I don't think Jiren was really supposed to be a character, he's more of a force of nature to be overcome. I think he functioned in the plot really well, I'm not looking for a Jiren spin-off but I think most of the reason the last arc is so good is because of Jiren. It's the first time they've really done an absolutely stoic, implacable villain.
He’s a nice contrast of past DBZ big bads. Even before his “ I need to be strong alone” character wrinkle.
Just a big block of meat that’s literally the strongest and no one can beat him alone.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They gave him better motivation in the manga, but they gave him zero personality or Pathos in the show.
Jiren did not fight enough through the arc to really sell the force of nature aspect to me.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
They gave him better motivation in the manga, but they gave him zero personality or Pathos in the show.
Jiren did not fight enough through the arc to really sell the force of nature aspect to me.
If I had a complaint they didn’t sell the immutability of Jiren’s inevitability ENOUGH.
Even a big block of meat with no personality or pathos can bring alot out of your characters , in how they deal with it.
Which they eventually went for, but the whole UI thing really killed it.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They gave him better motivation in the manga, but they gave him zero personality or Pathos in the show.
Jiren did not fight enough through the arc to really sell the force of nature aspect to me.
If I had a complaint they didn’t sell the immutability of Jiren’s inevitability ENOUGH.
Even a big block of meat with no personality or pathos can bring alot out of your characters , in how they deal with it.
Which they eventually went for, but the whole UI thing really killed it.
If big strong dudes who took out universe 7’s dudes kept falling in droves to Jared it would have done a lot.
But no, he basically sits around and does nothing for half the arc, tanks the spirit bomb, and then tussles with imperfect UI Goku, then sits around until the end fight.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think they thought Jared( He is Jared now I accept this) taking care of The best Broly, Kale would justify him sitting around but that did not work at all.
Honestly, the spirit bomb moment made me love him.
"Oh you've got a massively powerful attack that takes five minutes to charge? Good for you! I'll wait right here while you charge it up."
That was also before he did his whole sitting around charging thing for ages though, that definitely took a bit of the wind out of his sails.
I am going to the Broly premier tonight after work and you BET YOUR ASS I’m gonna be taking notes.
Berserk Kale vs Super Broly is going to be a Dragonball debate of LEGENDARY(heh) proportions.
My initial stance is Berserk Kale=Canon Broly.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Berserk Kale is stronger than SSBKK Goku.
Which autocorrect tried to make Gorky just now.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Add the worst character for the next batch of dlc. We all know the one.
Arale is the worst
+1
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Kefla is stronger than imperfect UI.
She just wasn’t faster. For some reason.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+1
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Jiren's problem could have been resolved by the same general problem the anime had: the "battle royale" had everyone get beaten by Universe 7 (and/or some cases of Universe 6).
Don't get me wrong: I enjoy the fights we got. But have Jiren like....decide to meditate in the middle of the arena and some jobbers attack him and get auto-KO'd by his aura without him even stopping meditating or something. Have something ala what the manga did with Kale where everyone we don't care about just gets blown away by her power.
Give some build-up before the fight, damnit. Show, don't tell.
The only imax theater around here has exactly ONE showing, today at 7:30. But the rest of the standard theaters are pretty much booked solid through at least Sunday. It's crazy!
Add the worst character for the next batch of dlc. We all know the one.
Arale is the worst
You shut your gat damn mouth.
The. Worst.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
That movie's a lot of fun! It's definitely the best Dragon Ball movie by a thousand miles, and I say that as someone who's seen all of them except for the one with Lord Slug. Battle of the Gods is pretty OK, Resurrection F was a big fart, but this? This was actually good. It might be my favorite Dragon Ball thing.
I'll post fuller thoughts on it later, but I just want to put out there that, yes, they have definitely settled that thorny argument
So I have a question for those of y'all who have watched Dragon Ball Super (because for some reason the only thing I've seen of it is the movies, still)
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
So there's a part where Broly just beats Goku. I don't mean "defeats," I mean he thrashes him bodily until he loses consciousness. Goku literally faints from this ass-whooping, and is unconscious for several seconds. At this point Goku is red, the Super Saiyan God
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
So I have a question for those of y'all who have watched Dragon Ball Super (because for some reason the only thing I've seen of it is the movies, still)
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
So there's a part where Broly just beats Goku. I don't mean "defeats," I mean he thrashes him bodily until he loses consciousness. Goku literally faints from this ass-whooping, and is unconscious for several seconds. At this point Goku is red, the Super Saiyan God
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
Ultra Instinct is a level of like, bodily transcendence that anybody can theoretically attain, but to date Goku's the only mortal to pull it off
It's a point where your mind and body have fallen perfectly in sync, to the point where you're not even thinking about your movements, you're just fighting on raw, well, instinct.
it boosts goku's speed way more than it boosts his strength, and in the show anyway makes him effectively untouchable. the downside is that, like a few other things before it, it's a massive energy drain. he's literally just venting heat constantly while in that state, to the point where everyone in the surrounding area feels hot while it's active. he also hasn't learned how to do it on command, and only slips into it when he's pushed to his absolute limit, which gets harder and harder to do every time because achieving Ultra Instinct expands what his limits are.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
So I have a question for those of y'all who have watched Dragon Ball Super (because for some reason the only thing I've seen of it is the movies, still)
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
So there's a part where Broly just beats Goku. I don't mean "defeats," I mean he thrashes him bodily until he loses consciousness. Goku literally faints from this ass-whooping, and is unconscious for several seconds. At this point Goku is red, the Super Saiyan God
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
Ultra Instinct is a level of like, bodily transcendence that anybody can theoretically attain, but to date Goku's the only mortal to pull it off
It's a point where your mind and body have fallen perfectly in sync, to the point where you're not even thinking about your movements, you're just fighting on raw, well, instinct.
it boosts goku's speed way more than it boosts his strength, and in the show anyway makes him effectively untouchable. the downside is that, like a few other things before it, it's a massive energy drain. he's literally just venting heat constantly while in that state, to the point where everyone in the surrounding area feels hot while it's active. he also hasn't learned how to do it on command, and only slips into it when he's pushed to his absolute limit, which gets harder and harder to do every time because achieving Ultra Instinct expands what his limits are.
So it might be a visual indicator that he's at his absolute limit in that fight, if we want to read it as meaningful instead of being an Easter egg?
So I have a question for those of y'all who have watched Dragon Ball Super (because for some reason the only thing I've seen of it is the movies, still)
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
So there's a part where Broly just beats Goku. I don't mean "defeats," I mean he thrashes him bodily until he loses consciousness. Goku literally faints from this ass-whooping, and is unconscious for several seconds. At this point Goku is red, the Super Saiyan God
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
Ultra Instinct is a level of like, bodily transcendence that anybody can theoretically attain, but to date Goku's the only mortal to pull it off
It's a point where your mind and body have fallen perfectly in sync, to the point where you're not even thinking about your movements, you're just fighting on raw, well, instinct.
it boosts goku's speed way more than it boosts his strength, and in the show anyway makes him effectively untouchable. the downside is that, like a few other things before it, it's a massive energy drain. he's literally just venting heat constantly while in that state, to the point where everyone in the surrounding area feels hot while it's active. he also hasn't learned how to do it on command, and only slips into it when he's pushed to his absolute limit, which gets harder and harder to do every time because achieving Ultra Instinct expands what his limits are.
So it might be a visual indicator that he's at his absolute limit in that fight, if we want to read it as meaningful instead of being an Easter egg?
pretty much, yeah
the first time he reaches ultra instinct, it's when jiren no-sells a spirit bomb and throws it back at him, and his body absorbs the full energy of the bomb
So I have a question for those of y'all who have watched Dragon Ball Super (because for some reason the only thing I've seen of it is the movies, still)
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
So there's a part where Broly just beats Goku. I don't mean "defeats," I mean he thrashes him bodily until he loses consciousness. Goku literally faints from this ass-whooping, and is unconscious for several seconds. At this point Goku is red, the Super Saiyan God
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
Ultra Instinct is a level of like, bodily transcendence that anybody can theoretically attain, but to date Goku's the only mortal to pull it off
It's a point where your mind and body have fallen perfectly in sync, to the point where you're not even thinking about your movements, you're just fighting on raw, well, instinct.
it boosts goku's speed way more than it boosts his strength, and in the show anyway makes him effectively untouchable. the downside is that, like a few other things before it, it's a massive energy drain. he's literally just venting heat constantly while in that state, to the point where everyone in the surrounding area feels hot while it's active. he also hasn't learned how to do it on command, and only slips into it when he's pushed to his absolute limit, which gets harder and harder to do every time because achieving Ultra Instinct expands what his limits are.
So it might be a visual indicator that he's at his absolute limit in that fight, if we want to read it as meaningful instead of being an Easter egg?
pretty much, yeah
the first time he reaches ultra instinct, it's when jiren no-sells a spirit bomb and throws it back at him, and his body absorbs the full energy of the bomb
From a translation I read from one of the animators he is not in UI in that scene. They stated the staff wanted to toy around with different transformation effects to make transforming feel more spectacular.
So I have a question for those of y'all who have watched Dragon Ball Super (because for some reason the only thing I've seen of it is the movies, still)
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
So there's a part where Broly just beats Goku. I don't mean "defeats," I mean he thrashes him bodily until he loses consciousness. Goku literally faints from this ass-whooping, and is unconscious for several seconds. At this point Goku is red, the Super Saiyan God
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
It's kind of a sputtering old car. It happens more when he takes bigger beatings. If it means anything, probably that he's getting used to it and more stronger.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Wyborn, what's your opinion on Dead Zone and World's Strongest? Cause those are generally considered the best Non Battle of Gods Dragonball movies.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Wyborn, what's your opinion on Dead Zone and World's Strongest? Cause those are generally considered the best Non Battle of Gods Dragonball movies.
Those are definitely the ones I would consider best before this; both of them have sequences (Chichi moving to defend Gohan, Roshi actually doing something noble instead of being a dirtbag) that were my genuine favorite scenes in Dragon Ball when I was a kid
BOTG was probably better than them, I'd have to go back and watch, but those were the two DBZ movies that I'd actually revisit if I had the opportunity to do so
My understanding is that Ultra Instinct is kinda there because Goku et. al are at the limits of what their body can do. That'll probably be retconned of course but it's what King Kai said after he did Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken X 10 or something and ended up physically broken afterwards and not able to even fly. Ultra Instinct takes some of the power scaling off the table. I do miss those initial days of the awe of turning into a Super Saiyan.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
World's Strongest and Deadzone have probably the best group fights in the series.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
My understanding is that Ultra Instinct is kinda there because Goku et. al are at the limits of what their body can do. That'll probably be retconned of course but it's what King Kai said after he did Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken X 10 or something and ended up physically broken afterwards and not able to even fly. Ultra Instinct takes some of the power scaling off the table. I do miss those initial days of the awe of turning into a Super Saiyan.
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I want Jiren though because he introduced 'punching you a hundred times with his mind' which is so super cool
also tiencha
I read this as a single fighter idea and, well, if it's good enough for the Pilaf Gang....
He’s a nice contrast of past DBZ big bads. Even before his “ I need to be strong alone” character wrinkle.
Just a big block of meat that’s literally the strongest and no one can beat him alone.
Jiren did not fight enough through the arc to really sell the force of nature aspect to me.
If I had a complaint they didn’t sell the immutability of Jiren’s inevitability ENOUGH.
Even a big block of meat with no personality or pathos can bring alot out of your characters , in how they deal with it.
Which they eventually went for, but the whole UI thing really killed it.
If big strong dudes who took out universe 7’s dudes kept falling in droves to Jared it would have done a lot.
But no, he basically sits around and does nothing for half the arc, tanks the spirit bomb, and then tussles with imperfect UI Goku, then sits around until the end fight.
"Oh you've got a massively powerful attack that takes five minutes to charge? Good for you! I'll wait right here while you charge it up."
That was also before he did his whole sitting around charging thing for ages though, that definitely took a bit of the wind out of his sails.
Berserk Kale vs Super Broly is going to be a Dragonball debate of LEGENDARY(heh) proportions.
My initial stance is Berserk Kale=Canon Broly.
Which autocorrect tried to make Gorky just now.
Yeah, pretty much the only thing that would convince me they aren’t nigh identical is if UI pops up in the movie.
For now the Super scales seems to be UI/Jiren trying>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Berserk Kale/Canon Broly>>>>>SSBK Goku and Royal Blu Vegeta.
With imperfect UI and Kefla in the middle of the Jiren/Kale gap.
She just wasn’t faster. For some reason.
You shut your gat damn mouth.
Don't get me wrong: I enjoy the fights we got. But have Jiren like....decide to meditate in the middle of the arena and some jobbers attack him and get auto-KO'd by his aura without him even stopping meditating or something. Have something ala what the manga did with Kale where everyone we don't care about just gets blown away by her power.
Give some build-up before the fight, damnit. Show, don't tell.
The. Worst.
Oh shitfuck.
*checks*
Oh hey, literally one seat left at the only theater I can get too.
Thanks, Javen.
That movie's a lot of fun! It's definitely the best Dragon Ball movie by a thousand miles, and I say that as someone who's seen all of them except for the one with Lord Slug. Battle of the Gods is pretty OK, Resurrection F was a big fart, but this? This was actually good. It might be my favorite Dragon Ball thing.
I'll post fuller thoughts on it later, but I just want to put out there that, yes, they have definitely settled that thorny argument
There's a moment in the movie that was clearly meant to represent something, but I couldn't really tell what.
Keep in mind, for some of you this probably counts as a real spoiler:
A psychic conversation with Piccolo picks him up out of it, and he spends like ten seconds getting to his feet. When he stands he powers up again, there's a period of about a full second where he takes on what I recognize from photos as Ultra Instinct—silver hair, white aura—beofre shifting into the Blue state. He's red, flashes the instinct, then goes blue. He seems fully healed, as well as being way way way way way stronger than before
What does that flash mean? Are all those memes about "darn that Son Goku how many times is he going to break his limits" actually a thing in the mechanics of the world now? Is Ultra Instinct, in addition to being Spider-Sense for Saiyans, also a thing that lets him push past what's supposed to be the upper limits of his strength and just raise the floor and ceiling of his power? Or does it just signify that he's being pushed to his absolute limit? What is it.
It's a point where your mind and body have fallen perfectly in sync, to the point where you're not even thinking about your movements, you're just fighting on raw, well, instinct.
it boosts goku's speed way more than it boosts his strength, and in the show anyway makes him effectively untouchable. the downside is that, like a few other things before it, it's a massive energy drain. he's literally just venting heat constantly while in that state, to the point where everyone in the surrounding area feels hot while it's active. he also hasn't learned how to do it on command, and only slips into it when he's pushed to his absolute limit, which gets harder and harder to do every time because achieving Ultra Instinct expands what his limits are.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
The real question is is Blizzard better than Flow's Hero Song of Hope
the first time he reaches ultra instinct, it's when jiren no-sells a spirit bomb and throws it back at him, and his body absorbs the full energy of the bomb
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Those are definitely the ones I would consider best before this; both of them have sequences (Chichi moving to defend Gohan, Roshi actually doing something noble instead of being a dirtbag) that were my genuine favorite scenes in Dragon Ball when I was a kid
BOTG was probably better than them, I'd have to go back and watch, but those were the two DBZ movies that I'd actually revisit if I had the opportunity to do so
There Is Always Another Power Up