"Nuh uh, we're going over this cliff and it'll be awesome."
You joke, but May was on Today yesterday refusing to be drawn on the specific question of what happens if and when the vote in parliament on the withdrawal agreement fails
She has deliberately contrived to make doing anything else as procedurally difficult as possible
The question I want to see asked is whether, if her voter fails, she will do anything to prevent the UK simply falling out of the EU as the deadlines lapse
I’d love to know just how closely the BBC and number 10 cooperated on proposing and setting up Thier debate format. Especially when Labour clearly didn’t want it.
because internal Labour polling of the public at large still shows Remain losing to No Deal, I would guess
Not to mention the pinkest elephant in the room, which is what happens if we withdraw Article 50. The anti-EU sentiment has been thoroughly galvanised, as has Take Back Control etc., and ignoring the political level and just looking at the public level, "Project" Reality is simply not getting through to most Brexiters. The next GE will be a complete mess regardless of whether we go through with Leave, or stop the nonsense, because (perhaps not even) nothing short of actually leaving and feeling the financial and infrastructural hit will convince half the population that it's a bad idea.
Even if we do leave and take a massive financial hit, many Brexiters will still be okay with that because Sovereignty Is Worth Any Cost and Eventually We'll Be Better Off (maybe in a few decades).
Even if we do leave and take a massive financial hit, many Brexiters will still be okay with that because SovereigntyBooting Out Foreigners Is Worth Any Cost and Eventually We'll Be Better Off (maybe in a few decades).
Even if we do leave and take a massive financial hit, many Brexiters will still be okay with that because SovereigntyBooting Out Foreigners and Getting Blue Passports Is Worth Any Cost and Eventually We'll Be Better Off (maybe in a few decades).
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
And on what basis will the pharmacist make that decision? Will they just randomly tell people to take a lower dosage or something? Maybe decide that customer X is really old and likely to die anyway so save the drugs for someone who might get more benefit from them?
The fact I'm boggling over the specifics of this decision feels like criticizing the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
And on what basis will the pharmacist make that decision? Will they just randomly tell people to take a lower dosage or something? Maybe decide that customer X is really old and likely to die anyway so save the drugs for someone who might get more benefit from them?
The fact I'm boggling over the specifics of this decision feels like criticizing the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
That's what's mental - the pharmacist won't be making the decision, the government ministers will. They will issue an order that anyone taking medication X should now take medication Y (or a lower dose etc)
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
And on what basis will the pharmacist make that decision? Will they just randomly tell people to take a lower dosage or something? Maybe decide that customer X is really old and likely to die anyway so save the drugs for someone who might get more benefit from them?
The fact I'm boggling over the specifics of this decision feels like criticizing the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
That's what's mental - the pharmacist won't be making the decision, the government ministers will. They will issue an order that anyone taking medication X should now take medication Y (or a lower dose etc)
Well, we can't trust pharmacists to do it. They're experts, and we've had enough of those.
+8
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
But they're not going to ration the jam right?
+1
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
And on what basis will the pharmacist make that decision? Will they just randomly tell people to take a lower dosage or something? Maybe decide that customer X is really old and likely to die anyway so save the drugs for someone who might get more benefit from them?
The fact I'm boggling over the specifics of this decision feels like criticizing the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
That's what's mental - the pharmacist won't be making the decision, the government ministers will. They will issue an order that anyone taking medication X should now take medication Y (or a lower dose etc)
Well, we can't trust pharmacists to do it. They're experts, and we've had enough of those.
Shit, I legitimately wouldn't trust a pharmacist to modify prescriptions in this situation. They're trained and can spot bad drug interactions and when dosages might be a tad high or something, but they don't have near the information needed to decide who gets what from a limited supply.
And it should go without saying that I wouldn't trust anyone from this government to be able to pick their own nose, much less decide who gets lifesaving medicine.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
So let me get this straight: the politicians involved won't take responsibility for stopping Brexit, but they will take responsibility, personally and in writing, of literally killing people through drug rationing?
Look.. you should accept the glorious new future where you either can't get the groceries you want anymore, or you die because you aren't allowed the drugs that keep you alive. Because the only solution is to cancel Brexit.
If we cancel Brexit, all the groceries you've always enjoyed, and all the drugs will be available to keep you alive but at what cost?
So when does all of this kick off again? Ive been distracted by local matters so I'm out of the loop on the timelines here. When do y'all drop out of the EU?
0
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
So when does all of this kick off again? Ive been distracted by local matters so I'm out of the loop on the timelines here. When do y'all drop out of the EU?
No deal will not happen so none of these scenarios will come to pass. The spectre of it is being used to push through the deal they currently have.
No deal should not happen. But the brilliant displays of moral courage and intelligence lead me to believe that they could easily run out the clock where that is the only option left because they can't muster the votes for anything else.
So when does all of this kick off again? Ive been distracted by local matters so I'm out of the loop on the timelines here. When do y'all drop out of the EU?
brexit is eternal
In all seriousness, it will be
Leaving won't end the debate, an increasingly large number of people will want back in
So when does all of this kick off again? Ive been distracted by local matters so I'm out of the loop on the timelines here. When do y'all drop out of the EU?
Failing sudden twists, Brexit happens on the 29th of March 2019.
The PM has negotiated a withdrawal agreement for how to divvy things up (as a preliminary thing), so if Parliament approves it, we're pretty much set.
However, looks like there's a good chance of being rejected, which would mean failure to agree anything else means we no-deal, which is the "rationing medication" scenario described above.
So the main question is "what will parliament do if they reject the deal". It is a mystery.
So when does all of this kick off again? Ive been distracted by local matters so I'm out of the loop on the timelines here. When do y'all drop out of the EU?
brexit is eternal
I mean given the projections in here about no deal it's looking to be a singular event that possibly initializes the last fall of the British empire... I'm sure historians will talk about it forever.
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
Hmmm I wonder which demographic will start dying out in the event prescription drugs start being taken away? Surely not the elderly who voted for our glorious sovereignty? Heaven forfend.
I'm sorry Britain, I really don't get this. I know the US isn't much better but why is your government pushing to leave when they clearly don't have a clue? Why was article 50 invoked when you didn't have a plan? Instead of leave or stay, shouldn't the debate have been about a specific leave plan versus staying? You know, to prevent vauge promises that can't be kept?
Like even from over hear I can see that the leave side is not united. There are tons of different ideas on how to leave. The fact that Norway Plus is being argued at this stage seems crazy! Youregovernment decided to jump out of a plane and then get their parachute in working order!
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
Hmmm I wonder which demographic will start dying out in the event prescription drugs start being taken away? Surely not the elderly who voted for our glorious sovereignty? Heaven forfend.
If the government get to draw up the guidelines, it’ll just be all the poor people
Can’t get complaints about Universal Credit if all the people who claim it are dead
I'm sorry Britain, I really don't get this. I know the US isn't much better but why is your government pushing to leave when they clearly don't have a clue? Why was article 50 invoked when you didn't have a plan? Instead of leave or stay, shouldn't the debate have been about a specific leave plan versus staying? You know, to prevent vauge promises that can't be kept?
Like even from over hear I can see that the leave side is not united. There are tons of different ideas on how to leave. The fact that Norway Plus is being argued at this stage seems crazy! Youregovernment decided to jump out of a plane and then get their parachute in working order!
Am I missing something? Or is it really that bad?
You're not missing anything. It is really that bad.
I'm sorry Britain, I really don't get this. I know the US isn't much better but why is your government pushing to leave when they clearly don't have a clue? Why was article 50 invoked when you didn't have a plan? Instead of leave or stay, shouldn't the debate have been about a specific leave plan versus staying? You know, to prevent vauge promises that can't be kept?
Like even from over hear I can see that the leave side is not united. There are tons of different ideas on how to leave. The fact that Norway Plus is being argued at this stage seems crazy! Youregovernment decided to jump out of a plane and then get their parachute in working order!
Am I missing something? Or is it really that bad?
I'd argue that some of them are insisting that they don't even need a parachute because the straps really chafe.
They'll be fine, they read about people surviving falling without a parachute all the time.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+11
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I'm sorry Britain, I really don't get this. I know the US isn't much better but why is your government pushing to leave when they clearly don't have a clue? Why was article 50 invoked when you didn't have a plan? Instead of leave or stay, shouldn't the debate have been about a specific leave plan versus staying? You know, to prevent vauge promises that can't be kept?
Like even from over hear I can see that the leave side is not united. There are tons of different ideas on how to leave. The fact that Norway Plus is being argued at this stage seems crazy! Youregovernment decided to jump out of a plane and then get their parachute in working order!
Am I missing something? Or is it really that bad?
to quote beckett: "thats how it is on this bitch of an earth"
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
Hmmm I wonder which demographic will start dying out in the event prescription drugs start being taken away? Surely not the elderly who voted for our glorious sovereignty? Heaven forfend.
Is it not sweet and just to die for one's country?
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
Hmmm I wonder which demographic will start dying out in the event prescription drugs start being taken away? Surely not the elderly who voted for our glorious sovereignty? Heaven forfend.
Is it not sweet and just to die for one's country?
Gonna go out on a limb with the hottest of takes, but I'd hazard those words were not uttered with complete sincerity.
Okay that makes the fact that "We're going to pull out of Article 50, and stay in the EU until we hammer out a great deal not constrained by an arbitrary time line" isn't a talking point even more maddening.
But I guess the EU wouldn't like that. Nor would the actual leavers, probably because most of their leaders know that selling this deal to the public will be impossible. Better to set a deadline to make them swallow their bitter pill.
I'm sorry Britain, I really don't get this. I know the US isn't much better but why is your government pushing to leave when they clearly don't have a clue? Why was article 50 invoked when you didn't have a plan? Instead of leave or stay, shouldn't the debate have been about a specific leave plan versus staying? You know, to prevent vauge promises that can't be kept?
in summary,
There have been a large element MPs (of both parties) that has wanted to leave the EU for the last forty years but there was little public support for it so they had to keep quiet.
Then the financial crisis of 2008 happened, unfortunately, this made a lot of people worse off and it caused a lot of anger towards the "rich". Who they saw as the cause and against the government, who were forced to help the banking sector. There was also the Syrian crisis, which brought a lot of refugees to the EU. This alarmed some people in the UK as they thought that Britain was being flooded. Giving rise to nationalist and anti-immigrant feeling. None of these things were new in the UK but they were stronger now than they had been since the seventies.
This was the chance the anti EU groups was waiting for and they had little trouble harnessing this anger for their own ends. A political party was on the rise. UKIP were seen as the "respectable" party for anti-immigration and managed to gain a lot of support. This caused panic in the government, especially the tories. UKIP had not yet won an election but they were taking votes away from the conservatives and the tories were worried about losing power.
While UKIP was a seperate party, they had plently of allies within the conservatives. Fearing a split, the prime minister did a deal. Where he would call a referendum on the EU question if they won the election. In the first of many miscalculations, the prime minister assumed there would be ahung parliment and the referendum would not happen. Anyway, the referendum happened and the rest is history.
However it didn't really solve anything. The anti EU segment of the government almost immediately pushed to start the process of leaving, citing the will of the people. Fearing a split, the government involved article 50 before they were ready. Negotiations with the EU did not go well with sticking points on almost every policy. Forcing the government to accept a fairly bad deal for the UK and nowhere near what they were hoping for.
Now the government has backed itself into a wall and pretty much anything it does will make someone unhappy.
Posts
You joke, but May was on Today yesterday refusing to be drawn on the specific question of what happens if and when the vote in parliament on the withdrawal agreement fails
She has deliberately contrived to make doing anything else as procedurally difficult as possible
The question I want to see asked is whether, if her voter fails, she will do anything to prevent the UK simply falling out of the EU as the deadlines lapse
THANK YOU
Just.. damnit, Jeremy.
How is he still pushing the narrative that Labour could make a magical unicorn dream of a Brexit?
Can we swap him for Khan already?
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
It's a fucking cult.
fixed.
Fixeded.
This seems...sub optimal
It's simply bizarre that the government is even considering such options
Not Brexit?
Quite impossible. Much better for people to die for no reason.
And on what basis will the pharmacist make that decision? Will they just randomly tell people to take a lower dosage or something? Maybe decide that customer X is really old and likely to die anyway so save the drugs for someone who might get more benefit from them?
The fact I'm boggling over the specifics of this decision feels like criticizing the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
That's what's mental - the pharmacist won't be making the decision, the government ministers will. They will issue an order that anyone taking medication X should now take medication Y (or a lower dose etc)
Well, we can't trust pharmacists to do it. They're experts, and we've had enough of those.
Shit, I legitimately wouldn't trust a pharmacist to modify prescriptions in this situation. They're trained and can spot bad drug interactions and when dosages might be a tad high or something, but they don't have near the information needed to decide who gets what from a limited supply.
And it should go without saying that I wouldn't trust anyone from this government to be able to pick their own nose, much less decide who gets lifesaving medicine.
It will be held for export.
Worked in 1845, right?
[/Not Bitter]
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If we cancel Brexit, all the groceries you've always enjoyed, and all the drugs will be available to keep you alive but at what cost?
What. Cost??
brexit is eternal
No deal should not happen. But the brilliant displays of moral courage and intelligence lead me to believe that they could easily run out the clock where that is the only option left because they can't muster the votes for anything else.
In all seriousness, it will be
Leaving won't end the debate, an increasingly large number of people will want back in
Failing sudden twists, Brexit happens on the 29th of March 2019.
The PM has negotiated a withdrawal agreement for how to divvy things up (as a preliminary thing), so if Parliament approves it, we're pretty much set.
However, looks like there's a good chance of being rejected, which would mean failure to agree anything else means we no-deal, which is the "rationing medication" scenario described above.
So the main question is "what will parliament do if they reject the deal". It is a mystery.
I mean given the projections in here about no deal it's looking to be a singular event that possibly initializes the last fall of the British empire... I'm sure historians will talk about it forever.
Hmmm I wonder which demographic will start dying out in the event prescription drugs start being taken away? Surely not the elderly who voted for our glorious sovereignty? Heaven forfend.
Like even from over hear I can see that the leave side is not united. There are tons of different ideas on how to leave. The fact that Norway Plus is being argued at this stage seems crazy! Youregovernment decided to jump out of a plane and then get their parachute in working order!
Am I missing something? Or is it really that bad?
If the government get to draw up the guidelines, it’ll just be all the poor people
Can’t get complaints about Universal Credit if all the people who claim it are dead
You're not missing anything. It is really that bad.
Steam | XBL
I'd argue that some of them are insisting that they don't even need a parachute because the straps really chafe.
They'll be fine, they read about people surviving falling without a parachute all the time.
to quote beckett: "thats how it is on this bitch of an earth"
Is it not sweet and just to die for one's country?
Gonna go out on a limb with the hottest of takes, but I'd hazard those words were not uttered with complete sincerity.
But I guess the EU wouldn't like that. Nor would the actual leavers, probably because most of their leaders know that selling this deal to the public will be impossible. Better to set a deadline to make them swallow their bitter pill.
in summary,
There have been a large element MPs (of both parties) that has wanted to leave the EU for the last forty years but there was little public support for it so they had to keep quiet.
Then the financial crisis of 2008 happened, unfortunately, this made a lot of people worse off and it caused a lot of anger towards the "rich". Who they saw as the cause and against the government, who were forced to help the banking sector. There was also the Syrian crisis, which brought a lot of refugees to the EU. This alarmed some people in the UK as they thought that Britain was being flooded. Giving rise to nationalist and anti-immigrant feeling. None of these things were new in the UK but they were stronger now than they had been since the seventies.
This was the chance the anti EU groups was waiting for and they had little trouble harnessing this anger for their own ends. A political party was on the rise. UKIP were seen as the "respectable" party for anti-immigration and managed to gain a lot of support. This caused panic in the government, especially the tories. UKIP had not yet won an election but they were taking votes away from the conservatives and the tories were worried about losing power.
While UKIP was a seperate party, they had plently of allies within the conservatives. Fearing a split, the prime minister did a deal. Where he would call a referendum on the EU question if they won the election. In the first of many miscalculations, the prime minister assumed there would be ahung parliment and the referendum would not happen. Anyway, the referendum happened and the rest is history.
However it didn't really solve anything. The anti EU segment of the government almost immediately pushed to start the process of leaving, citing the will of the people. Fearing a split, the government involved article 50 before they were ready. Negotiations with the EU did not go well with sticking points on almost every policy. Forcing the government to accept a fairly bad deal for the UK and nowhere near what they were hoping for.
Now the government has backed itself into a wall and pretty much anything it does will make someone unhappy.