Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt has warned the UK faces "Brexit paralysis" if MPs reject Theresa May's EU deal.
He said two Commons defeats this week showed Parliament was "committed one way or another to try to stop no-deal".
But that would risk "no Brexit", he argued, which would be a "breach of trust" with the public.
"If this deal is rejected, ultimately what we may end up with is not a different type of Brexit but Brexit paralysis.
"And Brexit paralysis ultimately could lead to no Brexit.
"I'm saying this would be (an) incredibly damaging breach of trust and it would also be very bad for Britain's reputation abroad, having decided to leave the EU, if we in the end for whatever reasons found we weren't able to do it."
ARRRGGHHHrglblsghgsdfgh.
I take a ray of hope that ministers are repeatedly saying that this means that no brexit is an option, but still.
It would at worst be a breach of trust with the wishes of 51% of the public. I bet if you had referendums on them, a lot would vote to not pay taxes, or to be able to drive at whatever speed they like.
As for our reputation abroad, I'm pretty sure that ship's not arranged by Seaborne Freight, so it's already sailed.
I have faced many challenges in the two decades for which I have sat in the House, but Sunday 7 August 2011, the morning after the Tottenham riots, was by far the greatest. Walking on broken glass, past burnt-out cars, homes and businesses, comforting men and women who were still in their pyjamas, I saw the place where I had lived for my whole life turned to ashes.
Many members of the community were urging me to say that the killing of Mark Duggan by police, which had sparked the riots, justified that rage: that the families made homeless, the burnt-out buses and houses and the looted shops were worth it. They told me I had to say that that wrong was right. It was not easy, but I had to look members of my community in the face, tell them that the violence was a disgrace, and condemn it unequivocally. Why? Because we have a duty to tell our constituents the truth, even when they passionately disagree. We owe them not only our industry but our judgment. We are trusted representatives, not unthinking delegates, so why do many in the House continue to support Brexit when they know that it will wreck jobs, the NHS and our standing in the world?
This is the fundamental dishonesty at the heart of the Brexit debate. Most Members now recognise that in private, but do not say it in public. Brexit is a con, a trick, a swindle, a fraud. It is a deception that will hurt most of the people it promised to help. It is a dangerous fantasy that will make every problem it claims to solve worse. It is a campaign won on false promises and lies. Both Vote Leave and Leave.EU broke the law. Russian interference is beyond reasonable doubt.
By now, every single campaign promise made in 2016 has come unstuck. Brexit will not enrich our NHS; it will impoverish it. Our trade deal with Donald Trump will see US corporations privatise and dismantle it, one bed at a time. Even the promises on immigration, which has so greatly enriched our country, are a lie. After Brexit, immigration will go up, not down. When we enter into negotiations with countries such as India and China, they will ask for three things—visas, visas and more visas—and they will get them, because we will be weak.
Then there is the myth about restoring parliamentary sovereignty. The last two years have shown what a joke that is. The Prime Minister has hoarded power like a deluded 21st-century Henry VIII. Impact assessments have been hidden, votes have been resisted and blocked, and simple opponents of Government policies have been bullied and threatened to get into line. Even when we forced a meaningful vote, the Prime Minister cancelled it, certain we would reject her disastrous deal—and oh, we will reject it, because it is a lose-lose compromise that offers no certainty for our future. All that it guarantees is more years of negotiation, headed by the same clowns who guided us into this farce in the first place.
We are suffering from a crisis of leadership in our hour of need. This country’s greatest moments came when we showed courage, not when we appeased: the courage of Wilberforce to emancipate the slaves in the face of the anger of the British ruling class, the courage of Winston Churchill to declare war on Hitler in the face of the appeasers in his Cabinet and the country, and the courage of Attlee and Bevan to nationalise the health service in the face of the doctors who protested that that was not right. Today, we too must be bold, because the challenges that we face are just as extreme. We must not be afraid to tell the truth to those who disagree.
Friends on this side of the House tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns: the former miners, the factory workers, those who feel that they have been left behind. I say that we must not patronise them with cowardice. Let us tell them the truth. Let us tell them, “You were sold a lie. Parts of the media used your fears to sell papers and boost viewing figures. Nigel Farage and the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) exploited the same prejudice to win votes. Shame on them. Immigrants have not taken your jobs; our schools and colleges failed to give you skills.
Hospitals are crumbling not because of health tourists, but because of decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone. People cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because Mohammed down the road moved in. Wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country.
Blame us; blame Westminster: do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes. And do not be angry at us for telling you the truth; be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie. As Martin Luther King said long ago:
“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.”
So just as I speak plainly to the Government this time around, let me speak to the Opposition about some home truths. There is no left-wing justification for Brexit. Ditching workers’ rights and social protections and ending environmental co-operation is not progressive. This is a project about neoliberal deregulation; it is Thatcherism on steroids, pushed by her modern-day disciples. Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism; it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US.
Socialism confined to one country will not work. Whether we like it or not, the world we live in is global. We can fix the rigged system only if we co-operate across border lines. The party of Keir Hardie has always been international. We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them on the biggest issue of our lives.
If we remain in the EU we can reform it from the top table: share the load of mass migration, address the excesses of the bureaucracy and fix inequalities between creditor and debtor states. We can recharge the economy. We can refuel the NHS. We can build the houses we need after years of hurt. Hope is what we need: remain in the EU; give Britain a second opportunity to decide.
My bet is on May's deal somehow just getting passed because no deal is that fucking terrible + no one has the backbone to actually cancel brexit.
You are discounting the most likely possibility: that Parliament simply makes no decision because it can't agree and we get no deal. Tory brexiters won't vote for the deal because they're mad and it isn't bringing back the Raj, Labour will whip against it because chaos is a ladder, the SNP probably won't vote for it because it's a bad deal, etc.
Ministers paid the European Commission £1.5 million for ‘translation services’ during Brexit negotiations.
It comes after the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) were ridiculed for sending “clunky” translations of the Brexit white paper into 22 European languages.
Translation experts found numerous mistakes and irregularities in several translations, including the French, German, Croatian and Welsh language versions of Theresa May ’s Chequers plan.
We had to get the EU's help to translate it into Welsh?
They're all just the English text, only in fonts that signify speaking louder and slower.
re: count voting against the deal: Assuming those numbers are accurate (big if!), wouldn't that make this the largest loss of a vote by the sitting government...er..ever?
Ministers paid the European Commission £1.5 million for ‘translation services’ during Brexit negotiations.
It comes after the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) were ridiculed for sending “clunky” translations of the Brexit white paper into 22 European languages.
Translation experts found numerous mistakes and irregularities in several translations, including the French, German, Croatian and Welsh language versions of Theresa May ’s Chequers plan.
The incompetence of these people...
That article has a superb zinger from Jo Stevens, though:
It's funny watching Corbyn supporters suddenly hailing polls like this as the truth, whereas anytime they show Corbyn doing poorly polls are the devil.
Mr Grayling said there would be a "different tone" in British politics if the UK failed to leave the EU, and predicted a "less tolerant society" and a "more nationalistic nation".
"It will open the door to extremist populist political forces in this country of the kind we see in other countries in Europe," Mr Grayling told the paper.
Yeah, like parties formed on the basis of racism and independence from Europe no matter the cost.
Proverbs 006: Nothing good ever comes in a bucket.
+1
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
in case anybody here is wondering what arrangements will look like in eu countries - here is a useful thread for those in poland about what they need to do to ensure continuous residence
I find it disgusting that the polls have moved so little.
A second ref granting remain by the slimmest of margins doesn't really offer the kind of mandate you'd want.
Its no wonder y'all are still in this mess.
+1
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
tbh a second ref of remain vs any concrete brexit proposal isnt a narrow win; no actual brexit policy has more than 35% support. the only second ref that is a squeaker is a ranked choice (because may deal is universal second choice) or a literal re-run, and both of those seem to me politically implausible.
also worth noting those polls are weighted by intention; if young people turn out (hur hur) then the numbers change a lot.
Posts
It is a great loss to the world that she eventually deleted her pre-MP twitter history.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
RMS Oceanic is cancelled.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
A platform we can all get behind.
I know, the government backed the Queen Mary instead
Being run by Seaborne Freight, is it?
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
I take a ray of hope that ministers are repeatedly saying that this means that no brexit is an option, but still.
It would at worst be a breach of trust with the wishes of 51% of the public. I bet if you had referendums on them, a lot would vote to not pay taxes, or to be able to drive at whatever speed they like.
As for our reputation abroad, I'm pretty sure that ship's not arranged by Seaborne Freight, so it's already sailed.
Link: European Union (Withdrawal) Act 10 January 2019 Volume 652 -House of Commons Hansard
Many members of the community were urging me to say that the killing of Mark Duggan by police, which had sparked the riots, justified that rage: that the families made homeless, the burnt-out buses and houses and the looted shops were worth it. They told me I had to say that that wrong was right. It was not easy, but I had to look members of my community in the face, tell them that the violence was a disgrace, and condemn it unequivocally. Why? Because we have a duty to tell our constituents the truth, even when they passionately disagree. We owe them not only our industry but our judgment. We are trusted representatives, not unthinking delegates, so why do many in the House continue to support Brexit when they know that it will wreck jobs, the NHS and our standing in the world?
This is the fundamental dishonesty at the heart of the Brexit debate. Most Members now recognise that in private, but do not say it in public. Brexit is a con, a trick, a swindle, a fraud. It is a deception that will hurt most of the people it promised to help. It is a dangerous fantasy that will make every problem it claims to solve worse. It is a campaign won on false promises and lies. Both Vote Leave and Leave.EU broke the law. Russian interference is beyond reasonable doubt.
By now, every single campaign promise made in 2016 has come unstuck. Brexit will not enrich our NHS; it will impoverish it. Our trade deal with Donald Trump will see US corporations privatise and dismantle it, one bed at a time. Even the promises on immigration, which has so greatly enriched our country, are a lie. After Brexit, immigration will go up, not down. When we enter into negotiations with countries such as India and China, they will ask for three things—visas, visas and more visas—and they will get them, because we will be weak.
Then there is the myth about restoring parliamentary sovereignty. The last two years have shown what a joke that is. The Prime Minister has hoarded power like a deluded 21st-century Henry VIII. Impact assessments have been hidden, votes have been resisted and blocked, and simple opponents of Government policies have been bullied and threatened to get into line. Even when we forced a meaningful vote, the Prime Minister cancelled it, certain we would reject her disastrous deal—and oh, we will reject it, because it is a lose-lose compromise that offers no certainty for our future. All that it guarantees is more years of negotiation, headed by the same clowns who guided us into this farce in the first place.
We are suffering from a crisis of leadership in our hour of need. This country’s greatest moments came when we showed courage, not when we appeased: the courage of Wilberforce to emancipate the slaves in the face of the anger of the British ruling class, the courage of Winston Churchill to declare war on Hitler in the face of the appeasers in his Cabinet and the country, and the courage of Attlee and Bevan to nationalise the health service in the face of the doctors who protested that that was not right. Today, we too must be bold, because the challenges that we face are just as extreme. We must not be afraid to tell the truth to those who disagree.
Friends on this side of the House tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns: the former miners, the factory workers, those who feel that they have been left behind. I say that we must not patronise them with cowardice. Let us tell them the truth. Let us tell them, “You were sold a lie. Parts of the media used your fears to sell papers and boost viewing figures. Nigel Farage and the right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) exploited the same prejudice to win votes. Shame on them. Immigrants have not taken your jobs; our schools and colleges failed to give you skills.
Hospitals are crumbling not because of health tourists, but because of decades of austerity that ground them down to the bone. People cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build, not because Mohammed down the road moved in. Wealth was hoarded in London when it should have been shared across the country.
Blame us; blame Westminster: do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes. And do not be angry at us for telling you the truth; be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie. As Martin Luther King said long ago:
“There comes a time when silence is betrayal.”
So just as I speak plainly to the Government this time around, let me speak to the Opposition about some home truths. There is no left-wing justification for Brexit. Ditching workers’ rights and social protections and ending environmental co-operation is not progressive. This is a project about neoliberal deregulation; it is Thatcherism on steroids, pushed by her modern-day disciples. Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism; it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US.
Socialism confined to one country will not work. Whether we like it or not, the world we live in is global. We can fix the rigged system only if we co-operate across border lines. The party of Keir Hardie has always been international. We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them on the biggest issue of our lives.
If we remain in the EU we can reform it from the top table: share the load of mass migration, address the excesses of the bureaucracy and fix inequalities between creditor and debtor states. We can recharge the economy. We can refuel the NHS. We can build the houses we need after years of hurt. Hope is what we need: remain in the EU; give Britain a second opportunity to decide.
You are discounting the most likely possibility: that Parliament simply makes no decision because it can't agree and we get no deal. Tory brexiters won't vote for the deal because they're mad and it isn't bringing back the Raj, Labour will whip against it because chaos is a ladder, the SNP probably won't vote for it because it's a bad deal, etc.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
The incompetence of these people...
They're all just the English text, only in fonts that signify speaking louder and slower.
re: count voting against the deal: Assuming those numbers are accurate (big if!), wouldn't that make this the largest loss of a vote by the sitting government...er..ever?
Goodreads
SF&F Reviews blog
That article has a superb zinger from Jo Stevens, though:
They broke their L button.
Sky News is a news organisation and their employees are having a fun Friday.
The potential for abuse of people's personal data is massive
Because now it's everyone else's fault if you let your child enter 01/01/1912.
https://politico.eu: UK police advise shops to hire extra security for no-deal Brexit
At least Brexit will create some jobs?
C'mon, everybody outside of the UK knows the UK and England are basically the same thing.
And so do people inside the UK. Apparently.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Mac and Cheese IS PEOPLE!
video on it here
With a side of macaroni cheese!
Need a "barf" link to go with "agree" and "awesone"
...cause? I think he's got his tenses mixed up here. Yeah, like parties formed on the basis of racism and independence from Europe no matter the cost.
It is though. It's super easy.
And worst case would still be better than a no deal brexit.
A second ref granting remain by the slimmest of margins doesn't really offer the kind of mandate you'd want.
Its no wonder y'all are still in this mess.
also worth noting those polls are weighted by intention; if young people turn out (hur hur) then the numbers change a lot.