Which is a shame, because Whedon has done some fantastic villains - though possibly his strengths weren't really helped by the MCU's tendency to use a villain once and then dispose of them. IMO Whedon's at his best when he can develop characters over a longer narrative.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Which is a shame, because Whedon has done some fantastic villains - though possibly his strengths weren't really helped by the MCU's tendency to use a villain once and then dispose of them. IMO Whedon's at his best when he can develop characters over a longer narrative.
Giant summer blockbusters that come out every few years really aren't the best vehicle for character development. They've managed it with Loki, but that took three movies and a fair amount of screen time in those movies.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Which is a shame, because Whedon has done some fantastic villains - though possibly his strengths weren't really helped by the MCU's tendency to use a villain once and then dispose of them. IMO Whedon's at his best when he can develop characters over a longer narrative.
Giant summer blockbusters that come out every few years really aren't the best vehicle for character development. They've managed it with Loki, but that took three movies and a fair amount of screen time in those movies.
That's because they actually tried with Loki, everyone else was left to die. If more villains were allowed to live for more than one appearance they could be bought back as Big Bads again, or serve other villains. Thankfully this was averted in Spider-man: Homecoming
where Scorpion and Vulture lived to survive another day.
It's a pity Stane didn't survive, they could have done something with him later on.
There's very little risk of them running out of villains, and keeping the same ones coming back again and again runs the risk of being accused of just trying to re-package them because it's lazier (like people complaining that Joker ends up as the main villain in virtually every Batman game).
Besides, let's go through the movies:
Stane: Killed
Abomination: Incarcerated, everyone's tried to forget about him. Ross: Drunk
Whiplash: Suicided. Hammer: Arrested
Loki: 'Killed'
Red Skull: 'Killed'
Loki: Captured
Killian: Killed, 'Mandarin': Arrested
Christopher Eccleston: Killed. Loki: 'Killed'
Zola: Killed (assuming no backups, it'd take 2 minutes to write his survival). Pierce: Killed. Crossbones: Maimed. Bucky: Escaped
Ronan: Killed. Nebula: Escaped
Ultron: Killed
Yellowjacket: Killed
Crossbones: Killed. Zemo: Captured.
Kaecilius: Stuck in another dimension, not enjoying it. Dormammu: Stalemated into capitulation, likely very pissed off about it. Mordo: Putting on his villain shoes.
Ego: Killed. Sovereign Lady: alive, still angry
Vulture, Future Scorpion: Captured
Surtur: Killed doing what he loved, destroying Asgard. Hela: Killed doing what she hated, being on Asgard while Surtur was doing what he loved. Grandmaster: Overthrown, but still alive when the cameras stopped rolling.
Killmaster: Killed
Thanos Groupies: Killed. Thanos: Retired and feeling pretty good about himself, thanks for asking.
Ghost: Escaped and largely forgiven. Other Criminal Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember: Arrested
That's 40 villains, 18 of whom have died. More than any other particular fate, but it's not a slaughter.
Considering that 'why don't they just shoot them?' is a common complaint when villains are beaten but left alive, this feels reasonable. Most of the ones who've died were either too dangerous to allow to live, or too one-note to make bringing them back a particularly compelling prospect. I'm happy with them looking for new characters rather than risk making the heroes seem to incompetent to beat the ones they've got.
klemming on
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Which is a shame, because Whedon has done some fantastic villains - though possibly his strengths weren't really helped by the MCU's tendency to use a villain once and then dispose of them. IMO Whedon's at his best when he can develop characters over a longer narrative.
Giant summer blockbusters that come out every few years really aren't the best vehicle for character development. They've managed it with Loki, but that took three movies and a fair amount of screen time in those movies.
That's because they actually tried with Loki, everyone else was left to die. If more villains were allowed to live for more than one appearance they could be bought back as Big Bads again, or serve other villains. Thankfully this was averted in Spider-man: Homecoming
where Scorpion and Vulture lived to survive another day.
It's a pity Stane didn't survive, they could have done something with him later on.
Loki's motive and goals also gave them that option. Murderbots that want to wipe out humanity or poorly lit aliens who want to kill everyone in the galaxy or reboot the universe into dark mode are hard to excuse leaving around for future movies. It's similar to the Batman's Joker problem.
Stane was pretty good, but that was the first MCU and their script wasn't much more than a blank page with the setting, the characters in the scene, and a quick prayer that the actors could manage some witty conversation to fill the time. It would have been nice for him to survive, but they're just lucky they managed to make that good of a movie in the first place.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I'm still hoping we get an Ultron version of Vision voiced by James Spader in the next Avengers. Since Vision is supposed to be an amalgamation of the Mind Stone, Jarvis, and Ultron. It would be a fun temporary change for them to try and revive Vision but we get colorless cold logic Vision who's more of a smart ass because he's actually just really angry and wants revenge for Wanda.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Ho shit. That would be some good stuff. Yes plz.
Would ya keep Bettany's face? Have him try and mimic Spader's performance? :P
I do wonder how cold and logical he would be tho. Ultron's main beef was being a human style mind stuck in a robot body, he wasn't logical at all, sacrificing some of his massive advantages in favour of feeling comfortable.
There's very little risk of them running out of villains, and keeping the same ones coming back again and again runs the risk of being accused of just trying to re-package them because it's lazier (like people complaining that Joker ends up as the main villain in virtually every Batman game).
Besides, let's go through the movies:
Stane: Killed
Abomination: Incarcerated, everyone's tried to forget about him. Ross: Drunk
Whiplash: Suicided. Hammer: Arrested
Loki: 'Killed'
Red Skull: 'Killed'
Loki: Captured
Killian: Killed, 'Mandarin': Arrested
Christopher Eccleston: Killed. Loki: 'Killed'
Zola: Killed (assuming no backups, it'd take 2 minutes to write his survival). Pierce: Killed. Crossbones: Maimed. Bucky: Escaped
Ronan: Killed. Nebula: Escaped
Ultron: Killed
Yellowjacket: Killed
Crossbones: Killed. Zemo: Captured.
Kaecilius: Stuck in another dimension, not enjoying it. Dormammu: Stalemated into capitulation, likely very pissed off about it. Mordo: Putting on his villain shoes.
Ego: Killed. Sovereign Lady: alive, still angry
Vulture, Future Scorpion: Captured
Surtur: Killed doing what he loved, destroying Asgard. Hela: Killed doing what she hated, being on Asgard while Surtur was doing what he loved. Grandmaster: Overthrown, but still alive when the cameras stopped rolling.
Kilgrave: Killed
Thanos Groupies: Killed. Thanos: Retired and feeling pretty good about himself, thanks for asking.
Ghost: Escaped and largely forgiven. Other Criminal Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember: Arrested
That's 40 villains, 18 of whom have died. More than any other particular fate, but it's not a slaughter.
Considering that 'why don't they just shoot them?' is a common complaint when villains are beaten but left alive, this feels reasonable. Most of the ones who've died were either too dangerous to allow to live, or too one-note to make bringing them back a particularly compelling prospect. I'm happy with them looking for new characters rather than risk making the heroes seem to incompetent to beat the ones they've got.
Villains in the MCU
The problem is 99% of the time villains die, unless they're Loki. Another is that the MCU doesn't have a good track record of utilising villains weren't killed, they simply put them into a cage or something and forget they exist. Re-occurring villains don't have a bad thing, and they can be a small group, but right now the group consists of three people: Loki, Thanos and Red Skull. I don't count Ghost or Nebula villains after their first appearance, they became either neutral to anti-heroes, which they never would have had that grow if the heroes killed them. Zemo has what it takes to be an intriguing villain again, I don't see the point of keeping him alive if they never were planning to use him in more movies. Hammer could have easily slid into the tv side, like AoS, the actor has mentioned in the past they'd be game for that but nothing materialised.
One of the more interesting elements to villains in the comics is that they can team up and form their own groups, which shouldn't be something only the heroes can do and be excellent with stories in. For example, the Masters of Evil:
If they are able to survive Zemo can create
Abomination is right there waiting to join this or another group.
The tv side actually does this well, since they don't kill off their villains with such consistency - this is why Purple Man survived until the last episode of JJ season 1 rather than when he meets her the first time in the present. Many, many villains have thrived on the tv side - and some of those ended up dying later on.
DD tv series spoilers
Kingpin and Bullseye both survived multiple seasons, and the show was setting up Bullseye to come back next season. This wouldn't be possible if they were killed off asap.
AoS has had quite a few excellent re-occuring villains, and Big Bad's. The one off generally don't make that much of an impression because they're simply there to die.
The tv side uses the format to expand on their character, give them depth they're not just one episode villains so the audience gets to connect to them, despite many dying later on in the series.
Since Marvel is regaining the Fantastic Four it'd be a waste of Dr. Doom if he gets permanently killed off after his first appearance another is Galactus who could be a phase event to be destroyed in his final appearance.
Stane was pretty good, but that was the first MCU and their script wasn't much more than a blank page with the setting, the characters in the scene, and a quick prayer that the actors could manage some witty conversation to fill the time. It would have been nice for him to survive, but they're just lucky they managed to make that good of a movie in a cave, with a box of scraps.
The MCU has had some great villains. Vulture, Killgrave, Hela, Thanos, Ego, and Ultron really stand out for me. But I'm of the opinion that the movies have progressively gotten better at about the same speed that the bar is raised.
For me the MCU has two periods. There is the MCU before Winter Soldier/Guardians and then after. Even Loki is overshadowed by the later villains.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited December 2018
I would love to see more Justin Hammer. I also just really enjoy Sam Rockwell.
Spader as Ultron has possibly my favorite line reading of any MCU movie which is when the Avengers show up on Klaue's ship and he yells out "Oh for the love of god." The line sounds like Spader accidentally spilled his coffee on him in the recording booth and they just kept that. It makes me laugh every fucking time.
I would also like to see Eccelston come back in a non wasted role.
Looks like the Infinity War 2 trailer has been put off until Friday. From reading a few articles, it's being cited that Disney wouldn't want to have conflicted optics with having that come out during the President's funeral, both due to optics and the stock exchange being closed (as in; they won't have this land at a time when it can't bump their stock price up).
Apparently the Spider-Man: Far From Home trailer will debut on the 8th as well.
(while the word "trailer" is being used all over, I fully expect both of these to be Teasers, with room to be pleasantly surprised if it's more than just ominous music (keep knocking those variations on the Avengers theme out of the park, folks), a title, and a some vague imagery.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Looks like the Infinity War 2 trailer has been put off until Friday. From reading a few articles, it's being cited that Disney wouldn't want to have conflicted optics with having that come out during the President's funeral, both due to optics and the stock exchange being closed (as in; they won't have this land at a time when it can't bump their stock price up).
Apparently the Spider-Man: Far From Home trailer will debut on the 8th as well.
(while the word "trailer" is being used all over, I fully expect both of these to be Teasers, with room to be pleasantly surprised if it's more than just ominous music (keep knocking those variations on the Avengers theme out of the park, folks), a title, and a some vague imagery.
Infinity War 2 Trailer: How will it end!? What will become of our heroes!? See the exciting conclusion!
Spider Man: Far From Home: Oh here's Spider Man, so I guess he's going to come back and be fine after all.
It amuses me getting both of these trailers on the same day.
Viskod on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It doesn't take much meta awareness to expect Spider-Man to, y'know, not stay 'dead'/missing.
I also don't think it's just us genre/comic aware types in these sorts of threads that didn't expect all of those losses to stick if you thought about it for a fraction of a second. Black Panther was one of the biggest movies of the year, there's no way that isn't getting a sequel. As many of us have said in the past year, I fully expect IW2 to have some losses that stick in a much more permanent fashion. And that meta knowledge didn't at all prevent me from being emotionally gutpunched in the theater. Seriously, Marvel, having the Infinity War logo fade away like that was just twisting the knife.
Much like Spider-Man, they could go with a new version (Miles is right there, Shuri too), but I'm not expecting it.
If the trailer leaned in that direction though, just as a misdirection, I'd laugh for days.
As I said before, 'lie to me, Marvel'.
Given the outrage over a black Stormtrooper, I can't even imagine the internet breaking apoplectic fury over a black Spider-Man, even if it was a bit of a ruse (in part or in full).
Between Spider-Man's PS4 game and Into the Spider-Verse, the character is getting a fair number of nods this year.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I wonder if you could make something that looked good where the left/right half of the screen was movie shots and the right/left half was chyron or something. Alternate back and forth throughout the trailer.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Black Widow's banter with Captain America in Winter Soldier was delightful. I wish I could have seen that in the rest of the films.
You know what? Set her up with Cap. Okay, it's like dating grandpa, but grandpa is ripped.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
It doesn't take much meta awareness to expect Spider-Man to, y'know, not stay 'dead'/missing.
I also don't think it's just us genre/comic aware types in these sorts of threads that didn't expect all of those losses to stick if you thought about it for a fraction of a second. Black Panther was one of the biggest movies of the year, there's no way that isn't getting a sequel. As many of us have said in the past year, I fully expect IW2 to have some losses that stick in a much more permanent fashion. And that meta knowledge didn't at all prevent me from being emotionally gutpunched in the theater. Seriously, Marvel, having the Infinity War logo fade away like that was just twisting the knife.
Much like Spider-Man, they could go with a new version (Miles is right there, Shuri too), but I'm not expecting it.
If the trailer leaned in that direction though, just as a misdirection, I'd laugh for days.
As I said before, 'lie to me, Marvel'.
Given the outrage over a black Stormtrooper, I can't even imagine the internet breaking apoplectic fury over a black Spider-Man, even if it was a bit of a ruse (in part or in full).
Between Spider-Man's PS4 game and Into the Spider-Verse, the character is getting a fair number of nods this year.
I, too, want Marvel to lie to me, but it needs to be a good lie.
If they teased bringing Miles into the world and then didn't, that would be a bad lie.
I dont see any reason they would float a Homecoming 2 trailer this early.
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
I dont see any reason they would float a Homecoming 2 trailer this early.
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
It's not like rash actions by Sony are some sort of unheard of concept. Sony just wants to cash in on the hype wave that the Avengers 4 trailer would produce.
Also, this isn't like a "I'd like this to happen rumor" It's something the Collider is reporting.
I dont see any reason they would float a Homecoming 2 trailer this early.
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
I can see Sony wanting to release the HC2 trailer to cash in from the hype from the first movie in hopes that it'll cause some of those fans to seek out other Spider-man media, and oh look there's some Spider-man media right over there.
I dont see any reason they would float a Homecoming 2 trailer this early.
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
It's not like rash actions by Sony are some sort of unheard of concept. Sony just wants to cash in on the hype wave that the Avengers 4 trailer would produce.
Also, this isn't like a "I'd like this to happen rumor" It's something the Collider is reporting.
It just doesn't make sense and contradicts with the way Marvel usually does things.
Best read I can think of -if they DID- release a Far From Home trailer, it would be on Sony's behest and maybe to gen hype for SpiderVerse? But....why? That movie is getting rave reviews, and it's just a week away. With a Far From home trailer there is a vastly different release date and i just dont see why you'd muddle the waters with multiple release dates. I can see a new SpiderVerse trailer, or a "hey excited for more comic book movies? WE HAVE ONE JUST A WEEK AWAY! Its getting amazing reviews! Come see it!"
It would be pretty stupid to release the Spider-Man trailer before Infinity War comes out.
Sure, we know he’s coming back. But there’s a difference between having meta-knowledge of the medium you search for details on, and publicly advertising before the fucking conclusion of an 11 year arc is even released in theaters.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I, too, want Marvel to lie to me, but it needs to be a good lie.
If they teased bringing Miles into the world and then didn't, that would be a bad lie.
To be clear, I'd love to see a live action version of Miles.
I'm more saying that they could cut the trailer to make it seem like it's only him, when in reality they both show up. A Far From Home trailer that builds some hype while not flagrantly giving up part of Infinity War 2 half a year before it's out, no matter how much the audience is expecting it.
Far more realistically I'm expecting it to be strictly a teaser. Probably won't even show the character. Thwip thwip, webbing everywhere, someone gasps, cut to black with the release date. That kind of thing.
At the same time, the aggressive '3 movies in 5 months' lineup they have set for themselves does mean that they will likely need to give up *something* eventually.
I just can't imagine them not even having a proper trailer until after IW2 is out, with there only being 2 months between the two.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Yeah consider me still to be on team "I don't know why Marvel quit doing fall movies after Thor Ragnarok."
I also don't care that we're getting a trailer so soon either though. I mean the knowledge of the movie itself was enough to undercut the ending of IW. Hell, knowledge of comic books IN GENERAL was enough to undercut the ending of IW. They're gonna come back and I don't think there's a lot of value in pretending. We know it, they know it, let's all be cool about it.
I dont see any reason they would float a Homecoming 2 trailer this early.
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
It's not like rash actions by Sony are some sort of unheard of concept. Sony just wants to cash in on the hype wave that the Avengers 4 trailer would produce.
Also, this isn't like a "I'd like this to happen rumor" It's something the Collider is reporting.
It just doesn't make sense and contradicts with the way Marvel usually does things.
Best read I can think of -if they DID- release a Far From Home trailer, it would be on Sony's behest and maybe to gen hype for SpiderVerse? But....why? That movie is getting rave reviews, and it's just a week away. With a Far From home trailer there is a vastly different release date and i just dont see why you'd muddle the waters with multiple release dates. I can see a new SpiderVerse trailer, or a "hey excited for more comic book movies? WE HAVE ONE JUST A WEEK AWAY! Its getting amazing reviews! Come see it!"
Again, this isn't Marvel, it's Sony.
Even though it's in the MCU and made in association with Marvel Studios, the Spider-Man films are still Sony projects, made with Sony money and promoted with Sony marketing.
I dont see any reason they would float a Homecoming 2 trailer this early.
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
It's not like rash actions by Sony are some sort of unheard of concept. Sony just wants to cash in on the hype wave that the Avengers 4 trailer would produce.
Also, this isn't like a "I'd like this to happen rumor" It's something the Collider is reporting.
It just doesn't make sense and contradicts with the way Marvel usually does things.
Best read I can think of -if they DID- release a Far From Home trailer, it would be on Sony's behest and maybe to gen hype for SpiderVerse? But....why? That movie is getting rave reviews, and it's just a week away. With a Far From home trailer there is a vastly different release date and i just dont see why you'd muddle the waters with multiple release dates. I can see a new SpiderVerse trailer, or a "hey excited for more comic book movies? WE HAVE ONE JUST A WEEK AWAY! Its getting amazing reviews! Come see it!"
Again, this isn't Marvel, it's Sony.
Even though it's in the MCU and made in association with Marvel Studios, the Spider-Man films are still Sony projects, made with Sony money and promoted with Sony marketing.
Yeah consider me still to be on team "I don't know why Marvel quit doing fall movies after Thor Ragnarok."
I imagine Disney gets some say on when movies get released. They have a massive cinematic empire to organize, after all.
I am aware of that. Which is why i point out that Sony already has a Spider Man movie coming out next week and why i dont see how it makes sense to release a trailer for a different movie of the "same character" with different release dates. Especially when Into the SpiderVerse is getting such great reviews.
Again, Sony is probably more messed up than WB/DC so anything is entirely possible.
Just a very odd tactic if so.
After some digging it looks like the rumor is dropping something at Brazil Comicon for Far From Home. And assumptions are it'll make its way "unofficial" to the internet shortly thereafter.
Stane was pretty good, but that was the first MCU and their script wasn't much more than a blank page with the setting, the characters in the scene, and a quick prayer that the actors could manage some witty conversation to fill the time. It would have been nice for him to survive, but they're just lucky they managed to make that good of a movie in a cave, with a box of scraps.
I think there will still be Stan Lee referances going forward. Nothing disrespectful, but small things like graffiti or a line of dialog or something along those lines.
Not that I need it, but it’s basically traditional at this point. Like the Whilhelm scream.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
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"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Giant summer blockbusters that come out every few years really aren't the best vehicle for character development. They've managed it with Loki, but that took three movies and a fair amount of screen time in those movies.
That's because they actually tried with Loki, everyone else was left to die. If more villains were allowed to live for more than one appearance they could be bought back as Big Bads again, or serve other villains. Thankfully this was averted in Spider-man: Homecoming
Besides, let's go through the movies:
Abomination: Incarcerated, everyone's tried to forget about him. Ross: Drunk
Whiplash: Suicided. Hammer: Arrested
Loki: 'Killed'
Red Skull: 'Killed'
Loki: Captured
Killian: Killed, 'Mandarin': Arrested
Christopher Eccleston: Killed. Loki: 'Killed'
Zola: Killed (assuming no backups, it'd take 2 minutes to write his survival). Pierce: Killed. Crossbones: Maimed. Bucky: Escaped
Ronan: Killed. Nebula: Escaped
Ultron: Killed
Yellowjacket: Killed
Crossbones: Killed. Zemo: Captured.
Kaecilius: Stuck in another dimension, not enjoying it. Dormammu: Stalemated into capitulation, likely very pissed off about it. Mordo: Putting on his villain shoes.
Ego: Killed. Sovereign Lady: alive, still angry
Vulture, Future Scorpion: Captured
Surtur: Killed doing what he loved, destroying Asgard. Hela: Killed doing what she hated, being on Asgard while Surtur was doing what he loved. Grandmaster: Overthrown, but still alive when the cameras stopped rolling.
Killmaster: Killed
Thanos Groupies: Killed. Thanos: Retired and feeling pretty good about himself, thanks for asking.
Ghost: Escaped and largely forgiven. Other Criminal Guy Whose Name I Can't Remember: Arrested
That's 40 villains, 18 of whom have died. More than any other particular fate, but it's not a slaughter.
Considering that 'why don't they just shoot them?' is a common complaint when villains are beaten but left alive, this feels reasonable. Most of the ones who've died were either too dangerous to allow to live, or too one-note to make bringing them back a particularly compelling prospect. I'm happy with them looking for new characters rather than risk making the heroes seem to incompetent to beat the ones they've got.
Loki's motive and goals also gave them that option. Murderbots that want to wipe out humanity or poorly lit aliens who want to kill everyone in the galaxy or reboot the universe into dark mode are hard to excuse leaving around for future movies. It's similar to the Batman's Joker problem.
Stane was pretty good, but that was the first MCU and their script wasn't much more than a blank page with the setting, the characters in the scene, and a quick prayer that the actors could manage some witty conversation to fill the time. It would have been nice for him to survive, but they're just lucky they managed to make that good of a movie in the first place.
Would ya keep Bettany's face? Have him try and mimic Spader's performance? :P
I do wonder how cold and logical he would be tho. Ultron's main beef was being a human style mind stuck in a robot body, he wasn't logical at all, sacrificing some of his massive advantages in favour of feeling comfortable.
Villains in the MCU
One of the more interesting elements to villains in the comics is that they can team up and form their own groups, which shouldn't be something only the heroes can do and be excellent with stories in. For example, the Masters of Evil:
If they are able to survive Zemo can create
Abomination is right there waiting to join this or another group.
The tv side actually does this well, since they don't kill off their villains with such consistency - this is why Purple Man survived until the last episode of JJ season 1 rather than when he meets her the first time in the present. Many, many villains have thrived on the tv side - and some of those ended up dying later on.
DD tv series spoilers
AoS has had quite a few excellent re-occuring villains, and Big Bad's. The one off generally don't make that much of an impression because they're simply there to die.
The tv side uses the format to expand on their character, give them depth they're not just one episode villains so the audience gets to connect to them, despite many dying later on in the series.
Since Marvel is regaining the Fantastic Four it'd be a waste of Dr. Doom if he gets permanently killed off after his first appearance another is Galactus who could be a phase event to be destroyed in his final appearance.
For me the MCU has two periods. There is the MCU before Winter Soldier/Guardians and then after. Even Loki is overshadowed by the later villains.
Spader as Ultron has possibly my favorite line reading of any MCU movie which is when the Avengers show up on Klaue's ship and he yells out "Oh for the love of god." The line sounds like Spader accidentally spilled his coffee on him in the recording booth and they just kept that. It makes me laugh every fucking time.
I would also like to see Eccelston come back in a non wasted role.
Apparently the Spider-Man: Far From Home trailer will debut on the 8th as well.
(while the word "trailer" is being used all over, I fully expect both of these to be Teasers, with room to be pleasantly surprised if it's more than just ominous music (keep knocking those variations on the Avengers theme out of the park, folks), a title, and a some vague imagery.
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Infinity War 2 Trailer: How will it end!? What will become of our heroes!? See the exciting conclusion!
Spider Man: Far From Home: Oh here's Spider Man, so I guess he's going to come back and be fine after all.
It amuses me getting both of these trailers on the same day.
I also don't think it's just us genre/comic aware types in these sorts of threads that didn't expect all of those losses to stick if you thought about it for a fraction of a second. Black Panther was one of the biggest movies of the year, there's no way that isn't getting a sequel. As many of us have said in the past year, I fully expect IW2 to have some losses that stick in a much more permanent fashion. And that meta knowledge didn't at all prevent me from being emotionally gutpunched in the theater. Seriously, Marvel, having the Infinity War logo fade away like that was just twisting the knife.
Much like Spider-Man, they could go with a new version (Miles is right there, Shuri too), but I'm not expecting it.
If the trailer leaned in that direction though, just as a misdirection, I'd laugh for days.
As I said before, 'lie to me, Marvel'.
Given the outrage over a black Stormtrooper, I can't even imagine the internet breaking apoplectic fury over a black Spider-Man, even if it was a bit of a ruse (in part or in full).
Between Spider-Man's PS4 game and Into the Spider-Verse, the character is getting a fair number of nods this year.
I wonder if you could make something that looked good where the left/right half of the screen was movie shots and the right/left half was chyron or something. Alternate back and forth throughout the trailer.
You know what? Set her up with Cap. Okay, it's like dating grandpa, but grandpa is ripped.
Fuckin' Hollywood always setting up young women with men 3 times their age.
Can you blame Thor's family? Jane Foster acted like she did not want to be there in the first place. :P
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The one time they gave her something to do, she seemed to be having fun, though. They should hand her more "magic" to play with
I, too, want Marvel to lie to me, but it needs to be a good lie.
If they teased bringing Miles into the world and then didn't, that would be a bad lie.
There is absolutely zero to be gained from it, and tons to lose.
I bet we dont see a Spider Man HC2 trailer until slightly before (or even during) Infinity War 2
It's not like other MCU films where Marvel Studios had full control over everything. They have Sony and Sony's shareholders to placate.
Still stands. Sony wouldn't risk confusing Spider-Man movies or taking promo away from their own movie Spider Man- Into the Spiderverse that comes out in a week.
There is nothing for anyone to gain by releasing a MCU Spider Man trailer this early.
Sony wont because their Spider -Man movie drops next week, Marvel wouldn't put THREE new movie trailers out at the same time, especially when HC2 doesn't drop for another like..8 months.
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So Skrull? other alien?
It's not like rash actions by Sony are some sort of unheard of concept. Sony just wants to cash in on the hype wave that the Avengers 4 trailer would produce.
Also, this isn't like a "I'd like this to happen rumor" It's something the Collider is reporting.
http://collider.com/spider-man-far-from-home-trailer-release-date/
I can see Sony wanting to release the HC2 trailer to cash in from the hype from the first movie in hopes that it'll cause some of those fans to seek out other Spider-man media, and oh look there's some Spider-man media right over there.
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It could happen. But i just don't see it.
It just doesn't make sense and contradicts with the way Marvel usually does things.
Best read I can think of -if they DID- release a Far From Home trailer, it would be on Sony's behest and maybe to gen hype for SpiderVerse? But....why? That movie is getting rave reviews, and it's just a week away. With a Far From home trailer there is a vastly different release date and i just dont see why you'd muddle the waters with multiple release dates. I can see a new SpiderVerse trailer, or a "hey excited for more comic book movies? WE HAVE ONE JUST A WEEK AWAY! Its getting amazing reviews! Come see it!"
Sure, we know he’s coming back. But there’s a difference between having meta-knowledge of the medium you search for details on, and publicly advertising before the fucking conclusion of an 11 year arc is even released in theaters.
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To be clear, I'd love to see a live action version of Miles.
I'm more saying that they could cut the trailer to make it seem like it's only him, when in reality they both show up. A Far From Home trailer that builds some hype while not flagrantly giving up part of Infinity War 2 half a year before it's out, no matter how much the audience is expecting it.
Far more realistically I'm expecting it to be strictly a teaser. Probably won't even show the character. Thwip thwip, webbing everywhere, someone gasps, cut to black with the release date. That kind of thing.
At the same time, the aggressive '3 movies in 5 months' lineup they have set for themselves does mean that they will likely need to give up *something* eventually.
I just can't imagine them not even having a proper trailer until after IW2 is out, with there only being 2 months between the two.
I also don't care that we're getting a trailer so soon either though. I mean the knowledge of the movie itself was enough to undercut the ending of IW. Hell, knowledge of comic books IN GENERAL was enough to undercut the ending of IW. They're gonna come back and I don't think there's a lot of value in pretending. We know it, they know it, let's all be cool about it.
Again, this isn't Marvel, it's Sony.
Even though it's in the MCU and made in association with Marvel Studios, the Spider-Man films are still Sony projects, made with Sony money and promoted with Sony marketing.
I imagine Disney gets some say on when movies get released. They have a massive cinematic empire to organize, after all.
I am aware of that. Which is why i point out that Sony already has a Spider Man movie coming out next week and why i dont see how it makes sense to release a trailer for a different movie of the "same character" with different release dates. Especially when Into the SpiderVerse is getting such great reviews.
Again, Sony is probably more messed up than WB/DC so anything is entirely possible.
Just a very odd tactic if so.
After some digging it looks like the rumor is dropping something at Brazil Comicon for Far From Home. And assumptions are it'll make its way "unofficial" to the internet shortly thereafter.
God that will always be my favorite line.
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Not that I need it, but it’s basically traditional at this point. Like the Whilhelm scream.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.