It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.
And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.
This would be incredibly stupid for the Turkish government to lie about, so it isn't impossible, but the fact that the guy went in but didn't come oit does give them some credibility here.
I don’t think it gives credibility to the recording existing. It gives huge credibility to the fact that the man was murdered in there but we know this already.
The chances involved, bugging that specific room, being willing to disclose that you were bugging a consulate. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me. I’ll believe it if they release it, I’m not dumb, but not a second before that.
It should be assumed that every room in every embassy/consulate is bugged. You can't expect to fart in an embassy and have privacy.
Yeah, the possibility of a consulate being bugged up down and sideways isn’t any stretch, hell in the 80s we even had bugs in the soviet embassy xerox machines.
It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.
And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.
This would be incredibly stupid for the Turkish government to lie about, so it isn't impossible, but the fact that the guy went in but didn't come oit does give them some credibility here.
I don’t think it gives credibility to the recording existing. It gives huge credibility to the fact that the man was murdered in there but we know this already.
The chances involved, bugging that specific room, being willing to disclose that you were bugging a consulate. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me. I’ll believe it if they release it, I’m not dumb, but not a second before that.
It should be assumed that every room in every embassy/consulate is bugged. You can't expect to fart in an embassy and have privacy.
It seems to be a public secret that every country uses their embassies as intelligence bases of operations
It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.
And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.
This would be incredibly stupid for the Turkish government to lie about, so it isn't impossible, but the fact that the guy went in but didn't come oit does give them some credibility here.
I don’t think it gives credibility to the recording existing. It gives huge credibility to the fact that the man was murdered in there but we know this already.
The chances involved, bugging that specific room, being willing to disclose that you were bugging a consulate. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me. I’ll believe it if they release it, I’m not dumb, but not a second before that.
It should be assumed that every room in every embassy/consulate is bugged. You can't expect to fart in an embassy and have privacy.
It seems to be a public secret that every country uses their embassies as intelligence bases of operations
Its not even that. Everybody knows that embassies are actually spy bases, its just that the benefits of having communications with potential enemies outweighs the risks. That and it lets you know where the enemy spies are hiding.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
It seems a hell of a fluke if that room in particular was bugged. It feels more likely to me that someone among the people there recorded, for whatever reason he would do that.
And as much as I don’t doubt something like that happened it’s probably also good to remember that Turkish authorities are also assholes who lie daily. If that audio snippet doesn’t hit today I’m gonna assume they made it up.
This would be incredibly stupid for the Turkish government to lie about, so it isn't impossible, but the fact that the guy went in but didn't come oit does give them some credibility here.
I don’t think it gives credibility to the recording existing. It gives huge credibility to the fact that the man was murdered in there but we know this already.
The chances involved, bugging that specific room, being willing to disclose that you were bugging a consulate. It just doesn’t seem plausible to me. I’ll believe it if they release it, I’m not dumb, but not a second before that.
It should be assumed that every room in every embassy/consulate is bugged. You can't expect to fart in an embassy and have privacy.
It seems to be a public secret that every country uses their embassies as intelligence bases of operations
Its not even that. Everybody knows that embassies are actually spy bases, its just that the benefits of having communications with potential enemies outweighs the risks. That and it lets you know where the enemy spies are hiding.
Embassies and consulates serve other interests too. They facilitate public diplomacy (which is one reason why non state actors, semi autonomous actors, and rebel movements set up de facto embassy "offices" like the LTTE and the KRG), provide services for citizens abroad, can serve as a signal from one state to the other that there is confidence in the diplomatic relationship or not (keeping the embassy open or closing it and withdrawing personnel), serve as offices for international development programs, facilitate contact between specialized officials on topics like trade and military cooperation etc.
There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
The fact that they are leaking the fact that they clearly have the saudi embassy bugged from top to bottom about this instead of keeping that under their hat I think is a sign this was too WTF even for the turks to keep a wrap on.
Yeah, the possibility of a consulate being bugged up down and sideways isn’t any stretch, hell in the 80s we even had bugs in the soviet embassy xerox machines.
We had to stop using our russian embassy because it was literally compromised from the foundation to the roof with bugs implanted during construction.
There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
The fact that they are leaking the fact that they clearly have the saudi embassy bugged from top to bottom about this instead of keeping that under their hat I think is a sign this was too WTF even for the turks to keep a wrap on.
It works both ways too. If Turkey intelligence claimed not to have a recording, they'd come of as either lying or incompetent because that's pretty much the first thing you put listening devices in.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
The fact that they are leaking the fact that they clearly have the saudi embassy bugged from top to bottom about this instead of keeping that under their hat I think is a sign this was too WTF even for the turks to keep a wrap on.
Consulates are also not generally sovereign soil - since this happened in a consulate and not an embassy, it was on Turkish soil. So it's more than just being a fucked up situation, but being a fucked up situation they have jurisdiction over.
The worst part is you know these guys have probably all done it a dozen times before.
No, the worst part of all of this is that the president of the united states would rather give benefit of the doubt to the Saudi government (even after they admitted that this happened) then accept what is blatantly obvious.
It's political correctness gone mad.
+2
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
The fact that they are leaking the fact that they clearly have the saudi embassy bugged from top to bottom about this instead of keeping that under their hat I think is a sign this was too WTF even for the turks to keep a wrap on.
Consulates are also not generally sovereign soil - since this happened in a consulate and not an embassy, it was on Turkish soil. So it's more than just being a fucked up situation, but being a fucked up situation they have jurisdiction over.
I didn't even pick up that this was the consulate and not the embassy. Instanbul, not Ankara, duh.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
There's like.... in some world, someone would point out that the Turks probably aren't supposed to be have a recording of anything that goes on inside the Saudi embassy, because that'd be an illegal violation of embassy privileges, but... wtfwtfwtfwtfwtf
The fact that they are leaking the fact that they clearly have the saudi embassy bugged from top to bottom about this instead of keeping that under their hat I think is a sign this was too WTF even for the turks to keep a wrap on.
It works both ways too. If Turkey intelligence claimed not to have a recording, they'd come of as either lying or incompetent because that's pretty much the first thing you put listening devices in.
Well the normal option is to not broadcast it because there is an advantage to keeping potential opponents in the dark about what you do know and what you don't know. The normal play is low key hinting but keep them in the dark as to how bad the penetration is. The turks are out here with bull horns yeling we got all this on tape is pretty telling how deep their penetration of that embassy was and how little they care that people know it.
You know what I hate the most about Saudi Arabia? Apart from the religious extremism, war in Yemen, oppression of women/ethnic/religious minorities, totalitarian dictatorship(called a monarchy to make it sound better) and all around being stuck in the dark ages?
Its the fact that the country is called Saudi Arabia. Saud is the name of the rulling house, they named the country after themselves. Like its their personal property. Like if Trump changed the name of the USA into United states of Trump or something. I know its petty, but it really pisses me off. Totally grinds my gears and yes that is a family guy reference.
Not that odd by any kind of historical standards. Less so in Europe where country names tended to come from place names or tribal names but out of Europe it used to be pretty common. See ottoman empire, china (which is an anachronistic reference to the Qing dynasty that never fell out of fashion in the west), the Selucids, Abbassids, Fatimids, and so on. Even in the west it wouldn’t have been unusual to refer to, say, Bourbon France or Hapsburg Spain.
That saudi arabia still uses the term is more a function of them being one of the last monarchys than any particular egoism.
Jordan's official name is also the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, after the ruling Hashemite dynasty.
+2
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Trump is pulling the US out of the UPU because China because reasons. It's fucking stupid and nonsensical.
I have, but that's because I'm a nerd who collected stamps for a time.
Also, fucking goddamnit. We helped create the damn thing, too. Mostly because immigrants mailing stuff back home was annoying as hell for the Post Office in the 1800's.
This is related to US / Saudi Arabian relations but not to the Khashoggi murder.
According to The Intercept, The Saudi Crown Prince boasted that Kushner was “in his pocket”, and claimed that Kushner passed information to him on high level Saudi officials who were disloyal to him.
Information Kushner read in the President’s Daily Brief, the daily report prepared by US intelligence that us intended only to be read by the President and his closest advisors.
This is related to US / Saudi Arabian relations but not to the Khashoggi murder.
According to The Intercept, The Saudi Crown Prince boasted that Kushner was “in his pocket”, and claimed that Kushner passed information to him on high level Saudi officials who were disloyal to him.
Information Kushner read in the President’s Daily Brief, the daily report prepared by US intelligence that us intended only to be read by the President and his closest advisors.
Well... as someone who the intelligence agencies felt was deserving of the highest security clearances, why shouldn't he be routinely reading the PDB?
*picks up non-ringing phone* What? Really? Oh, OK then.
Yeah, just a reminder that Kushner is compromised as fuck. Not just to the Saudis. He shouldn't be allowed in the White House, let alone secure meetings or access to secure documents. Heck, he shouldn't be allowed in any government building, down to the Post Office level.
Even after they're finally removed from office, the repercussions of the damage that the Trump family is doing to the intelligence apparatus is going to plague the agencies for a long fucking time.
+14
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
...at least someone is still reading the PDB's? Even if they're agents of a foreign power.
It'd be a horrible action to take for a number of reasons, but I would be amused if the intelligence community decided to start tweaking the PDB to take advantage of this.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
...at least someone is still reading the PDB's? Even if they're agents of a foreign power.
It'd be a horrible action to take for a number of reasons, but I would be amused if the intelligence community decided to start tweaking the PDB to take advantage of this.
...at least someone is still reading the PDB's? Even if they're agents of a foreign power.
It'd be a horrible action to take for a number of reasons, but I would be amused if the intelligence community decided to start tweaking the PDB to take advantage of this.
Isn't that already allegedly happening? I thought I read reporting that some intelligence agencies are curating exactly what they tell the President to avoid compromising intelligence sources and/or methods. Not insofar as they're actively lying, but giving just enough to give the gist of things, and if the President doesn't ask for clarification (and he's known to be incurious as fuck), well, why go into detail and have someone else compromise things? I'm sure I read this not long after the Kislyak meeting at the start of Trump's tenure, where he all but compromised Israeli intelligence? Remember that? 15,000 scandals ago?
Cause for all the claims of Hillary being a security risk, the current Administration appears to be the absolute fucking worst when it comes to information security. The Kushner/Saudi compromisation is just the latest in a long line of domestic and foreign security leaks.
Bolton, who has spent his career opposing arms control treaties, is seeking to shrug off the traditional role of national security adviser as a policy broker between the agencies, and become a driver of radical change from within the White House.
Former US officials say Bolton is blocking talks on extending the 2010 New Start treaty with Russia limiting deployed strategic nuclear warheads and their delivery systems. The treaty is due to expire in 2021 and Moscow has signaled its interest in an extension, but Bolton is opposing the resumption of a strategic stability dialogue to discuss the future of arms control between the two countries.
Worrying about a large scale nuclear exchange should be put on the same shelf as the yellowstone caldera and getting hit by lightning while a shark attacks you.
Worrying about a large scale nuclear exchange should be put on the same shelf as the yellowstone caldera and getting hit by lightning while a shark attacks you.
Donald Trump can start s nuclear war any time he wants. Sleep well!
Worrying about a large scale nuclear exchange should be put on the same shelf as the yellowstone caldera and getting hit by lightning while a shark attacks you.
Donald Trump can start s nuclear war any time he wants. Sleep well!
Nixon was drunk one night and tried. I'll sleep fine.
Worrying about a large scale nuclear exchange should be put on the same shelf as the yellowstone caldera and getting hit by lightning while a shark attacks you.
Donald Trump can start s nuclear war any time he wants. Sleep well!
Nixon was drunk one night and tried. I'll sleep fine.
Nixon didn't express a combination of stunted emotional development and a desire to normalize the use of Nukes.
Worrying about a large scale nuclear exchange should be put on the same shelf as the yellowstone caldera and getting hit by lightning while a shark attacks you.
Donald Trump can start s nuclear war any time he wants. Sleep well!
Nixon was drunk one night and tried. I'll sleep fine.
The fact that one of the two known decisions to use nuclear weapons by a US president was rebuffed by a less stupid subordinate refusing orders is not nearly as reassuring as you seem to think.
Kaputa on
+45
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
New START was a fucking miracle when it happened. I'm so fucking mad that Bolton is getting in the way of the next iteration of it. Trump is probably too stupid to understand it and the INF to have wanted to do this of his own mind.
New START was a fucking miracle when it happened. I'm so fucking mad that Bolton is getting in the way of the next iteration of it. Trump is probably too stupid to understand it and the INF to have wanted to do this of his own mind.
It's so stupid. It doesn't add a thing to security. We have enough firepower to kill everyone on the planet, treaty or no. So more is just a dick waving contest.
+2
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
New START was a fucking miracle when it happened. I'm so fucking mad that Bolton is getting in the way of the next iteration of it. Trump is probably too stupid to understand it and the INF to have wanted to do this of his own mind.
It's so stupid. It doesn't add a thing to security. We have enough firepower to kill everyone on the planet, treaty or no. So more is just a dick waving contest.
It's a lack of understanding what a single detonation can do. In Trump's 5 year old brain, he thinks it's just a big boom. Atmospheric damage, nuclear material hanging in the wind, all of that shit is an unknown to him and he's at the point where being told about it now would be shrugged off as fake or not a big deal, etc.
New START was a fucking miracle when it happened. I'm so fucking mad that Bolton is getting in the way of the next iteration of it. Trump is probably too stupid to understand it and the INF to have wanted to do this of his own mind.
He certainly doesn't know the names of the treaties, or the particulars, but don't forget that this happened literally a year ago.
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump said he wanted what amounted to a nearly tenfold increase in the U.S. nuclear arsenal during a gathering this past summer of the nation’s highest-ranking national security leaders, according to three officials who were in the room.
Posts
It should be assumed that every room in every embassy/consulate is bugged. You can't expect to fart in an embassy and have privacy.
It seems to be a public secret that every country uses their embassies as intelligence bases of operations
Its not even that. Everybody knows that embassies are actually spy bases, its just that the benefits of having communications with potential enemies outweighs the risks. That and it lets you know where the enemy spies are hiding.
Embassies and consulates serve other interests too. They facilitate public diplomacy (which is one reason why non state actors, semi autonomous actors, and rebel movements set up de facto embassy "offices" like the LTTE and the KRG), provide services for citizens abroad, can serve as a signal from one state to the other that there is confidence in the diplomatic relationship or not (keeping the embassy open or closing it and withdrawing personnel), serve as offices for international development programs, facilitate contact between specialized officials on topics like trade and military cooperation etc.
The fact that they are leaking the fact that they clearly have the saudi embassy bugged from top to bottom about this instead of keeping that under their hat I think is a sign this was too WTF even for the turks to keep a wrap on.
We had to stop using our russian embassy because it was literally compromised from the foundation to the roof with bugs implanted during construction.
It works both ways too. If Turkey intelligence claimed not to have a recording, they'd come of as either lying or incompetent because that's pretty much the first thing you put listening devices in.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Consulates are also not generally sovereign soil - since this happened in a consulate and not an embassy, it was on Turkish soil. So it's more than just being a fucked up situation, but being a fucked up situation they have jurisdiction over.
It's political correctness gone mad.
I didn't even pick up that this was the consulate and not the embassy. Instanbul, not Ankara, duh.
Well the normal option is to not broadcast it because there is an advantage to keeping potential opponents in the dark about what you do know and what you don't know. The normal play is low key hinting but keep them in the dark as to how bad the penetration is. The turks are out here with bull horns yeling we got all this on tape is pretty telling how deep their penetration of that embassy was and how little they care that people know it.
https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/222127/howd-khashoggi-get-the-works-thats-nobodys-knowledge-but-the-turks
Jordan's official name is also the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, after the ruling Hashemite dynasty.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/411828-us-announces-intent-to-withdraw-from-international-postal-rate-system
Trump is pulling the US out of the UPU because China because reasons. It's fucking stupid and nonsensical.
I have, but that's because I'm a nerd who collected stamps for a time.
Also, fucking goddamnit. We helped create the damn thing, too. Mostly because immigrants mailing stuff back home was annoying as hell for the Post Office in the 1800's.
I would be surprised if we actually pull out of the UPU. I suspect this is actually a negotiating tactic.
According to The Intercept, The Saudi Crown Prince boasted that Kushner was “in his pocket”, and claimed that Kushner passed information to him on high level Saudi officials who were disloyal to him.
Information Kushner read in the President’s Daily Brief, the daily report prepared by US intelligence that us intended only to be read by the President and his closest advisors.
Well... as someone who the intelligence agencies felt was deserving of the highest security clearances, why shouldn't he be routinely reading the PDB?
*picks up non-ringing phone* What? Really? Oh, OK then.
Yeah, just a reminder that Kushner is compromised as fuck. Not just to the Saudis. He shouldn't be allowed in the White House, let alone secure meetings or access to secure documents. Heck, he shouldn't be allowed in any government building, down to the Post Office level.
Even after they're finally removed from office, the repercussions of the damage that the Trump family is doing to the intelligence apparatus is going to plague the agencies for a long fucking time.
It'd be a horrible action to take for a number of reasons, but I would be amused if the intelligence community decided to start tweaking the PDB to take advantage of this.
Well, it’s not like the President is reading it.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Isn't that already allegedly happening? I thought I read reporting that some intelligence agencies are curating exactly what they tell the President to avoid compromising intelligence sources and/or methods. Not insofar as they're actively lying, but giving just enough to give the gist of things, and if the President doesn't ask for clarification (and he's known to be incurious as fuck), well, why go into detail and have someone else compromise things? I'm sure I read this not long after the Kislyak meeting at the start of Trump's tenure, where he all but compromised Israeli intelligence? Remember that? 15,000 scandals ago?
Cause for all the claims of Hillary being a security risk, the current Administration appears to be the absolute fucking worst when it comes to information security. The Kushner/Saudi compromisation is just the latest in a long line of domestic and foreign security leaks.
Ankit Panda is a senior editor of The Diplomat.
Bolton appears behind this because of course.
Panda thinks this may be more related to China.
Donald Trump can start s nuclear war any time he wants. Sleep well!
Nixon was drunk one night and tried. I'll sleep fine.
Nixon didn't express a combination of stunted emotional development and a desire to normalize the use of Nukes.
It's so stupid. It doesn't add a thing to security. We have enough firepower to kill everyone on the planet, treaty or no. So more is just a dick waving contest.
He certainly doesn't know the names of the treaties, or the particulars, but don't forget that this happened literally a year ago.
*11 October 2017* *11 October 2017*
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsenal-meeting-military-leaders-n809701
He wants more nukes because nukes are powerful and he's still living in the 80's. Hell, I hope nobody tells him about the Tsar Bomba.