is it possible to sue the Goosemate for damages? Or is that more or less what the retainer is already for?
If so, does he know that, and would the risk of you taking all his shit and garnishing his wages be something he might find motivational?
Is it just the clothes on his back?
What I'm asking is, if you stealth move out when he is gone, and fill out the paperwork, and the landlord locks out the apartment. It sounds like the uninvited guest might have a claim against the landlord, maybe.
So instead of trying to work with the landlord to change the locks to get this guy out, trick the landlord into changing the locks to get this guy out? I may be missunderstanding the plan here.
The people who are technically on the hook for money are the actual tenants though.
Drez would still be liable to pay rent if this dude keeps pushing on that end too. However Drez can take this dude to court to sue him to get back money for unpaid rent and utilities if he has proof this guy didn't pay him.
This is also why you never take cash and always checks so you have a paper trail to go "Well you see your honor, Dick-roommate didn't pay me starting in January until October" as you hand them your bank statements showing a lack of deposits from that checking account. Any incidental stuff, like staying past a lease, you could also sue.
TBH drez should start sooner rather than later, a lawsuit might light a fire under this dude's ass to figure his shit the fuck out. Hopefully it falls under the purview of small claims or else it gets much more expensive. Also if y'all still live there you should probably start proceedings to evict your roommate for non payment.
Outside of that, I have no advice, but I'm sorry for the shitty situation.
parents, family, friends, etc
but that's not really drez's problem, that's shitface's problem
It's not justice and it sucks but if it avoids eviction and keeps the apt maybe worth it?
other than that I have no clue.
Lawyer is guiding us through something that may work. Will update you guys soon.
Yea, don't feel bad about that at all Drez.
But do totally update us when it is safe for you to do so.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Find out from friends of family members on what they use.
Google your area to see who has the best rates, maybe talk to a local agent (some will do 3-4 companies).
I mean for rental insurance it's barely a deal anyway, it's so cheap and the coverage is pretty simple. I've always just gone through whoever I had my car insurance with.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
Thanks. I actually don’t know anyone that has or, or at least I don’t know
I just got a quote from Geico, which is saying $12 a month. I guess that’s not bad.
Does my roommate need to get his own coverage or will this cover both of us? This quote isn’t clear so I’m assuming it only covers me. (The building requires it now.)