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[Stellaris] - Paradox does space strategy - Le Guin, Megacorps - DECEMBER 6th

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Posts

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Having surveyed the Stellaris forums, the two currently playable options that aren't working very well appear to be Machine Empires (actively being looked at because their starts are real weird in terms of initial job distribution and resource use, according to Wiz) and Criminal Megacorps, because the AI loses its mind and spams police all over if you're even near them as one.

    I was able to control the AI criminals reasonably well - in spite of a Governor with a trait that increased crime, even! - with only one non-upgraded police building per colony they were trying to Branch Office. Might be a good idea to let that one wait if it was something you wanted to try.

    I've noticed a couple oddities with the Authoritarian faction's approval rating for keeping your people properly Stratified which seem to relate to robots and / or gene-modding, myself, but so far everything pretty much works.

    There's also a bug with Observation Posts not producing research til you save and reload the game, it seems?

    I'm playing as a Federation-type bunch of xenophile do-gooders, and my best buddy is the neighboring criminal empire. The dialogue is hilarious, "We have decided to trust you. More importantly, we have decided to be trustworthy. This is surprising to us, as well."

    I mean. They would say that, wouldn't they?

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I got one neighbor that was a Harmonious Collective, asked for a pact before I could.

    Other neighbors is less friendly, but I'm also next to the Caravaneers home system, so I've been able to buy a destroyer and cruiser from the traveling fleets that show up nearly all the tine, as well as get the local marauders to raid. Once they're done causing chaos, that will be the time to make them see things my way...

    Foefaller on
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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Looks like you can see Wormhole pathing once you discover the tech but before you've technically explored them now, which will probably get corrected shortly.

    I had a science ship auto-explore its way through one with having explored it first.

    "Where does this wormhole lead? Do we even know if it's stable? Should we send a probe in first?"

    "Fuck it, full speed ahead!"

    Today is a good day to die SCIENCE!

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  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dev-team-2-2-1-hotfix-checksum-bbf4-and-stellaris_test-beta-branch-released.1134278/

    Hotfix for the game-literally-won't-launch bug and only that. Should all make sure we're running it later.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    So the new planet interface is daunting, but I think I have figured it out?

    Districts provide basic resources and jobs/housing.

    Buildings provide more complex resources and other modifiers.

    Buildings are just sort of nebulous to the whole planet, and not built in any specific district? That's the thing my gamer brain keeps tying to think. That Buildings live inside Districts. But that seems not to be the case.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    So the new planet interface is daunting, but I think I have figured it out?

    Districts provide basic resources and jobs/housing.

    Buildings provide more complex resources and other modifiers.

    Buildings are just sort of nebulous to the whole planet, and not built in any specific district? That's the thing my gamer brain keeps tying to think. That Buildings live inside Districts. But that seems not to be the case.

    Buildings are tied to pop level, not districts, so they're definitely detached from what districts you build.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    So the new planet interface is daunting, but I think I have figured it out?

    Districts provide basic resources and jobs/housing.

    Buildings provide more complex resources and other modifiers.

    Buildings are just sort of nebulous to the whole planet, and not built in any specific district? That's the thing my gamer brain keeps tying to think. That Buildings live inside Districts. But that seems not to be the case.

    Buildings are tied to pop level, not districts, so they're definitely detached from what districts you build.

    Okay, good, I think I have it then.

    But damned if I didn't keep trying to figure out what building was in what district for the longest time.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Which discord will we be using for the game tonight?

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    i'll see if i can link @Lord_Asmodeus 's discord

    i just walked in the door to the house, im getting cleaned up of all the diesel and then I'll get the lobby started.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    i'll see if i can link @Lord_Asmodeus 's discord

    i just walked in the door to the house, im getting cleaned up of all the diesel and then I'll get the lobby started.

    I thought this wasn't happening for another hour?

    EDIT: Discord link doesn't work for me, FYI.

    Undead Scottsman on
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    https://discord.gg/RxnPM5 - that one should, they expire.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    i'll see if i can link @Lord_Asmodeus 's discord

    i just walked in the door to the house, im getting cleaned up of all the diesel and then I'll get the lobby started.

    I thought this wasn't happening for another hour?

    EDIT: Discord link doesn't work for me, FYI.

    Yes I don't think it starts for another hour but I know I am making sure I have discord updated and stuff.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    yea, its not starting until 4pm. I just like getting stuff set up before the party

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  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    Hey dudes/dudettes, I'm way tired from a long-ass day so won't be joining tonight. Make sure to purge/enslave/hug the xenos for me!

  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I like the trade route system, but I don't really like that my stations collect 'trade value' and shuttle it back to the capital where it turns into energy credits. If it were something more like bringing the goods your mining stations are collecting back, that would make more sense to me.

    I do really like the patrolling system to prevent piracy. My ships do more than sit at home for a hundred years.

  • Gennenalyse RuebenGennenalyse Rueben The Prettiest Boy is Ridiculously Pretty Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    So the new planet interface is daunting, but I think I have figured it out?

    Districts provide basic resources and jobs/housing.

    Buildings provide more complex resources and other modifiers.

    Buildings are just sort of nebulous to the whole planet, and not built in any specific district? That's the thing my gamer brain keeps tying to think. That Buildings live inside Districts. But that seems not to be the case.

    Buildings are tied to pop level, not districts, so they're definitely detached from what districts you build.

    Okay, good, I think I have it then.

    But damned if I didn't keep trying to figure out what building was in what district for the longest time.

    I find the terminology's a bit wonky given we're building stuff on a planetary scale. Like, if Earth has room for only say 18 districts? Then districts must be absolutely massive, more than most countries! So a City District is actually a super New York City (or perhaps expanding smaller cities into NYC sized cities), a Farming District is basically what the midwestern US is today, a mining district...I don't think there's a real world equivalent?

    Meanwhile, since Buildings are tied to population they are probably (mostly) representative of something more distributed. It's not likely that one massive police enforcer station could cover the entire planet effectively, so it's probably something closer to establishing or expanding the pre-existing law enforcement on a planetary scale.

    Or maybe I've put way too much thought into how this stuff works. Probably that one!

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    I feel like buildings should more accurately be called 'Industries' or something like that.

    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    The administration cap puts a harsh stop to my usual strategy of early rapid expansion.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    The administration cap puts a harsh stop to my usual strategy of early rapid expansion.

    You are expected to go over the cap. It's just the point where the size penalties start, as opposed to the old way where they began the moment you did any expansion whatsoever.

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  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Argh. I had basically no contact with any other empires for years, because I started a bit farther out, and when I finally find a cluster of empires, there's a goddamn criminal monopoly that's put branch offices on every single planet because they had a massive diplomatic head start.

    That's really irritating.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Argh. I had basically no contact with any other empires for years, because I started a bit farther out, and when I finally find a cluster of empires, there's a goddamn criminal monopoly that's put branch offices on every single planet because they had a massive diplomatic head start.

    That's really irritating.

    It's pretty easy to get those under control with just one building slot for police, from experience. You can even leave them extant, because the Criminal jobs, uh, prevent unemployment.

    Multiplayer game: success. We definitely hugboxed it a bit, but we're all off to some kind of start even if I am literally surrounded by hostile empires, other megacorps, and @Frozenzen 's hive mind, which is... not an ideal start as a megachurch.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    fun game tonight.

    frozenzen was a hive mind, I was a machine mind, and we thought it was cool to get a defense pact.
    2.2 is really fun, there are way more widgets to juggle now, and that's a bit of a good thing. the only problem was that when we went to war, my energy spiraled out of control and I had no idea how to get it back on track.

    The devs renamed a LOT of stuff and added others. I need a wiki just to go through what has been named and how it works with other things. I was trying desperately to find pop rocks, vespene gas, and teldari crystals when there were technologies that let me convert minerals into those resources. :x
    You CANNOT just go clicking things and spamming buildings (at least without knowing what they do...) planet build decisions MATTER now

    also... because there is no optimum worker/tile placement... the AI got a buff in that regard. Just need to choose which of 4 districts they want instead of a correct choice out of like a factor 25ish number

    NotoriusBEN on
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  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Yeah @Auralynx your start was almost as bad as it was possible excepting a hostile player instead of one that basically just built food and energy structures for the first few decades.

    And the new resource system is really messing me up. After getting a basically perfect start surrounded by nonagressive players and being able to just grow my population I have no idea what to do. Finding the balance of +basic resources and converters to useful resources is pretty hard. I guess it will come with time. Converting an economic powerhouse into a strong military takes a lot of work now.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I spent most of that game going going into the red on resource A and then by th etime that evened out I was in the red on resource B. Good times.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    My cat empire did pretty good. There was one moment during my first war where my economy just collapsed but once the war ended and the primitives I had conquered calmed down it evened out.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    Yeah Auralynx your start was almost as bad as it was possible excepting a hostile player instead of one that basically just built food and energy structures for the first few decades.

    And the new resource system is really messing me up. After getting a basically perfect start surrounded by nonagressive players and being able to just grow my population I have no idea what to do. Finding the balance of +basic resources and converters to useful resources is pretty hard. I guess it will come with time. Converting an economic powerhouse into a strong military takes a lot of work now.

    I'm starting to think that basically Paradox has us working against ourselves with most of the buildings and extractors siphoning potential workers from basic resource production, but we'll see. I've definitely got the hang of building a fairly-stable economy at this point, though I haven't been able to figure out how to do it before the mid-game or militarize.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    Yea, you gotta be careful because a building will establish itself, but it wont go into effect until next month. If you have multiple constructions popping off, it can very easily unbalance your economy, as well as what Aura said about working against yourself. Case and point If you put down a bunch of alloy forges, your workers will go there and *not* stay at the mineral mines... that are needed for making the alloys in the first place. As well as energy generation taking a hit because techs might go to the forge and that 4energy upkeep is actually, 6 or 7 because a tech decided to switch jobs. @_@

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  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Yea, you gotta be careful because a building will establish itself, but it wont go into effect until next month. If you have multiple constructions popping off, it can very easily unbalance your economy, as well as what Aura said about working against yourself. Case and point If you put down a bunch of alloy forges, your workers will go there and *not* stay at the mineral mines... that are needed for making the alloys in the first place. As well as energy generation taking a hit because techs might go to the forge and that 4energy upkeep is actually, 6 or 7 because a tech decided to switch jobs. @_@

    Also, a thing I've been noticing in single-player especially is that jobs tend to outstrip pop growth by a lot, and pops prefer to come into existence doing the middle-tier ones and not the basic ones, which is definitely responsible for some of the weird swings in food, in particular, that I've been seeing.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I haven't noticed but does the game automatically place pops in jobs they're suited for if you have more than one species, like thrifty pops as technicians?

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I haven't noticed but does the game automatically place pops in jobs they're suited for if you have more than one species, like thrifty pops as technicians?

    It's supposed to try, yeah, but it seems to prioritize the more-prestigious ones over the basic ones to a certain extent all else being equal / all good jobs being full.

    Just got a weird, possibly-related thing where it bumped every single member of an immigrant species with nothing that should job bias it to anything but Soldier into the middle tier once I finished The Flesh Is Weak. Fortunately I could just move them all onto Fen Habbanis, but it was weird for a minute.

    Things you're assimilating become unemployed, as well, it looks like, which was a surprise.

    E: A dedicated farming world seems pretty doable just by spamming out the districts and agriculture-related buildings and maybe a few other things, since you could keep the available jobs pretty close to the number of available workers, but especially when you hit the 10 jobs / building upgrades you just have more opportunities than space-things to take them. I'd be interested to see what fast-growing Fanatic Xenophobes can do.

    E2: The whole post-secondary "convert consumer goods to unity and X" economy is also a little weird thus far, but in a good way.

    Auralynx on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Yea, you gotta be careful because a building will establish itself, but it wont go into effect until next month. If you have multiple constructions popping off, it can very easily unbalance your economy, as well as what Aura said about working against yourself. Case and point If you put down a bunch of alloy forges, your workers will go there and *not* stay at the mineral mines... that are needed for making the alloys in the first place. As well as energy generation taking a hit because techs might go to the forge and that 4energy upkeep is actually, 6 or 7 because a tech decided to switch jobs. @_@

    Also, a thing I've been noticing in single-player especially is that jobs tend to outstrip pop growth by a lot, and pops prefer to come into existence doing the middle-tier ones and not the basic ones, which is definitely responsible for some of the weird swings in food, in particular, that I've been seeing.

    I think basically instead of building just because you have slots or resources, you should wait until you have unemployed pops to create new jobs.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Auralynx wrote: »
    I haven't noticed but does the game automatically place pops in jobs they're suited for if you have more than one species, like thrifty pops as technicians?

    It's supposed to try, yeah, but it seems to prioritize the more-prestigious ones over the basic ones to a certain extent all else being equal / all good jobs being full.

    Luckily all the weights are opened for modding, so for all of you guys, here is a brief overview of how jobs are distributed;

    Assuming there are no traits, noone is enslaved, and everyone begins unemployed, Job filling priority for normal empires is such:

    Rulers strata
    Colonist job
    Soldier job
    Specialists jobs
    Criminal jobs
    Worker jobs
    Clerk job; clerks are basically the "extra" job that worker pops promote from when pretty much any other job is available. (unless they are thrifty, syncretic proles that are *not* enslaved, or pops from the Numistic Order, then they stay there over other worker jobs, but should still promote to any specialist, soldier or ruler jobs given the chance)

    The weights for the first three are 10 times higher or more than anything else, which pretty much means that once a pop gets one of those jobs, they are only leaving when someone objectively better for the job comes along (though I believe being in the specialist strata already will keep anyone there from abandoning their spot for a soldier job) Most non-worker jobs also have an extra weight for already being that job, to keep them from jumping to new specialist jobs unless they are better for it than their current job or first lose their job to someone with the right traits.

    Beyond that, the biggest, most important thing to be aware of that I can see at a glance is that Researcher and Head Researcher do not have weights to prevent proles/syncretic proles/nerve stapled pops from taking those jobs! If they get a job there, the only way to get rid of them is to close the job or get a pop that has a science trait. you have been warned.

    For Geshalt Consciousness, it goes like such:

    Spawner Drones
    Synapse Drones
    Soldier Drones
    Complex Drones
    Simple Drones

    GC's have considerably fewer weights for pops than normal empires, including no "already at the job" weight, though they have most trait weights. Also, fun fact, Driven Assimilators have a bit of line so that cybernetic pops take priority over robots for simple drone jobs, and less priority over pretty much anything else. But this is only for the first year (or maybe start?) afterwards they are treated as equals.

    Foefaller on
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  • skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I would recommend NOT playing Rogue Servitors right now as they are not balanced for the new economy and you'll be underwater from day one!

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    So, Caravanners can do some crazy things - i had one of them offer to bless a planet of mine for 300 minerals. Something trival, even early in the game.

    It gave my planet +3 generator districts, and +2 max districts.

    For context, that's basically as good as making a planet +2 size under the old system.

    Course, sometimes they offer you complete junk! But hey, it's fun.

    Right now i've been restarting games a lot, trying to get a feel for how to get an economy rolling. I feel like it's very easy to hamstring yourself on research - The majority of your esearch comes from jobs, which require a dedicated building slot. Enough so i think i like building a 2nd research building as one of my very earliest choices?

    Other random thoughts: Bio ascension feels really good right now. Incredibly good, in point of fact. Bit of a pain to get unlocked though

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    First time a Caravaneer caravan entered my systems, some of them wanted to leave the fleet and settle down on my capitol planet. Playing a Xenophile Empire, of course I accepted.

    The Pop I got had Tomb World Habitability, Psionics, Thrifty and so many negative traits that their traits points were at something like -2. Still, made that size 20 Tomb World in a nearby system a lot more habitable all of a sudden.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I had the xeno-compatibility perk and some caravaners came by, had a huge part and some of us "got closer than others" and they left behind a bunch of half-breed pops.

    This was after the worm turned my home system into a shitton of tomb world planets and gave us tomb world compatibility.

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    I wish there was a way to see what the caravaneers were actually offering, rather than just the name. Early on the game last night I was offered some tech for more energy than I could possibly afford. Apparently the tech was useless to hiveminds, but there was no way for me to preview it.

    Later some shady caravaneers swung by and offered me a building tech for some pops, which felt like a perfect deal since hive minds kind of swim in pops. This turned out to be a building which generated 10 minerals/10 energy as well as 2 energy making jobs, which is crazy good earlygame.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Yea, you gotta be careful because a building will establish itself, but it wont go into effect until next month. If you have multiple constructions popping off, it can very easily unbalance your economy, as well as what Aura said about working against yourself. Case and point If you put down a bunch of alloy forges, your workers will go there and *not* stay at the mineral mines... that are needed for making the alloys in the first place. As well as energy generation taking a hit because techs might go to the forge and that 4energy upkeep is actually, 6 or 7 because a tech decided to switch jobs. @_@

    Also, a thing I've been noticing in single-player especially is that jobs tend to outstrip pop growth by a lot, and pops prefer to come into existence doing the middle-tier ones and not the basic ones, which is definitely responsible for some of the weird swings in food, in particular, that I've been seeing.

    I think basically instead of building just because you have slots or resources, you should wait until you have unemployed pops to create new jobs.

    This works until the Tier 2 and Tier 3 stuff comes online and your researcher / alloy dude job availability increases - it's primarily a problem with the buildings that have extra-dude upgrades. Some examples of what works / the new world-typing system:

    Farm World
    Agri-World_zpscdsmwty8.jpg?t=1544186346

    Refinery World
    Refinery%20World_zps1zbtqoxf.jpg?t=1544186346

    An intermediate one I only just upgraded for mercantile purposes, which used to be more or less self-sufficient for crafting most of my consumer goods:
    Crafting_zpsvmswuebm.jpg?t=1544186346

    That species' homeworld, which is at 25 jobs over, most of which are clerks I've turned off:
    I had to extensively rebuild that last one once upgrades for the alloy plants and labs made it more efficient to have fewer. Conceding that in some ways trying to maintain full employment without hitches is a pipe-dream even in this, I think the way you lurch from tier to tier on the large-employment buildings makes the workers' tendencies awkward.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    The better buildings you get the more attractive the pure housing districts get. In our game last night my homeworld was above 80 pops and employment was starting to be a problem. But once I get some more motes/gas going I can turn on the upgraded buildings and it should be fine.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Huh. So far all the caravaneers have offered me was a destroyer for 200 minerals.

    After I bought it they stole 200 energy credits.

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