Going forward, White Wolf will focus on brand management. This means White Wolf will develop the guiding principles for its vision of the World of Darkness, and give licensees the tools they need to create new, excellent products in this story world. White Wolf will no longer develop and publish these products internally. This has always been the intended goal for White Wolf as a company, and it is now time to enact it.
That post certainly reads to me like some higher-ups at Paradox went "Why the hell do we keep seeing White Wolf in the news? Get your act together or we'll get it for you."
Going forward, White Wolf will focus on brand management. This means White Wolf will develop the guiding principles for its vision of the World of Darkness, and give licensees the tools they need to create new, excellent products in this story world. White Wolf will no longer develop and publish these products internally. This has always been the intended goal for White Wolf as a company, and it is now time to enact it.
That post certainly reads to me like some higher-ups at Paradox went "Why the hell do we keep seeing White Wolf in the news? Get your act together or we'll get it for you."
It says more to me that someone pointed out that Onyx Path had been handling shit just fine until nuWhite Wolf showed up and started pissing in the soup, so maybe let's go back to that.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
That's for 5th edition; Delduwrath was talking about 20th Anniversary. (I made the same mistake.)
I do remember that the guy who wrote the section said those changes were put in without his input, but I didn't remember if they came from Onyx Path or White Wolf, so fair enough on that.
I do remember that the guy who wrote the section said those changes were put in without his input, but I didn't remember if they came from Onyx Path or White Wolf, so fair enough on that.
It was from WW.
It's about fucking time those idiots got shitcanned. My read of the situation is that some of the license seekers got cold feet at the constant PR gongshow, and they got 86'd to preserve the IP.
I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
These guys got confused and thought they were working at Black Dog Game Factory.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
That's for 5th edition; Delduwrath was talking about 20th Anniversary. (I made the same mistake.)
As a licensee, Onyx Path stuff has to go through approvals and revisions by WW corporate, and Holden Shearer, the guy who wrote those sections in W20, says that the shitty stuff was added without his knowledge or consent after he'd sent the pages off.
He could be lying, or mistaken about where the changes got put in, and Holden has his own issues that have come up with regards to how he handled Exalted 3 and some other stuff that I'm not totally dialed in on, but he hasn't traditionally been a transphobe and it would be sort of weird for him to just start doing it in that one place.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
That's for 5th edition; Delduwrath was talking about 20th Anniversary. (I made the same mistake.)
As a licensee, Onyx Path stuff has to go through approvals and revisions by WW corporate, and Holden Shearer, the guy who wrote those sections in W20, says that the shitty stuff was added without his knowledge or consent after he'd sent the pages off.
He could be lying, or mistaken about where the changes got put in, and Holden has his own issues that have come up with regards to how he handled Exalted 3 and some other stuff that I'm not totally dialed in on, but he hasn't traditionally been a transphobe and it would be sort of weird for him to just start doing it in that one place.
Oh shit, I misread the tweets!
I thought he was saying transphobic stuff got added to 5th edition, but I got confused because he was talking about inserting 5th edition metaplot stuff into 20th. Guess I should have trusted my original read.
My bad!!
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
This news story broke into my feed, and I caught up on the last few pages.
Was the head writer talking about restructuring back in September a prelude to this? Or is this more changes beyond that?
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
That's for 5th edition; Delduwrath was talking about 20th Anniversary. (I made the same mistake.)
As a licensee, Onyx Path stuff has to go through approvals and revisions by WW corporate, and Holden Shearer, the guy who wrote those sections in W20, says that the shitty stuff was added without his knowledge or consent after he'd sent the pages off.
He could be lying, or mistaken about where the changes got put in, and Holden has his own issues that have come up with regards to how he handled Exalted 3 and some other stuff that I'm not totally dialed in on, but he hasn't traditionally been a transphobe and it would be sort of weird for him to just start doing it in that one place.
More to the point, another person working for OPP at the time, one Stu Wilson, confirmed that it was outside tampering.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
The source is Holden Shearer, who should not be believed. About anything.
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
The source is Holden Shearer, who should not be believed. About anything.
What about Stu Wilson, who said basically the same thing, hmm? Edit: Username Digital Raven on Something Awful.
Jeep-Eep on
I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
Well, mostly fine, it sounds like, given that the 20th Anniversary edition of Werewolf had that anti-trans element, and from what I understand Beast: the Primordial was problematic head-to-toe. On the other hand, I think that both of those had less visibility/publicity than putting something as absurd as their handling of Chechnya into the closely-watched new edition of their flagship product line.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
The source is Holden Shearer, who should not be believed. About anything.
What about Stu Wilson, who said basically the same thing, hmm?
I have no idea who Stu Wilson is, and they have no credits on any WW or OPP products. But in general I'm going to take anything stated by an unreliable source with ane extra grain of salt even if there are corroborators. People are fallible and we have no idea what the interactions were. Having worked with a licensing organization before I can tell you that they are far less likely to tell you to add something than they are to ask you to remove something. Most problems crop up because of a quick review missing something rather than "executive meddling."
The bottom line is that Holden Shearer is a proven unreliable source, and taking anything he says at face value is a terrible idea.
Apparently Modius still will be contracting to them.
Yeah, but why not put them in charge? They carried the WOD torch for years.
Because Onyx Path literally doesn't have the publishing capability to bring this stuff to mass printing. Modiphius does. They've said they are still going to work with OP and for the most part everyone involved in the entire industry is an independent freelancer so I have no doubt that the same people will be running the individual product lines.
edit: despite being a much younger company, Modiphius is also a significantly larger company than Onyx Path which is basically Rich Thomas and whoever he can call into the office that day.
Oh right, I forgot about Paradox's big huge plans.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Modiphius is a really weird company. They must be incredibly well capitalized or just mashing the YOLO button on debt because they seem to pick up a new high-profile (at least in RPG terms) license every few months now. I mean, Conan, Star Trek, Fallout, Kung Fu Panda, John Carter - things that real people have actually heard of - as well as stuff that's got cred in the tabletop world, like Symbarum, Mutant Chronicles, and Infinity.
I'm kind of on the fence about them as a company. 2d20 is a good system and Star Trek, Conan, and Infinity are legitimately terrific games (I'm not throwing shade on the other stuff, I just haven't read or played it) but they have a ton of copy-editing and quality control issues that make me hesitant to drop money on those nice-looking glossy premium books (because who wants to pay $80 for something full of really embarrassing typos and sloppy printing goofs?) and I come away with the strong impression that a lot of their products could have benefited from another few months in the oven.
Their business model seems to rely on picking up one of these prestige licenses and then immediately turning it into a whole line of premium products: expensive glossy books, resin minis, lots of chits and tokens and custom dice and so forth. I'm kind of surprised that they can make a go of that when so many other RPG businesses have folded...and maybe they can't! Maybe their quality control issues are because they're constantly laying track down right in front of a moving train.
But that ambition also explains to me how they snagged the WW license. They can walk into a guy's office and drop a Borg cube full of hardcover books and high-resolution resin minis and nice-looking toys and shit on the desk. It's got to be a way more appealing sales pitch than Onyx Path going "well, me and my buddy Fred can make you a PDF if you give us a year."
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I kind of do and don't know who they are
I know about them because I remembered Warzone AKA Mutant Chronicles, trawled around their minis debated if I wanted to get some {this was before my tumble back into 40k} Remembered them again after I got back into 40k saw they got a bunch more licenses
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
Modiphius is a really weird company. They must be incredibly well capitalized or just mashing the YOLO button on debt because they seem to pick up a new high-profile (at least in RPG terms) license every few months now. I mean, Conan, Star Trek, Fallout, Kung Fu Panda, John Carter - things that real people have actually heard of - as well as stuff that's got cred in the tabletop world, like Symbarum, Mutant Chronicles, and Infinity.
I'm kind of on the fence about them as a company. 2d20 is a good system and Star Trek, Conan, and Infinity are legitimately terrific games (I'm not throwing shade on the other stuff, I just haven't read or played it) but they have a ton of copy-editing and quality control issues that make me hesitant to drop money on those nice-looking glossy premium books (because who wants to pay $80 for something full of really embarrassing typos and sloppy printing goofs?) and I come away with the strong impression that a lot of their products could have benefited from another few months in the oven.
Their business model seems to rely on picking up one of these prestige licenses and then immediately turning it into a whole line of premium products: expensive glossy books, resin minis, lots of chits and tokens and custom dice and so forth. I'm kind of surprised that they can make a go of that when so many other RPG businesses have folded...and maybe they can't! Maybe their quality control issues are because they're constantly laying track down right in front of a moving train.
But that ambition also explains to me how they snagged the WW license. They can walk into a guy's office and drop a Borg cube full of hardcover books and high-resolution resin minis and nice-looking toys and shit on the desk. It's got to be a way more appealing sales pitch than Onyx Path going "well, me and my buddy Fred can make you a PDF if you give us a year."
Yeah, Modiphius and Fantasy Flight are basically the only two companies I can think of that have he ability to turn around slick RPGs fairly quickly. FFG tends to take a bit kore time and doesn’t produce as many minis (their cards are great though). Their writing tends to get a few more editing / proofing passes, though. I might also give an honorable mention to Cubicle 7 for the number of extremely well done game lines they have been able to get out, but they are definitely smaller scale and don’t get into the cool little add-one biz.
All in all, this is a move I would have some tentative excitement about. The idea of Modiphius’ production quality (editing / proofing aside) and partnering with people like OP has the potential to produce some really special game supplements.
Posts
That post certainly reads to me like some higher-ups at Paradox went "Why the hell do we keep seeing White Wolf in the news? Get your act together or we'll get it for you."
It says more to me that someone pointed out that Onyx Path had been handling shit just fine until nuWhite Wolf showed up and started pissing in the soup, so maybe let's go back to that.
The werewolf changes supposedly came down from White Wolf, not Onyx Path from what I remember. Though all I'd heard was second hand stuff so take with a lump of salt.
That's for 5th edition; Delduwrath was talking about 20th Anniversary. (I made the same mistake.)
It was from WW.
It's about fucking time those idiots got shitcanned. My read of the situation is that some of the license seekers got cold feet at the constant PR gongshow, and they got 86'd to preserve the IP.
As a licensee, Onyx Path stuff has to go through approvals and revisions by WW corporate, and Holden Shearer, the guy who wrote those sections in W20, says that the shitty stuff was added without his knowledge or consent after he'd sent the pages off.
He could be lying, or mistaken about where the changes got put in, and Holden has his own issues that have come up with regards to how he handled Exalted 3 and some other stuff that I'm not totally dialed in on, but he hasn't traditionally been a transphobe and it would be sort of weird for him to just start doing it in that one place.
Oh shit, I misread the tweets!
I thought he was saying transphobic stuff got added to 5th edition, but I got confused because he was talking about inserting 5th edition metaplot stuff into 20th. Guess I should have trusted my original read.
My bad!!
Was the head writer talking about restructuring back in September a prelude to this? Or is this more changes beyond that?
More to the point, another person working for OPP at the time, one Stu Wilson, confirmed that it was outside tampering.
Edit: Goon Project: Unfuck WOD:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3712435&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=638
What about Stu Wilson, who said basically the same thing, hmm? Edit: Username Digital Raven on Something Awful.
The bottom line is that Holden Shearer is a proven unreliable source, and taking anything he says at face value is a terrible idea.
Modiphius now has taken over running WOD's PnP elements.
Yeah, but why not put them in charge? They carried the WOD torch for years.
Because Onyx Path literally doesn't have the publishing capability to bring this stuff to mass printing. Modiphius does. They've said they are still going to work with OP and for the most part everyone involved in the entire industry is an independent freelancer so I have no doubt that the same people will be running the individual product lines.
edit: despite being a much younger company, Modiphius is also a significantly larger company than Onyx Path which is basically Rich Thomas and whoever he can call into the office that day.
I'm kind of on the fence about them as a company. 2d20 is a good system and Star Trek, Conan, and Infinity are legitimately terrific games (I'm not throwing shade on the other stuff, I just haven't read or played it) but they have a ton of copy-editing and quality control issues that make me hesitant to drop money on those nice-looking glossy premium books (because who wants to pay $80 for something full of really embarrassing typos and sloppy printing goofs?) and I come away with the strong impression that a lot of their products could have benefited from another few months in the oven.
Their business model seems to rely on picking up one of these prestige licenses and then immediately turning it into a whole line of premium products: expensive glossy books, resin minis, lots of chits and tokens and custom dice and so forth. I'm kind of surprised that they can make a go of that when so many other RPG businesses have folded...and maybe they can't! Maybe their quality control issues are because they're constantly laying track down right in front of a moving train.
But that ambition also explains to me how they snagged the WW license. They can walk into a guy's office and drop a Borg cube full of hardcover books and high-resolution resin minis and nice-looking toys and shit on the desk. It's got to be a way more appealing sales pitch than Onyx Path going "well, me and my buddy Fred can make you a PDF if you give us a year."
I kind of do and don't know who they are
I know about them because I remembered Warzone AKA Mutant Chronicles, trawled around their minis debated if I wanted to get some {this was before my tumble back into 40k} Remembered them again after I got back into 40k saw they got a bunch more licenses
Yeah, Modiphius and Fantasy Flight are basically the only two companies I can think of that have he ability to turn around slick RPGs fairly quickly. FFG tends to take a bit kore time and doesn’t produce as many minis (their cards are great though). Their writing tends to get a few more editing / proofing passes, though. I might also give an honorable mention to Cubicle 7 for the number of extremely well done game lines they have been able to get out, but they are definitely smaller scale and don’t get into the cool little add-one biz.
All in all, this is a move I would have some tentative excitement about. The idea of Modiphius’ production quality (editing / proofing aside) and partnering with people like OP has the potential to produce some really special game supplements.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
The last vestiges of New White Wolf are being purged.