In a grand display of 'what the fuck', pro-pipeline protesters have shown up to protest that the pipeline hasn't been built yet by... massively disrupting traffic in Edmonton, a largely pro-pipeline city.
Given that Alberta votes overwhelmingly Conservative federally, and that pipeline support is pretty high across Alberta, what do they think they're accomplishing here? What leverage do they think they're applying?
I just... this province.
I just wanted to point out that the demonstrations are basically following Andrew Scheer around because people REALLY want him to understand how badly we want pipelines. It's not that they are screaming into the void about pipes, they're trying to impress upon the perceived incoming leadership how important this is to "regular Albertans".
Doesn't change the fact that our current Premier has already been borderline militant with trying to get them, and the Federal gov't has made more effort than the Haper gov't ever did... But no, current gov't has screwed us, there is no complex issue, the new guy will fix everything!
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
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DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
Well shit, I guess BC won't be the province to lead the way on voter reform by getting rid of FPTP.
Oh hey I found my official response to the referendum results.
it's a fart noise and yelling "FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF" as loudly as I possibly can while tossing my middle finger at the entire province
Edit: and what a fucking great metaphor from the weather today. "Oh hey BC decided to shit the bed entirely in electoral reform" right alongside "millions in BC without power"
Indication number one that a party is only faking a reform of the electoral system: they use a referendum.
Most of the public does not care and scare easily, so the status quo basically always won, if offered.
In a grand display of 'what the fuck', pro-pipeline protesters have shown up to protest that the pipeline hasn't been built yet by... massively disrupting traffic in Edmonton, a largely pro-pipeline city.
Given that Alberta votes overwhelmingly Conservative federally, and that pipeline support is pretty high across Alberta, what do they think they're accomplishing here? What leverage do they think they're applying?
I just... this province.
I just wanted to point out that the demonstrations are basically following Andrew Scheer around because people REALLY want him to understand how badly we want pipelines. It's not that they are screaming into the void about pipes, they're trying to impress upon the perceived incoming leadership how important this is to "regular Albertans".
Doesn't change the fact that our current Premier has already been borderline militant with trying to get them, and the Federal gov't has made more effort than the Haper gov't ever did... But no, current gov't has screwed us, there is no complex issue, the new guy will fix everything!
Or the Conservatives are arranging to have protesters on camera where Scheer is.
I'm eternally bemused at the irony of asking people to use the old style of voting they've always used to change the old style of voting they've always used.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
This is why electoral reform is difficult. Just not doing anything is powerful, a lot of people don't really care much about the issue and it is difficult for a single government to have the perceived legitimacy to do anything about it without a referendum or multi-party buy-in or the like.
I think half the reason is also that the average person just doesn't understand the alternative, and never will. Elections essentially use the same basic bit of math we learn as children. It's the same system we use for everything else when it comes to asking what a group wants.
"Ok group, what do you want to do, A, B, or C? Show of hands."
4 want A.
3 want B.
2 want C.
4>3>2. A wins. It doesn't really matter if technically 5 people were against A and it's not fair that 4 beats 5. Because to the average person, it is fair. The group was asked, the higher number wins.
It sucks. And I don't really know what you can do to fix it. But like I said, there's a silly irony in putting the whole thing to a vote using the system you want to vote against.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I am a bit surprised at the 61% but not the result overall.
At the end of the day I think people were just unsure of "compromise government". They'd rather the one party makes the rules see-saw.
I don't agree with that outlook but I understand it.
Indication number one that a party is only faking a reform of the electoral system: they use a referendum.
Most of the public does not care and scare easily, so the status quo basically always won, if offered.
I was just saying that this morning. Changing electoral policy is not a decision that should be left to the electorate.
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
You do need to campaign on electoral reform to have some legitimacy, and I have no problem with a referendum on the specific form of reform, as long as the status quo is not an option.
Ideally, if a consensus is not possible, I want the party in power to ask the largest opposition party that doesn't want the status quo which system they prefer, and do that.
It'll be interesting to see how PEI's electoral reform referendum will go next year. In some ways, I almost wonder if the smaller electorate might make it easier. The provincial Green party is consistently polling in the high 30s these days (frequently in first), so maybe voters there will be open to switching things up.
Maybe not, but certainly something to keep an eye on.
Indication number one that a party is only faking a reform of the electoral system: they use a referendum.
Most of the public does not care and scare easily, so the status quo basically always won, if offered.
I was just saying that this morning. Changing electoral policy is not a decision that should be left to the electorate.
Coming from the land of Jim Crow...I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with the Government making such a constitutional change in the fundamental precept of self government without direct input from voters.
Indication number one that a party is only faking a reform of the electoral system: they use a referendum.
Most of the public does not care and scare easily, so the status quo basically always won, if offered.
I was just saying that this morning. Changing electoral policy is not a decision that should be left to the electorate.
Coming from the land of Jim Crow...I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with the Government making such a constitutional change in the fundamental precept of self government without direct input from voters.
Jim Crow shittyness can be done quite easily without touching the voting system (Harper certainly tried), and there's already a strong protection against disenfranchisement:
Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of the members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.
Not even the notwithstanding clause can change that.
Indication number one that a party is only faking a reform of the electoral system: they use a referendum.
Most of the public does not care and scare easily, so the status quo basically always won, if offered.
I was just saying that this morning. Changing electoral policy is not a decision that should be left to the electorate.
Coming from the land of Jim Crow...I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with the Government making such a constitutional change in the fundamental precept of self government without direct input from voters.
In Quebec, the situation is that 3 of the 4 major parties, representing a majority of ridings and of voters, agree on the reform. So I'm comfortable with it.
He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you’re awake. No, it's not the head of the country’s spy agency, but another all-knowing Canadian: Santa Claus.
That’s right, according to various government departments and agencies, Good Ol' Saint Nicholas is a Canadian citizen who lives, and pays taxes here.
Santa has no income though. He only gets paid under the table in milk and cookies. So he is living in is North Pole mansion on public assistance 11 months a year.
Santa has no income though. He only gets paid under the table in milk and cookies. So he is living in is North Pole mansion on public assistance 11 months a year.
He is the purveyor in charge of a large coal mine.
Santa has no income though. He only gets paid under the table in milk and cookies. So he is living in is North Pole mansion on public assistance 11 months a year.
He is the purveyor in charge of a large coal mine.
But he just gives it away. He just forces a different intelligent species to create knockoffs that are so close to the original they would be at home in an street market.
Slavery is illegal in Canada. Those elfs are employees. They get paid.
I'm sure various agencies are quite interested in figuring out what, exactly, is Santa's source of income, but it's rather obvious when you think about it.
With an intelligence network capable of the List, and Santa's infiltration capabilities?
Obviously doing contract work for CSIS-SCRS.
Slavery is illegal. But Santa will just say, with tears in his eyes, that he needs the non-existent wages at that level or he would have to pass along wage increases in costs to the consumer when he violates copyright laws. He just offers a room and board payment plan. The elves are free to leave at anytime and be killed by polar bears while trying to find civilization.
Then the CPC will criticize the Liberals for attacking a poor global business owner. Suffocating him with rules while he tries to deliver the illegal merchandise on Christmas while violating international air traffic laws.
Examining some of the other linkages in our study reveals that disapproval of the Trudeau government is not only a function of policy evaluations but is linked to negative opinions towards the news media, gay people, people of colour, Muslims. Disapproval of the Trudeau government is higher among people who hold the following views:
• 10 points higher among those who say abortion should be against the law
• 14 points higher among those who say being gay is a choice that should be discouraged
• 17 points higher among those who think the news media is the enemy of the people of Canada
• 19 points higher among those who “fed up with all the emphasis on promoting women’s interests”.
• 24 points higher among those who think Canada would be better off if it was more white
• 25 points higher among those who say Canada would be better off if there were no Muslims here ...
We will put out more data on these social divisions in the days to come, but it is worth noting that these views, while the minority, are held by more than a tiny fraction of the population: 27% say the media is the enemy of the people, 25% say Canada would be better off with no Muslims, 22% say Canada would be better off if it was more white, 19% say abortion should be against the law.”
The national numbers conceal crucial regional differences. In Alberta, disapproval runs at 57%; in most other parts of the country, it is well below 50% including in BC, Ontario, and Quebec.
• Ratings for the government’s handling of the TMX pipeline reflect an unusual alignment of anti-pipe and pro-pipe voters. Poor ratings are offered by 42% of those on the left, and 55% of those on the right....
Looking closer at who disapproves of the PM’s climate policy, surprisingly, it’s not just Conservative supporters. In fact, only 53% of current Conservative supporters feel the PM is doing a poor job on climate change and greenhouse gases. One in three NDP supporters and 46% of Green Party supporters also think he’s performing poorly on the file.
Looking at it another way, 68% of those who think the PM is doing poorly on climate change also think climate change is a crisis that demands action and among those group, 58% support either the Liberal, New Democratic, BQ, or Green parties.
Yeaaaaaah, I'm really moving towards the the enemy of my enemy is my friend territory here.
"[Insert current Liberal leader here] has their highest disapproval rating in Alberta" seems like a headline that will probably be true well past my lifetime.
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Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
edited January 2019
So the people who disapprove of Trudeau are people we shouldn't be paying any attention to anyway?
Glad to know that I'm ahead of the curve.
Edit: I should add that I wish there was a great deal more action in global warming, but at this point I’m happy with the action we’ve had on social issues and I’m not about to let perfect be the enemy of the good.
Descendant X on
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
Those percentages are lower than I would expect and still horrifying.
27% say the media is the enemy of the people, 25% say Canada would be better off with no Muslims, 22% say Canada would be better off if it was more white, 19% say abortion should be against the law
So the people who disapprove of Trudeau are people we shouldn't be paying any attention to anyway?
Glad to know that I'm ahead of the curve.
Edit: I should add that I wish there was a great deal more action in global warming, but at this point I’m happy with the action we’ve had on social issues and I’m not about to let perfect be the enemy of the good.
They deserve to be paid attention to just as much as the rest of us ... its just under FPTP, you only need 26%-34% to ignore the other 65%-74% whose pundits spend their time calling whoever didn't vote for the 2nd biggest voting block of the riding a split vote. It can result in wild swings in seat representatives that lead to them being listened to far in excess of how much they should be, for any side that wins under FPTP.
I disapprove of Trudeau, I didn't vote for the Liberal candidate in my riding, but it doesn't mean I voted for the Conservative's candidate either. At the same time, just because I don't like how badly Trudeau's government has handled Fisheries, Coast Guard, Trans Mountain, Phoenix Pay, and fulfilling the promise of being the last election using FPTP, doesn't mean I can't see how poorly the other political actors are doing in convincing me that their good messages are resonating with an engaged electorate enough to use FPTP to get a clear mandate to get rid of it and beat back the self destructive propaganda and the money behind it giving rise to a new wave of despots and politically motivated agitator driven violence. Canadian politics is more nuanced than the Us vs Them narrative that is trying to be repeated here and perpetuated by the voting system. I don't want to be wondering why we didn't stop the nazis this time despite all the red flags that have been around since the Harper years, especially when we are also facing a world wide climate crisis.
So the people who disapprove of Trudeau are people we shouldn't be paying any attention to anyway?
Glad to know that I'm ahead of the curve.
Edit: I should add that I wish there was a great deal more action in global warming, but at this point I’m happy with the action we’ve had on social issues and I’m not about to let perfect be the enemy of the good.
They deserve to be paid attention to just as much as the rest of us ... its just under FPTP, you only need 26%-34% to ignore the other 65%-74% whose pundits spend their time calling whoever didn't vote for the 2nd biggest voting block of the riding a split vote. It can result in wild swings in seat representatives that lead to them being listened to far in excess of how much they should be, for any side that wins under FPTP.
I disapprove of Trudeau, I didn't vote for the Liberal candidate in my riding, but it doesn't mean I voted for the Conservative's candidate either. At the same time, just because I don't like how badly Trudeau's government has handled Fisheries, Coast Guard, Trans Mountain, Phoenix Pay, and fulfilling the promise of being the last election using FPTP, doesn't mean I can't see how poorly the other political actors are doing in convincing me that their good messages are resonating with an engaged electorate enough to use FPTP to get a clear mandate to get rid of it and beat back the self destructive propaganda and the money behind it giving rise to a new wave of despots and politically motivated agitator driven violence. Canadian politics is more nuanced than the Us vs Them narrative that is trying to be repeated here and perpetuated by the voting system. I don't want to be wondering why we didn't stop the nazis this time despite all the red flags that have been around since the Harper years, especially when we are also facing a world wide climate crisis.
I just... a pipeline, FPTP, and Phoenix etc. seem like such goddamned small potatoes next to abortion, Muslims, visible minorities in Canada, LGBTQ, and an unbiased media.
I dislike political polarization as much as anybody, but for me, this just isn't the fucking time for all of us to come together, to vote for what we really want in our hearts, just because Harper's been gone for four years. Scheer's worse than Harper. Kenney's worse than Harper. Ford's worse than Harper. I can't vote for the NDP or the Greens or the Bloc or whoever, so long as the Liberals are competitive in my riding. I can't say, oh I really wish there wasn't a pipeline and put the rights of minorities, women, and queer people in Canada at risk for that. I'd barely know what to do if the federal Conservatives won because we split the fucking sane vote again, never mind what I'd do if I contributed to that directly.
Posts
Exactly. That's why it's very important to make sure you weight the same as a duck before doing witchcraft.
I just wanted to point out that the demonstrations are basically following Andrew Scheer around because people REALLY want him to understand how badly we want pipelines. It's not that they are screaming into the void about pipes, they're trying to impress upon the perceived incoming leadership how important this is to "regular Albertans".
Doesn't change the fact that our current Premier has already been borderline militant with trying to get them, and the Federal gov't has made more effort than the Haper gov't ever did... But no, current gov't has screwed us, there is no complex issue, the new guy will fix everything!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/electoral-reform-referendum-results-expected-1.4954538
Edit: and what a fucking great metaphor from the weather today. "Oh hey BC decided to shit the bed entirely in electoral reform" right alongside "millions in BC without power"
Just fucking.. great job, universe.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
*sad trombone*
Most of the public does not care and scare easily, so the status quo basically always won, if offered.
Or the Conservatives are arranging to have protesters on camera where Scheer is.
"Ok group, what do you want to do, A, B, or C? Show of hands."
4 want A.
3 want B.
2 want C.
4>3>2. A wins. It doesn't really matter if technically 5 people were against A and it's not fair that 4 beats 5. Because to the average person, it is fair. The group was asked, the higher number wins.
It sucks. And I don't really know what you can do to fix it. But like I said, there's a silly irony in putting the whole thing to a vote using the system you want to vote against.
At the end of the day I think people were just unsure of "compromise government". They'd rather the one party makes the rules see-saw.
I don't agree with that outlook but I understand it.
Part of why I'm cautiously optimistic about the CAQ getting electoral reform done is that they said they won't put it up to a referendum.
On the flipside, if we let them leave it'd be real easy to build a wall around Alberta.
It's making the Americans pay for it that would be the tricky part...
I was just saying that this morning. Changing electoral policy is not a decision that should be left to the electorate.
Ideally, if a consensus is not possible, I want the party in power to ask the largest opposition party that doesn't want the status quo which system they prefer, and do that.
Maybe not, but certainly something to keep an eye on.
Coming from the land of Jim Crow...I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with the Government making such a constitutional change in the fundamental precept of self government without direct input from voters.
In Quebec, the situation is that 3 of the 4 major parties, representing a majority of ridings and of voters, agree on the reform. So I'm comfortable with it.
He is the purveyor in charge of a large coal mine.
But he just gives it away. He just forces a different intelligent species to create knockoffs that are so close to the original they would be at home in an street market.
I'm sure various agencies are quite interested in figuring out what, exactly, is Santa's source of income, but it's rather obvious when you think about it.
Obviously doing contract work for CSIS-SCRS.
Then the CPC will criticize the Liberals for attacking a poor global business owner. Suffocating him with rules while he tries to deliver the illegal merchandise on Christmas while violating international air traffic laws.
There is no reforming these domestic murderers, so this is the best option.
Farmers don't pay cows, Santa doesn't pay elves.
MWO: Adamski
Yeaaaaaah, I'm really moving towards the the enemy of my enemy is my friend territory here.
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
Glad to know that I'm ahead of the curve.
Edit: I should add that I wish there was a great deal more action in global warming, but at this point I’m happy with the action we’ve had on social issues and I’m not about to let perfect be the enemy of the good.
We're a diverse bunch, these days.
This makes me sick to my stomach.
They deserve to be paid attention to just as much as the rest of us ... its just under FPTP, you only need 26%-34% to ignore the other 65%-74% whose pundits spend their time calling whoever didn't vote for the 2nd biggest voting block of the riding a split vote. It can result in wild swings in seat representatives that lead to them being listened to far in excess of how much they should be, for any side that wins under FPTP.
I disapprove of Trudeau, I didn't vote for the Liberal candidate in my riding, but it doesn't mean I voted for the Conservative's candidate either. At the same time, just because I don't like how badly Trudeau's government has handled Fisheries, Coast Guard, Trans Mountain, Phoenix Pay, and fulfilling the promise of being the last election using FPTP, doesn't mean I can't see how poorly the other political actors are doing in convincing me that their good messages are resonating with an engaged electorate enough to use FPTP to get a clear mandate to get rid of it and beat back the self destructive propaganda and the money behind it giving rise to a new wave of despots and politically motivated agitator driven violence. Canadian politics is more nuanced than the Us vs Them narrative that is trying to be repeated here and perpetuated by the voting system. I don't want to be wondering why we didn't stop the nazis this time despite all the red flags that have been around since the Harper years, especially when we are also facing a world wide climate crisis.
I just... a pipeline, FPTP, and Phoenix etc. seem like such goddamned small potatoes next to abortion, Muslims, visible minorities in Canada, LGBTQ, and an unbiased media.
I dislike political polarization as much as anybody, but for me, this just isn't the fucking time for all of us to come together, to vote for what we really want in our hearts, just because Harper's been gone for four years. Scheer's worse than Harper. Kenney's worse than Harper. Ford's worse than Harper. I can't vote for the NDP or the Greens or the Bloc or whoever, so long as the Liberals are competitive in my riding. I can't say, oh I really wish there wasn't a pipeline and put the rights of minorities, women, and queer people in Canada at risk for that. I'd barely know what to do if the federal Conservatives won because we split the fucking sane vote again, never mind what I'd do if I contributed to that directly.