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[Roguelikes] ASCII, Permadeath, Turn-based and Oh My...

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Posts

  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    So I recently discovered ToME. I played a ton of DCSS back in the day but never beat it.

    ToME is super easy and fun! I already beat the game on easy. I'm in the process of beating the game on normal right now (about 2/3 the way through).

    Anyone else playing ToME? This game is the light! It is easily the most approachable roguelike I've ever played. Does it count as a classic roguelike though? It seems about a quarter of the way from roguelike to rougelite.

    furbat on
    Rhan9Elvenshae
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    So I recently discovered ToME. I played a ton of DCSS back in the day but never beat it.

    ToME is super easy and fun! I already beat the game on easy. I'm in the process of beating the game on normal right now (about 2/3 the way through).

    Anyone else playing ToME? This game is the light! It is easily the most approachable roguelike I've ever played. Does it count as a classic roguelike though? It seems about a quarter of the way from roguelike to rougelite.

    I've lately been getting back to TOME, trying to unlock stuff through the roguelike mode and normal difficulty. I've had a lot of characters die to some sudden damage spikes, and some character classes feel a lot weaker than others, especially the summoner.

    Still sort of figuring out the systems. An elven archer was doing real well, but the quest location I had to go was basically designed to mitigate all advantages I had, and died miserably.

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    tome is weird. Basic monsters are usually a complete joke then you die instantly when you don't notice one is a unique

    ElvenshaeTofystedethDrake ChambersDonnicton
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited July 2018
    Thanks now I'm playing tome again.

    Trying cursed out for the first time and not having any way to close distance makes escorts rough.

    Also if you choose not to go the item cursing route, do you end up with a different mechanic to manage, or just don't have to deal with the curse one?

    Tofystedeth on
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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    I've been playing Caves of Qud with my chimera character. It's probably no wonder that the pure humans don't like him much, what with being a hideous mutant marauder with two heads, carapace, four arms all wielding battle axes, nightvision and a purely carnivorous diet.

    Doesn't really scream "trustworthy".

  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    The only two roguelikes I can tolerate are Enter the Gungeon and Really Big Sky. So good.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Dear roguelike thread, how do i not be bad at Caves of Qud? I spent most of yesterday playing it and managed to beat the kill the critter mission once, and died to a legendary kobold snapjaw shortly thereafter.

    My blinking tic defect teleported me to what was probably the final room of some random dungeon i stumbled into the first step i took. I opened the door and it was completely full, with 2 legendaries, one of which immediately set me on fire. I managed to take them out, very very eventually, by popping all my salve injectors as we mostly missed each other or bounced off armor for a billion turns.

    Then on the way back to the entrance i kept running into more legendaries and eventually succumbed to attrition.

    Average difficulty my ass.

    steam_sig.png
    Basil
  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    Well, random teleportation is absolutely going to get you killed, so there's that off the best practices list.

    I fondly recall my telekinetic light and fire dude. Eventually, I was ambushed by a psychic assassin in some dungeon and after I skulljacked him I opened up a cryopod and met a very angry thing that illustrated the wisdom of using skulljacked assassins to open cryo pods.

    I think that character died in acid-fire. Or a rocket? I've had a couple similar ones that died horribly.


    Most of my characters have been killed by pigs with shotguns for snouts. If radiation poisoning is a thing then that one that landed on the wrong conveyor belt sure as hell had it before he melted, too.


    Psykers have it pretty rough in Qud, nowadays. The devs added a malus to getting too powerful, so you end up embroiled in a cross-planar battle to be the One or some similar nonsense and matters tend to get a bit desperate.

    Basil on
    9KmX8eN.jpg
    Rhan9
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    It was less the teleportation than the fact that I was having a ton of trouble actually getting through the legendary snapjaws defenses even though they appraised as average. Basically like 3 minutes of bumping into them while we did 0-1 damage to each other until one of us died. I think the guy that got me had a crit or something, i forget.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    I've played a bunch of Caves of Qud in the past month. Mostly as True Kin Children of the Wheel with night vision implants.

    One technique I've been using to guarantee a solid early game (assuming I don't get randomly splatted doing the local starter quests) is wandering the desert. As in, go to the zoomed-in view and just go straight north across the whole thing (preferably along an edge so you can hop back and forth and explore two columns of screens.

    It's extremely safe, since almost nothing lives there except raiders (a good source of Desert Rifles if you don't have anything better) and dawngliders (who give a TON of experience and are very easy to kill as long as you know how to stop, drop, and roll--i.e. hit 5 to beat out the flames). And since you have unobstructed view in all directions it's really easy to spot map features like ruins, caravans, and friendly uniques (well, the Templar bands are probably less friendly if you're a mutant, but if you're True Kin they very often sell reasonably-priced stat point injectors).

    Dromad caravan guards (not the merchants themselves) almost always have fullerine weapons, so don't forget to buy those if you use melee. And if you find an 11-weight artifact on a gun merchant or Mechanimist in the Six-Day Stilt it's a carbine and you should probably buy it.

    My big problem right now is that half of the time I die in Golgatha and the other half of the time I die to confusion. Pretty much only those two things. Or brain explosion, once.

    Wyvern on
    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
    TofystedethKristmas KthulhuBasil
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Basil wrote: »
    Well, random teleportation is absolutely going to get you killed, so there's that off the best practices list.

    I fondly recall my telekinetic light and fire dude. Eventually, I was ambushed by a psychic assassin in some dungeon and after I skulljacked him I opened up a cryopod and met a very angry thing that illustrated the wisdom of using skulljacked assassins to open cryo pods.

    I think that character died in acid-fire. Or a rocket? I've had a couple similar ones that died horribly.


    Most of my characters have been killed by pigs with shotguns for snouts. If radiation poisoning is a thing then that one that landed on the wrong conveyor belt sure as hell had it before he melted, too.


    Psykers have it pretty rough in Qud, nowadays. The devs added a malus to getting too powerful, so you end up embroiled in a cross-planar battle to be the One or some similar nonsense and matters tend to get a bit desperate.

    Espers got fucked hard by the Glimmering. I usually start getting hunted long before I've actually found enough gear or leveled myself sufficiently to be able to resist. And even if you win, you eventually start getting swarmed by all the extra-dimensional wankers to a point where the gameplay turns into a slow death by attrition. It kinda turns the game to a slog.

    Hence why I've lately been experimenting with a freakish spider-man arconaut (4 arms, 4 legs) swinging four blades and dodging everything with a ridiculous agility. The freak's a real blender. Also very good at running away thanks to the extra legs.

    Basil
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Are the books in CoQ procedurally generated? I found one that was like 58 pages of semi coherent nonsense where the most understandable part was the one sentence in each paragraph that was copied directly from the new player help files.

    steam_sig.png
    Basil
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Yeah, books are randomly generated unless the title is...yellow, I think?

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    It's been about 4 weeks since I started playing Tome4. I have put a ton of time into the game. I've now beaten the game... 5 times and am about 3/4ths the way through a 6th run. I started out on easy with a temporal warden, then did normal with a oozemancer, then did nightmare with a writhing one, insane with a writhing one, and then beat insane (roguelike) with a writhing one.

    I'm currently playing a cultist of entropy on insane roguelike.

    The polish is more like a professional indie game like into the breech than a roguelike.

    One of the best parts of the game is the difficulty settings. There are 4 difficulty settings, easy/normal/nightmare/insane. There is also madness but it isn't really beatable. Then you can set how many lives you have. You can do exploration (limitless), adventure (limited), roguelike (1). I started out on easy (adventure) you start out with 3 lives and gain additional ones as you progress through the game. I played around a bit and unlocked some of the classes before finding a combination that worked for me. Then I went to normal, then nightmare, then insane, then I switched from adventure to roguelike, now I'm on my second insane roguelike run.

    The game is really balanced around nightmare/insane. Nightmare is still 1980s NES difficult, it is just easier than what I expect from a roguelike where you can play for years and win only once or twice.

    Insane is more typical for a roguelike. However, in this game since you can play with training wheels you learn the ins and outs of the combat system pretty fast. The game also doesn't throw too many curveballs at you towards the end. You aren't going to grab the MacGuffin and get slaughtered on the way out. You may get really really unlucky with the randomly generated endbosses, but you most likely won't and can still win if you do.

    The early game in insane is pretty brutal though. The game has different tiers of monsters. There are regular, elite, rare, unique, and bosses. Random bosses are generated with high tiers of player skills. As soon as you get past the first couple zones, not only are the enemies 50% + 3 higher level than normal but random rare+ with more skills added to them are sprinkled through out the game. You end up fighting hundreds and hundreds of randbosses. You level up a lot faster and you get tons of better gear, but that initial difficulty bump is massive. I kept getting one shot on my cultist runs.

    I've probably played this game too much the last few weeks.

    Anyway, if you haven't played this game you really should.

    furbat on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    I've still never beaten tome. I got to second continent a couple times last week and cleared out most of the orc bastions with my Ogre Paladin.

    I got done in by a pyromancer that was just repeatedly filling like a 10 tile area with fire and i couldn't even find him.

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  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited August 2018
    As a sun paladin you should have the resist chant, also movement inscriptions and picking up track from a rogue escort will help (or arcane eye).

    Once you really start to understand the game, anything less than insane is a cakewalk. The problem is learning the game, which is why lower difficulties and adventure settings help!

    The pyromancers, cryomancers, and necromancers out east can hit pretty hard if your resists are low for sure. But you get pretty good at identifying which enemies will be a threat to you. If you use mana, mage hunter orcs will be a pretty high priority for example.

    furbat on
  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    It was less the teleportation than the fact that I was having a ton of trouble actually getting through the legendary snapjaws defenses even though they appraised as average. Basically like 3 minutes of bumping into them while we did 0-1 damage to each other until one of us died. I think the guy that got me had a crit or something, i forget.

    early-game melee in qud needs a weapon feature to be able to consistently handle legendaries without turning matters into a rolloff, which the legendary will usually win with a mutation crit out of nowhere. you can use short blades to bleed, axe dismember to bleed and dismember limbs, or cudgels to debuff and smash them through walls. if you have no melee skills because you're running a tinker or esper, avoid legendaries like the plague until you've found a good ranged weapon to spam at them.

    if I was starting qud right now and wanted an easy-start build, I'd go...

    - mutant: freezing hands, regeneration, night vision. stat-wise focus agi and toughness. go nomad for the recycling suit and +2 toughness, then take your salt pans lore and start in a salt dunes village. play really conservative, level freezing hands as often as possible and slowly chip away at most anything you can encounter in the first 3/4's of the game. you eventually want a good ranged weapon with lots of ammo to use inbetween freezing hands' cooldown.

    - true kin: child of the hearth, 22-24 str, 20 toughness, 18 agi, whatever you feel for the other stats. your starter cybernetics are carbide hand bones, which give you a mid-game cudgel from level 1. your fists will usually crit for 10-20 damage and cudgels have the highest armor pen in the game, so the damage is really consistent. this is a slugfest build, but it only has to be careful up until level 7-8 where you'll have the health to win most of the time.

    BasilMegaMekMahnmut
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    As a sun paladin you should have the resist chant, also movement inscriptions and picking up track from a rogue escort will help (or arcane eye).

    Once you really start to understand the game, anything less than insane is a cakewalk. The problem is learning the game, which is why lower difficulties and adventure settings help!

    The pyromancers, cryomancers, and necromancers out east can hit pretty hard if your resists are low for sure. But you get pretty good at identifying which enemies will be a threat to you. If you use mana, mage hunter orcs will be a pretty high priority for example.

    I had resist chant up. And damage reduction inscriptions. And healing shit. He was just able to punk me from another room.

    steam_sig.png
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Has this crack in a puddle in Joppa leading directly to a place full of enemies to fight and a faster path to the critter quest location always been there and I just missed it?

    Also why are there plenty of 2h swords in the early game but no 2h axes?

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  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    Has this crack in a puddle in Joppa leading directly to a place full of enemies to fight and a faster path to the critter quest location always been there and I just missed it?

    Also why are there plenty of 2h swords in the early game but no 2h axes?

    waterlogged tunnel entrance is always in the same spot, but the underground can be very mean to a level 1-2 character so it's hard to totally rush the watervine quest unless you have a true kin that started with a lot of gear and injectors. speaking of joppa, make sure you're examining the sultan statue in the NE corner of the map; it gives you directions and a quest for a historic site that's guaranteed to have some sort of artifact at the bottom.

    for all the expertise I've been pretending to have, I've lost a lot of characters lately. my only promising one (level 15+) died in one of the more frustrating fates I've come across, where a legendary esper kept spamming confusion and the plant AoE until it finally caught me and life drained me to death while I couldn't see it or heal.

    Basil
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    I've been running a marauder with multiple arms, double muscled, and regeneration, so as long as i don't go too far out of the way in the tunnels it's not much worse than anywhere else. Other than the fact that it seems on the side areas snapjaws don't drop any loot, so if the main areas didn't happen to give me any nice weapons or armor it gets rough.

    That said, my current run is going well. I'm level 9, have a couple steel axes, a miners helmet, a sphere a negative weight, and a decent amount of water/trade goods/books stored in a workbench in joppa.

    But I'm also love sick and don't seem to have a bedroll on me to sleep it off.

    Also is there a way to get it to not automatically drink my money? It seems like the moment i get not quenched it automatically consumes a dram instead of giving me a chance to eat one of myb plentiful wafers.

    steam_sig.png
    Basil
  • CalescentCalescent Registered User regular
    Also is there a way to get it to not automatically drink my money? It seems like the moment i get not quenched it automatically consumes a dram instead of giving me a chance to eat one of myb plentiful wafers.

    Under Options --> Automation, you can deselect "Automatically drink fresh water when thirsty".

    Battle.net: Cali#1543 on NA
    Steam: Calidaria
    BasilTofystedeth
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    One last question for now, is there a really good alternative tiles mod because the base is mostly okay, but sometimes it is extremely difficult to actually find my character.

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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Man, fuck qudzu. They rusted my carbide battle axe :(

    steam_sig.png
    BasilMegaMekTorgaironWyvernRhan9
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    Beat insane with cultist.

    Working my way through prides on a krog wyrmic. I'm abusing fungal blood and ancestral life to break the turn economy. It's like entering bullet time and everything just sits and a standstill.

    Unfortunately, when time stops nothing comes off cooldown. So when you burn through your abilities you are left auto-attacking for a bit.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Dunno if anyone else has been playing CDDA experimentals lately, but some of them have done something to the zombies. They hit really damn accurately, run surprisingly fast, track aggressively and seem to spawn in greater numbers.

    It's super challenging getting started now.

  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited September 2018
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dunno if anyone else has been playing CDDA experimentals lately, but some of them have done something to the zombies. They hit really damn accurately, run surprisingly fast, track aggressively and seem to spawn in greater numbers.

    It's super challenging getting started now.

    I played CDDA for a while but, from what I can tell, control of the project changed to someone else and the new philosophy is "the only things allowed in the game are things that are incredibly tedious and boring and require real-life justifications". So it has vitamin deficiency and you have to clean your clothes and making fun vehicles is no longer allowed and other such bullshit. Things that make no real-world sense but are still tedious and unfun get grandfathered in, obviously, like getting the flu. I assume they finally got around to realizing that killing zombies is fun and put the kibosh on that.

    Garthor on
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Garthor wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dunno if anyone else has been playing CDDA experimentals lately, but some of them have done something to the zombies. They hit really damn accurately, run surprisingly fast, track aggressively and seem to spawn in greater numbers.

    It's super challenging getting started now.

    I played CDDA for a while but, from what I can tell, control of the project changed to someone else and the new philosophy is "the only things allowed in the game are things that are incredibly tedious and boring and require real-life justifications". So it has vitamin deficiency and you have to clean your clothes and making fun vehicles is no longer allowed and other such bullshit. Things that make no real-world sense but are still tedious and unfun get grandfathered in, obviously, like getting the flu. I assume they finally got around to realizing that killing zombies is fun and put the kibosh on that.

    Well, the vitamin shit I've got disabled because it would take weeks/months to get any significant deficiencies IRL, as well as the clothes washing silliness. I just noticed that zombies are a lot better at catching me, despite me being a fleet footed, quick parkour dude. Seems like a character without those traits could not outrun the zombies, but I haven't tested it yet.

    But yeah, I've lately found that your character gets hungry way, way too quickly, and requires an unrealistic amount of food to get sated. Like, half a dozen bowls of oatmeal, or grilling and eating an entire deer, which is ridiculous. At times I'm spending too much time just staving off starvation, which would make sense in longer term, but I reach some third world famine levels of nutrition in a day or two. or maybe I've survived much longer, and the food cycle just gets tedious.

    Basil
  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    This thread is Mornington Crescent af right now.

    fedaykin666Alistair Hutton
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    I had a failed cursed run in tome. I got greedy and decided to try a farportal right before highpeak. I was trying to get a randart ring to then reroll at the font of sacrifice. My gear was pretty insane and I wanted to absolutely destroy the sorcs.

    Got one shot by an archer rare...

    Now I'm playing a mindslayer. A mindslayer is basically cheating. Finishing up prides now.

  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    "Lunch: A deer, an entire deer!"

    This song doesn't go the way I recall...

    9KmX8eN.jpg
    ElvenshaeRhan9
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Sooo... a bit of an update on the latest CDDA hijinx:

    -Basically I wanted to try a challenge run, and I'd never tried the lab escape. Started as a volunteer mutant with some green elf eyes (no real benefit), and no clue how to get out of the lab.
    -Pretty quickly I find out I'm locked in, with the only way out behind a computer console. I have no computer skills.
    -Find a library, and a drinks vending machine. Also some books, including computer books. Score!
    -Reading is super slow, especially for raising computer skill to a level where I can hack my way out.
    -Get super hungry, go looking for food. Nothing to eat.
    -What's this? Cloning lab? With mutated limbs and fetuses and whatnot in jars?
    -Sustain myself with mutant cannibalism, and washing down my sorrows with mountain dew from the vending machine while studying C++ or whatever while crying myself through crushing depression.
    -Attain sufficient computer skill, also mutate about half a dozen times. Apparently eating fetuses makes you smart, gives you elfy night vision, and makes you poison and disease resistant. Whodathunkit?
    -Hack my way to freedom!

    -Open the door, and on the other side there's a goddamn turret. Welp.
    -I managed to only get shot once while dashing to the stairs, I got out and bandaged myself. Now what to do? I'm turning into an elf with clawed hands. Probably gonna find a dojo and become a kung fu claw elf person thing.

    YiliasFremBasilMahnmutjdarksun
  • CalescentCalescent Registered User regular
    If anyone is interested in a roguelike in the spirit of Halloween, Golden Krone Hotel is currently on sale on Steam for $3.99 through November 1. It's a shorter, more streamlined game in which you alternate between being human and a vampire (and can later unlock being a werewolf). There are ten main floors in the hotel, with branching side areas, similar to Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup, which served as one of the inspirations for the developer. There is a day/night cycle causing vampires to avoid sunlight and being able to hide in shadows. Humans are weaker but can cast spells, while vampires are stronger and need blood to survive. Equipment is automatically wielded if it's better than what you already have; otherwise, it's immediately sold, resulting in no need for an actual inventory. Potions are semi-random in that you are presented with three possibilities each one can be.

    The game has both tiles and ASCII, with easy, normal, and despair difficulties. You start off with access to one "disguise" and can unlock twelve more. Overall, I'm enjoying it quite a bit; it flew under my radar for quite a while, so I'm assuming others may have overlooked it as well.

    Battle.net: Cali#1543 on NA
    Steam: Calidaria
    BasilKristmas KthulhuRhan9
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