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[Magic The Gathering: Arena] Your favorite CCG in a F2P format you can spend thousands on!

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Posts

  • GriswoldGriswold that's rough, buddyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Rend wrote: »
    Griswold wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Griswold wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Yeah but cosmotronic wave is red. If I'm not SPECIFICALLY running UR then that's not a good answer.

    Also, there are uncommon and rare token producers. What if an opponent opened up march of the multitudes, or what if they're packing the dryad that makes a saproling every turn? Besides the fact that archetypes like RW and GW automatically gravitate toward tribal, specifically humans, soldiers, and vampires.

    I dunno I'm not that good I just feel like when I took it it did work every time it was in my hand.

    What if your Selesnya opponent, instead of having March of the Multitudes, has Rosemane Centaur? (About 100x more likely in any given limited match.) Or Centaur Peacemaker? Ironshell Beetle? Selective Snare is a horrible answer to all of these cards, and you'd rather have literally any spell that affects the board for more than a turn -- even a below-rate creature.

    I mean yes, but blink of an eye, which is the better bounce, is also not good in those situations. No bounce is good in those situations, so saying this SPECIFIC bounce is bad in those situations is, yes, true, but also trivial.

    Unless you're arguing that bounce in the first place is bad, but as far as I know we're not arguing whether or not bounce is bad, we're arguing about this specific bounce.

    Blink of an Eye replaces itself, and can be cast at instant speed (and also isn't in this Limited format). There's no comparison between the card quality of the two spells.

    Fair that it's not in GRN, but you didn't address the point I was making that you're saying "selective snare" is bad in a situation where ANY bounce AT ALL would be bad.

    of course I'm not going to bounce your ironshell beetle! I'm not going to do it with selective snare, or blink of an eye, or any bounce spell in any format for basically any reason. I might bounce the creature you gave the counter to, but not the beetle. That would be GIVING you value.

    The point I'm trying to make is that the fact that Blink of an Eye replaces itself means you're not down a card when you cast it, and the fact that (because it can be cast at instant speed) it has many more situations where it's useful than Selective Snare. Its floor is WAY, WAY higher.

    A good way to lose a draft game is to put a card in your deck whose average use case will not net you a card's worth of value. I'm arguing that Selective Snare falls into that category, and arguing that Blink of an Eye does not.

    Griswold on
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    milski
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    cncaudata wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    I am on a 4 day streak of at least one 7 win run in constructed events. Feels good man. Just make sure you can deal with mono-red, white, and blue and you are good there.

    Ugh, what queue are you in that doesn't have 3xJeskai Control every time.

    Also, what's your list.

    I've been bouncing between running vraska (4) and 2x golden demise. Also, I'm thinking about dropping the memorial to folly. This is basically 'Wildgrowth Walker is a good card' the deck. My strategy is to beat white weeny/boros aggro 80% of the time and mon-red 65% of the time. Drakes and mono-U are rough. I almost never see jeskai control in constructed events. I guess all those players are in Bo3? This deck has an abysmal win rate vs jeskai. You do pretty well vs dimir though because they need to ritual of soot on turn 4 and you can do a good job of ensuring reaper is on the board at all times. I also usually win the mirror because golgari are all running tournament lists with carnage tyrants and doom whispers and spot removal, and frankly that just isn't a list that can handle a go wide and run 3 midnight reapers strategy.

    The reason the deck works is because wildgrowth walkers and midnight reapers have to be spot removed or you win the game. If they do get removed, you can use find or find broker to bring them back to hand. You can beat drakes but it involves them not having lava bolt in response to walkers.

    4 Llanowar Elves (M19) 314
    8 Forest (RIX) 196
    4 Jadelight Ranger (RIX) 136
    4 Wildgrowth Walker (XLN) 216
    4 Seekers' Squire (XLN) 121
    5 Swamp (RIX) 194
    3 Find // Finality (GRN) 225
    2 Golgari Findbroker (GRN) 175
    2 Vraska, Relic Seeker (XLN) 232
    3 Ravenous Chupacabra (RIX) 82
    3 Midnight Reaper (GRN) 77
    2 Vivien Reid (M19) 208
    2 Memorial to Folly (DAR) 242
    4 Overgrown Tomb (GRN) 253
    4 Woodland Cemetery (DAR) 248
    2 Vraska's Contempt (XLN) 129
    2 Merfolk Branchwalker (XLN) 197
    2 Vraska, Golgari Queen (GRN) 213

    furbat on
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    blink of an eye only replaces itself at 4 mana, which, fine, ok, but that's not a fair comparison when the point is selective snare for 1 is comparably costed to the 2 mana bounce 1 that exist
    lit. you are paying for the flexibility of potentially bouncing multiple targets for cheap in the same way that blink of eye is costed so that you are paying for the flexibility of playing it at 4 mana and having it cycle (vs. unexplained disappearance, where you are paying for surveil, etc. disperse is the base line and is the one that is clearly overcosted)
    a better point is like, sorc speed bounce is a problem but that only really comes into play when you are running counterspells, which you aren't necessarily doing in draft

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
    Armoroc
  • GriswoldGriswold that's rough, buddyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2018
    P10 wrote: »
    blink of an eye only replaces itself at 4 mana, which, fine, ok, but that's not a fair comparison when the point is selective snare for 1 is comparably costed to the 2 mana bounce 1 that exist
    lit. you are paying for the flexibility of potentially bouncing multiple targets for cheap in the same way that blink of eye is costed so that you are paying for the flexibility of playing it at 4 mana and having it cycle (vs. unexplained disappearance, where you are paying for surveil, etc. disperse is the base line and is the one that is clearly overcosted)
    a better point is like, sorc speed bounce is a problem but that only really comes into play when you are running counterspells, which you aren't necessarily doing in draft

    What if you want to use it to save your creature from removal?

    Griswold on
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  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Vraska, Golgari Queen and Vraska, Relic Seeker, please. This Vraska (4) and Vraska (6) thing just makes me think of Noxious.

    ew9y0DD.png
    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Griswold wrote: »
    P10 wrote: »
    blink of an eye only replaces itself at 4 mana, which, fine, ok, but that's not a fair comparison when the point is selective snare for 1 is comparably costed to the 2 mana bounce 1 that exist
    lit. you are paying for the flexibility of potentially bouncing multiple targets for cheap in the same way that blink of eye is costed so that you are paying for the flexibility of playing it at 4 mana and having it cycle (vs. unexplained disappearance, where you are paying for surveil, etc. disperse is the base line and is the one that is clearly overcosted)
    a better point is like, sorc speed bounce is a problem but that only really comes into play when you are running counterspells, which you aren't necessarily doing in draft

    What if you want to use it to save your creature from removal?
    run rescue
    yes, you're right, that is another aspect of sorc speed bounce that is problematic. it's also a problem when running instant speed card draw, etc. things that result in you wanting to keep mana open for flexibility in what line of play you end up taking. i guess a better question is "how useful is conditional mass 'removal'" in draft, which I would say given the conditions on selective snare its not horrible but not exciting. its competition for mass bounce in standard are river's rebuke, which is also sorc speed and horribly costed, and against basically all of the aggressive decks that get played have tribals that will let you get multiple targets for selective snare if you want it

    now you could easily say, well, is mass bounce actually something anyone wants? to which the answer is, idk probably not in most decks? mono-U tempo stuff isn't going to want it, merfolk aggro isn't going to want it over something like sleep/that tap all merfolk since they are just looking to break through on the board, control decks are probably not mono-U and have access to mass hard removal, etc. but i like selective snare a lot in my trashy mono-U mill deck because it wants to stall for time and mass bounce is one of the few ways blue can actually do that

    P10 on
    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • GriswoldGriswold that's rough, buddyRegistered User regular
    P10 wrote: »
    Griswold wrote: »
    P10 wrote: »
    blink of an eye only replaces itself at 4 mana, which, fine, ok, but that's not a fair comparison when the point is selective snare for 1 is comparably costed to the 2 mana bounce 1 that exist
    lit. you are paying for the flexibility of potentially bouncing multiple targets for cheap in the same way that blink of eye is costed so that you are paying for the flexibility of playing it at 4 mana and having it cycle (vs. unexplained disappearance, where you are paying for surveil, etc. disperse is the base line and is the one that is clearly overcosted)
    a better point is like, sorc speed bounce is a problem but that only really comes into play when you are running counterspells, which you aren't necessarily doing in draft

    What if you want to use it to save your creature from removal?
    run rescue
    yes, you're right, that is another aspect of sorc speed bounce that is problematic. it's also a problem when running instant speed card draw, etc. things that result in you wanting to keep mana open for flexibility in what line of play you end up taking. i guess a better question is "how useful is conditional mass 'removal'" in draft, which I would say given the conditions on selective snare its not horrible but not exciting. its competition for mass bounce in standard are river's rebuke, which is also sorc speed and horribly costed, and against basically all of the aggressive decks that get played have tribals that will let you get multiple targets for selective snare if you want it

    Rescue is a bad card, too.

    A card like Disperse is playable in most Limited formats because it's sort of like a Rescue//Selective Snare split card, which (again) greatly raises its floor. There will still be situations where it's a dead draw, but way less often than either Rescue or Selective Snare are dead draws.

    I need to stop arguing this point -- if I haven't been convincing by now, I'm not sure how to make the case any better -- but I strongly believe that Selective Snare is such a narrow card that you should be cutting it from your draft decks in favor of something that's relevant more often.

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    Damn. I just lost to a selective snare to my dinosaur deck. I had lethal on the table and was going to kill next turn, then suddenly the only person on my table was my Otepec Huntmaster and I'm getting lethal'd right back. I didn't even know that card existed!

    Steam ID: Right here.
    Armoroc
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Kay wrote: »
    Vraska, Golgari Queen and Vraska, Relic Seeker, please. This Vraska (4) and Vraska (6) thing just makes me think of Noxious.

    The mana costs help me keep them straight.

    I took vraska 4 out for the longest time and just put her back in. I was surprised too. Vraska 4 can be replaced with pretty much any removal. I'm running her because she doubles as removal and win/con on turn 4. She is only bad in one match up that I see in constructed events, and that's drakes. But that match isn't going to be solved with that slot.

    In a constructed event Bo1 meta where you almost never see counter spells and everyone is playing weenie decks, carnage tyrant is just not a good card.

    furbat on
  • PookiepooPookiepoo Registered User regular
    Kay wrote: »
    Vraska, Golgari Queen and Vraska, Relic Seeker, please. This Vraska (4) and Vraska (6) thing just makes me think of Noxious.

    At least 4 and 6 convey some relevant information about two extremely similar cards. Seems like strange pet peeve. What is wrong with Noxious?

    Steam: Pookie GG Now Playing: WoW, HITMAN 2, Magic Arena, Drums
    furbatscherbchen
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    Damn. I just lost to a selective snare to my dinosaur deck. I had lethal on the table and was going to kill next turn, then suddenly the only person on my table was my Otepec Huntmaster and I'm getting lethal'd right back. I didn't even know that card existed!

    Selective snare is the best card in the format confirmed

    GriswoldArmoroc21stCentury
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    P10 wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    P10 wrote: »
    also rotate ixalan's binding out so it stops ruining my mill plans

    That's what Cleansing Nova is for

    Also show me your mill deck because mill is the best
    i have two. weird decisions might be because i don't have the cards i would use.
    'Fast Mill', seeking to aggressively mill using Drowned Secrets + Psychic Corrosion. Homarid Explorer is better than I thought because it's equivalent in power to a 4 mana blue draw 2 creature with a 3/3 body, assuming only 1 psychic corrosion out anyway, which is quite good. and the 3/3 body is useful for not dying, generally, although this deck still dies to aggressive starts because it has no efficient removal and it has too much non-creature stuff + the creatures are rather small
    4 Curious Obsession (RIX) 35
    18 Island (RIX) 193
    4 Mist-Cloaked Herald (M19) 310
    4 Opt (DAR) 60
    3 Chart a Course (XLN) 48
    4 Drowned Secrets (GRN) 39
    2 River Sneak (XLN) 70
    3 Silvergill Adept (RIX) 53
    4 Psychic Corrosion (M19) 68
    2 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
    4 Homarid Explorer (DAR) 53
    1 Divination (DAR) 52
    1 Divination (M19) 51
    1 Syncopate (DAR) 67
    2 Memorial to Genius (DAR) 243
    1 Reliquary Tower (M19) 254
    2 Riverwise Augur (RIX) 48
    'Gate Mill', seeking to go off with a Psychic Corrosion(s) + Guild Summit + Scapeshift + maybe Tatyova to mill a bunch of cards all at once (can mill 60+ in a single turn, although in practice you probably need to mill about 30-40 at the point you can actually combo). Runs literally every board clear I have + root snare in the hopes that I survive long enough to combo. 4x Reliquary Tower instead of the 2x Islands/Forests might actually make sense since if you get 2x Guild Summit in play you will overdraw. I used to have some land ramp that wasn't Circuitous Route trying to make up for the fact that playing 20 gates means I am always a mana behind, but I never found any of it good enough to justify - Llanowar Scout probably comes the closest, because it has utility for later turns with being able to play 2x Gates in a turn and a nice defensive 1/3 body, but the fact that it can't ramp the turn it comes out means in practice it kind of stinks. I would swap Conclave Tribunal for Ixalan's Binding if I had them because no creatures so convoke is pointless.

    Also requires you to do math when doing the combo to make sure you don't Scapeshift for too many gates and deck yourself, which is the sign of a great deck

    4 Psychic Corrosion (M19) 68
    2 Island (RIX) 193
    4 Guild Summit (GRN) 41
    2 Forest (RIX) 196
    1 Circuitous Route (GRN) 125
    4 Selesnya Guildgate (GRN) 256
    4 Root Snare (M19) 199
    4 Izzet Guildgate (GRN) 251
    4 Golgari Guildgate (GRN) 248
    4 Boros Guildgate (GRN) 243
    4 Dimir Guildgate (GRN) 245
    1 Settle the Wreckage (XLN) 34
    3 Tatyova, Benthic Druid (DAR) 206
    2 Scapeshift (M19) 201
    2 Ritual of Soot (GRN) 84
    1 Cleansing Nova (M19) 9
    4 Opt (DAR) 60
    2 Conclave Tribunal (GRN) 6
    2 Deafening Clarion (GRN) 165
    1 Time of Ice (DAR) 70
    4 Revitalize (M19) 35
    1 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32

    as you can see my hipster mill decks are true awful jank mill decks instead of a control shell made worse by swapping your win condition for psychic corrosions (i also have one like that but its lame and not worth talking about)

    I've been playing with that MTG Goldfish budget mill deck (except the not budget version with teferi and such) and it seems to work pretty well. Counterspells in the sideboard to swap in against control. It loses to mono red most of the time of course so I gotta find some stuff to work better against that. This Tatyova thing is interesting, have you considered putting in the fog cards to take advantage of the green and keep yourself alive? Oh wait that's what root snare is. Fog mill is fun. Maybe some Thief of Sanity for the sideboard.

    Typically controlly decks don't want creatures so much since it makes a lot of your opponent's removal spells dead cards. But you can side them in because people assume you don't have any and take out their removal for game 2.

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  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    Speaking of the Vraskas. I would totally run Vraska Regal Gorgon at 5 mana. But at 7? Good lord. At 7 mana she should be about as strong as Nicol Bolas.

  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    i only play in bo1 atm.

    you could probably do it without tatyova and make the deck better - honestly, guild summit does most of the work, tatyova is too slow and the life gain / land is rarely relevant. the main concerns are that with just 1x guild summit & 1x psychic corrosion, scapeshift/circuitous route thins your deck at the same rate as your opponents', but you can solve that with 2x of the aforementioned. it is sometimes relevant because you draw a ton, so if you don't get psychic corrosion down early you might be at a deck size of ~30-35 to your opponents ~40-45, so you can't go off. the other thing is that without tatyova you are really reliant on a single 4x card in your deck that you ideally want 2x of in play, which feels bad, but with a stronger control basis is probably not an issue.

    the other thing is like, you could really cut it down to U/W/G, and without Tatyova you could even cut G - but then you run into the issue of no Azor/Simic guild gates atm and since you want your land pool to be almost entirely gates for Guild Summit + Scapeshift (so that when you scapeshift, you actually have the 5-10 gates in your deck that you might need to finish off your opponent's deck) you wind up with having access to other colors anyway. . .

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    and if you go down to U/W/G you can run TEFERI
    *puts fist in mouth*

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    Speaking of the Vraskas. I would totally run Vraska Regal Gorgon at 5 mana. But at 7? Good lord. At 7 mana she should be about as strong as Nicol Bolas.

    Planeswalker deck planeswalkers are bad intentionally

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
    Armoroc
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    At 5 mana she'd basically be a slightly worse:

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=401971&type=card

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    I made a few changes to @Echo 's Thief of Sanity deck and I really like how it plays. I switched a few of the lesser 'useful' cards to the combo out for some soot rituals, as weeny decks are super duper common in arena right now.

    Yeah, ToS is silly fun. I should switch in a few Rituals now that I have a couple.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • BoomerAang SquadBoomerAang Squad Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Ten minutes into crafting the Mono Blue deck, and I've already done some bullshit lived the dream.

    Four Curious Obsessions on one Mist-Cloaked Herald.

    Off of a one lander keep.

    Against Mono Red.

    Well.
    I played a Mountain and Shocked a Siren which was having a Curious Obsession attached to it T2.

    That player conceded immediately.

    I'm not sure why Monored did not mulligan until they have a Shock in hand.

    To be fair, they did T1 Firebranded away my Stormtamer, leaving me with two Dive Downs, two Obsessions, and an Opt in hand.

    Full play-by-play as best as I can recall.
    On my T2, I draw the Herald. Cast Opt to get a second Island, and pass holding Herald in hand.

    Op plays Lavarunner and passes with one Mountain untapped.

    I play out the Herald and pass with and Island up, hoping they don't have a one mana burn.

    Op takes their turn and Chainwhirls. I Dive Down in response. They Pass.

    Still no third land, I jam two Obsessions, swing for three, and draw two cards. Get a land and another Obsession.

    Op's turn, they play land and Lightning Strike the Herald. I Dive Down and again hope for no followup. They Shock my face and attack for 5, putting me to 12.

    My turn, and I've got the fourth Obsession. The Herald goes to 5/5, draws me four cards, including lands and a Merfolk Trickster.

    Op plays out a Rekindling Phoenix. I Trickster to tap Chainwhirler and trade it with the Lavarunner.

    I attack with Herald again, play a fifth land and Warkite Marauder to threaten lethal next turn.

    Op casts Frenzy, which I Wizard's Retort. They attack with Chainwhirler and Phoenix. I take it, down to 5 life. Op plays their last card, a Mountain, and concedes.

  • Kevin CristKevin Crist But it's like we weren't made for this world Though I wouldn't really want to meet someone who was.Registered User regular
    Chris Clay, Game Director for MTGA talks about the issue™ of the "5th card problem".

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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Chris Clay, Game Director for MTGA talks about the issue™ of the "5th card problem".

    If this is what they go for, then I am very pleasantly surprised.
    To affirm what we talked about back in September, a smarter system that provides what we have dubbed "duplicate protection" is still our top contender, and the current design space we're working with. How do we make sure you are excited about opening packs, receive lots of different cards, and can redeem Wildcards with impunity? ... Make it so when you open packs or earn cards, you only receive cards that you have fewer than four copies of! A simple statement that has significant complexity to it, and it is that complexity that we're currently working through. This has moved from Thinking to Working for What's Next for MTG Arena.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    3clipse
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Also I think that was how their previous Magic Colon Duels More Colons worked.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    21stCentury
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    I, uh

    Wow yeah I'd spend some cash

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited November 2018
    I wonder how they'll handle already having all commons from a set, though.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    I wonder how they'll handle already having all commons from a set, though.

    Maybe trade up? 6 commons for an uncommon, 4 uncommons for a rare, 3 rares for a mythic? Like the vault but it can be redeemed separately and only for the set it was generated with

    Echo
  • KorrorKorror Registered User regular
    Also what happens when you take the 5th copy of a card in draft? I assume nothing as this change only affects opening packs which sort of screws players over who are using limited as their main source of card gain.

    Battlenet ID: NullPointer
  • BSoBBSoB Registered User regular
    You are allowed to play with more than 4 copies of a card in draft.


  • KorrorKorror Registered User regular
    BSoB wrote: »
    You are allowed to play with more than 4 copies of a card in draft.

    I mean when you take a card in draft where you already have 4 copies in your collection. Right now, you get vault progression for those cards which is better than nothing but it sounds like the vault is on its way out.

    Battlenet ID: NullPointer
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    I think once you have 4 copies of every common or what ever THEN have the cards start building up to vault opens. That makes sense to me.

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Wee, Muldrotha is just fun when that deck gets going. Phyrexian Scriptures and Eldest Reborn as constantly recycled board wipe/removal, Journey to Eternity to bring Muldrotha back if needed.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    At 5 mana she'd basically be a slightly worse:

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=401971&type=card

    I didn't realize she was in the planeswalkers deck, that makes sense. Ob there looks like a worse version of vivien.

  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Ob's just different. He was very powerful in creature-light control decks when he was in standard, where Vivian wouldn't really fit. He'd come down and nuke their biggest threat, then generate card advantage and remove another creature later on. Neat 'walker.

    ew9y0DD.png
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    milskiMunkus Beaver
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    At 5 mana she'd basically be a slightly worse:

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=401971&type=card

    I didn't realize she was in the planeswalkers deck, that makes sense. Ob there looks like a worse version of vivien.

    Destroy any creature and draw any card are much more flexible than Vivien's abilities. Ob is good for locking down a game and generating card advantage, Viv is good to punch creatures through certain control decks

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    milski wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    At 5 mana she'd basically be a slightly worse:

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=401971&type=card

    I didn't realize she was in the planeswalkers deck, that makes sense. Ob there looks like a worse version of vivien.

    Destroy any creature and draw any card are much more flexible than Vivien's abilities. Ob is good for locking down a game and generating card advantage, Viv is good to punch creatures through certain control decks

    To be fair, vivien also can destroy artifacts and enchantments too. I'd love a good mono-black planeswalker though. I saw someone trying to make mono black control work on ladder. Ob there would make the deck work.

    furbat on
  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Liliana, the Last Hope was the best mono black Planeswalker lately. She was better in creature decks, or control decks that ran creature finishers, but her ultimate was a relentless game closer.

    Image.ashx?multiverseid=456590&type=card

    ew9y0DD.png
    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    Three mana walker with a +1 that's not just protection, but removal? That was brutal.

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
    Armoroc
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