Hm. I've been reading his Thor since the beginning, and I don't think I've seen obviously-poor treatment of women in there, but also I've been ignorant about this kind of thing plenty of times in the past, even when it was in front of my face and I should have known better, so it's very possible that I overlooked something. He definitely writes a bunch of manly-men characters, so I wouldn't be surprised if his depiction of women ain't stellar.
The Hulk-but-a-girl thing, did he do that? I thought that came out of that brief post-Civil War II Hulk series that starred Jen, and some people were annoyed by how it undid the thing that was cool and unique about Jen's relationship with her Hulkiness, and some people said it was actually a good exploration of dealing with trauma. I haven't read it myself, so I have no idea how Jen was characterized in there; I went into Aaron's Avengers assuming that this was how Jen came out of her most recent series. Was that assumption incorrect?
If you don't like him that's fine but he has a pretty good track record with writing women, IMO?
He created Jane Foster Thor and wrote her for years, made Kitty Pryde headmaster of the X-Men and a team leader for the first time, created Roz Solomon who rules and has been a signficant supporting MU character for years, and new X-Men like Shark Girl and put a big focus on Idie .
The only kinda shitty thing that comes to mind is how Thor Odinson reclaimed the mantle but even then the book has made it clear Jane is going to be Thor again soon.
If you don't like him that's fine but he has a pretty good track record with writing women, IMO?
He created Jane Foster Thor and wrote her for years, made Kitty Pryde headmaster of the X-Men and a team leader for the first time, created Roz Solomon who rules and has been a signficant supporting MU character for years, and new X-Men like Shark Girl and put a big focus on Idie .
The only kinda shitty thing that comes to mind is how Thor Odinson reclaimed the mantle but even then the book has made it clear Jane is going to be Thor again soon.
Spoilery Jane Foster question
I thought she died? What series has she resurrected in?
If you don't like him that's fine but he has a pretty good track record with writing women, IMO?
He created Jane Foster Thor and wrote her for years, made Kitty Pryde headmaster of the X-Men and a team leader for the first time, created Roz Solomon who rules and has been a signficant supporting MU character for years, and new X-Men like Shark Girl and put a big focus on Idie .
The only kinda shitty thing that comes to mind is how Thor Odinson reclaimed the mantle but even then the book has made it clear Jane is going to be Thor again soon.
Spoilery Jane Foster question
I thought she died? What series has she resurrected in?
She died for like half an issue but Thor and Odin brought her back. The end of her run just had her destroy Mjolnir
Speaking of She-Hulk I’m reminded of an old story beat I didn’t agree with but looking back on, would actually be pretty interesting to explore.
I think a few years back She-Hulk had an arc where Jen was always She-Hulk 24/7. My qualm was stupid at the time, “ Well if she’s She-Hulk 24/7 then that doesn’t bode well for Jen Walter’s psyche”.
Which was DUMB in hindsight. It came from more of my fondness of regular Jen Walters as a character and how I appreciate her continued existence, from a comic book fan standpoint.
But is totally pig-headed from like, an actual person standpoint. I mean lets be real if given the choice you would be wrong not to be She-Hulk 100% of the time in any situation.
Basically what I’m saying is make She-Hulk an exploration of identity you cowards(or continue doing so that would be neat).
If you don't like him that's fine but he has a pretty good track record with writing women, IMO?
He created Jane Foster Thor and wrote her for years, made Kitty Pryde headmaster of the X-Men and a team leader for the first time, created Roz Solomon who rules and has been a signficant supporting MU character for years, and new X-Men like Shark Girl and put a big focus on Idie .
The only kinda shitty thing that comes to mind is how Thor Odinson reclaimed the mantle but even then the book has made it clear Jane is going to be Thor again soon.
There's also the new Caretaker, Sara, he introduced in his Ghost Rider run.
And Melita Garner, the love interest for Logan he created in his Wolverine work, was a good character.
Die continues to be fuckin fantastic and an incredible look at how folks interact with fictional worlds
The party, trapped once more in the fantasy world they were stuck in as teenagers are faced with a decision: follow the path they took last time through largely safe and civilized lands or across a raging front of eternal war.
When they reach the border of the calmer lands, they are greeted by a relic from their past adventures: a knight NPC who was smitten with one of the party, Ash. She used her magic to make his oath not to rest until he saw her face once more binding, as a little joke and flirtation.
He died three years after they met. His eyes rotted three years after that. He was wandered the world, rotting and decaying, waiting for her return. All because of a joke they played on an NPC.
His sight is magically restored by another party member, and he collapses into a pile of fetid gore ontop of Ash.
The party ask themselves the question again: would they rather cross a land of eternal war, that has not seen peace in centuries, or travel through the lands they galavanted through as reckless teenagers, which they thought of as a playground with no consequences.
They decide endless war sounds like a better option.
Speaking of She-Hulk I’m reminded of an old story beat I didn’t agree with but looking back on, would actually be pretty interesting to explore.
I think a few years back She-Hulk had an arc where Jen was always She-Hulk 24/7. My qualm was stupid at the time, “ Well if she’s She-Hulk 24/7 then that doesn’t bode well for Jen Walter’s psyche”.
Which was DUMB in hindsight. It came from more of my fondness of regular Jen Walters as a character and how I appreciate her continued existence, from a comic book fan standpoint.
But is totally pig-headed from like, an actual person standpoint. I mean lets be real if given the choice you would be wrong not to be She-Hulk 100% of the time in any situation.
Basically what I’m saying is make She-Hulk an exploration of identity you cowards(or continue doing so that would be neat).
They've done that story in recent books, especially the focus on whether it is mentally healthy for Jen to completely abandon her identity to become She-Hulk all the time.
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
Captain Marvel is set in the 90s, right? Nick Fury says SHIELD, but what about the big joke in Iron Man 1 where Coulson kept trying to introduce it by the full name?
I guess it's a little nitpicky, but it's something I noticed.
That's solved by "Coulson's a dork"
He's intentionally giving a hard to remember name so that it's hard to remember where he's actually from
+6
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I only read the first issue of Die as a single and will be switching to trade, as is my custom, but god that sounds cool as hell
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited January 2019
No, it's different Hulk but a girl thing. The other one was also not great. And I thought the idea of Jane Foster as wielder of Mjolnir was better than the execution, and Kitty Pryde as headmaster was also a bad idea.
Like, I don't like things. I've seen them. I haven't necessarily read the whole run, but I've seen enough to know they aren't for me.
No, it's different Hulk but a girl thing. The other one was also not great. And I thought the idea of Jane Foster as wielder of Mjolnir was better than the execution, and Kitty Pryde as headmaster was also a bad idea.
Like, I don't like things. I've seen them. I haven't necessarily read the whole run, but I've seen enough to know they aren't for me.
Okay but you can't say "he doesn't treat women well" and then when presented with a bunch of examples where thats not the case just go "but I didn't like those so they don't count as good treatment of women"
No, it's different Hulk but a girl thing. The other one was also not great. And I thought the idea of Jane Foster as wielder of Mjolnir was better than the execution, and Kitty Pryde as headmaster was also a bad idea.
Like, I don't like things. I've seen them. I haven't necessarily read the whole run, but I've seen enough to know they aren't for me.
How so?
The Jen solo book that introduced the status quo of her having an emotionally trigged bestial Hulk led directly into Avengers.
The only real difference is that she is green again instead of grey.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
No, it's different Hulk but a girl thing. The other one was also not great. And I thought the idea of Jane Foster as wielder of Mjolnir was better than the execution, and Kitty Pryde as headmaster was also a bad idea.
Like, I don't like things. I've seen them. I haven't necessarily read the whole run, but I've seen enough to know they aren't for me.
Okay but you can't say "he doesn't treat women well" and then when presented with a bunch of examples where thats not the case just go "but I didn't like those so they don't count as good treatment of women"
I think how he treats Storm and Jean Grey, for example, dwarfs anything he did with Kitty Pryde, for example of the X-Men stuff.
He didn't ever really write Jean Grey? He wrote her as a part of the background cast in WatXM when they were briefly at the school and during Battle of the Atom but thats it.
And as for Storm I don't really know what issue you would have with how she was handled in his run? She was senior faculty, part of the main team, briefly rekindled her romance with Logan and then took over as Co-Headmaster with Kitty when he left the school.
Like, I want to be clear, I am not trying to bully you into liking Jason Aaron. If he's not your thing, he is not your thing and thats fine. But a lot of the stuff you've said just...isn't really factually accurate.
He didn't ever really write Jean Grey? He wrote her as a part of the background cast in WatXM when they were briefly at the school and during Battle of the Atom but thats it.
And as for Storm I don't really know what issue you would have with how she was handled in his run? She was senior faculty, part of the main team, briefly rekindled her romance with Logan and then took over as Co-Headmaster with Kitty when he left the school.
Like, I want to be clear, I am not trying to bully you into liking Jason Aaron. If he's not your thing, he is not your thing and thats fine. But a lot of the stuff you've said just...isn't really factually accurate.
The way he treated her legacy, explicitly as something to be told and owned by Wolverine, is extremely gross, for a lot of reasons. Same with How Storm was "co-headmaster" except when Wolverine disagreed with her.
Like, it is factually accurate, it just is subtext and context, instead of explicit on the page.
He didn't ever really write Jean Grey? He wrote her as a part of the background cast in WatXM when they were briefly at the school and during Battle of the Atom but thats it.
And as for Storm I don't really know what issue you would have with how she was handled in his run? She was senior faculty, part of the main team, briefly rekindled her romance with Logan and then took over as Co-Headmaster with Kitty when he left the school.
Like, I want to be clear, I am not trying to bully you into liking Jason Aaron. If he's not your thing, he is not your thing and thats fine. But a lot of the stuff you've said just...isn't really factually accurate.
The way he treated her legacy, explicitly as something to be told and owned by Wolverine, is extremely gross, for a lot of reasons. Same with How Storm was "co-headmaster" except when Wolverine disagreed with her.
Like, it is factually accurate, it just is subtext and context, instead of explicit on the page.
I would say describing the relationship as Wolverine "owning" her is A) really gross and not even accurate as subtextual read
They were portrayed as equals who got back together because Logan had cleaned up his act a bit and Ororo wanted something comfortable and easy after her falling out with T'Challa
The fact that she took over as headmaster after both he and Kitty left AND had her own solo series for the first time ever during that run also kinda wrecks that subtext
you made a relationship that wasnt gross gross through your description
plus it sounds like you havent read the run, so are you talkong about subtext from like, specific panels? Thats not generally how you go about deconstructing a relationship as presented
There's a reason why I utterly dislike the 'Jean Grey has no character' meme
But Jason Aaron hasn't written Jean Grey! The only time she was part of a book he was writing was when she was a minor background character during the few months they stayed at the Jean Grey School and as part of a single crossover
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
No, he owned Jean's Legacy! He named the school after her, and claimed ownership over what she would have wanted!
No, he owned Jean's Legacy! He named the school after her, and claimed ownership over what she would have wanted!
I'm sorry but I really think you are reaching here, dude
Jean was A) dead, an active part of happily teaching young Mutants for pretty much her whole life and C) did care for Wolverine and love him. Not necessarily romantically, but still love.
Its no different than, like, Tony Stark naming a hospital after his mother. Would you be angry he stole her legacy then?
Especially since Jean is back now and canonically appreciated the name.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Actually, Jean Grey was generally intolerant of the whole dick waving contest Wolverine and Cyke would get into and tell them to both shut up and get back to work protecting mutants.
And that is a conpletely different situation, but okay whatever. Enjoy what you enjoy.
Actually, Jean Grey was generally intolerant of the whole dick waving contest Wolverine and Cyke would get into and tell them to both shut up and get back to work protecting mutants.
And that is a conpletely different situation, but okay whatever. Enjoy what you enjoy.
Actually, Jean Grey was generally intolerant of the whole dick waving contest Wolverine and Cyke would get into and tell them to both shut up and get back to work protecting mutants.
And that is a conpletely different situation, but okay whatever. Enjoy what you enjoy.
Dude
You're calling a writers treatment of women "gross", which is a term that has a lot of judgemental weight behind it, because you're actively choosing to ignore parts of the canon that make a decision you (edit) don't like make perfect sense
You're picking and choosing to the point where the version of a character you accept is not what has been presented as the character, and then judging a writer for not adhering to the version you specifically believe is correct, not the one in the comics
You get that that's completely unfair, and not only that, but that you're essentially leveraging complaints of sexist treatment of characters because.... the version of the characters the comics presents doesn't match yours?
Posts
The Hulk-but-a-girl thing, did he do that? I thought that came out of that brief post-Civil War II Hulk series that starred Jen, and some people were annoyed by how it undid the thing that was cool and unique about Jen's relationship with her Hulkiness, and some people said it was actually a good exploration of dealing with trauma. I haven't read it myself, so I have no idea how Jen was characterized in there; I went into Aaron's Avengers assuming that this was how Jen came out of her most recent series. Was that assumption incorrect?
If you don't like him that's fine but he has a pretty good track record with writing women, IMO?
He created Jane Foster Thor and wrote her for years, made Kitty Pryde headmaster of the X-Men and a team leader for the first time, created Roz Solomon who rules and has been a signficant supporting MU character for years, and new X-Men like Shark Girl and put a big focus on Idie .
The only kinda shitty thing that comes to mind is how Thor Odinson reclaimed the mantle but even then the book has made it clear Jane is going to be Thor again soon.
Spoilery Jane Foster question
I think a few years back She-Hulk had an arc where Jen was always She-Hulk 24/7. My qualm was stupid at the time, “ Well if she’s She-Hulk 24/7 then that doesn’t bode well for Jen Walter’s psyche”.
Which was DUMB in hindsight. It came from more of my fondness of regular Jen Walters as a character and how I appreciate her continued existence, from a comic book fan standpoint.
But is totally pig-headed from like, an actual person standpoint. I mean lets be real if given the choice you would be wrong not to be She-Hulk 100% of the time in any situation.
Basically what I’m saying is make She-Hulk an exploration of identity you cowards(or continue doing so that would be neat).
There's also the new Caretaker, Sara, he introduced in his Ghost Rider run.
And Melita Garner, the love interest for Logan he created in his Wolverine work, was a good character.
When they reach the border of the calmer lands, they are greeted by a relic from their past adventures: a knight NPC who was smitten with one of the party, Ash. She used her magic to make his oath not to rest until he saw her face once more binding, as a little joke and flirtation.
He died three years after they met. His eyes rotted three years after that. He was wandered the world, rotting and decaying, waiting for her return. All because of a joke they played on an NPC.
His sight is magically restored by another party member, and he collapses into a pile of fetid gore ontop of Ash.
The party ask themselves the question again: would they rather cross a land of eternal war, that has not seen peace in centuries, or travel through the lands they galavanted through as reckless teenagers, which they thought of as a playground with no consequences.
They decide endless war sounds like a better option.
They've done that story in recent books, especially the focus on whether it is mentally healthy for Jen to completely abandon her identity to become She-Hulk all the time.
Steam
He's intentionally giving a hard to remember name so that it's hard to remember where he's actually from
Like, I don't like things. I've seen them. I haven't necessarily read the whole run, but I've seen enough to know they aren't for me.
Okay but you can't say "he doesn't treat women well" and then when presented with a bunch of examples where thats not the case just go "but I didn't like those so they don't count as good treatment of women"
How so?
The Jen solo book that introduced the status quo of her having an emotionally trigged bestial Hulk led directly into Avengers.
The only real difference is that she is green again instead of grey.
I think how he treats Storm and Jean Grey, for example, dwarfs anything he did with Kitty Pryde, for example of the X-Men stuff.
And as for Storm I don't really know what issue you would have with how she was handled in his run? She was senior faculty, part of the main team, briefly rekindled her romance with Logan and then took over as Co-Headmaster with Kitty when he left the school.
Like, I want to be clear, I am not trying to bully you into liking Jason Aaron. If he's not your thing, he is not your thing and thats fine. But a lot of the stuff you've said just...isn't really factually accurate.
i haven't
The way he treated her legacy, explicitly as something to be told and owned by Wolverine, is extremely gross, for a lot of reasons. Same with How Storm was "co-headmaster" except when Wolverine disagreed with her.
Like, it is factually accurate, it just is subtext and context, instead of explicit on the page.
Arnim Zola.
Uh.
MODOK I guess depending on your perspective.
(I know the last two aren't mutants, I'm stretching to do a bit.)
They were portrayed as equals who got back together because Logan had cleaned up his act a bit and Ororo wanted something comfortable and easy after her falling out with T'Challa
The fact that she took over as headmaster after both he and Kitty left AND had her own solo series for the first time ever during that run also kinda wrecks that subtext
you made a relationship that wasnt gross gross through your description
plus it sounds like you havent read the run, so are you talkong about subtext from like, specific panels? Thats not generally how you go about deconstructing a relationship as presented
Jean was A) dead,
Its no different than, like, Tony Stark naming a hospital after his mother. Would you be angry he stole her legacy then?
Especially since Jean is back now and canonically appreciated the name.
And that is a conpletely different situation, but okay whatever. Enjoy what you enjoy.
Which Jean Grey are we talking about here?
Nightcrawler
Beast
Angel
Iceman
Rogue
Gambit
Doop
NBAIRGD
So was Coach McGurk, ostensibly
Dude
You're calling a writers treatment of women "gross", which is a term that has a lot of judgemental weight behind it, because you're actively choosing to ignore parts of the canon that make a decision you (edit) don't like make perfect sense
You're picking and choosing to the point where the version of a character you accept is not what has been presented as the character, and then judging a writer for not adhering to the version you specifically believe is correct, not the one in the comics
You get that that's completely unfair, and not only that, but that you're essentially leveraging complaints of sexist treatment of characters because.... the version of the characters the comics presents doesn't match yours?