On one hand, I don't mind the President having folksy or informal events (in the right context).
On the other hand, if I was invited to the White House for a once-in-a-lifetime fancy banquet and it was a table full of fucking Big Macs I would be so disappointed.
Does he think he can get McDonald's to sponsor The Wall™, brought to you by McDonald's ®?
Has there been anything new from the group including Manchin about creating some sort of face saving bullshit to pretend that nobody caved and we can have a Government again?
I don't feel like I heard anything about talks for the government to reopen. Congress and the Senate are in session and back to work right?
McConnel wont work on anything without Trumps approval, and Trump wont approve anything that isn’t already worked out.
The US Government is caught in the catch 22 of Trumps laziness and vanity, and McConnels fecklessness and ambition.
Don't forget the Democrats have taken the reasonable position of no legislation other than fixing the shutdown (or parts thereof, like guaranteeing most furloghs get paid).
So McConnell is well and truly fucked. He can't do anything non-shutdown related, and he can't do anything shutdown related, because the wall is a non-starter for Democrats, and no wall is a non-starter for Trump.
But, he's also the only person who CAN do something.
McConnell already did his signature punt, he has made it clear it is not his problem to deal with.
It is his problem. He needs to put on his big turtle pants and send Trump a clean bill to sign, but he won't because while he is shrewd, he is in his heart of hearts, a coward.
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
McConnell has to have an announcement at some point. I simply don't see how this is tenable
Here is the way the US government works.
1) Nobody can make the house of representatives do ANYTHING they don't want to. The senate can vote 100-0 for something with a direct mandate from the president and if the dems don't want it, it's not happening.
2) Nobody can make the US Senate do ANYTHING they don't want to. The house can vote 535-0 for something with a direct mandate from the president and if the republicans don't want it, it's not happening.
3) The President can be overridden by 2/3 vote in each house. If 2/3 of each house agrees they want something, then the Presidents opinion is irrelevant.
4) The Democrats in the house have said they will NEVER give Trump money for a wall.
5) Trump has said he will NEVER re-open the government without wall money.
6) The Senate has indicated 100-0 that it would happily fund the government without wall money until January.
There is literally only one way out, and that is to have congress (specifically the Senate) overrule Trump. Either McConnell has a vote, or the country is at an end.
McConnell wants the base back. And the only way to get the base back is to make their whitest of White Knights the fall guy. Let this go past missed paycheck #2, even let it affect SNAP and TANF benefits next month; when the deep red south loses its food stamps and starts to hurt they'll be ready to burn anyone they have to, to get them back. When Lindsay Graham's seat is in jeopardy because nobody got their WIC benefits and the phones in his office are melting, he'll abandon that ship like the rat he is. Then you pass the wall-free budget and override the Trump veto and make sure the base knows, you passed the bill because you had their best interests at heart, not Trump. Trump's an out of touch billionaire willing to let them suffer. He misled them, he misled all Republicans. You're not passing this bill because the Democrats want to, you're passing it for all good, wholesome Republicans everywhere.
This also has the knock-on effect of, when the Mueller report comes out, the base isn't exactly upset when you impeach the guy who was willing to let them go hungry over a wall. Then Pence muddles about for two years, you let him lose in 2020, you obstruct 4 years of a Democrat presidency, and you're back in charge by 2024.
That's what I'd do at least, if I was a piece of shit and facing the Kobayashi Maru of politics.
matt has a problem on
+25
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Graham should already be feeling pressure from his own constituency because farmers are starting to get tooled over by all this. It's why he's making it a point to say he won't be swayed by "outside" pressure and the like. It's a deflection but he knows the shit is gonna come down soon.
McConnell wants the base back. And the only way to get the base back is to make their whitest of White Knights the fall guy. Let this go past missed paycheck #2, even let it affect SNAP and TANF benefits next month; when the deep red south loses its food stamps and starts to hurt they'll be ready to burn anyone they have to, to get them back. When Lindsay Graham's seat is in jeopardy because nobody got their WIC benefits and the phones in his office are melting, he'll abandon that ship like the rat he is. Then you pass the wall-free budget and override the Trump veto and make sure the base knows, you passed the bill because you had their best interests at heart, not Trump. Trump's an out of touch billionaire willing to let them suffer. He misled them, he misled all Republicans. You're not passing this bill because the Democrats want to, you're passing it for all good, wholesome Republicans everywhere.
This also has the knock-on effect of, when the Mueller report comes out, the base isn't exactly upset when you impeach the guy who was willing to let them go hungry over a wall. Then Pence muddles about for two years, you let him lose in 2020, you obstruct 4 years of a Democrat presidency, and you're back in charge by 2024.
That's what I'd do at least, if I was a piece of shit and facing the Kobayashi Maru of politics.
It's almost beautiful; Mitch would effectively sit back and let the base turn on the man who stole them from the establishment and wasted time and effort on insane gambits like blind firing tariffs in every direction and undermining american credibility with it's sphere of influence.
Hell, he might even be able to spin this in a way that the democrats consider him someone they can do buisness with and the 24 hours walking back negative feedback on his soulessness.
Just boggles my mind that Trump is so willing to die on this hill. There are numbers indicating this is even hurting him with his base now, and that will only get worse the longer this drags on. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound. But then, nobody ever accused him of being a rational actor.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Just boggles my mind that Trump is so willing to die on this hill. There are numbers indicating this is even hurting him with his base now, and that will only get worse the longer this drags on. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound. But then, nobody ever accused him of being a rational actor.
The Wall was his one huge, memorable campaign promise. His big applause line (besides Lock Her Up).
I don't think Trump cares much about his credibility, but The Wall is so closely entwined with his presidency that it kind of is the one hill he has to die on.
Also, Trump's a racist, old idiot so he probably also really wants The Wall to keep out The Other.
Every story about the shutdown is not a story about Maria Butina, or Paul Manafort, or any other piece of the Mueller investigation. It's not a story about Trump being a Russian agent.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump tries to keep the shutdown going until he's out of office, one way or another.
To be fair, the major stories I saw on CNN last night were: Trump as Russian Agent; Barr having a potential conflict re: Mueller investigation; subpoena for the interpreter.
Shutdown-as-distraction may be working slightly, but it certainly isn’t succeeding, if that makes sense.
To be fair, the major stories I saw on CNN last night were: Trump as Russian Agent; Barr having a potential conflict re: Mueller investigation; subpoena for the interpreter.
Shutdown-as-distraction may be working slightly, but it certainly isn’t succeeding, if that makes sense.
If anything I think the Mueller stuff is distracting from the shutdown. :razz:
Just boggles my mind that Trump is so willing to die on this hill. There are numbers indicating this is even hurting him with his base now, and that will only get worse the longer this drags on. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound. But then, nobody ever accused him of being a rational Q actor.
Graham already painted him into a corner with the "wall or bust" statement he put out saying that if Trump backs down over this issue this time that his Presidency is effectively over.
To be fair, the major stories I saw on CNN last night were: Trump as Russian Agent; Barr having a potential conflict re: Mueller investigation; subpoena for the interpreter.
Shutdown-as-distraction may be working slightly, but it certainly isn’t succeeding, if that makes sense.
I’m not sure who the shutdown is supposed to be distracting, cause this has caused Trump to poll underwater with his base, making the shutdown a pretty shitty distraction.
That said, there’s no strategy here. The mean TV people said Trump has a tiny penis and he now has to prove he’s the biggest ever. That’s all this is.
Mild Confusion on
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
+12
Options
TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Yeah it's not even really distracting the new networks.
They weighed the shutdown in one hand and the increasingly more likely chance that the President is actually compromised by Russia/actively working with Russia and went "yeah no the shutdown isn't all that exciting at the moment"
Now we need to end the shutdown because another caravan is coming and the only thing that will stop this second caravan, is a thing we didn't have in place for the first one that was coming a couple months ago.
A big new Caravan is heading up to our Southern Border from Honduras. Tell Nancy and Chuck that a drone flying around will not stop them. Only a Wall will work. Only a Wall, or Steel Barrier, will keep our Country safe! Stop playing political games and end the Shutdown!
McConnell wants the base back. And the only way to get the base back is to make their whitest of White Knights the fall guy. Let this go past missed paycheck #2, even let it affect SNAP and TANF benefits next month; when the deep red south loses its food stamps and starts to hurt they'll be ready to burn anyone they have to, to get them back. When Lindsay Graham's seat is in jeopardy because nobody got their WIC benefits and the phones in his office are melting, he'll abandon that ship like the rat he is. Then you pass the wall-free budget and override the Trump veto and make sure the base knows, you passed the bill because you had their best interests at heart, not Trump. Trump's an out of touch billionaire willing to let them suffer. He misled them, he misled all Republicans. You're not passing this bill because the Democrats want to, you're passing it for all good, wholesome Republicans everywhere.
This also has the knock-on effect of, when the Mueller report comes out, the base isn't exactly upset when you impeach the guy who was willing to let them go hungry over a wall. Then Pence muddles about for two years, you let him lose in 2020, you obstruct 4 years of a Democrat presidency, and you're back in charge by 2024.
That's what I'd do at least, if I was a piece of shit and facing the Kobayashi Maru of politics.
The unfortunate thing is that you run into the Nixon/Vietnam problem. McConnell’s optimal strategy is ultimately good for everyone, but the optimal time to play that strategy involves waiting until significant numbers of people get hurt unnecessarily to maximize personal gain.
Assuming McConnell is at least moderately sociopathic, which is a safe assumption at this point there are a bunch of people going to get hurt in the short and long run for basically no other reason than to give the Republican party and McConnell specifically a better chance at the 2020 and 2024.
and that 5 billion dollars would barely cover the surveying work for your wall much less build any of it
Yes the fact that $5 Billion dollars wouldn't actually get him any kind of wall is sadly missing from the discourse on this issue. When it should be one of the main points, that he's keeping us shutdown for something that even if he got it, wouldn't be enough to do what he wants to do.
I’m unsure if Nixon/Vietnam in an analogy is the best example of long term good, even from a purely GOP perspective.
The man sabotaged peace talks to win influence one election, making the war longer, then tried to steal the next election. You could make a straight line between Nixon to Trump, which alone wouldn’t make it an overall good.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Its pirely symbolic at this point. He knows he's not getting his wall but getting the 5 billion will give him enough cover with his base to say he did.
and that 5 billion dollars would barely cover the surveying work for your wall much less build any of it
Yes the fact that $5 Billion dollars wouldn't actually get him any kind of wall is sadly missing from the discourse on this issue. When it should be one of the main points, that he's keeping us shutdown for something that even if he got it, wouldn't be enough to do what he wants to do.
The $5 billion was always going to wind up being a down payment. If Trump gets his money he'll absolutely be asking for more almost immediately, and once there's some wall there will always be the opportunity to dump more and more money on it.
EDIT: Even further, it'll become the ever-project for Trump and all the racist d-bags in congress. Vote for me so we can finish the wall!
Just boggles my mind that Trump is so willing to die on this hill. There are numbers indicating this is even hurting him with his base now, and that will only get worse the longer this drags on. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound. But then, nobody ever accused him of being a rational Q actor.
Graham already painted him into a corner with the "wall or bust" statement he put out saying that if Trump backs down over this issue this time that his Presidency is effectively over.
Just boggles my mind that Trump is so willing to die on this hill. There are numbers indicating this is even hurting him with his base now, and that will only get worse the longer this drags on. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound. But then, nobody ever accused him of being a rational Q actor.
Graham already painted him into a corner with the "wall or bust" statement he put out saying that if Trump backs down over this issue this time that his Presidency is effectively over.
I fail to see the issue here.
Trump will pick "wall" at all costs. Mainly because he doesn't have to pay.
$174k a year is unlikely to be more than enough to make them more than middle class even if they are in Congress for a good period of time.
Given they are pretty much required to have two residences one of which in DC that kind of pay is not that out of line. If that is all you have it puts you into the upper side of the middle class but the whole needing two places of residence eats a lot of that depending where your home is.
$174k a year is unlikely to be more than enough to make them more than middle class even if they are in Congress for a good period of time.
Given they are pretty much required to have two residences one of which in DC that kind of pay is not that out of line. If that is all you have it puts you into the upper side of the middle class but the whole needing two places of residence eats a lot of that depending where your home is.
They also need to constantly travel between them, don't they? Plane tickets must add up.
Any discussion about how to make shutdowns even harder to handle would more productively focus on ways to never have another shutdown.
The reason that this is going on so long isn't because the pain isn't severe enough. It's because Republicans have spent time deadening those nerves.
Yep. If we are going to change laws making Congress's appropriations nullified or just elected representative's salaries tied to the passing of budget bills...how about changing laws to make this literally impossible instead? Same with the debt ceiling increase. There are numerous ways to do it, and I'm sure plenty of clever staffers who can come up with some good ones without bad incentives as well.
Posts
On the other hand, if I was invited to the White House for a once-in-a-lifetime fancy banquet and it was a table full of fucking Big Macs I would be so disappointed.
Does he think he can get McDonald's to sponsor The Wall™, brought to you by McDonald's ®?
The former, yes.
The latter... Eeeeh....
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
McConnel wont work on anything without Trumps approval, and Trump wont approve anything that isn’t already worked out.
The US Government is caught in the catch 22 of Trumps laziness and vanity, and McConnels fecklessness and ambition.
MWO: Adamski
Don't forget the Democrats have taken the reasonable position of no legislation other than fixing the shutdown (or parts thereof, like guaranteeing most furloghs get paid).
So McConnell is well and truly fucked. He can't do anything non-shutdown related, and he can't do anything shutdown related, because the wall is a non-starter for Democrats, and no wall is a non-starter for Trump.
But, he's also the only person who CAN do something.
So... the wolf is Trump's base, and Trump is the cabbage?
And the answer is you then sink the boat?
Here is the way the US government works.
1) Nobody can make the house of representatives do ANYTHING they don't want to. The senate can vote 100-0 for something with a direct mandate from the president and if the dems don't want it, it's not happening.
2) Nobody can make the US Senate do ANYTHING they don't want to. The house can vote 535-0 for something with a direct mandate from the president and if the republicans don't want it, it's not happening.
3) The President can be overridden by 2/3 vote in each house. If 2/3 of each house agrees they want something, then the Presidents opinion is irrelevant.
4) The Democrats in the house have said they will NEVER give Trump money for a wall.
5) Trump has said he will NEVER re-open the government without wall money.
6) The Senate has indicated 100-0 that it would happily fund the government without wall money until January.
There is literally only one way out, and that is to have congress (specifically the Senate) overrule Trump. Either McConnell has a vote, or the country is at an end.
This also has the knock-on effect of, when the Mueller report comes out, the base isn't exactly upset when you impeach the guy who was willing to let them go hungry over a wall. Then Pence muddles about for two years, you let him lose in 2020, you obstruct 4 years of a Democrat presidency, and you're back in charge by 2024.
That's what I'd do at least, if I was a piece of shit and facing the Kobayashi Maru of politics.
It's almost beautiful; Mitch would effectively sit back and let the base turn on the man who stole them from the establishment and wasted time and effort on insane gambits like blind firing tariffs in every direction and undermining american credibility with it's sphere of influence.
Hell, he might even be able to spin this in a way that the democrats consider him someone they can do buisness with and the 24 hours walking back negative feedback on his soulessness.
The Wall was his one huge, memorable campaign promise. His big applause line (besides Lock Her Up).
I don't think Trump cares much about his credibility, but The Wall is so closely entwined with his presidency that it kind of is the one hill he has to die on.
Also, Trump's a racist, old idiot so he probably also really wants The Wall to keep out The Other.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump tries to keep the shutdown going until he's out of office, one way or another.
Shutdown-as-distraction may be working slightly, but it certainly isn’t succeeding, if that makes sense.
If anything I think the Mueller stuff is distracting from the shutdown. :razz:
Graham already painted him into a corner with the "wall or bust" statement he put out saying that if Trump backs down over this issue this time that his Presidency is effectively over.
I’m not sure who the shutdown is supposed to be distracting, cause this has caused Trump to poll underwater with his base, making the shutdown a pretty shitty distraction.
That said, there’s no strategy here. The mean TV people said Trump has a tiny penis and he now has to prove he’s the biggest ever. That’s all this is.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
They weighed the shutdown in one hand and the increasingly more likely chance that the President is actually compromised by Russia/actively working with Russia and went "yeah no the shutdown isn't all that exciting at the moment"
The unfortunate thing is that you run into the Nixon/Vietnam problem. McConnell’s optimal strategy is ultimately good for everyone, but the optimal time to play that strategy involves waiting until significant numbers of people get hurt unnecessarily to maximize personal gain.
Assuming McConnell is at least moderately sociopathic, which is a safe assumption at this point there are a bunch of people going to get hurt in the short and long run for basically no other reason than to give the Republican party and McConnell specifically a better chance at the 2020 and 2024.
Yes the fact that $5 Billion dollars wouldn't actually get him any kind of wall is sadly missing from the discourse on this issue. When it should be one of the main points, that he's keeping us shutdown for something that even if he got it, wouldn't be enough to do what he wants to do.
The man sabotaged peace talks to win influence one election, making the war longer, then tried to steal the next election. You could make a straight line between Nixon to Trump, which alone wouldn’t make it an overall good.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
The $5 billion was always going to wind up being a down payment. If Trump gets his money he'll absolutely be asking for more almost immediately, and once there's some wall there will always be the opportunity to dump more and more money on it.
EDIT: Even further, it'll become the ever-project for Trump and all the racist d-bags in congress. Vote for me so we can finish the wall!
There is already plenty of wall he could use for that! Victory could already be declared!
I fail to see the issue here.
Trump will pick "wall" at all costs. Mainly because he doesn't have to pay.
Given they are pretty much required to have two residences one of which in DC that kind of pay is not that out of line. If that is all you have it puts you into the upper side of the middle class but the whole needing two places of residence eats a lot of that depending where your home is.
They also need to constantly travel between them, don't they? Plane tickets must add up.
The reason that this is going on so long isn't because the pain isn't severe enough. It's because Republicans have spent time deadening those nerves.
Yep. If we are going to change laws making Congress's appropriations nullified or just elected representative's salaries tied to the passing of budget bills...how about changing laws to make this literally impossible instead? Same with the debt ceiling increase. There are numerous ways to do it, and I'm sure plenty of clever staffers who can come up with some good ones without bad incentives as well.