The sharks and the bow thralls don't currently show up much in competitive lists (which is a shame cos the models are very nice!) but the Tidecaster and melee thralls are good, and the eels form the backbone of pretty much every IDK list right now. So it's not a horrible box or anything, for casual/beginner games it's more than adequate, and it's certainly the cheapest way to get into IDK until they (possibly) get a Start Collecting box. Plus the competitive meta for AoS changes quite rapidly anyway, by next year Allopexes could be the new hotness, who knows? If you like the models it's a good buy.
the sharks costing 45 bucks a piece as well is nuts
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Yo, Fiends are looking pretty damn good now, a bunch of warscrolls are getting updated with Wrath and Rapture it looks like (Sorry Bloodletters...) Definitely interested to see how the eventual Slaanesh tome shakes out, they can already do some pretty nifty stuff with their GHB allegiance.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Yo, Fiends are looking pretty damn good now, a bunch of warscrolls are getting updated with Wrath and Rapture it looks like (Sorry Bloodletters...) Definitely interested to see how the eventual Slaanesh tome shakes out, they can already do some pretty nifty stuff with their GHB allegiance.
what are their points cost, because those are spicy as hell
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
They're currently 140 for 3, with a max squad size of 9, but their current warscroll is also much worse than this new one, and it looks like the new kit might only be two models, which could change the unit composition? So presumably the points will be increasing somewhere.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
just comparing those to goregruntas makes me sad
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
For sure, though the pre-update Fiend profile was a little more in line with goregruntas I think.
I hope those rumour rumblings of updates for the early battletomes are true, Ironjawz, Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, KO, etc. could all use a looking at. As much as I enjoy AoS (and I do a lot!) they could do with deciding what they want to do with all the current half-factions and do, like, a year of comparable battletomes for everything like they did for 40k.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited December 2018
ironjawz just need some point-drops and they'll be quite good
the ability to waagh 3+times in a single turn makes them quite lethal still, but their spell-casting is lacking and they're about 15% too expensive across the board
also ghordrak is way WAY overcosted
EDIT: also monclan is very likely the next army book, and might come with destruction updates(hopefully)
Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
The latest round of FAQs for AoS just dropped (though I had some trouble getting them to show up on the webpage, had to put it into A-Z listing and then back again.)
Nothing too major, some of the more stand-out Malign Sorcery artefacts brought into line (namely Doppelganger Cloak becomes a once per battle effect), Mirrorpool and Realm of Shadow teleports are made to work like every other teleport in the game, a clarification that 'wholly within' means 'wholly within' and a few notes on the more recent battletomes, but nothing meta-quaking I don't think.
I played my first game of Underworlds tonight. Please send help.
I had two games, using Steelheart's Champions against Garrek's Reavers both times. First game I lost 3 to 4, second game I lost 0 to 8. Although I got my ass handed to me I had a blast both times. Luckily there are a decent number of people who play in my meta, so it'll be nice to be able to head to the FLGS and not have to lug around a huge case full of models to get some games in.
Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
This image is also doing the rounds, though I cannot confirm if it's genuine or not:
Interesting name change if so, I was expecting just Moonclan, to me this suggests more of a Beasts of Chaos treatment with stuff like spiderfang (And troggoths maybe, ala Nightvault?) folded into a general battletome, but the cover art is definitely representing at least one new unit type, if not more, so a bigger release than BoC maybe. Interesting!
I know I bought the Daughters of Khaine box for myself to really play Warhammer for once instead of just paint it
But the Night Gobbos might join that ideal
I just have the DoK one
40k wise except for the Orks one I have codexes for all the armies I have
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
The new models for the Gloomspites look great. Love those new mangler squigs.
Doesn't seem like the Spiderfang models are getting any new updates, I imagine they're probably considered pretty good already. Certainly I don't think the arachnarok model needs any kind of update. I would love some new spider riders with giant spiders covered in mushrooms though.
Yeah the new models look great. Shame the standard goblins aren't changed.
Really keen to see what they'll do with Malerions aelves.
I don't Tyrions aelves are represented on the tabletop either?
When my brother found his wood elf and high elf armies he remarked that they probably are not playable anymore and how odd it is they don't have army books as that was sure as the sun rises under the old GW
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Yeah the new models look great. Shame the standard goblins aren't changed.
Really keen to see what they'll do with Malerions aelves.
I don't Tyrions aelves are represented on the tabletop either?
Not yet. As I understand it, all previous aelf units (dark, high, wood) are basically 'found' tribes that happened to be in the Mortal Realms somehow before the gods woke up, and weren't created by any of them.
I would have expected Malerion's guys to be all scaley and snakey, but Morathi sort've did that already. So now I don't know what their deal will be.
Local Man orders some Khorne Bloodbound models in what authorities are calling a deliberate attempt to sabotage his own hobby progress with an entirely new army, we'll have the full interview and more at 11.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
This Troglodyte vs Skaven box seems cool. My friend was telling me about the Troglodytes last night.
I've also really wanted to play Skaven but they are so confusing.
I might grab this box though.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Ah, so it seems like it takes the announcement of new Skaven things to finally reinvigorate my desire to paint the ... thousands of points of models I have....
New year, new army. Giving AoS a shot with a couple friends. After really failing to enjoy the game with Fyreslayers last year I'm giving Seraphon a try this year. I played Lizardmen back in the day around 6th/7th edition so this feels like a return of sorts.
I picked up that awesome Skink battleforce so I'm going to start lots of Skinks.
I also wanted a unique Slann so yesterday I built this and started painting it:
A friend of mine came over last night and we played a few games of Underworlds. After not having any luck with the Steelheart's Champions warband I gave Garrek's Reavers a shot and had way more fun. These guys start off as turds, but as soon as they get inspired they turn into lightning fast death machines.
Speaking of Khorne dudes, my BoC stuff arrived yesterday and I've been having fun building it. I play 40K but for a while I have been sort of collecting a tiny bit of AOS slowly in the background (mainly through the $30 and $40 starter sets and boardgames), so now I have a small Bloodbound army:
So, I decided to start a Beastclaw Raiders army and ordered 3 SC! boxes.
While I'm waiting, I'm reading up on their rules and planning loadouts.
Something about the mournfangs is unclear to me, though: To get the "Iron Fists" ability bonus, does the entire unit have to be equipped with culling clubs/iron fists, or just one model?
Because other than that ability, gargant hackers are strictly superior against all enemies (since damage carries over, unlike in 40k), and I'm not sure that ability makes clubs worth it if everyone has to take clubs over hackers.
(Incidentally, why does AoS even have a D characteristic? It would be functionally identical to remove that stat entirely and just increase number of attacks instead. (Barring special rules like stone skeleton, of course, but that could be emulated in other ways.))
The whole pack must be armed the same way, so buffs aside you are indeed choosing between rend or the Iron Fist bonus damage.
Attacks and damage are separated out to provide more design space to hang abilities on. You say 'barring special rules like...' but AoS has a lot of special rules floating around.
Thanks! That was not super clear from the warscroll. (It also means it's impossible to build a legal wysiwyg 4-man mournfang pack from one box, since it comes with two hackers and three clubs…)
So what's the optimal choice, then? Hackers or clubs?
Also, is it better to maximize the number of units or maximize the size of the units of mournfangs?
Generally you run minimum sized units of mournfangs to save points for the big stuff, but a big unit of mounrfangs is actually pretty tasty so there’s no real wrong answer there.
Command elements have the weapons of the unit, so it’s perfectly legal to have a banner dude musician and the champ have hackers even though they have one handed weapons, as long as the unit also has hackers.
The scroll referring to the pack having X or Y weapon rather than models being armed with X or Y is what means the whole lot have to be armed the same.
I'm guessing the loadout mix in the box is why the minimum unit size is 2 models. So technically that box could make two separate legal units.
Who knows on optimal choice! If there were a definite answer then it wouldn't be much of a choice would it? Maybe extra rend is better if you attack first and the save damage bounce is better if you attack second?
AoS isn't great on modelling for rules optimisation anyway. You'll see from the Warscroll that there's no rules reason you can't model every single guy as a horn blowing banner carrier. I've no idea if people in the competitive scene do that kind of thing or not. 99% of the time you can remove models of your choosing so it doesn't matter, but individual model sniping abilities do exist.
The scroll referring to the pack having X or Y weapon rather than models being armed with X or Y is what means the whole lot have to be armed the same.
I'm guessing the loadout mix in the box is why the minimum unit size is 2 models. So technically that box could make two separate legal units.
Who knows on optimal choice! If there were a definite answer then it wouldn't be much of a choice would it? Maybe extra rend is better if you attack first and the save damage bounce is better if you attack second?
AoS isn't great on modelling for rules optimisation anyway. You'll see from the Warscroll that there's no rules reason you can't model every single guy as a horn blowing banner carrier. I've no idea if people in the competitive scene do that kind of thing or not. 99% of the time you can remove models of your choosing so it doesn't matter, but individual model sniping abilities do exist.
It’s not common, but they did have to errata the fish elf infantry because there was no seperate champion, being the banner bearer gave an extra attack instead, so you had whole units of them.
I did the math again, and if every mournfang model takes more than two wounds (after to hit and to wound, but prior to save), clubs outperform hackers.
Ignoring the iron fists rule, regardless of the enemy save, clubs do 1/3 unsaved wound less than a hacker (per mournfang model). So, if the mournfang model takes two wounds (prior to save), iron fists exactly make up the difference.
Of course you have to bear in mind enemy buffs/abilities. Like Nightaunts pretty much universally ignore rend, that kind of thing.
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Also bear in mind I think Ironfists work on Save rolls of 6+, and not unmodified Save rolls of 6, which is something to bear in mind as it means they will not get the opportunity to bounce back damage against anything which has a rend value. (They newer battletomes tend to use unmodified rolls for those sorts of abilities, if they get round to updating BCR at some point I'd expect them to follow suite.
Personally all my Mournfang have the hackers, but on a 4+ hit roll they're so swingy that I can certainly see the value in just taking more attacks!
Posts
the sharks costing 45 bucks a piece as well is nuts
what are their points cost, because those are spicy as hell
I hope those rumour rumblings of updates for the early battletomes are true, Ironjawz, Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, KO, etc. could all use a looking at. As much as I enjoy AoS (and I do a lot!) they could do with deciding what they want to do with all the current half-factions and do, like, a year of comparable battletomes for everything like they did for 40k.
the ability to waagh 3+times in a single turn makes them quite lethal still, but their spell-casting is lacking and they're about 15% too expensive across the board
also ghordrak is way WAY overcosted
EDIT: also monclan is very likely the next army book, and might come with destruction updates(hopefully)
I bet it's great fun to work at their HQ.
Nothing too major, some of the more stand-out Malign Sorcery artefacts brought into line (namely Doppelganger Cloak becomes a once per battle effect), Mirrorpool and Realm of Shadow teleports are made to work like every other teleport in the game, a clarification that 'wholly within' means 'wholly within' and a few notes on the more recent battletomes, but nothing meta-quaking I don't think.
I had two games, using Steelheart's Champions against Garrek's Reavers both times. First game I lost 3 to 4, second game I lost 0 to 8. Although I got my ass handed to me I had a blast both times. Luckily there are a decent number of people who play in my meta, so it'll be nice to be able to head to the FLGS and not have to lug around a huge case full of models to get some games in.
Interesting name change if so, I was expecting just Moonclan, to me this suggests more of a Beasts of Chaos treatment with stuff like spiderfang (And troggoths maybe, ala Nightvault?) folded into a general battletome, but the cover art is definitely representing at least one new unit type, if not more, so a bigger release than BoC maybe. Interesting!
Quite a few new/updated kits for the Gloomspite Gits.
But the Night Gobbos might join that ideal
40k wise except for the Orks one I have codexes for all the armies I have
Doesn't seem like the Spiderfang models are getting any new updates, I imagine they're probably considered pretty good already. Certainly I don't think the arachnarok model needs any kind of update. I would love some new spider riders with giant spiders covered in mushrooms though.
Really keen to see what they'll do with Malerions aelves.
I don't Tyrions aelves are represented on the tabletop either?
When my brother found his wood elf and high elf armies he remarked that they probably are not playable anymore and how odd it is they don't have army books as that was sure as the sun rises under the old GW
Not yet. As I understand it, all previous aelf units (dark, high, wood) are basically 'found' tribes that happened to be in the Mortal Realms somehow before the gods woke up, and weren't created by any of them.
I would have expected Malerion's guys to be all scaley and snakey, but Morathi sort've did that already. So now I don't know what their deal will be.
I've also really wanted to play Skaven but they are so confusing.
I might grab this box though.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Is that the Carrion Empires box, or something else?
Which means we’re going to see new acolyte (globadier) models. And hopefully other things in plastic like weapon teams.
And a big land submarine.
Yes, Carrion Empires box.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I picked up that awesome Skink battleforce so I'm going to start lots of Skinks.
I also wanted a unique Slann so yesterday I built this and started painting it:
More Slann build pictures are over in the painting thread here.
Speaking of Khorne dudes, my BoC stuff arrived yesterday and I've been having fun building it. I play 40K but for a while I have been sort of collecting a tiny bit of AOS slowly in the background (mainly through the $30 and $40 starter sets and boardgames), so now I have a small Bloodbound army:
Bloodsecrator
Khorgorath
Bloodstoker
10 Blood Warriors
20 Bloodreavers
Garrek's Reavers
Exalted Deathbringer
Skullgrinder
Slaughterpriest
Aspiring Deathbringer
Magore's Fiends
Building these guys is a lot of fun, but painting them looks like it's going to be a challenge. Everyone has spikes and chains and straps everywhere.
While I'm waiting, I'm reading up on their rules and planning loadouts.
Something about the mournfangs is unclear to me, though: To get the "Iron Fists" ability bonus, does the entire unit have to be equipped with culling clubs/iron fists, or just one model?
Because other than that ability, gargant hackers are strictly superior against all enemies (since damage carries over, unlike in 40k), and I'm not sure that ability makes clubs worth it if everyone has to take clubs over hackers.
(Incidentally, why does AoS even have a D characteristic? It would be functionally identical to remove that stat entirely and just increase number of attacks instead. (Barring special rules like stone skeleton, of course, but that could be emulated in other ways.))
Attacks and damage are separated out to provide more design space to hang abilities on. You say 'barring special rules like...' but AoS has a lot of special rules floating around.
So what's the optimal choice, then? Hackers or clubs?
Also, is it better to maximize the number of units or maximize the size of the units of mournfangs?
Generally you run minimum sized units of mournfangs to save points for the big stuff, but a big unit of mounrfangs is actually pretty tasty so there’s no real wrong answer there.
Command elements have the weapons of the unit, so it’s perfectly legal to have a banner dude musician and the champ have hackers even though they have one handed weapons, as long as the unit also has hackers.
I'm guessing the loadout mix in the box is why the minimum unit size is 2 models. So technically that box could make two separate legal units.
Who knows on optimal choice! If there were a definite answer then it wouldn't be much of a choice would it? Maybe extra rend is better if you attack first and the save damage bounce is better if you attack second?
AoS isn't great on modelling for rules optimisation anyway. You'll see from the Warscroll that there's no rules reason you can't model every single guy as a horn blowing banner carrier. I've no idea if people in the competitive scene do that kind of thing or not. 99% of the time you can remove models of your choosing so it doesn't matter, but individual model sniping abilities do exist.
It’s not common, but they did have to errata the fish elf infantry because there was no seperate champion, being the banner bearer gave an extra attack instead, so you had whole units of them.
I did the math again, and if every mournfang model takes more than two wounds (after to hit and to wound, but prior to save), clubs outperform hackers.
Ignoring the iron fists rule, regardless of the enemy save, clubs do 1/3 unsaved wound less than a hacker (per mournfang model). So, if the mournfang model takes two wounds (prior to save), iron fists exactly make up the difference.
That seems a fairly likely scenario?
Personally all my Mournfang have the hackers, but on a 4+ hit roll they're so swingy that I can certainly see the value in just taking more attacks!