BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
Educated guess, first stage ran out of thruster propellant (for the second time), lost control authority
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
It looked to me like maybe it hit some turbulence. :shrug: Either way, we hopefully have enough to tear apart and see how the structure held up compared to the first v5 rocket.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Just before they cut the video you could see the grid fins pegged at maximum roll trying to counter the rockets spin. No idea what caused that to start though.
Never mind - just saw it again and they seemed to be reacting to the rotation. Just didn't seem to have enough control. Wonder if something broke out of camera sight.
BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
I gotta go again so someone else may break news if SpaceX provides an explanation any time today, but I suppose I'll have to live with that possibility
Catch ya later, Space Thread!
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
Reading people talking about the spin in the twitter thread, and who know how much any of it is accurate, but if the rocket did indeed use onboard controls to initiate a spin, then use a slightly off axis spin to put the center engine somewhere it could stabilize the spin, then holy shit, that is some serious programming, and forethought.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Reading people talking about the spin in the twitter thread, and who know how much any of it is accurate, but if the rocket did indeed use onboard controls to initiate a spin, then use a slightly off axis spin to put the center engine somewhere it could stabilize the spin, then holy shit, that is some serious programming, and forethought.
The fact it still almost stuck the landing after the maneuvers it had to do is pretty damn impressive. And it set down well enough that some of it is likely salvagable is really impressive. Normally when stuff like that fails it is pancake city.
Engines will be toast but maybe they can salvage the main body, legs and the expensive Ti grid fins. But the important thing is it looks like the space rats made it to orbit safely.
Seal on
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
Engine's will be toast but maybe they can salvage the main body, legs and the expensive Ti grid fins. But the important thing is it looks like the space rats made it to orbit safely.
Elon tweeted about using it for "internal purposes" which Isuspect means they'll do testing on what they can until it explodes
And also yeah, recovering the grid fins is a bonus and a priority I suspect, because those will be ready to fly again no problem!
Our brave space rodents getting their food refreshed before flight and now bravely traveling in orbit en route to the ISS are the real heroes indeed
Reading people talking about the spin in the twitter thread, and who know how much any of it is accurate, but if the rocket did indeed use onboard controls to initiate a spin, then use a slightly off axis spin to put the center engine somewhere it could stabilize the spin, then holy shit, that is some serious programming, and forethought.
It's funny you mention forethought, because I think back to the loss of CRS-7, where they effectively lost the Dragon and the cargo (including that expensive docking adapter :bigfrown: ) all because they hadn't thought to program a routine for the Dragon to deploy its parachutes in the event of a launch failure. And I always wondered if that affected the company more than they let on - the idea of preparing for failure more robustly, having backups for backups, etc.
We saw how crazy SpaceX went when it was revealed that an outside-sourced strut was the failure in that launch, too - they completely revamped their supply chain. I'll be interested to see what changes, redundancies, extra lube they introduce into the rocket :P
What the heck was that puff of fire shooting out from the top of the kerosene tank, is that new? Some kind of mechanism to purge excess fuel after landing?
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BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
Huh, wow if it had made it to the barge there's a good chance it would have stuck, impressive.
Shore, it was going to do a shore landing, and diverted because of the irregularity. Better safe than exploding closer to people than necessary.
You couldn't tell on the initial broadcast (because the hosts weren't sure how to interpret it), but the first stage knew it was in trouble and started diverting its course away from LZ-1 and toward the water before the entry burn even began (though technically it's the entry burn that accomplishes the task of putting the first stage on target for LZ-1, but you know what I mean).
It made the decision to bail much earlier than it might appear!
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
This incident really showcases how much control authority the fins have. The fins get stuck and the whole thing just start spinning like a top.
I saw it suggested that the spin was intentional, since it couldn't use the grid fins to control its flight normally, it used the three working fins to spin, which allowed it more control on the way down. It pitches around for a couple of seconds, and then enters a very controlled spin fairly quickly.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
BeNarwhalThe Work Left UnfinishedRegistered Userregular
Also this drops us back below 50% for the number of Falcon 9s launched vs the number of Falcon 9s landed, but they have two more launches this year to make it right!
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Also this drops us back below 50% for the number of Falcon 9s launched vs the number of Falcon 9s landed, but they have two more launches this year to make it right!
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
This one landed, just not where they hoped it would! It didn't even explode!
Edit: It's more intact than anything from the competitors would be.
Brody on
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Also this drops us back below 50% for the number of Falcon 9s launched vs the number of Falcon 9s landed, but they have two more launches this year to make it right!
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
Why is the GPS using an expendable rocket? Does it need to get to a different orbit that would make it hard to land the first stage?
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Also this drops us back below 50% for the number of Falcon 9s launched vs the number of Falcon 9s landed, but they have two more launches this year to make it right!
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
Why is the GPS using an expendable rocket? Does it need to get to a different orbit that would make it hard to land the first stage?
It probably extends the life span of the satellite by using more fuel from the first stage.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Also this drops us back below 50% for the number of Falcon 9s launched vs the number of Falcon 9s landed, but they have two more launches this year to make it right!
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
Why is the GPS using an expendable rocket? Does it need to get to a different orbit that would make it hard to land the first stage?
It probably extends the life span of the satellite by using more fuel from the first stage.
Yep, and GPS is tricky because they're direct deliveries to MEO - the rarely-visited Medium Earth Orbit - in this instance, exactly half of a geostationary orbit (12 hours rather than 24).
So it actually needs all the performance it can to get there!
Also this drops us back below 50% for the number of Falcon 9s launched vs the number of Falcon 9s landed, but they have two more launches this year to make it right!
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
This one landed, just not where they hoped it would! It didn't even explode!
Edit: It's more intact than anything from the competitors would be.
Honestly had it tried to touch down on land there is a decent chance it would have stuck the landing it was damn close even on water. For a "failure" it was a reasonably controlled one that left basically fully intact rocket to hand to the engineers to get precise look at what happened and how to prevent it in the future.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Posts
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
It was frozen condensation.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
That was later in the flight, the event at +3:20 was the Dragon nosecone
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
It means iteration and improvement, usually!
And of course primary mission success, but failure in that regard would be REAL news for any rocket
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Catch ya later, Space Thread!
https://clips.twitch.tv/CleverSpineyEggPrimeMe
Reading people talking about the spin in the twitter thread, and who know how much any of it is accurate, but if the rocket did indeed use onboard controls to initiate a spin, then use a slightly off axis spin to put the center engine somewhere it could stabilize the spin, then holy shit, that is some serious programming, and forethought.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
The fact it still almost stuck the landing after the maneuvers it had to do is pretty damn impressive. And it set down well enough that some of it is likely salvagable is really impressive. Normally when stuff like that fails it is pancake city.
Elon tweeted about using it for "internal purposes" which Isuspect means they'll do testing on what they can until it explodes
And also yeah, recovering the grid fins is a bonus and a priority I suspect, because those will be ready to fly again no problem!
Our brave space rodents getting their food refreshed before flight and now bravely traveling in orbit en route to the ISS are the real heroes indeed
It's funny you mention forethought, because I think back to the loss of CRS-7, where they effectively lost the Dragon and the cargo (including that expensive docking adapter :bigfrown: ) all because they hadn't thought to program a routine for the Dragon to deploy its parachutes in the event of a launch failure. And I always wondered if that affected the company more than they let on - the idea of preparing for failure more robustly, having backups for backups, etc.
We saw how crazy SpaceX went when it was revealed that an outside-sourced strut was the failure in that launch, too - they completely revamped their supply chain. I'll be interested to see what changes, redundancies, extra lube they introduce into the rocket :P
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Shore, it was going to do a shore landing, and diverted because of the irregularity. Better safe than exploding closer to people than necessary.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
You couldn't tell on the initial broadcast (because the hosts weren't sure how to interpret it), but the first stage knew it was in trouble and started diverting its course away from LZ-1 and toward the water before the entry burn even began (though technically it's the entry burn that accomplishes the task of putting the first stage on target for LZ-1, but you know what I mean).
It made the decision to bail much earlier than it might appear!
Ah I see. Yeah it's a very reasonable precaution, just impressed by the level of control in a damaged craft
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
This incident really showcases how much control authority the fins have. The fins get stuck and the whole thing just starts spinning like a top.
I saw it suggested that the spin was intentional, since it couldn't use the grid fins to control its flight normally, it used the three working fins to spin, which allowed it more control on the way down. It pitches around for a couple of seconds, and then enters a very controlled spin fairly quickly.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Ninja edit: Though upon further inspection only one of the two remaining launches features a landing attempt (The GPS launch is flying expendable), so we'll have to wait 'til 2019 to get back to 50%, darn it :P
This one landed, just not where they hoped it would! It didn't even explode!
Edit: It's more intact than anything from the competitors would be.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Why is the GPS using an expendable rocket? Does it need to get to a different orbit that would make it hard to land the first stage?
It probably extends the life span of the satellite by using more fuel from the first stage.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Yep, and GPS is tricky because they're direct deliveries to MEO - the rarely-visited Medium Earth Orbit - in this instance, exactly half of a geostationary orbit (12 hours rather than 24).
So it actually needs all the performance it can to get there!
Honestly had it tried to touch down on land there is a decent chance it would have stuck the landing it was damn close even on water. For a "failure" it was a reasonably controlled one that left basically fully intact rocket to hand to the engineers to get precise look at what happened and how to prevent it in the future.
Man, Elon Musk's Kerbal Space Simulator is so much better than mine.
Rich people, am I right?
We all need a little help from our friends from time to time!
[Hearing Esperanza communicating over the radio instead of over the tower frequency, Garber hands Stuart a radio]
Col. Stuart: Go ahead, Falcon.
Gen. Ramon Esperanza: I've lost cabin pressure. Near zero visibility. I must get out of the storm, and land now, on the first accessible runway.