And let's be real and a bit cynical. The only reason MS is still doing BC is because it's about the only bullet point they have on Sony and they'll take anything they can get. If MS were the top dog right now, I have no doubts that they wouldn't give two shits about BC.
Yeah, I've made the same point before. BC with OG XBox was a priority in the early 360 days, when they still saw PS as more of a threat. But with their 1-year headstart and the PS3 launching like a wet fart, they felt comfortable enough to drop it, only getting back into it when the XBO fell way behind the PS4.
BC doesn't really move the sales needle much -- didn't help the PS3 escape last place, and it didn't help the Xbox One come out of last place either.
You're absolutely right on this point. I think the kind of gamers who are passionate enough to post in online forums/subreddits/etc. have a tendency to overestimate their impact on the industry as a whole. We assume that features that are important to us are important to everyone. But if the majority of gamers cared about BC as much as we do, there would be sales numbers to back that up.
BotW was a shot in the arm the series desperately needed. ... Yeah, I'd love for the next game to be vastly smaller, but I have a feeling that won't be the case.
I hope that since ALBW proved that there's still a place for classic top-down style Zelda, I hope Nintendo realizes that BOTW-style games don't have to actually replace OOT-style games. I would love for them to cycle through all 3 styles.
I still say durability was extremely important the way the game was designed, in order to make rewards feel like actual rewards. Explore an area thoroughly and find a giant flaming sword, etc.
It's an open world all fully designed at the start of the game, all the weapons lie where they are.
If weapons didn't break and instead they had systems where weapons had ever-increasing stats, you might stumble into a high level area and find an amazing sword...and instantly invalidate 80% of the rewards of exploring the rest of the game. "Oh, a flaming sword! But it's 30 damage worse than what I already got. Throw it in the trash."
In fact games like Skyrim have this exact problem.
Zelda's weapons already have variable stats, but you have to keep replacing them and finding the same ones again, which means the same sword can be an adequate reward repeatedly throughout the game.
I still say durability was extremely important the way the game was designed, in order to make rewards feel like actual rewards. Explore an area thoroughly and find a giant flaming sword, etc.
It's an open world all fully designed at the start of the game, all the weapons lie where they are.
If weapons didn't break and instead they had systems where weapons had ever-increasing stats, you might stumble into a high level area and find an amazing sword...and instantly invalidate 80% of the rewards of exploring the rest of the game. "Oh, a flaming sword! But it's 30 damage worse than what I already got. Throw it in the trash."
In fact games like Skyrim have this exact problem.
Zelda's weapons already have variable stats, but you have to keep replacing them and finding the same ones again, which means the same sword can be an adequate reward repeatedly throughout the game.
I also think the weapon durability was an interesting solution to how combat quickly becomes unchallenging or unfun in your typical open world game. You were generally using weapons you'd taken off your kills, which preventing you from just blasting through them with your end game uber-weapon. You had to manage how much you wanted to burn through the weapons you brought to the fight versus making due with what you found there.
I'm not sure it's the optimal solution to the problem. But I enjoyed it more than the often times wonky and unfun scaling that frequently is deployed. And I enjoyed it more than nothing at all.
Oh yeah that's true too, you really had to make use of everything at your disposal. Had to learn to use spears and heavy weapons in addition to swords.
Hell, the central mechanic of BotW is experimentation. In most moments, the game encourages you to experiment and see what you can pull off on enemies, animals, the environment, yourself, etc. The weapon mechanic is a central part of that.
I think you could design an equally rewarding system by removing durability, drastically lowering the sheer number of weapons, but put a greater emphasis on weapon types and matchups. The ol' FE weapon triangle as it were. Or maybe have throwaway weak weapons that can break, but the top tier stuff is unbreakable. Either way, design a system where in one situation I'll want to use a sword, in another a spear, ect. I'm still incentivised to change up my weapons and not stagnate on just one, but that reason isn't because it fuckin' broke after 10 swings. If you're worried people are going to make a run for the ultimates at the start of a new game and break progression... well fuck em. Gamers are gonna break any systems you put in place, they know what they're in for if they do. Hell, Skyrim seems to do just fine with such a system. And if you're genuinely worried that an "honest" player is going to accidentally stumble on a weapon and kill their difficulty curve, then that's why you have the weapon triangle system, so that having the Lance of Longinus doesn't mean shit when everybody in your immediate way are carrying axes.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I think you could design an equally rewarding system by removing durability, drastically lowering the sheer number of weapons, but put a greater emphasis on weapon types and matchups. The ol' FE weapon triangle as it were. Or maybe have throwaway weak weapons that can break, but the top tier stuff is unbreakable. Either way, design a system where in one situation I'll want to use a sword, in another a spear, ect. I'm still incentivised to change up my weapons and not stagnate on just one, but that reason isn't because it fuckin' broke after 10 swings. If you're worried people are going to make a run for the ultimates at the start of a new game and break progression... well fuck em. Gamers are gonna break any systems you put in place, they know what they're in for if they do. Hell, Skyrim seems to do just fine with such a system. And if you're genuinely worried that an "honest" player is going to accidentally stumble on a weapon and kill their difficulty curve, then that's why you have the weapon triangle system, so that having the Lance of Longinus doesn't mean shit when everybody in your immediate way are carrying axes.
We may see a more refined version closer to what you propose. But end game weapons point of fact did have better durability. Also there was the Master Sword which had pretty great durability too and never totally broke. It just needed to recharge. Also, different weapon types were already better against different enemies. Sometimes explicitly by the numbers (like hammers versus the Taloses), but other types because the enemies move sets seemed especially vulnerable to them. I found spears especially useful against the lizards.
So I mean, most of what you are saying was already in the game.
But also, I don't think there is any getting around the fact that we gamers are sometimes our own worst enemy when it comes to fun. If the optimal thing to do in the game ruins the fun... we'll still do it obsessively and then complain loudly that the game "made" us do it. A lot of us are just weird like that.
I think you could design an equally rewarding system by removing durability, drastically lowering the sheer number of weapons, but put a greater emphasis on weapon types and matchups. The ol' FE weapon triangle as it were. Or maybe have throwaway weak weapons that can break, but the top tier stuff is unbreakable. Either way, design a system where in one situation I'll want to use a sword, in another a spear, ect. I'm still incentivised to change up my weapons and not stagnate on just one, but that reason isn't because it fuckin' broke after 10 swings. If you're worried people are going to make a run for the ultimates at the start of a new game and break progression... well fuck em. Gamers are gonna break any systems you put in place, they know what they're in for if they do. Hell, Skyrim seems to do just fine with such a system. And if you're genuinely worried that an "honest" player is going to accidentally stumble on a weapon and kill their difficulty curve, then that's why you have the weapon triangle system, so that having the Lance of Longinus doesn't mean shit when everybody in your immediate way are carrying axes.
Expounding on this a bit, Yakuza 0 has a number of weapons in addition to face punching with a few having unlimited durability while the vast majority have limited durability but significantly more power. That gives plenty of inventive to use the ones that can wear out even if you have an unbreakable weapon. Weapons can be repaired in that game partially because they're way more rare than in BotW, but I could see a system where your safe weapons are weaker so you're encouraged to use the stronger weapons but will still have the weaker options as a fallback working in Zelda.
I think you could design an equally rewarding system by removing durability, drastically lowering the sheer number of weapons, but put a greater emphasis on weapon types and matchups. The ol' FE weapon triangle as it were. Or maybe have throwaway weak weapons that can break, but the top tier stuff is unbreakable. Either way, design a system where in one situation I'll want to use a sword, in another a spear, ect. I'm still incentivised to change up my weapons and not stagnate on just one, but that reason isn't because it fuckin' broke after 10 swings. If you're worried people are going to make a run for the ultimates at the start of a new game and break progression... well fuck em. Gamers are gonna break any systems you put in place, they know what they're in for if they do. Hell, Skyrim seems to do just fine with such a system. And if you're genuinely worried that an "honest" player is going to accidentally stumble on a weapon and kill their difficulty curve, then that's why you have the weapon triangle system, so that having the Lance of Longinus doesn't mean shit when everybody in your immediate way are carrying axes.
We may see a more refined version closer to what you propose. But end game weapons point of fact did have better durability. Also there was the Master Sword which had pretty great durability too and never totally broke. It just needed to recharge. Also, different weapon types were already better against different enemies. Sometimes explicitly by the numbers (like hammers versus the Taloses), but other types because the enemies move sets seemed especially vulnerable to them. I found spears especially useful against the lizards.
So I mean, most of what you are saying was already in the game.
But also, I don't think there is any getting around the fact that we gamers are sometimes our own worst enemy when it comes to fun. If the optimal thing to do in the game ruins the fun... we'll still do it obsessively and then complain loudly that the game "made" us do it. A lot of us are just weird like that.
The big issue with the better weapons having better durability is the ol' megalixir conundrum. "I'm not gonna waste my good shit on this, gotta save it for when I really need it". Sadly even the Master sword fell into this trap with its timed durability. Where it earned its new nickname of "Sword of Timber's Bane" or "Sword that mines the pebbles", whichever you prefer.
I do absolutely agree that we players are our own worst enemy. It's easy enough to say there are options, or to just do X. But generally speaking we'll always take the path of least resistance, even when we know we shouldn't.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
I think the lesson might be that gamers would rather be bored by a broken difficulty curve than have anything taken away from us ever for any reason.
I mean, ideally you wouldn't have either. But, personally, I haven't seen a satisfactory solution that kept an open world game interesting to me as long as Breath of the Wild was.
I thought The Tetris Company had a lock on the rights to that? Even with the addition of pieces that are not just arrangements of 4 squares, that the majority are is enough to qualify as infringement?
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
I don't know if this is an open world game problem or a weapon durability problem, but the BotW formula just didn't work for me. Rather than using and breaking a cool weapon to get more cool weapons and loot that might break I decided combat was pointless and avoided it at all cost. I was also very bored by the world so didn't get much out of exploring.
I will say I really enjoyed the memory cut scenes and Ganon's castle itself was pretty cool, but otherwise I found little enjoyment. I think the game as a whole just wasn't for me and I wish I could have had the enjoyment with it others here have had. Thankfully though Odyssey was everything I hoped for and more.
I thought The Tetris Company had a lock on the rights to that? Even with the addition of pieces that are not just arrangements of 4 squares, that the majority are is enough to qualify as infringement?
Mechanics aren't subject to IP protection, so it's a gray area
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing. (Plus mining/cooking materials scattered around so you can buy weapons/armor... Searching for hidden caves with loot... etc)
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing. (Plus mining/cooking materials scattered around so you can buy weapons/armor... Searching for hidden caves with loot... etc)
If any LoZ is empty its Skyward Sword.
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
Any speculation about when the next Direct is happening? I want to know what the 2019 NESFlix games will be and what new fun awaits the first 3-6 months of 2019.
There's always speculation happening. My stance is to not trust any of it until Nintendo's actually confirmed it and not before.
Anyways, people suspect there's going to be a Direct in January, because there often is.
I've been itching for more Fire Emblem: Three Houses news since E3.
I also hope at least one of Bayonetta 3 or Metroid Prime 4 comes out this year.
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing. (Plus mining/cooking materials scattered around so you can buy weapons/armor... Searching for hidden caves with loot... etc)
Finding Korok seeds would be cool if the only use I've found for them so far wasn't just increasing my stash space. Not much of a tempting carrot for me on that particular stick. And cooking materials, too. Getting to make different types of food? Eh.
Shrines are fine, but the end result is just getting that watered down sense of progression I mentioned in the form of stamina meter and heart containers. So far there is nothing else cool to find in them.
But alas, I realize this game is about the journey and not the destination. I just wish the journey wasn't so hollow.
I thought The Tetris Company had a lock on the rights to that? Even with the addition of pieces that are not just arrangements of 4 squares, that the majority are is enough to qualify as infringement?
Mechanics aren't subject to IP protection, so it's a gray area
Yeah, they further avoid copyright by also calling them Tetraminos (Instead of the official misspelling Tetriminos) which is funny. I'm also making a Tetris clone, but it'll have a much deeper paint job than this. This is literally Tetris with additional simpler pieces.
Edit - Like, by definition a Tetromino is Geometric shape composed of 4 blocks, you have shapes in your game called Tetraminos that aren't even Tetrominos... :mad:
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing. (Plus mining/cooking materials scattered around so you can buy weapons/armor... Searching for hidden caves with loot... etc)
Finding Korok seeds would be cool if the only use I've found for them so far wasn't just increasing my stash space. Not much of a tempting carrot for me on that particular stick. And cooking materials, too. Getting to make different types of food? Eh.
Shrines are fine, but the end result is just getting that watered down sense of progression I mentioned in the form of stamina meter and heart containers. So far there is nothing else cool to find in them.
But alas, I realize this game is about the journey and not the destination. I just wish the journey wasn't so hollow.
Well it's more the exploration. If you went from guardian to guardian it wouldn't be very fun. Finding the nooks and crannies of things hidden (weapon caches come to mind, which you can then pin on your map and return later for the cool stuff). Stash size is important because it allows you to carry varying amounts of weapons (wooden for rain/thunderstorms, steel for fire monsters, pikes for long reach, etc). Cooking was primarily for money for me so I could upgrade my armors using the Fairy Fountains, which give you different set bonuses that allow you to do more things.
Just offering a different perspective on it. It's got many layers to the game. It may look like there's nothing there, but every time you peel at it there's more stuff buried beneath it.
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing. (Plus mining/cooking materials scattered around so you can buy weapons/armor... Searching for hidden caves with loot... etc)
Finding Korok seeds would be cool if the only use I've found for them so far wasn't just increasing my stash space. Not much of a tempting carrot for me on that particular stick. And cooking materials, too. Getting to make different types of food? Eh.
Shrines are fine, but the end result is just getting that watered down sense of progression I mentioned in the form of stamina meter and heart containers. So far there is nothing else cool to find in them.
But alas, I realize this game is about the journey and not the destination. I just wish the journey wasn't so hollow.
Well it's more the exploration. If you went from guardian to guardian it wouldn't be very fun. Finding the nooks and crannies of things hidden (weapon caches come to mind, which you can then pin on your map and return later for the cool stuff). Stash size is important because it allows you to carry varying amounts of weapons (wooden for rain/thunderstorms, steel for fire monsters, pikes for long reach, etc). Cooking was primarily for money for me so I could upgrade my armors using the Fairy Fountains, which give you different set bonuses that allow you to do more things.
Just offering a different perspective on it. It's got many layers to the game. It may look like there's nothing there, but every time you peel at it there's more stuff buried beneath it.
Yeah, I'm sure as things unfold there is a lot there. I just lack the motivation to unfold them. Whether that's my fault or the game's... well, with as many people who love the game I'll wager its mine.
But it's cool. I'm not trying to argue that the game is bad or muck up the thread with mud slinging at a beloved title, just that I was disappointed.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
It sounds like the feeling of progression is more important to you than the gameplay, at least in the case of this game. For me, the gameplay I find within the shrines is the real reward for finding them, rather than the actual in-game rewards for completing them.
I think I'd be more okay with the open world aspect of Breath if the world didn't feel so... empty. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff to see as you get to it, but the getting to it is so very tedious. Just so much running in the middle of nowhere with very little to see or do. Half the time I run into someone it's just some dude selling vegetables.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing. (Plus mining/cooking materials scattered around so you can buy weapons/armor... Searching for hidden caves with loot... etc)
Finding Korok seeds would be cool if the only use I've found for them so far wasn't just increasing my stash space. Not much of a tempting carrot for me on that particular stick. And cooking materials, too. Getting to make different types of food? Eh.
Shrines are fine, but the end result is just getting that watered down sense of progression I mentioned in the form of stamina meter and heart containers. So far there is nothing else cool to find in them.
But alas, I realize this game is about the journey and not the destination. I just wish the journey wasn't so hollow.
Well it's more the exploration. If you went from guardian to guardian it wouldn't be very fun. Finding the nooks and crannies of things hidden (weapon caches come to mind, which you can then pin on your map and return later for the cool stuff). Stash size is important because it allows you to carry varying amounts of weapons (wooden for rain/thunderstorms, steel for fire monsters, pikes for long reach, etc). Cooking was primarily for money for me so I could upgrade my armors using the Fairy Fountains, which give you different set bonuses that allow you to do more things.
Just offering a different perspective on it. It's got many layers to the game. It may look like there's nothing there, but every time you peel at it there's more stuff buried beneath it.
Yeah, I'm sure as things unfold there is a lot there. I just lack the motivation to unfold them. Whether that's my fault or the game's... well, with as many people who love the game I'll wager its mine.
But it's cool. I'm not trying to argue that the game is bad or muck up the thread with mud slinging at a beloved title, just that I was disappointed.
Nah it's fine. The gameplay loop is vastly different from any other Zelda game. So a long-time Zelda fan isn't guaranteed to enjoy this one. I was just hoping to provide a way for you to look at it differently from other Zeldas so that you might enjoy it further, not saying your opinion on it is wrong in any way!
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
For me BotW is easily my favorite Zelda game (with Majora's Mask a very close second) yet I probably have more gripes with BotW then I do with most any other Zelda game. Funny that.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
It sounds like the feeling of progression is more important to you than the gameplay, at least in the case of this game. For me, the gameplay I find within the shrines is the real reward for finding them, rather than the actual in-game rewards for completing them.
Maybe. I'm guessing some are pretty challenging. The ones I've found so far have been straight forward and easy to solve, though. This is after stumbling across a giant rock creature, a centaur who one shot me when he looked at me, and a giant sleeping bokoblin. Therefore, it would seem the game doesn't have progressively more difficult zones and so it felt like the shrines were just kinda simple and lackluster as I couldn't necessarily chalk it up to "well, these are just the 'beginner' shrines".
It's great that Nintendo is hopping on board the system crossplay train. SMITE and Paladins are going to be full crossplay between XBL, Nintendo, and PC soon (but no PS4 ).
People were making arguments that Sony didn't need to allow crossplay the way Microsoft does because they have the dominant marketshare, but this wouldn't explain Nintendo as I'm sure they're doing alright with the money the Switch is printing for them.
It's also interesting since Nintendo's online features are heavily lambasted (and with good reason), but hey, this is certainly cool.
Have you tried other joycons or a pro controller? Sync your friend's joycons with your Switch and see if you don't have any trouble then. You might not have to send your whole Switch in if you can confirm it's just your joycons.
Sorry, I should have included some more details.
We tried the following combos:
My Joy-Cons on my System (disconnecting)
Friend's Joy-Cons on my System (disconnecting)
Pro Controller on my System (no problems)
My Joy-Cons on friend's System (no problems)
Friend's Joy-Cons on friend's System (no problems)
We only tried it docked, but I don't think it's the dock since we swapped the actual Switch tablet out.
It works ok if I'm careful to hold the Joy-Cons level with the system and sit a bit closer than usual, but I think we ruled out it being the Joy-Cons having a problem.
Figured i got Megaman legacy collection and Megaman X legacy collection i might as well pick up Megaman 11 but i'm putting it on the shelf until i finish the legacy collection. (Yellow boss in 1 was a nightmare gosh.)
Also picked up the new Monster boy game and can't wait to dig into that
I should get around to playing Bayonetta so I can pick up Bayonetta 2. The games look fascinatingly wacky.
I prefer 'camp', but yes, it is very wacky.
Since this is semi on-topic now...would you also consider it "hard"?
I bought Bayo 1/2 for the first time with that $30-for-each deal and got stuck dying repeatedly at some random part on the first one not too long after a tough boss. Just wondering if that's normal or I am totally missing something. I quit and move on from plenty of hard games after scratching my interest but didn't think Bayonetta was supposedly to be especially challenging.
It's great that Nintendo is hopping on board the system crossplay train. SMITE and Paladins are going to be full crossplay between XBL, Nintendo, and PC soon (but no PS4 ).
People were making arguments that Sony didn't need to allow crossplay the way Microsoft does because they have the dominant marketshare, but this wouldn't explain Nintendo as I'm sure they're doing alright with the money the Switch is printing for them.
It's also interesting since Nintendo's online features are heavily lambasted (and with good reason), but hey, this is certainly cool.
These games supplement the terrible, horrible, no-good NSO with actual functioning in-game systems like messaging and voice chat. It brings in the more online-social gamer that otherwise will find little on the system.
Plus you got many vets in these games that will play on Switch when they want something portable. So you can poach time and sales from the existing game audience. Maybe even get them to buy a Switch just to play their favorite online game portably and check out some other Switch games at some point.
And you don't say no to a cut of Fortnite, ever. Even Sony is reversing course on that one game.
Figured i got Megaman legacy collection and Megaman X legacy collection i might as well pick up Megaman 11 but i'm putting it on the shelf until i finish the legacy collection. (Yellow boss in 1 was a nightmare gosh.)
Also picked up the new Monster boy game and can't wait to dig into that
1) I think I need to get a new right Joycon at some point - intermittently, the analog stick drifts downward (not actually physically, but the system interprets downward analog stick motion). Recalibrating doesn't work. Sometimes disconnecting it and reconnecting it fixes it. Sometimes just shutting the Switch off completely and then turning it back on fixes it. It seems to crop up every few weeks. I've had it since launch; I'm assuming Nintendo won't fix it for me at this point.
2) I just finished a run of Rogue Legacy for the first time! I'm in NG+ now! Whee!
1) I think I need to get a new right Joycon at some point - intermittently, the analog stick drifts downward (not actually physically, but the system interprets downward analog stick motion). Recalibrating doesn't work. Sometimes disconnecting it and reconnecting it fixes it. Sometimes just shutting the Switch off completely and then turning it back on fixes it. It seems to crop up every few weeks. I've had it since launch; I'm assuming Nintendo won't fix it for me at this point.
2) I just finished a run of Rogue Legacy for the first time! I'm in NG+ now! Whee!
3) It's 2019.WHERE IS MY TERRARIA?!?!?
Look at the joycon stick and you'll notice a little plastic hat covering that can be flipped up with a toothpick. Try either blowing in it with some canned air, or take a qtip soaked in rubbing alcohol and just swirl it around in there. That worked for me, just some dirt or dust that snuck in.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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You're absolutely right on this point. I think the kind of gamers who are passionate enough to post in online forums/subreddits/etc. have a tendency to overestimate their impact on the industry as a whole. We assume that features that are important to us are important to everyone. But if the majority of gamers cared about BC as much as we do, there would be sales numbers to back that up.
I hope that since ALBW proved that there's still a place for classic top-down style Zelda, I hope Nintendo realizes that BOTW-style games don't have to actually replace OOT-style games. I would love for them to cycle through all 3 styles.
It's an open world all fully designed at the start of the game, all the weapons lie where they are.
If weapons didn't break and instead they had systems where weapons had ever-increasing stats, you might stumble into a high level area and find an amazing sword...and instantly invalidate 80% of the rewards of exploring the rest of the game. "Oh, a flaming sword! But it's 30 damage worse than what I already got. Throw it in the trash."
In fact games like Skyrim have this exact problem.
Zelda's weapons already have variable stats, but you have to keep replacing them and finding the same ones again, which means the same sword can be an adequate reward repeatedly throughout the game.
I absolutely loved BotW but I missed tradtional dungeons. That's really the only thing I would want from a sequel.
The sale straddles Switch and 3DS I think, that confused me too. I don't think any are ported to Switch.
I also think the weapon durability was an interesting solution to how combat quickly becomes unchallenging or unfun in your typical open world game. You were generally using weapons you'd taken off your kills, which preventing you from just blasting through them with your end game uber-weapon. You had to manage how much you wanted to burn through the weapons you brought to the fight versus making due with what you found there.
I'm not sure it's the optimal solution to the problem. But I enjoyed it more than the often times wonky and unfun scaling that frequently is deployed. And I enjoyed it more than nothing at all.
The Japanese release might even have English options if you can't wait.
We may see a more refined version closer to what you propose. But end game weapons point of fact did have better durability. Also there was the Master Sword which had pretty great durability too and never totally broke. It just needed to recharge. Also, different weapon types were already better against different enemies. Sometimes explicitly by the numbers (like hammers versus the Taloses), but other types because the enemies move sets seemed especially vulnerable to them. I found spears especially useful against the lizards.
So I mean, most of what you are saying was already in the game.
But also, I don't think there is any getting around the fact that we gamers are sometimes our own worst enemy when it comes to fun. If the optimal thing to do in the game ruins the fun... we'll still do it obsessively and then complain loudly that the game "made" us do it. A lot of us are just weird like that.
Expounding on this a bit, Yakuza 0 has a number of weapons in addition to face punching with a few having unlimited durability while the vast majority have limited durability but significantly more power. That gives plenty of inventive to use the ones that can wear out even if you have an unbreakable weapon. Weapons can be repaired in that game partially because they're way more rare than in BotW, but I could see a system where your safe weapons are weaker so you're encouraged to use the stronger weapons but will still have the weaker options as a fallback working in Zelda.
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The big issue with the better weapons having better durability is the ol' megalixir conundrum. "I'm not gonna waste my good shit on this, gotta save it for when I really need it". Sadly even the Master sword fell into this trap with its timed durability. Where it earned its new nickname of "Sword of Timber's Bane" or "Sword that mines the pebbles", whichever you prefer.
I do absolutely agree that we players are our own worst enemy. It's easy enough to say there are options, or to just do X. But generally speaking we'll always take the path of least resistance, even when we know we shouldn't.
I mean, ideally you wouldn't have either. But, personally, I haven't seen a satisfactory solution that kept an open world game interesting to me as long as Breath of the Wild was.
The reward for exploration also feels very frivolous to me. I'm assuming all of my abilities are handed to me from the start - no cool new ones to look forward to. Therefore, my only course of leveling up is through more heart containers and stamina meter. And it's not like I'm gonna find some cool weapon that I'll cherish because it's just gonna break, so no real sense of progression there either.
The idea of potentially finding an armor set with set bonuses is pretty cool, I guess.
It's my fault for expecting a different style of game before going in and I should've tempered expectations. I know there is a magical and amazing game here, but it just wasn't made for me, and that's cool. I'm still very much in love with Smash and I can't wait for the other two games to get here (which I've played at a friend's house and know I enjoy them).
If the eventual Metroid game doesn't live up to expectations, though, I'll probably spend a week curled up and bawling in the corner of my game room.
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I will say I really enjoyed the memory cut scenes and Ganon's castle itself was pretty cool, but otherwise I found little enjoyment. I think the game as a whole just wasn't for me and I wish I could have had the enjoyment with it others here have had. Thankfully though Odyssey was everything I hoped for and more.
Mechanics aren't subject to IP protection, so it's a gray area
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Ah, if you think it's too empty then you're not really looking for the right things. Korok seeds and Shrines litter EVERYWHERE from point A to point B. I think that's what you're missing.
If any LoZ is empty its Skyward Sword.
I've been itching for more Fire Emblem: Three Houses news since E3.
I also hope at least one of Bayonetta 3 or Metroid Prime 4 comes out this year.
Finding Korok seeds would be cool if the only use I've found for them so far wasn't just increasing my stash space. Not much of a tempting carrot for me on that particular stick. And cooking materials, too. Getting to make different types of food? Eh.
Shrines are fine, but the end result is just getting that watered down sense of progression I mentioned in the form of stamina meter and heart containers. So far there is nothing else cool to find in them.
But alas, I realize this game is about the journey and not the destination. I just wish the journey wasn't so hollow.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Yeah, they further avoid copyright by also calling them Tetraminos (Instead of the official misspelling Tetriminos) which is funny. I'm also making a Tetris clone, but it'll have a much deeper paint job than this. This is literally Tetris with additional simpler pieces.
Edit - Like, by definition a Tetromino is Geometric shape composed of 4 blocks, you have shapes in your game called Tetraminos that aren't even Tetrominos... :mad:
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Well it's more the exploration. If you went from guardian to guardian it wouldn't be very fun. Finding the nooks and crannies of things hidden (weapon caches come to mind, which you can then pin on your map and return later for the cool stuff). Stash size is important because it allows you to carry varying amounts of weapons (wooden for rain/thunderstorms, steel for fire monsters, pikes for long reach, etc). Cooking was primarily for money for me so I could upgrade my armors using the Fairy Fountains, which give you different set bonuses that allow you to do more things.
Just offering a different perspective on it. It's got many layers to the game. It may look like there's nothing there, but every time you peel at it there's more stuff buried beneath it.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Yeah, I'm sure as things unfold there is a lot there. I just lack the motivation to unfold them. Whether that's my fault or the game's... well, with as many people who love the game I'll wager its mine.
But it's cool. I'm not trying to argue that the game is bad or muck up the thread with mud slinging at a beloved title, just that I was disappointed.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
It sounds like the feeling of progression is more important to you than the gameplay, at least in the case of this game. For me, the gameplay I find within the shrines is the real reward for finding them, rather than the actual in-game rewards for completing them.
Nah it's fine. The gameplay loop is vastly different from any other Zelda game. So a long-time Zelda fan isn't guaranteed to enjoy this one. I was just hoping to provide a way for you to look at it differently from other Zeldas so that you might enjoy it further, not saying your opinion on it is wrong in any way!
Maybe. I'm guessing some are pretty challenging. The ones I've found so far have been straight forward and easy to solve, though. This is after stumbling across a giant rock creature, a centaur who one shot me when he looked at me, and a giant sleeping bokoblin. Therefore, it would seem the game doesn't have progressively more difficult zones and so it felt like the shrines were just kinda simple and lackluster as I couldn't necessarily chalk it up to "well, these are just the 'beginner' shrines".
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
People were making arguments that Sony didn't need to allow crossplay the way Microsoft does because they have the dominant marketshare, but this wouldn't explain Nintendo as I'm sure they're doing alright with the money the Switch is printing for them.
It's also interesting since Nintendo's online features are heavily lambasted (and with good reason), but hey, this is certainly cool.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
I prefer 'camp', but yes, it is very wacky.
Sorry, I should have included some more details.
We tried the following combos:
My Joy-Cons on my System (disconnecting)
Friend's Joy-Cons on my System (disconnecting)
Pro Controller on my System (no problems)
My Joy-Cons on friend's System (no problems)
Friend's Joy-Cons on friend's System (no problems)
We only tried it docked, but I don't think it's the dock since we swapped the actual Switch tablet out.
It works ok if I'm careful to hold the Joy-Cons level with the system and sit a bit closer than usual, but I think we ruled out it being the Joy-Cons having a problem.
Also picked up the new Monster boy game and can't wait to dig into that
Since this is semi on-topic now...would you also consider it "hard"?
I bought Bayo 1/2 for the first time with that $30-for-each deal and got stuck dying repeatedly at some random part on the first one not too long after a tough boss. Just wondering if that's normal or I am totally missing something. I quit and move on from plenty of hard games after scratching my interest but didn't think Bayonetta was supposedly to be especially challenging.
These games supplement the terrible, horrible, no-good NSO with actual functioning in-game systems like messaging and voice chat. It brings in the more online-social gamer that otherwise will find little on the system.
Plus you got many vets in these games that will play on Switch when they want something portable. So you can poach time and sales from the existing game audience. Maybe even get them to buy a Switch just to play their favorite online game portably and check out some other Switch games at some point.
And you don't say no to a cut of Fortnite, ever. Even Sony is reversing course on that one game.
11 is so good.
1) I think I need to get a new right Joycon at some point - intermittently, the analog stick drifts downward (not actually physically, but the system interprets downward analog stick motion). Recalibrating doesn't work. Sometimes disconnecting it and reconnecting it fixes it. Sometimes just shutting the Switch off completely and then turning it back on fixes it. It seems to crop up every few weeks. I've had it since launch; I'm assuming Nintendo won't fix it for me at this point.
2) I just finished a run of Rogue Legacy for the first time! I'm in NG+ now! Whee!
3) It's 2019. WHERE IS MY TERRARIA?!?!?
Look at the joycon stick and you'll notice a little plastic hat covering that can be flipped up with a toothpick. Try either blowing in it with some canned air, or take a qtip soaked in rubbing alcohol and just swirl it around in there. That worked for me, just some dirt or dust that snuck in.