If he lets a vote happen, Trump has to act one way or the other, and collapse the waveform of blame. McConnell is the key here, once he's moved the rest can shake itself out like government is supposed to function.
Your Senator is the proper place to put pressure right now, if you're wondering how to do something.
If he lets a vote happen, Trump has to act one way or the other, and collapse the waveform of blame. McConnell is the key here, once he's moved the rest can shake itself out like government is supposed to function.
Your Senator is the proper place to put pressure right now, if you're wondering how to do something.
Both my senators are dems so....
Tell them you care anyway. They don't automatically know how public support is going.
If he lets a vote happen, Trump has to act one way or the other, and collapse the waveform of blame. McConnell is the key here, once he's moved the rest can shake itself out like government is supposed to function.
Your Senator is the proper place to put pressure right now, if you're wondering how to do something.
Both my senators are dems so....
Tell them you care anyway. They don't automatically know how public support is going.
Yeah, Dem Senators matter just as much. Stiffen their spines with yelling otherwise they might go soft reading all the DC insider bullshit op-eds.
Republican lawmakers and aides worry that Mr. Trump has misunderstood Democrats’ incentives to stand firm and that he has deputized the wrong aides to press his case. And they question who — if anyone other than the president — has the authority to resolve the impasse.
THAT'S YOU! THAT'S YOU YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES! YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY!! YOU'RE THE CHECK ON THE EXECUTIVE!!! YOU SPENT 8 YEARS BEING OBSTINATE TWITS AGAINST OBAMA, DO NOT TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!!!!!
The fact that we have informally kinda scribbled the veto-override out of the constitution in the case of the president and at least one house of congress being party aligned is a real fucking problem.
I truly don’t know enough about our system of government (just enough to be dangerous, so to speak), but ... is it Mitch’s job—his actual, “I was elected to do X” job—to only bring votes up for bills that the president will absolutely sign? It’s not, is it?
Why the FUCK isn’t there a never-ending dialogue about how this is all on Mitch not bringing up the vote that already passed? Fuck, why isn’t that vote already just accepted as having passed?? Argh, I am so fucking furious that Putin is pulling our country apart so easily by injecting this fucking worm into the Oval Office. I’m equally frustrated to find out just how barely held together out government really is, when all it takes to destroy it is a pair of jack holes in the right positions saying “let’s shut this down, eh?”
I truly don’t know enough about our system of government (just enough to be dangerous, so to speak), but ... is it Mitch’s job—his actual, “I was elected to do X” job—to only bring votes up for bills that the president will absolutely sign? It’s not, is it?
Why the FUCK isn’t there a never-ending dialogue about how this is all on Mitch not bringing up the vote that already passed? Fuck, why isn’t that vote already just accepted as having passed?? Argh, I am so fucking furious that Putin is pulling our country apart so easily by injecting this fucking worm into the Oval Office. I’m equally frustrated to find out just how barely held together out government really is, when all it takes to destroy it is a pair of jack holes in the right positions saying “let’s shut this down, eh?”
I truly don’t know enough about our system of government (just enough to be dangerous, so to speak), but ... is it Mitch’s job—his actual, “I was elected to do X” job—to only bring votes up for bills that the president will absolutely sign? It’s not, is it?
Why the FUCK isn’t there a never-ending dialogue about how this is all on Mitch not bringing up the vote that already passed? Fuck, why isn’t that vote already just accepted as having passed?? Argh, I am so fucking furious that Putin is pulling our country apart so easily by injecting this fucking worm into the Oval Office. I’m equally frustrated to find out just how barely held together out government really is, when all it takes to destroy it is a pair of jack holes in the right positions saying “let’s shut this down, eh?”
McConnell’s job is to serve the American people.
Instead, he is serving his party and himself.
It really is that simple.
As Senate majority leader, he is also supposed to serve the interests of the Republican senators. He isn't doing a great job at that either.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited January 2019
It wasn't until this presidency that I learned the Senate Majority Leader was able to unilaterally decide if things get voted on at all or not. That amount of power is fucking stunning.
It wasn't until this presidency that I learned the Senate Majority Leader was able to unilaterally decide if things get voted on at all or not. That amount of power is fucking stunning.
It's less explicit than that. Whoever is presiding over the Senate sets the agenda, per the Senate rules.
Pence could roll up and take over (VP constitutionally is president of the Senate). Absent that, it falls to ePresident Pro Tempore. Or majority leader, as is more often the case
e: so yes, either of Pence or Grassley could overrule McConnell and say "no we're voting on this" but neither will.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
It wasn't until this presidency that I learned the Senate Majority Leader was able to unilaterally decide if things get voted on at all or not. That amount of power is fucking stunning.
It isnt that unilateral and Mitch is doing exactly what the other Rep senators want him to.
At any point 51 people can vote for leadership positions and toss mitch out. But no republican wants to be the one that crosses the line and votes for schumer because that would end their political career.
Such they hide behind mitch. They get to say both that they are against the shutdown and also not break ranks and alienate the base and also lets them attack someone who isnt Trump. “If only mitch would let us vote” they say weakly while giving him the thumbs up behind their back.
Its the same kind of thing that goes on in whip counts. “We need x votes but the thing is kind of unpopular we have to decide who gets to vote no and look like theyre taking a principled stand while making sure the thing still passes.”
It wasn't until this presidency that I learned the Senate Majority Leader was able to unilaterally decide if things get voted on at all or not. That amount of power is fucking stunning.
It isnt that unilateral and Mitch is doing exactly what the other Rep senators want him to.
Given the CR previously passed 100-0 this is highly fucking debatable.
It wasn't until this presidency that I learned the Senate Majority Leader was able to unilaterally decide if things get voted on at all or not. That amount of power is fucking stunning.
It isnt that unilateral and Mitch is doing exactly what the other Rep senators want him to.
Given the CR previously passed 100-0 this is highly fucking debatable.
It was passed with unanimous consent when the President said he supported it at the time. After his most recent renege literally in between that vote and the House vote it changed their incentives.
It wasn't until this presidency that I learned the Senate Majority Leader was able to unilaterally decide if things get voted on at all or not. That amount of power is fucking stunning.
It isnt that unilateral and Mitch is doing exactly what the other Rep senators want him to.
Given the CR previously passed 100-0 this is highly fucking debatable.
It was passed with unanimous consent when the President said he supported it at the time. After his most recent renege literally in between that vote and the House vote it changed their incentives.
Yup. Their priorities are:
1) Getting reelected
2) having a functioning government
in that order.
When Trump was gonna sign the CR, they voted for it because 2. Once he came out against it, they won't because 1.
The fact that we have informally kinda scribbled the veto-override out of the constitution in the case of the president and at least one house of congress being party aligned is a real fucking problem.
As always, the electorate is the ultimate problem here. Hence my "look left, look right, one of those people 100% supports this" from two pages ago. The outsize power some geographic areas have in the Senate is another matter, but even in Seattle I've noticed an uptick in open Trump support over the last couple years. Mitch does what he does because the voters...both his own and the voters for every Republican Senator who is not overriding him as we speak...support this. This strategy has enough popular support that he can do this, if that support gets low enough it no longer works.
That even more "balanced" news outlets like the AP have normalized this strategy doesn't help.
Everything the Senate does or does not do is with the consent of the electorate. The President has not been removed because there is insufficient popular support or sufficient popular opposition for that action. The government is shut down for the exact same reason.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
I feel like any Republican, even Murkowski, who participated in a coup with the Democrats to remove the current Republican Leadership in the Senate and bypass the President would never get relected again.
There are elements of the Republican financial backers, like the Libertarian billionaires, who would like to see a government shutdown go on for as long as possible. They would see it as a chance to prove that their ideology is correct, since if it is shutting down the government should result in a new golden age of freedom and prosperity.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
With great power comes great repsonsibiity, and no one else wants the responsibility, so they'll settle for moderate power and avoiding the blame.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
With great power comes great repsonsibiity, and no one else wants the responsibility, so they'll settle for moderate power and avoiding the blame.
What power? The Dems are blocking their ability to do anything substantial until this shit is sorted.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
With great power comes great repsonsibiity, and no one else wants the responsibility, so they'll settle for moderate power and avoiding the blame.
What power? The Dems are blocking their ability to do anything substantial until this shit is sorted.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
I feel like any Republican, even Murkowski, who participated in a coup with the Democrats to remove the current Republican Leadership in the Senate and bypass the President would never get relected again.
If they can find a retiring senator who doesn’t need to be afraid of Trump then they could go for it.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
I feel like any Republican, even Murkowski, who participated in a coup with the Democrats to remove the current Republican Leadership in the Senate and bypass the President would never get relected again.
If they can find a retiring senator who doesn’t need to be afraid of Trump then they could go for it.
The 11 just seated don't need to be afraid of him, neither, really, do the 22 seated two years ago.
The party only works because libertarians agree to back the shitty ideas of social conservatives and vice versa. They [wisely?] fear breaking ranks, period.
Spool has it 100% correct. The problem is Mitch McConnell. It's always been Mitch McConnell. The goal right now should be to lean on the 7 vulnerable Senators to start supporting a new Senator Majority Leader who will bring this to the floor. It takes only four R Senators to vote with every Democrat to put Murkowski or Gardner or someone else in control.
With great power comes great repsonsibiity, and no one else wants the responsibility, so they'll settle for moderate power and avoiding the blame.
What power? The Dems are blocking their ability to do anything substantial until this shit is sorted.
Was specifically talking about taking Senate majority leader, and why no one else wants it. Much like Ryan as house speaker, much easier to claim you would do something than be responsible for making it happen.
Republican lawmakers and aides worry that Mr. Trump has misunderstood Democrats’ incentives to stand firm and that he has deputized the wrong aides to press his case. And they question who — if anyone other than the president — has the authority to resolve the impasse.
THAT'S YOU! THAT'S YOU YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES! YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY!! YOU'RE THE CHECK ON THE EXECUTIVE!!! YOU SPENT 8 YEARS BEING OBSTINATE TWITS AGAINST OBAMA, DO NOT TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!!!!!
I think I've said this before somewhere here, but I don't think the Republican Party actually understands or believes that anymore.
Constitutionally? Yeah, sure, Congress is an equal branch (Legislative) that serves as a check on the Executive and the Judiciary.
But their party dynamic is a lot stronger in their professional lives than their roles as lawmakers. And under the current set up, Donald Trump is effectively head of the Republican Party.
And the Republican Party is, at its core, an authoritarian hierarchical organization. You may get rumblings, and at the start of this whole nightmare there was probably talk about how they'd make Trump work for the party, etc. etc.
But in the end: He's the top of their hierarchy, and even if they could get past that they're scared stupid of him directing the base against defectors and detractors within the party.
So they fall in line, because they're believers or scared of reprisal from a man whose mantra has for years been how much he loves reprisals
Since I don't want to necro the "disrespects the military threat", but I'm so mad about this whole thing. I have a handful of Coast Guard folks working for me at a joint base. So far they're being awesome, have some cash set aside so they're not freaking out yet, but that won't last.
I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.
Because the script says the hero wins. How that comes about surely doesn't matter. It will all just work out with winner-genes.
I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.
Because the script says the hero wins. How that comes about surely doesn't matter. It will all just work out with winner-genes.
I don't think Trump has ever spoken in front of an audience that openly dislikes him. (Aside from the occasional protester). As far as he's aware, people go apeshit when he speaks.
I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.
Because the script says the hero wins. How that comes about surely doesn't matter. It will all just work out with winner-genes.
Their script says the winner is the hero. Slight difference. It's a variant on the prosperity gospel.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
What happens if mitch doesn't do his job and Trump doesnt budge? Do we let this drag on or at some point do democrats have to be the adults in the room just so the country can function ? I want to say no we cannot let the country trand government be used as a hostage and negotiation tactic. But at the same time, canthis really be allowed to drag on?
What happens if mitch doesn't do his job and Trump doesnt budge? Do we let this drag on or at some point do democrats have to be the adults in the room just so the country can function ? I want to say no we cannot let the country trand government be used as a hostage and negotiation tactic. But at the same time, canthis really be allowed to drag on?
The people being hurt will be hurt more if the GOP can just shut down the government over any toddler temper tantrum
I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.
Because the script says the hero wins. How that comes about surely doesn't matter. It will all just work out with winner-genes.
Their script says the winner is the hero. Slight difference. It's a variant on the prosperity gospel.
No, no, they assumed that public opinion would be on their side before the fact, even though the plan was to throw some estranging idiot in front of the cameras to make croaking noises.
What happens if mitch doesn't do his job and Trump doesnt budge? Do we let this drag on or at some point do democrats have to be the adults in the room just so the country can function ? I want to say no we cannot let the country trand government be used as a hostage and negotiation tactic. But at the same time, canthis really be allowed to drag on?
We keep the government shut down until Trump is out of office, however that comes about, even if it takes six years.
I thin shit is going to hit the fan once the planes stop flying. Because once the planes stop flying, most Senators go on red fucking alert because they need to fly back and forth from their states for their jobs. Once the government shutdown starts hitting where it hurts, the Senate is going to be a lot more motivated to re-open the government.
A shutdown ended by concession will start right back up again the next time Donald doesn't get his Happy Meal. It will drag on for the rest of his term.
Posts
Both my senators are dems so....
Tell them you care anyway. They don't automatically know how public support is going.
Yeah, Dem Senators matter just as much. Stiffen their spines with yelling otherwise they might go soft reading all the DC insider bullshit op-eds.
THAT'S YOU! THAT'S YOU YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES! YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY!! YOU'RE THE CHECK ON THE EXECUTIVE!!! YOU SPENT 8 YEARS BEING OBSTINATE TWITS AGAINST OBAMA, DO NOT TELL ME YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!!!!!
Why the FUCK isn’t there a never-ending dialogue about how this is all on Mitch not bringing up the vote that already passed? Fuck, why isn’t that vote already just accepted as having passed?? Argh, I am so fucking furious that Putin is pulling our country apart so easily by injecting this fucking worm into the Oval Office. I’m equally frustrated to find out just how barely held together out government really is, when all it takes to destroy it is a pair of jack holes in the right positions saying “let’s shut this down, eh?”
McConnell’s job is to serve the American people.
Instead, he is serving his party and himself.
It really is that simple.
As Senate majority leader, he is also supposed to serve the interests of the Republican senators. He isn't doing a great job at that either.
It's less explicit than that. Whoever is presiding over the Senate sets the agenda, per the Senate rules.
Pence could roll up and take over (VP constitutionally is president of the Senate). Absent that, it falls to ePresident Pro Tempore. Or majority leader, as is more often the case
e: so yes, either of Pence or Grassley could overrule McConnell and say "no we're voting on this" but neither will.
It isnt that unilateral and Mitch is doing exactly what the other Rep senators want him to.
At any point 51 people can vote for leadership positions and toss mitch out. But no republican wants to be the one that crosses the line and votes for schumer because that would end their political career.
Such they hide behind mitch. They get to say both that they are against the shutdown and also not break ranks and alienate the base and also lets them attack someone who isnt Trump. “If only mitch would let us vote” they say weakly while giving him the thumbs up behind their back.
Its the same kind of thing that goes on in whip counts. “We need x votes but the thing is kind of unpopular we have to decide who gets to vote no and look like theyre taking a principled stand while making sure the thing still passes.”
Given the CR previously passed 100-0 this is highly fucking debatable.
It was passed with unanimous consent when the President said he supported it at the time. After his most recent renege literally in between that vote and the House vote it changed their incentives.
Yup. Their priorities are:
1) Getting reelected
2) having a functioning government
in that order.
When Trump was gonna sign the CR, they voted for it because 2. Once he came out against it, they won't because 1.
As always, the electorate is the ultimate problem here. Hence my "look left, look right, one of those people 100% supports this" from two pages ago. The outsize power some geographic areas have in the Senate is another matter, but even in Seattle I've noticed an uptick in open Trump support over the last couple years. Mitch does what he does because the voters...both his own and the voters for every Republican Senator who is not overriding him as we speak...support this. This strategy has enough popular support that he can do this, if that support gets low enough it no longer works.
That even more "balanced" news outlets like the AP have normalized this strategy doesn't help.
Everything the Senate does or does not do is with the consent of the electorate. The President has not been removed because there is insufficient popular support or sufficient popular opposition for that action. The government is shut down for the exact same reason.
I feel like any Republican, even Murkowski, who participated in a coup with the Democrats to remove the current Republican Leadership in the Senate and bypass the President would never get relected again.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
With great power comes great repsonsibiity, and no one else wants the responsibility, so they'll settle for moderate power and avoiding the blame.
What power? The Dems are blocking their ability to do anything substantial until this shit is sorted.
you forgot the /s tag there
If they can find a retiring senator who doesn’t need to be afraid of Trump then they could go for it.
The 11 just seated don't need to be afraid of him, neither, really, do the 22 seated two years ago.
The party only works because libertarians agree to back the shitty ideas of social conservatives and vice versa. They [wisely?] fear breaking ranks, period.
Republicans didn't oppose Trump because they didn't like his policies, they opposed him because they didn't think he would win against Clinton.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
He's not so different from most of the Republicans, he just has bad manners
Was specifically talking about taking Senate majority leader, and why no one else wants it. Much like Ryan as house speaker, much easier to claim you would do something than be responsible for making it happen.
I think I've said this before somewhere here, but I don't think the Republican Party actually understands or believes that anymore.
Constitutionally? Yeah, sure, Congress is an equal branch (Legislative) that serves as a check on the Executive and the Judiciary.
But their party dynamic is a lot stronger in their professional lives than their roles as lawmakers. And under the current set up, Donald Trump is effectively head of the Republican Party.
And the Republican Party is, at its core, an authoritarian hierarchical organization. You may get rumblings, and at the start of this whole nightmare there was probably talk about how they'd make Trump work for the party, etc. etc.
But in the end: He's the top of their hierarchy, and even if they could get past that they're scared stupid of him directing the base against defectors and detractors within the party.
So they fall in line, because they're believers or scared of reprisal from a man whose mantra has for years been how much he loves reprisals
That’s the only thing that’s going to fix this country.
- Thoughts of a “recalcitrant leftist”
Because the script says the hero wins. How that comes about surely doesn't matter. It will all just work out with winner-genes.
I don't think Trump has ever spoken in front of an audience that openly dislikes him. (Aside from the occasional protester). As far as he's aware, people go apeshit when he speaks.
Their script says the winner is the hero. Slight difference. It's a variant on the prosperity gospel.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
The people being hurt will be hurt more if the GOP can just shut down the government over any toddler temper tantrum
No, no, they assumed that public opinion would be on their side before the fact, even though the plan was to throw some estranging idiot in front of the cameras to make croaking noises.
We keep the government shut down until Trump is out of office, however that comes about, even if it takes six years.
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