In the tweet he also mentions that this is aimed at the "typical ladder experience".
I haven't watched the video but I'm not really surprised that less people might be playing comp? I don't think any of the issues with competitive are issues with the game itself. People are just horrible to each other in general and the game is 2 years old. I played competitive CSGO for a short time and that was far more toxic than Overwatch has ever been. If any given player has the opportunity to shift blame for their poor performance, they almost invariably will.
Seagull has always struck me as a nice dude who is good at video games but errr a lot of his opinions about game balance and design tend to be pretty poorly thought out
Like yeah, if you win the first fight in koth you're more likely to win the map. That... isn't a design flaw? A 60%-ish win rate after first fight is actually still a lot of variance! Like the game would be pretty fucked up if winning the first team fight didn't give you any benefit.
He's got a similar perpetual attitude about ult management, where like boo hoo teams with more ults usually win. But having more ults didn't just magically happen, and I don't know why he has always insisted on thinking every team fight should exist in a vacuum. Yes, the decisions your team makes throughout the map end up having an effect on the conclusion of the game. So did the enemy team. It's like complaining that hey, my soccer team was down 1-3, but we scored a goal in the last minute, so it's bullshit we don't get to win when we were the last people to score a point.
I dunno, I just take streamers opinions on the "typical" overwatch experience with a grain of salt. They play anywhere from like 4-8 hours a day, for years. Any game is going to start bugging you after that long, but that doesn't mean it's a fault of the game, it's just natural burnout.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Listening to the Seagull thing it just sounds like he doesn't like Overwatch much anymore, which is fine, given how many hours he has gotten out of it. But CC being not super fun, and there being hard counters, and Ultimates tipping fights has been OW since day one and why I bounced off of it until recently when I cam back and decide to approach the game on ITS terms instead of my own. It sounds like he just liked the older meta more and doesn't want to adapt and accept the game on its new terms, and that's fine, but when that happens with a game it generally just means it is time for you to move on.
And yeah, as Kana says, playing any game that long can easily lead to burnout. I'm always frankly amazed when someone can play any game for years and NOT burnout, like WarOwl for CSGO or like, Day9 for SC2 or whatever. It's a rare thing.
There’s considerably more CC these days, though. I love OW, but I really hope the next couple heroes have no CC at all. Maybe even a hero that counters it somehow,
There is considerably more CC, though, looking at a full hero count and deciding how much CC is in the game can be a bit misleading, as no matter how many CC heroes exist in the game at large only 6 people can be in the game at a time.
But I mean, since launch you could run:
Roadhog: (Hook CC)
Mei: (Ice CC)
McCree (Flashbang CC)
Lucio: (Boop CC)
Rein: (CC Ult)
And I dunno like Phara: (Boop CC)
Fewer than half the original heroes had CC abilities. Since then, only one of the heroes they’ve added has no CC. However, I don’t even really mind boops. It’s the abilities that take all control away (even if just for a moment) that I don’t like.
The issue is less that there is more CC and more that the options you have are more viable now. McCree, Mei, Pharah, Junkrat are all very situational. But now Doomfist is great for general killing and Brig's healing is crazy good for just about all team fights.
+2
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Just because something is cc does not mean it is the same as every other type of cc. The cc added since launch has been much harder than most at launch, and now there’s so much that it’s rare to have a game without at least one hero that will literally just stop you playing the game while you die on both sides. It’s a garbage design philosophy from blizzard designed to let players of a lower skill level beat higher skilled players. They have a long way to go in fixing this mess they’ve created. I will not play Rein in comp again until Brig and Doom get the large nerfs they need, getting bounced around like a tennis ball and hoping that my team wins on my behalf is not my idea of fun.
problems with streaming and comp play aren't automatically problems for the whole game, but also those areas have increasingly become blizzard's focus?
What interests me is that stuns as presently implemented aren't actually the counter to agile characters that they're intended to be. Yes, they bring the agile character to a hard stop, but all of the game's stuns are either executed at extremely close range, or in the case of Ana's Sleep Dart, is a slow-moving projectile on a huge cooldown that can be negated by damage, or in the case of Roadhog's hook, is attached to a giant load fat body with minimal ranged damage. Agile characters actually have the most tools to avoid getting stunned to begin with. It's just as heretical to the pure-skill set as the idea of a stun in an FPS, but I feel like if the problem is nimble characters having free run of the field, the answer is low-damage auto-aim, homing, or area attacks, as in the Genji-Winston interaction.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
Just because something is cc does not mean it is the same as every other type of cc. The cc added since launch has been much harder than most at launch, and now there’s so much that it’s rare to have a game without at least one hero that will literally just stop you playing the game while you die on both sides. It’s a garbage design philosophy from blizzard designed to let players of a lower skill level beat higher skilled players. They have a long way to go in fixing this mess they’ve created. I will not play Rein in comp again until Brig and Doom get the large nerfs they need, getting bounced around like a tennis ball and hoping that my team wins on my behalf is not my idea of fun.
I guess I just don’t see how CC is inherently lower skill than beating someone by other means. It’s just using the tools given you by the game to win.
TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
Well I finished my placements last night, and here I am back hovering just above 1200, which is fine, I'm not the best at FPS games in the first place. Went 6-3-1 overall, and had some really great games interspersed with some real stinkers. The one draw was tough, but probably the most enjoyable out of all, as there was a lot of back and forth, lots of both sides switching to counter team comps, and goodness me some actual communication and teamwork. One of the wins was terrible, actually, as one of our opponents thought that we had taken all 3 points on Dorado due to having 2 Korean players on our team. They decided that being racist in game chat would make them feel better about themselves, and consequently, half the team dropped out of the game. This did not improve this person's attitude. It was really ugly.
The funniest thing (in hindsight) was a game on King's Row, after getting pretty thoroughly rolled on defense one of our DPS started asking if we could get some "actual healing". Before I could say anything, another team member piped up and said "If you want healing, maybe this time keep that Tracer of our Zenyatta (me)." I was all like HELL YEAH, until I realized that the person sticking up for me was our Brigitte.
Just because something is cc does not mean it is the same as every other type of cc. The cc added since launch has been much harder than most at launch, and now there’s so much that it’s rare to have a game without at least one hero that will literally just stop you playing the game while you die on both sides. It’s a garbage design philosophy from blizzard designed to let players of a lower skill level beat higher skilled players. They have a long way to go in fixing this mess they’ve created. I will not play Rein in comp again until Brig and Doom get the large nerfs they need, getting bounced around like a tennis ball and hoping that my team wins on my behalf is not my idea of fun.
I guess I just don’t see how CC is inherently lower skill than beating someone by other means. It’s just using the tools given you by the game to win.
I think it depends on how the CC works. Compare McCree and Brig, for example. They can both stun, but only one of them can do so from relative safety.
This post is to track further updates to the PTR as we make them. The following changes are planned for a PTR patch that will probably come on Monday.
Brigitte
Shield Bash
Damage reduced from 50 to 5
Inspire Passive
Cooldown reduced from 1.5s to 1.0s
Duration increased from 5s to 6s
Total healing increased from 80 to 100
Dev Notes: Reduces Shield Bash’s damage reduces her total stun combo damage potential while still allowing Whip Shot and her basic melee attacks to retain their full strength. Brigitte is a hybrid tank/healer, and lately we’ve been reducing her effectiveness by reducing the power of her non-healing functionality, but we want to make sure she is still a viable pick so we’re increasing the uptime of her Inspire passive to help increase her overall healing output.
Doomfist
Seismic Slam
Victims no longer lose air control while being pulled in.
Skydrop
Inner ring damage radius increased from 1.5m to 2.0m. This is the ring where Skydrop deals its full 300 damage.
Max damage outside of inner ring decreased from 300 to 200. This is the ring where damage falloff happens, which still reduces the damage down to 15 at max range.
Dev Notes: The PTR Doomfist changes are all about trying to give his enemies more opportunities to effectively fight back, and these changes are no exception. The Skydrop changes will make it harder to secure a “free” kill on heroes without mobility such as Zenyatta or Ana, while still preserving its max potential damage when aimed well or when comboing with other abilities such as Graviton Surge or Sleep Dart.
Overall we’re looking carefully at the amount of crowd control abilities (such as stuns and knockbacks that remove air control) and seeing if we can remove or reduce some of the effectiveness of some of these. Any further changes to this PTR will be posted in this thread as well.
I wish they’d add a short cast time to Doom’s ult. Just a fraction of a second, so there’s a bit of (or indeed any) counter play to it. Right now it’s a perfect escape from any fuck up on top of being the closest thing in the game to a guaranteed pick. The change in the radius split will help with the pick part. Even like 0.1 seconds would make you have to think twice, whereas now a Doom with ult can just do anything they please as long as they have ult to bail them out. Winston has a similar thing but he doesn’t warp out of the map and become totally invulnerable when he ults.
I keep having to explain to my OW friends that the patch change isn't an increase to Brig's raw healing per second output. It's an increase to her healing consistency.
Folks really don't seem to get how she works.
+4
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
edited November 2018
I dunno man the numbers are higher, she is probably healing more
I keep having to explain to my OW friends that the patch change isn't an increase to Brig's raw healing per second output. It's an increase to her healing consistency.
Folks really don't seem to get how she works.
“She’s not healing faster, she’s just healing longer more often... and when I’m dying I don’t want long healing, I want fast healing.”
Try to simplify the language and provide an easy to grok example to increase info adoption rate.
I haven't been following the OWL stuff that closely but today while walking around I discovered NYXL actually has like a physical storefront not far from me, so that's a pretty neat thing to see.
I keep having to explain to my OW friends that the patch change isn't an increase to Brig's raw healing per second output. It's an increase to her healing consistency.
Folks really don't seem to get how she works.
“She’s not healing faster, she’s just healing longer more often... and when I’m dying I don’t want long healing, I want fast healing.”
Try to simplify the language and provide an easy to grok example to increase info adoption rate.
Posts
it sucks that the playerbase is contracting, but i'm still enjoying and enthusiastic about the game so...??
I haven't watched the video but I'm not really surprised that less people might be playing comp? I don't think any of the issues with competitive are issues with the game itself. People are just horrible to each other in general and the game is 2 years old. I played competitive CSGO for a short time and that was far more toxic than Overwatch has ever been. If any given player has the opportunity to shift blame for their poor performance, they almost invariably will.
Like yeah, if you win the first fight in koth you're more likely to win the map. That... isn't a design flaw? A 60%-ish win rate after first fight is actually still a lot of variance! Like the game would be pretty fucked up if winning the first team fight didn't give you any benefit.
He's got a similar perpetual attitude about ult management, where like boo hoo teams with more ults usually win. But having more ults didn't just magically happen, and I don't know why he has always insisted on thinking every team fight should exist in a vacuum. Yes, the decisions your team makes throughout the map end up having an effect on the conclusion of the game. So did the enemy team. It's like complaining that hey, my soccer team was down 1-3, but we scored a goal in the last minute, so it's bullshit we don't get to win when we were the last people to score a point.
I dunno, I just take streamers opinions on the "typical" overwatch experience with a grain of salt. They play anywhere from like 4-8 hours a day, for years. Any game is going to start bugging you after that long, but that doesn't mean it's a fault of the game, it's just natural burnout.
And yeah, as Kana says, playing any game that long can easily lead to burnout. I'm always frankly amazed when someone can play any game for years and NOT burnout, like WarOwl for CSGO or like, Day9 for SC2 or whatever. It's a rare thing.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
But I mean, since launch you could run:
Roadhog: (Hook CC)
Mei: (Ice CC)
McCree (Flashbang CC)
Lucio: (Boop CC)
Rein: (CC Ult)
And I dunno like Phara: (Boop CC)
It's been a CC heavy game since day 1.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Well yes, obviously
https://youtu.be/H_hNU5wUTN8
I guess I just don’t see how CC is inherently lower skill than beating someone by other means. It’s just using the tools given you by the game to win.
You can’t have less fun in comp
If you never had much fun in comp
[/meme ]
But really, I just do my placements and then go back to grouping with PA people, as that’s where the fun is for me.
Thank you, PA people, for being fun.
https://youtu.be/PVF50ZZ1D5s
The funniest thing (in hindsight) was a game on King's Row, after getting pretty thoroughly rolled on defense one of our DPS started asking if we could get some "actual healing". Before I could say anything, another team member piped up and said "If you want healing, maybe this time keep that Tracer of our Zenyatta (me)." I was all like HELL YEAH, until I realized that the person sticking up for me was our Brigitte.
There is one delay after firing if you shoot unscoped.
There is a longer delay after firing if you shoot scoped.
And there is a third even longer delay if you shoot scoped, upscope, rescope and fire.
I wonder if this is to get you to want to commit to staying scoped and being slowed?
It was Baidol, Baidol was the thing burning.
I think it depends on how the CC works. Compare McCree and Brig, for example. They can both stun, but only one of them can do so from relative safety.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
but maybe that's the new name for the nerfed version :razz:
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I have a feeling it's a case of "that's what it was called during development".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jivZ2dvmAhg
I'm kind of okay with that TBH.
Folks really don't seem to get how she works.
Edit dont bring math into it
“She’s not healing faster, she’s just healing longer more often... and when I’m dying I don’t want long healing, I want fast healing.”
Try to simplify the language and provide an easy to grok example to increase info adoption rate.
They want immortality. Only Mercy provides that.