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US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

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Posts

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    .
    Viskod wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    McConnell went home so the earliest possible this can end now is sometime Monday aftetnoon, or more likely Tuesday. I don't see why it'd end then, but it's sad to think it's guaranteed another 4 days basically

    This shutdown is going through the state of the union at least and the White House is planning on it lasting all of next month.

    If that's the case (and I don't doubt it), then that needs to be the story. That the White House aren't willing to consider it. That they're not just prepared to, but are actively intending to, inflict pain to force their position. That it's not a day to day proposition, they're fully intending to be assholes for at least another six weeks, and negotiations aren't even on the cards.

    All because baby wants his binky, and will tear everything down.

    And Republican Senators need to be "informed" (we know they know, we need to make it clear they know we know they know), so that they're unable to hide behind ignorance on the matter. That if they don't do something themselves, then they're responsible. That they're absolutely complicit.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I know it's considered tacky to insult the president as part of the response, but Pelosi really needs to point out that trump is a spoiled child who has no idea what the shutdown actually means for americans and how it's crippling the nation all for the sake of a structure which every expert will admit doesn't work if the guy on the other side has access to home hardware.

  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    When I filed for unemployment one of the questions asked was am I a federal worker who has been furloughed. Because Maryland isn’t going to pay for that.

    Ouch.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    This is possibly the saddest defense against people saying the white house is in chaos.




    'Elections have consequences" does not apply to congressional elections for some reason.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Just stop after the first tweet.

    The White House isn't chaotic because everybody but him has fled.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Sleep on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    I've read a few stories, but they always seem to end with the worker saying "I don't care about Republicans or Democrats, I just want the politicians to stop playing games and compromise."

    I don't know if that's actually representative of most furloughed workers, or if it's just the media's need to Both Sides everything.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Could be curation by the media, but I think we’ve been conditioned to say shit like that when face to face (online is waaayyyy different obvi).

    That phenomenon is why one side gets to literally hold the country hostage without being called the literal hostage takers they are

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    There is also the fact they'd probably really like to make rent and eat food. This is the classic overall good versus individual good question. It is real hard to be the individual whose good is being sacrificed and still be chipper about the overall good.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    There is also the fact they'd probably really like to make rent and eat food. This is the classic overall good versus individual good question. It is real hard to be the individual whose good is being sacrificed and still be chipper about the overall good.

    The Dems passed the bill that passed 100-0 already in the last senate

    The Dems ain’t sacrificing anybody’s individual good because the Rs won’t release the hostage because they want it dead anyway

    Captain Inertia on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    The Dems aren’t playing games here blood is shooting out of my face oh my god

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    When I filed for unemployment one of the questions asked was am I a federal worker who has been furloughed. Because Maryland isn’t going to pay for that.

    Ouch.

    :bro:

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    Or they could run some astroturfing cover for Mitch McConnell. Link

    Summary: He apparently did the same thing as Graham, with the same results. Also the article somehow fails to bring up that Mitch already passed a funding bill before xmas and the House is sending him the same fucking bill back.

    Edit: Link fixed. Thanks!

    Dark_Side on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Your link is broken.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    The US did when we switched from the Articles to the Constitution.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    I've read a few stories, but they always seem to end with the worker saying "I don't care about Republicans or Democrats, I just want the politicians to stop playing games and compromise."

    I don't know if that's actually representative of most furloughed workers, or if it's just the media's need to Both Sides everything.

    No that's the response of most of the populace who are tired after 2 decades of a totally useless government that's fighting a game most proles don't care about.

    The fact is that most people consider the government a nuisance they will never be rid of. They don't really care what it does so long as it doesn't fuck them up directly and as little as possible indirectly.

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    For him, isn't this pretty much a holiday? Surprised he's not just flown down to Mar-a-Largo and said he's going to be playing golf until the Dems agree to the wall.

  • wazillawazilla Having a late dinner Registered User regular
    "how can there be chaos in the White House if there's nobody in the White House?" Is a terrifyingly dumb take. I hope to God nothing happens that requires US intervention during this shutdown.

    Psn:wazukki
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    and absolute worst case you can call a snap election

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    This is a good speech and should have been the Schumer Pelosi rebuttal:



    Sen. Tester (D-MT), speaking on the Senate floor Wednesday.
    [Edit: think I have the day wrong, still good!]


    - Admin has not provided any cost justification.
    - Reopen, then debate.
    - McConnell is a bad leader and is undermining the very premise of co-equal government.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    Canada.

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Senator Tester's speech uses facts and figures, therefore it is an automatic pass for the people it most needs to reach and/or sway.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    There is also the fact they'd probably really like to make rent and eat food. This is the classic overall good versus individual good question. It is real hard to be the individual whose good is being sacrificed and still be chipper about the overall good.

    The Dems passed the bill that passed 100-0 already in the last senate

    The Dems ain’t sacrificing anybody’s individual good because the Rs won’t release the hostage because they want it dead anyway

    Yeah, I know that but then again I'm not gonna have any problems paying my mortgage this month because I don't work for the government. Still, my point was that I am sympathetic to how they feel.

    Do you really not understand that when you're facing financial ruin that you probably don't give a shit about who is actually right? You just want anybody to give in so you actually get paid for your work.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Senator Tester's speech uses facts and figures has a (D) after his name, therefore it is an automatic pass for the people it most needs to reach and/or sway.

    There, fixed that for you.

  • Magus`Magus` The fun has been DOUBLED! Registered User regular
    I'm legit worried about actual violence at this point, no less because I feel it's going to be aimed more at Democrats given the two (three?) bases make up, Trump's especially.

    Not trying to be doomsaying but these after people who have a massive persecution complex in the best of times. If attacks happen, I hope that they are dealt with safely and that finally it would be enough pressure for the Republicans to stop pulling this shit.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    D's should stage a sit-in on the Senate floor and refuse to vacate until McConnell brings the bill to a vote.

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    McConnell really is the problem here, again.

    If he lets a vote happen, Trump has to act one way or the other, and collapse the waveform of blame. McConnell is the key here, once he's moved the rest can shake itself out like government is supposed to function.


    Your Senator is the proper place to put pressure right now, if you're wondering how to do something.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/trump-shutdown-confusion.html
    WASHINGTON — Officially, Republicans blame Democrats for what is now the longest government shutdown in the nation’s history. Privately, many concede, the stalemate over President Trump’s demand for a border wall has been made exponentially worse by White House ineptitude on Capitol Hill, where two years of contradictory statements and actions have built up a profound lack of trust.

    Republican lawmakers and aides worry that Mr. Trump has misunderstood Democrats’ incentives to stand firm and that he has deputized the wrong aides to press his case. And they question who — if anyone other than the president — has the authority to resolve the impasse. They describe a dysfunctional dynamic where even senior leaders in Mr. Trump’s own party never know quite what to expect from the president.
    It happened again on Thursday. A group of Republican senators were trying to forge a deal to pair wall funding with legal status for undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children, often known as Dreamers. Then Mr. Pence told them that their effort would not earn Mr. Trump’s support, effectively torpedoing the talks. Members of the group said they recognized that their proposal would rise and fall according to the whims of the president.

    “The president is the chief executive who is going to be a part of solving this problem,” said Senator Thom Tillis, Republican of North Carolina, “so I must trust him.”

    But hours later, the president contradicted Mr. Pence, saying in McAllen, Tex., that he would be open to a “broader” immigration deal that would “simultaneously” deal with the Dreamers and a wall — if senators would bring him one they could agree on.

    Again, Republicans were left baffled by a president who has pitched himself as an expert in the art of the deal.
    Mr. Kushner has little relationship with Mr. Manchin, but he left the senator with the impression that the White House believed public opinion would be on the president’s side after the speech, and that Democrats would simply have to relent. That did not go over well.
    The whole situation is a bunch of amateurs with no idea what they want or how to accomplish it and a bunch of people who aren't amateurs refusing to force the amateurs to be less foolish.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    It sounds to me like Pence was lying about Trump being unwilling to discuss Dreamers, because he himself hates the thought of a deal being done to help them. Of course, Trump can't be trusted to stick to any agreement, so perhaps he was being realistic.

  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    It sounds to me like Pence was lying about Trump being unwilling to discuss Dreamers, because he himself hates the thought of a deal being done to help them. Of course, Trump can't be trusted to stick to any agreement, so perhaps he was being realistic.
    Part of me wonders if Pence is trying to push his own agenda and hope Trump either doesn't notice or is so disinterested in government that he doesn't care.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Calica wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    Depends on what you mean by peaceful..

    Lots of dictatorships have transitioned to more Democratic governments peacefully... post Franco spain, Burma(though the new government is still pretty brutal), South Korea, and many of the various post communist Eastern European governments come to mind. Also going the other way, for example Erdogan and Putin are effectively dictators from previously quasi-democratic states without a revolution (though with Erdogan a violent coup was attempeted against him after the fact).

    Jealous Deva on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    Because they only watch Fox.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    His only source of news, or at least the only one he trusts, is Fox News, where it's just an echo chamber of praise

    Somewhere around 30%, I think, of the USA is all aboard the Trump train, and that's who Fox News targets

  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    D's should stage a sit-in on the Senate floor and refuse to vacate until McConnell brings the bill to a vote.

    They only need 51 to form a quorum...

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Marathon wrote: »
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    Because they only watch Fox.

    Literally the entire Republican party infrastructure, from the President and Senators down to their staff, basically mainlines Fox News and little else. That's where they get their information from. Even most of their elected officials these days are just more inmates from the asylum.

    shryke on
This discussion has been closed.