I would not have expected it to quickly catapult into my top 5 favorite episodes of this entire show, but it shot right up there.
Super excited to see where the next episodes take this.
Series spectulation
So it's super clear the bad place has rigged the points, but is it likely it's just by putting The Good value for entry into The Good Place too high?
Episode ending spoilers
On reflection, I'm pleasantly surprised they kept in the "forking" language from The fake Good Place into The real Good Place (inside us all along.) I'd have given even odds that that was just something Michael threw in to fork with Eleanor. As is, I think the writers put it in because it was a instant red-flag to the audience that this was for real. And I'm sure the callback to/mirror of the season 1 bombshell was too good of a line to pass up.
I feel like any prediction is probably folly but my personal theory is
that nobody is rigging the points. The system has just evolved over time such that nobody is good enough, even Doug Forcett. They spent a lot of time this episode telling us why it was impossible for anyone to hack the accounting system which makes it feel like one of the demons saying, "Yeaaaah, but we did anyway" would feel really cheap. I think the system built up around the point system has just resulted in increasingly few people getting into the Good Place simply thanks to the system itself.
An overall message along the lines of 'once you set up a system that arbitrarily decides that every action can be quantitatively described as good or bad that system will always, over time, lead to everyone and everything being bad' seems like the sort of message the show would be trying to give.
Unrelated to predictions, I thought Janet's little speech to Michael near the end of the episode was great and a really positive turn for the story of the season (not that the story was bad or anything; I just like the direction it implies).
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
future speculation:
I don't think so, unless this somehow happened in conjunction with the bad place. This episode all but confirmed that the bad place higher ups (or at least Shawn and probably others?) were in on whatever has been happening.
Also, anyone want to shift through who got into the good place 521 years ago? Deaths in 1497
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
I think the thing to look for is what happened 571 years ago.
The Good Place is pretty horrifying when you step back and look at it. That means no matter how good, no matter if young, or old, even babies all went to the Bad Place.
I think the thing to look for is what happened 571 years ago.
The Good Place is pretty horrifying when you step back and look at it. That means no matter how good, no matter if young, or old, even babies all went to the Bad Place.
The Accountant's reaction to Doug's score implies that you need a very large positive point total to get into the Good Place. You can't simply not be bad, you have to be actively and dramatically good. So an infant who dies at birth, having accumulated zero points, positive or negative (assuming you don't just start off with negative score for one original sin reason or another) would indeed go to the Bad Place.
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
future speculation:
I don't think so, unless this somehow happened in conjunction with the bad place. This episode all but confirmed that the bad place higher ups (or at least Shawn and probably others?) were in on whatever has been happening.
Also, anyone want to shift through who got into the good place 521 years ago? Deaths in 1497
So, if you go to the wikipedia entry
for 1497, someone's already got "the first resident arrives in the Good Place" as an event with an unknown date
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
future speculation:
I don't think so, unless this somehow happened in conjunction with the bad place. This episode all but confirmed that the bad place higher ups (or at least Shawn and probably others?) were in on whatever has been happening.
Also, anyone want to shift through who got into the good place 521 years ago? Deaths in 1497
I sincerely doubt it will be an actual historical figure that went to the good place 521 years ago
remember, this is the show that gave us Jeremy Bearimy, Mindy St Clair, and Doug Forcett
Holy forking shirtballs, D'Arcy is forking amazing. This episode needs to get her all of the awards. I just could not stop laughing and actually welcomed the commercial breaks for a chance to breathe.
I wont get to the podcast until Sunday, but D'Arcy is the guest and I cant wait to listen to it.
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
I feel like it would be kind of
South Parkish to make the Good Place people morally compromised. Presenting the universe as run by sadistic monsters on one side and snobs on the other feels like reflexive both sidesism.
And ultimately this show doesn't seem to be afraid of earnest.
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
I feel like it would be kind of
South Parkish to make the Good Place people morally compromised. Presenting the universe as run by sadistic monsters on one side and snobs on the other feels like reflexive both sidesism.
And ultimately this show doesn't seem to be afraid of earnest.
It could be something like Mindy where a huge jackass does one thing that gets him the millions of points he needs to get in, then campaigns for Good Placexit to stop the trash from getting in.
The points system makes it clear that even someone who dedicates their life to being good can't get in, so there's no guarantee that the ones who did get in are actually nice.
The Good Place Points required is exponential. So for every person that gets in the bar gets raised for everyone else, and it’s now so high it’s impossible to earn enough points in a lifetime.
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
I feel like it would be kind of
South Parkish to make the Good Place people morally compromised. Presenting the universe as run by sadistic monsters on one side and snobs on the other feels like reflexive both sidesism.
And ultimately this show doesn't seem to be afraid of earnest.
It could be something like Mindy where a huge jackass does one thing that gets him the millions of points he needs to get in, then campaigns for Good Placexit to stop the trash from getting in.
The points system makes it clear that even someone who dedicates their life to being good can't get in, so there's no guarantee that the ones who did get in are actually nice.
Its clear to me now
The medium place was yhe bad place covering their tracks. They set the total unattainably high but they never expected a Mindy situation . So they just agreed
to the medium place to stop any further digging
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
the good place is rigging the scores to keep out the plebs
future speculation:
I don't think so, unless this somehow happened in conjunction with the bad place. This episode all but confirmed that the bad place higher ups (or at least Shawn and probably others?) were in on whatever has been happening.
Also, anyone want to shift through who got into the good place 521 years ago? Deaths in 1497
I sincerely doubt it will be an actual historical figure that went to the good place 521 years ago
remember, this is the show that gave us Jeremy Bearimy, Mindy St Clair, and Doug Forcett
Oh, I agree. I was trying to make a funny. Anyway, my most assuredly incorrect prediction would be something like:
521 years ago, some demon(s) figured out a way to rig the points/set the bar so high that no one could get in. Furthermore, as part of their plan, they locked away the good place, or just convinced the angels (ok, maybe thats a little bit racist) that they could guard the pearly gates.
OR! (I just thought of this as I was typing the first part out)
There was an actual "Eleanor"-esque mistake in the actual good place, that had the "Michael"-analog in the (actual) Good Place bring the point system into question from the Good Place end, this doubt leads to the demons taking over the point system which leads to what we have now where everyone is sent to the bad place.
In summary, holy cow is Stephen Merchant huge and D'Arcy Carden should get all the awards for this episode.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
6'7" is huge. I'm 6'2" and I'm the tallest person in a crowded room right now. It is extremely rare for me to see someone 5 inches taller outside of attending a professional basketball game or wrestling event.
I mean, sure he is tall, but not insanely so. Imdb has it listed as his defining trait, but over here in Holland he could buy clothing in regular stores.
Average male height in the Netherlands is 5’11”. 6’7” is really, really tall. An interior doorframe is 6’8”. He’s tall. And Ted Danson is 6’2” so his towering isn’t because American actors are short. In fact, Kristen Bell is the only short one in the group. Everyone else is 5’10” or more. Stephen Merchant is a tall, tall dude.
So I’m leaning towards something like Norgoth’s idea of
an exponential or rising point system mostly because wouldn’t someone in the accounting office have noticed if the point threshold were suddenly raised? When the accountant looked at Forcet’s points he seemed to compare it to a total, so he must be aware of the total needed. If it had suddenly raised rather than incrementally or comparatively, surely that would have been flagged? Although he wasn’t surprised by noone getting in the Good Place for over 500 years, so maybe he’s extra oblivious.
Average male height in the Netherlands is 5’11”. 6’7” is really, really tall. An interior doorframe is 6’8”. He’s tall. And Ted Danson is 6’2” so his towering isn’t because American actors are short. In fact, Kristen Bell is the only short one in the group. Everyone else is 5’10” or more. Stephen Merchant is a tall, tall dude.
So I’m leaning towards something like Norgoth’s idea of
an exponential or rising point system mostly because wouldn’t someone in the accounting office have noticed if the point threshold were suddenly raised? When the accountant looked at Forcet’s points he seemed to compare it to a total, so he must be aware of the total needed. If it had suddenly raised rather than incrementally or comparatively, surely that would have been flagged? Although he wasn’t surprised by noone getting in the Good Place for over 500 years, so maybe he’s extra oblivious.
I mean, just give the guy a corner piece of cake, and it seems like he could over look a lot.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
Average male height in the Netherlands is 5’11”. 6’7” is really, really tall. An interior doorframe is 6’8”. He’s tall. And Ted Danson is 6’2” so his towering isn’t because American actors are short. In fact, Kristen Bell is the only short one in the group. Everyone else is 5’10” or more. Stephen Merchant is a tall, tall dude.
So I’m leaning towards something like Norgoth’s idea of
an exponential or rising point system mostly because wouldn’t someone in the accounting office have noticed if the point threshold were suddenly raised? When the accountant looked at Forcet’s points he seemed to compare it to a total, so he must be aware of the total needed. If it had suddenly raised rather than incrementally or comparatively, surely that would have been flagged? Although he wasn’t surprised by noone getting in the Good Place for over 500 years, so maybe he’s extra oblivious.
I think it will be one of 2 options.
The first is that each good act lowers the value of future good acts and good acts are now so diluted that no one can hit the right amount to get into the good place.
The second option is each new good place resident sets a new baseline, and its hit a point where no one can get enough points to hit the new required ammount.
The Good Place Points required is exponential. So for every person that gets in the bar gets raised for everyone else, and it’s now so high it’s impossible to earn enough points in a lifetime.
Average male height in the Netherlands is 5’11”. 6’7” is really, really tall. An interior doorframe is 6’8”. He’s tall. And Ted Danson is 6’2” so his towering isn’t because American actors are short. In fact, Kristen Bell is the only short one in the group. Everyone else is 5’10” or more. Stephen Merchant is a tall, tall dude.
So I’m leaning towards something like Norgoth’s idea of
an exponential or rising point system mostly because wouldn’t someone in the accounting office have noticed if the point threshold were suddenly raised? When the accountant looked at Forcet’s points he seemed to compare it to a total, so he must be aware of the total needed. If it had suddenly raised rather than incrementally or comparatively, surely that would have been flagged? Although he wasn’t surprised by noone getting in the Good Place for over 500 years, so maybe he’s extra oblivious.
I think it will be one of 2 options.
The first is that each good act lowers the value of future good acts and good acts are now so diluted that no one can hit the right amount to get into the good place.
The second option is each new good place resident sets a new baseline, and its hit a point where no one can get enough points to hit the new required ammount.
I think it will be the first option, myself
Personally, I blame
Matty. After all these millennia, he's assigning huge negative point values to Weird Sex Stuff.
the list of negative point values has increased over time a lot more than the list of positive point values. Because while being nice doesn't really change you can always find new ways to be a dick to somebody. Remember, every time you make something idiot-proof, somebody makes a better idiot.
Getting into the good place, say 1000 years ago, was probably relatively easy. Getting into it now, is probably akin to threading a needle while underwater basketweaving in the core of the sun.
the list of negative point values has increased over time a lot more than the list of positive point values. Because while being nice doesn't really change you can always find new ways to be a dick to somebody. Remember, every time you make something idiot-proof, somebody makes a better idiot.
Getting into the good place, say 1000 years ago, was probably relatively easy. Getting into it now, is probably a kin to threading a needle while underwater basket weaving in the core of the sun.
Also,
as was alluded to with the meeting with Doug Forcett, technology probably dicked us too. Doug goes out of his way to have a smaller carbon footprint. If that's a thing, there's so many things that would normally be considered not being a positive or negative, that end up getting you negatives.
Driving a car = negative points. Turning on an aircon = negative points. Buying clothing/technology without checking that it's using child/slave labor = negative points. Using technology to find out if the clothing/technology you are buying was made with child/slave labor = negative points.
- Stephen Merchant is objectively tall as fork, what is wrong with y'all.
- I think that whatever the issue is with the points system, it's going to be either vaguely defined or mathematically simple. I doubt they would work exponential functions into this show.
- 500 years to an immortal being probably doesn't seem that long. It may be indistinguishable from, say, 5 minutes. Imagine trying to conceptualize the difference between a millisecond and a nanosecond.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
- Stephen Merchant is objectively tall as fork, what is wrong with y'all.
- I think that whatever the issue is with the points system, it's going to be either vaguely defined or mathematically simple. I doubt they would work exponential functions into this show.
- 500 years to an immortal being probably doesn't seem that long. It may be indistinguishable from, say, 5 minutes. Imagine trying to conceptualize the difference between a millisecond and a nanosecond.
Just wanted to re-emphasize this point. After all, the cake is for Marisol, who's celebrating her 39,000,000th birthday. Not immortal, but enough that time probably has little meaning to them.
- Stephen Merchant is objectively tall as fork, what is wrong with y'all.
- I think that whatever the issue is with the points system, it's going to be either vaguely defined or mathematically simple. I doubt they would work exponential functions into this show.
- 500 years to an immortal being probably doesn't seem that long. It may be indistinguishable from, say, 5 minutes. Imagine trying to conceptualize the difference between a millisecond and a nanosecond.
Just wanted to re-emphasize this point. After all, the cake is for Marisol, who's celebrating her 39,000,000th birthday. Not immortal, but enough that time probably has little meaning to them.
They do have a concept of 'human' time though.
Dude straight up recognizes that Doug Fourcett is screwed because his life isn't long enough to get the points needed.
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Captain Ultralow resolution pictures of birdsRegistered Userregular
just realized that the podcast has been lying to us.
the intro on some of them have Michael say that the top podcast in the good place is Mozart and Jimi Hendrix discussing music.
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I would not have expected it to quickly catapult into my top 5 favorite episodes of this entire show, but it shot right up there.
Super excited to see where the next episodes take this.
Series spectulation
Episode ending spoilers
An overall message along the lines of 'once you set up a system that arbitrarily decides that every action can be quantitatively described as good or bad that system will always, over time, lead to everyone and everything being bad' seems like the sort of message the show would be trying to give.
Unrelated to predictions, I thought Janet's little speech to Michael near the end of the episode was great and a really positive turn for the story of the season (not that the story was bad or anything; I just like the direction it implies).
future speculation:
Also, anyone want to shift through who got into the good place 521 years ago? Deaths in 1497
The Good Place is pretty horrifying when you step back and look at it. That means no matter how good, no matter if young, or old, even babies all went to the Bad Place.
So, if you go to the wikipedia entry
I sincerely doubt it will be an actual historical figure that went to the good place 521 years ago
remember, this is the show that gave us Jeremy Bearimy, Mindy St Clair, and Doug Forcett
I'm putting my two cents on Tom Hanks.
I wont get to the podcast until Sunday, but D'Arcy is the guest and I cant wait to listen to it.
I feel like it would be kind of
And ultimately this show doesn't seem to be afraid of earnest.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
what was it that he yelled as he dissolved? "Oh, no, I don't exist anymore!"
edit: it was "I'm not, again!"
Man if they could get Woody Harrelson...
The points system makes it clear that even someone who dedicates their life to being good can't get in, so there's no guarantee that the ones who did get in are actually nice.
Its clear to me now
to the medium place to stop any further digging
Oh, I agree. I was trying to make a funny. Anyway, my most assuredly incorrect prediction would be something like:
OR! (I just thought of this as I was typing the first part out)
There was an actual "Eleanor"-esque mistake in the actual good place, that had the "Michael"-analog in the (actual) Good Place bring the point system into question from the Good Place end, this doubt leads to the demons taking over the point system which leads to what we have now where everyone is sent to the bad place.
In summary, holy cow is Stephen Merchant huge and D'Arcy Carden should get all the awards for this episode.
Im sorry
"only"? Just putting that value into a couple height percentile calculators puts him about in top 0.05% of the population!
So I’m leaning towards something like Norgoth’s idea of
wish list
Steam wishlist
Etsy wishlist
I mean, just give the guy a corner piece of cake, and it seems like he could over look a lot.
I think it will be one of 2 options.
The second option is each new good place resident sets a new baseline, and its hit a point where no one can get enough points to hit the new required ammount.
I think it will be the first option, myself
Personally, I blame
Getting into the good place, say 1000 years ago, was probably relatively easy. Getting into it now, is probably akin to threading a needle while underwater basketweaving in the core of the sun.
Also,
Driving a car = negative points. Turning on an aircon = negative points. Buying clothing/technology without checking that it's using child/slave labor = negative points. Using technology to find out if the clothing/technology you are buying was made with child/slave labor = negative points.
- Stephen Merchant is objectively tall as fork, what is wrong with y'all.
- I think that whatever the issue is with the points system, it's going to be either vaguely defined or mathematically simple. I doubt they would work exponential functions into this show.
- 500 years to an immortal being probably doesn't seem that long. It may be indistinguishable from, say, 5 minutes. Imagine trying to conceptualize the difference between a millisecond and a nanosecond.
Just wanted to re-emphasize this point. After all, the cake is for Marisol, who's celebrating her 39,000,000th birthday. Not immortal, but enough that time probably has little meaning to them.
lil Wheatley