Alfonse is actually the unit in question here, I was trying to see if I could secure a bonus kill vs a Desperation Ayra in the arena. Do you think Deflect Melee is superior to Brazen ATK/RES as far as seals go?
If you are running vantage alongside it, my opinion is yes. Without vantage, no.
My experience with the combination of vantage/deflect melee is that it acts like a weird cousin to a merger of wary fighter and guard.
It's similar to wary fighter because because the enemy follow up gets reduced to basically nothing. The only real effect of note from the opponent's follow up is that both you and the opponent generate special charge. It's kind of like guard because special activations also get reduced to basically nothing if they activate during the opponents follow up attack. You can't always guarantee that, but you can a lot of the time since a lot of people specifically choose their specials as ones that go off if they get an opportunity to double. His sky high defense, pseudo wary fighter, and the potential to negate specials is what makes him a beast against most all physical melee opponents.
Often combat plays out like this :
Alfonse initiates > opponent connects a full strength counter attack (Alfonse's HP falls into vantage and brazen range) > opponent executes a dramatically weakened follow up attack that hits for pennies and finishes charging Alfonse's bonfire. Even if they have a special activation, this follow up will barely scratch Alfonse with deflect melee active. Then, during the opponents turn, they attack Alfonse but he strikes first with a bonfire boosted attack, usually for a KO. If they survive somehow, then they'll hit for one attack and then execute a weak follow up.
So all in all, Alfonse sort of gets two attacks off where one is boosted by bonfire and double brazens, before the opponent can even execute a second full strength attack.
You'll want to watch out for slaying edge Ayra since she can reliably trigger Regnal Astra with her first attack against this Alfonse, and you'll want to watch out for dragons since deflect melee doesn't work on dragons.
Edit:
I posted my Alfonse build on the last page. I think that he gets the most value out of defense refined Folkvagner. The rest of the skills I think can be inherited from 4* units. I think that even (odd?) defense wave would be a better C skill, but I don't have access to it. I was just trying to virtually boost his defenses higher.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited October 2018
Personally I always just throw Close Defense on my Arena bonus hero. I figure +6 DEF/RES is nice for everyone, and no one runs ranged at my level of arena (at least not often... sometimes I see green mages now). But then my strategy is generally to pick someone tanky as fuck if I can, since with the bonus stats they get they can basically ignore the weapon triangle. Only problem I've run into so far are dragons - it's a bitch to get decent Res on a lot of heroes :/
Honestly I don't use the Deflect seals hardly at all. I probably should upgrade them at some point. I'm just not sure if I like "the second hit is weaker" better than "both hits are weaker." Though I can see an argument for Bold Fighter armors who like to charge their special on the first hit and then murderate on the second... (like friggin' Zelgius who'll do 0 damage followed by an 80 damage Black Luna or some bullshit)
For most units, I'd agree with running close defense. But I think that Alfonse benefits more from vantage/deflect melee. It's just so sweet watching specials get reduced to next to nothing.
Edit:
Oh, you edited. Yeah, denying black Lunas, aethers, and bonfires is a lot of the draw. But for slow pokes that constantly get doubled, deflect melee protects for a lot more than close defense. Close defense protects against at most twelve points of damage whereas deflect melee nearly completely negates the second attack. The deflect skill is also live during both the player and enemy phases.
Again, in general close def is far better but on units like Alfonse and Michalis deflect is extremely potent.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
For most units, I'd agree with running close defense. But I think that Alfonse benefits more from vantage/deflect melee. It's just so sweet watching specials get reduced to next to nothing.
Honestly I haven't played around with him much. I should actually try his refine with the new brazen seal... I imagine it's appropriately nuts...
I'm not sure what build works best with triple brazen. Res refined Folkvagner might be more appealing to round out his defenses. I don't know what the best B skill is for that.
The reason that I think that deflect melee wins out over triple brazen is because despite the ludicrous raw stat gain from the brazens, he's still slow and is at high risk of eating a special. Triple brazens shoring up your defenses likely won't hold up that well against a special activation.
His attack might be getting up there where he could threaten OHKO's against a lot of units with a bit of support, but armors and dragons will probably still survive most hits that aren't bolstered by a special of your own.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure what build works best with triple brazen. Res refined Folkvagner might be more appealing to round out his defenses. I don't know what the best B skill is for that.
The reason that I think that deflect melee wins out over triple brazen is because despite the ludicrous raw stat gain from the brazens, he's still slow and is at high risk of eating a special. Triple brazens shoring up your defenses likely won't hold up that well against a special activation.
His attack might be getting up there where he could threaten OHKO's against a lot of units with a bit of support, but armors and dragons will probably still survive most hits that aren't bolstered by a special of your own.
Well I imagine you take the triple brazen for the attack more than anything. Honestly if you're worried about specials, Guard may be a valid option. Something like Chill Attack could work too...
I still think that taking the closest thing that infantry can equip to wary fighter is worth more than an extra 7 attack. It pretty much guarantees that he lives long enough for the brazens to kick in in the first place.
Super pumped to get another merge for my +1 brazen attack/def and Wrath Marisa, but I hope this isn't their "solution" to the problem of TT unit merges. Still just incredibly slow and random.
I still think that a wildcard merge item would be good. They could pass them out as grand prizes for tempest trials or as other relatively rare loot. That would open the door for merging TT units or the askr trio, but IMO the rate that players could merge units with the wildcard item would still be low enough that I don't think that it would cheapen the merged units that whales have in their arsenals.
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DuriniaEvolved from Space PotatoesRegistered Userregular
Ok - attempting to do lemons->lemonade. I got pity broken by a +HP/-SPD Brave Roy, which is way worse than my other one.
Maybe it's time to build a Galeforce unit? Who should I use?
For business reasons, I must preserve the outward sign of sanity.
--Mark Twain
Cherche, Cordelia, Soleil, Raven. None are 5* exclusives, all of them can be built into some of the most dangerous offensive units in the game. Cherche, Cordy, and Soleil in particular also support a good variety of possible builds, too, but they're all great as Galeforce sweepers and can have the offensive stats needed to support Heavy/Flashing Blade to ensure that you're getting the Galeforces up as early as possible.
After my disappointment that Seth couldn't learn steady breath, I found a solid plan B. I'm out of feathers for now, but. I do plan on continuing to merge him. He will be quite the tank!
+1
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
That's an incredibly random banner? There's got to be something to this Paralogue...
It almost feels to me like the Farfetched Heroes one they did last time, since I'm pretty sure these three characters were ranked pretty high on the CYL2 voting. But it also feels like the kind of thing we normally would have gotten a Feh Channel to announce because it's such an oddball thing...
Loki ranked #10, Owain ranked #26, Kliff ranked #33. Every other character ahead of them is already in the game with the exception of Selkie who is a beast and therefore complicated... (I can only assume they have some grand plan for beast heroes at this point - I'm sure they have seen how much they are wanted)
And if we ignore Keaton who is also a beast, Aversa is the next in line at #41. Ha
So fortress Def/Res boosts both more than fort def or fort res, and has a lower atk penalty to boot?
Yeah it's like an almost usable version of Fortress Def and/or Res... -2 Attack is a bit easier to swallow, especially when you're getting so many defensive stats out of it...
Well I know what's replacing my Arden's Earth Boost. Now if only I could get it in seal form. I already ran fortress def seal on Arden. He had enough ATK to lose a few points, and he mostly kills things with 44 point Ignis bombs anyway.
Yeah, it does. The cooldown -1 from Killer weapons is a decrease from the base cooldown count, so for example a cooldown that normally starts at 3 will start at 2, both at the beginning of the stage and after the Special is used. The cooldown -1 from Wrath is a decrease from the current cooldown count at the start of the turn, so if the count starts at 3 and is currently at 2, the count will become 1 at the start of the turn, and after the special activates it will start over from 3 again. In other words, they stack because they're different effects.
Edit: I remember the first unit with Wrath, Nephenee, also came with Slaying Lance, so this synergy was there from the start.
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Dr. Flamingo49 Gilded Disc Perceives the SunRegistered Userregular
FARFETCHED HEROES 2! I DIDN'T THINK THEY'D ACTUALLY DO ONE!
...Yeah, there's nobody I care about here. Probably for the best, still chasing Myrrh.
As an aside, Soul Calibur 6 has a very robust character-creator in game. This has resulted in some people getting pretty creative putting in other franchises' characters.
As an aside, Soul Calibur 6 has a very robust character-creator in game. This has resulted in some people getting pretty creative putting in other franchises' characters.
The timing of this banner and conspicuous exclusion of beast characters have finally convinced me that they're coming in 3.0. None of these 3 really light me on fire, so I will hold my orbs.
Kliff looks the most fun, but in SOV he always kinda sucked for me, so I never grew to love him.
If Tibarn or Caineghis really show up soon, I'll be glad I have the orbs!
As an aside, Soul Calibur 6 has a very robust character-creator in game. This has resulted in some people getting pretty creative putting in other franchises' characters.
The timing of this banner and conspicuous exclusion of beast characters have finally convinced me that they're coming in 3.0. None of these 3 really light me on fire, so I will hold my orbs.
Honestly I think so. I think CYL2 was basically a big "Hey, add beast characters already!" megahorn for them, and they've had since January to figure out how they want to actually do that. I've been watching a let's play of Path of Radiance lately and it kinda makes me wonder if they might do something more similar to that game, if only to differentiate them from current dragons more (that is to say, they alternate between human and beast form, and in beast form are much stronger)
Hot Take: Loki is nowhere near as interesting as Veronica
I don't know that many people would disagree with this.
Veronica is just really fucking good. Peshkatz is an outrageously high value effect, and having it on a healer is invaluable for a lot of PvE content. Even well after those units came out, my assessment hasn't changed: Hector/Ephraim/Celica are all quite good and possibly even the best at what they do, but Veronica was the addition there that does something truly unique. Very happy with my decision to claim her with the free selection, and I'm going to try to get a merge or two on her every time she comes up in a banner.
Also, Veronica is more interesting as a character than loki. Although to be honest, I don't think that the writing about Veronica is particularly stellar. That said, she's a character that I'd like to learn more about. Meanwhile loki is an exceptionally shallow character by any standard. Basically just a big bosom and blatant hints of a bigger bad guy in the shadows.
Hot Take: Loki is nowhere near as interesting as Veronica
I don't know that many people would disagree with this.
Veronica is just really fucking good. Peshkatz is an outrageously high value effect, and having it on a healer is invaluable for a lot of PvE content. Even well after those units came out, my assessment hasn't changed: Hector/Ephraim/Celica are all quite good and possibly even the best at what they do, but Veronica was the addition there that does something truly unique. Very happy with my decision to claim her with the free selection, and I'm going to try to get a merge or two on her every time she comes up in a banner.
just give her one of those BST skills and she will be an arena champ
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Posts
My experience with the combination of vantage/deflect melee is that it acts like a weird cousin to a merger of wary fighter and guard.
It's similar to wary fighter because because the enemy follow up gets reduced to basically nothing. The only real effect of note from the opponent's follow up is that both you and the opponent generate special charge. It's kind of like guard because special activations also get reduced to basically nothing if they activate during the opponents follow up attack. You can't always guarantee that, but you can a lot of the time since a lot of people specifically choose their specials as ones that go off if they get an opportunity to double. His sky high defense, pseudo wary fighter, and the potential to negate specials is what makes him a beast against most all physical melee opponents.
Often combat plays out like this :
Alfonse initiates > opponent connects a full strength counter attack (Alfonse's HP falls into vantage and brazen range) > opponent executes a dramatically weakened follow up attack that hits for pennies and finishes charging Alfonse's bonfire. Even if they have a special activation, this follow up will barely scratch Alfonse with deflect melee active. Then, during the opponents turn, they attack Alfonse but he strikes first with a bonfire boosted attack, usually for a KO. If they survive somehow, then they'll hit for one attack and then execute a weak follow up.
So all in all, Alfonse sort of gets two attacks off where one is boosted by bonfire and double brazens, before the opponent can even execute a second full strength attack.
You'll want to watch out for slaying edge Ayra since she can reliably trigger Regnal Astra with her first attack against this Alfonse, and you'll want to watch out for dragons since deflect melee doesn't work on dragons.
Edit:
I posted my Alfonse build on the last page. I think that he gets the most value out of defense refined Folkvagner. The rest of the skills I think can be inherited from 4* units. I think that even (odd?) defense wave would be a better C skill, but I don't have access to it. I was just trying to virtually boost his defenses higher.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Honestly I don't use the Deflect seals hardly at all. I probably should upgrade them at some point. I'm just not sure if I like "the second hit is weaker" better than "both hits are weaker." Though I can see an argument for Bold Fighter armors who like to charge their special on the first hit and then murderate on the second... (like friggin' Zelgius who'll do 0 damage followed by an 80 damage Black Luna or some bullshit)
Edit:
Oh, you edited. Yeah, denying black Lunas, aethers, and bonfires is a lot of the draw. But for slow pokes that constantly get doubled, deflect melee protects for a lot more than close defense. Close defense protects against at most twelve points of damage whereas deflect melee nearly completely negates the second attack. The deflect skill is also live during both the player and enemy phases.
Again, in general close def is far better but on units like Alfonse and Michalis deflect is extremely potent.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Honestly I haven't played around with him much. I should actually try his refine with the new brazen seal... I imagine it's appropriately nuts...
The reason that I think that deflect melee wins out over triple brazen is because despite the ludicrous raw stat gain from the brazens, he's still slow and is at high risk of eating a special. Triple brazens shoring up your defenses likely won't hold up that well against a special activation.
His attack might be getting up there where he could threaten OHKO's against a lot of units with a bit of support, but armors and dragons will probably still survive most hits that aren't bolstered by a special of your own.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Well I imagine you take the triple brazen for the attack more than anything. Honestly if you're worried about specials, Guard may be a valid option. Something like Chill Attack could work too...
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Maybe it's time to build a Galeforce unit? Who should I use?
--Mark Twain
And friggin Aversa....
--Mark Twain
It almost feels to me like the Farfetched Heroes one they did last time, since I'm pretty sure these three characters were ranked pretty high on the CYL2 voting. But it also feels like the kind of thing we normally would have gotten a Feh Channel to announce because it's such an oddball thing...
Edit: In fact, I think I'm right:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IwBtWwWdHFjmmlxiXPACItAG-tHi6qfXM6FBHd316y4/edit#gid=0
Loki ranked #10, Owain ranked #26, Kliff ranked #33. Every other character ahead of them is already in the game with the exception of Selkie who is a beast and therefore complicated... (I can only assume they have some grand plan for beast heroes at this point - I'm sure they have seen how much they are wanted)
And if we ignore Keaton who is also a beast, Aversa is the next in line at #41. Ha
Yeah it's like an almost usable version of Fortress Def and/or Res... -2 Attack is a bit easier to swallow, especially when you're getting so many defensive stats out of it...
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Edit: I remember the first unit with Wrath, Nephenee, also came with Slaying Lance, so this synergy was there from the start.
...Yeah, there's nobody I care about here.
Here's an Ike that looks pretty good.
Ike is always great, but what about that Dorcas
Kliff looks the most fun, but in SOV he always kinda sucked for me, so I never grew to love him.
If Tibarn or Caineghis really show up soon, I'll be glad I have the orbs!
I saw this one too:
Honestly I think so. I think CYL2 was basically a big "Hey, add beast characters already!" megahorn for them, and they've had since January to figure out how they want to actually do that. I've been watching a let's play of Path of Radiance lately and it kinda makes me wonder if they might do something more similar to that game, if only to differentiate them from current dragons more (that is to say, they alternate between human and beast form, and in beast form are much stronger)
But isn't this banner an indication of that actually working?
I don't know that many people would disagree with this.
Veronica is just really fucking good. Peshkatz is an outrageously high value effect, and having it on a healer is invaluable for a lot of PvE content. Even well after those units came out, my assessment hasn't changed: Hector/Ephraim/Celica are all quite good and possibly even the best at what they do, but Veronica was the addition there that does something truly unique. Very happy with my decision to claim her with the free selection, and I'm going to try to get a merge or two on her every time she comes up in a banner.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
just give her one of those BST skills and she will be an arena champ
God dammit why did I pivot away from merging Hawkeye!?!? Arggg...
OK