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Once more [Into The Breach], dear friends, once more;

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Got this game over Christmas, myself. Forgot there was a thread for it.
    To weigh in on the lighting whip discussion from a few pages ago, sure, you can look at it as "you might chain your whip through buildings into your own mechs", but I like to look at it as "you can chain your whip through your mechs into more groups of buildings." That's not a joke, there were a few genuinely useful times where there'd be like, one or two vek attacking one group of buildings, and one or two attacking another group, and I could deal more damage by not attacking with one of my other mechs and instead using their turn to move them into a position to allow the chain. Or even better, they just started the turn there and I can get the extra chain and then still attack with that mech.

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    WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    Got this game over Christmas, myself. Forgot there was a thread for it.
    To weigh in on the lighting whip discussion from a few pages ago, sure, you can look at it as "you might chain your whip through buildings into your own mechs", but I like to look at it as "you can chain your whip through your mechs into more groups of buildings." That's not a joke, there were a few genuinely useful times where there'd be like, one or two vek attacking one group of buildings, and one or two attacking another group, and I could deal more damage by not attacking with one of my other mechs and instead using their turn to move them into a position to allow the chain. Or even better, they just started the turn there and I can get the extra chain and then still attack with that mech.

    Yeah, one of the key concepts you have to learn to get good at this game is that anything less than lethal damage means nothing once the mission is over.

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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm finding I go through a bunch of different priorities. First, can I make this Vek hit another Vek? If not, can I make it hit nothing? Failing that, a mech, then a building, then an objective.

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    I think my priorities go something like stopping Vek from killing mechs> stopping Vek from destroying objectives> stopping Vek from damaging the grid> killing Vek> an ambiguous soup of avoiding mech damage, damaging but not killing Vek, and blocking emergences.

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    MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    WACriminal wrote: »
    cB557 wrote: »
    Got this game over Christmas, myself. Forgot there was a thread for it.
    To weigh in on the lighting whip discussion from a few pages ago, sure, you can look at it as "you might chain your whip through buildings into your own mechs", but I like to look at it as "you can chain your whip through your mechs into more groups of buildings." That's not a joke, there were a few genuinely useful times where there'd be like, one or two vek attacking one group of buildings, and one or two attacking another group, and I could deal more damage by not attacking with one of my other mechs and instead using their turn to move them into a position to allow the chain. Or even better, they just started the turn there and I can get the extra chain and then still attack with that mech.

    Yeah, one of the key concepts you have to learn to get good at this game is that anything less than lethal damage means nothing once the mission is over.

    At the same time, this is why I think of Blitzkrieg as a very tough mech team: they lack lethal stopping power until you upgrade the lightning mech to 3 damage. And when you do, suddenly, your partner mechs are one or two shots from death.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I just started playing this and was having a pretty tough time wrapping my head around what the hell was going on. Watched a few playthroughs and had some questions answered in the Indie thread, and now I think I'm catching on. Just finished the first island with a perfect score. Spent my upgrades on Cores, which seemed like a smart move.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I just started playing this and was having a pretty tough time wrapping my head around what the hell was going on. Watched a few playthroughs and had some questions answered in the Indie thread, and now I think I'm catching on. Just finished the first island with a perfect score. Spent my upgrades on Cores, which seemed like a smart move.

    Cores are the best purchase, usually.

    Some pilots are insanely good (there's one who can't be webbed or otherwise hindered, for instance). Sometimes you'll see a weapon that would make you unstoppable. But mostly cores.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    I'll usually buy an item or pilot or two each playthrough, but yeah, most of it's cores, and the leftovers go to grid power.

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    I saw this bit of advice the other day that I didn't think of on my own: island rep doesn't carry over from island to island, so you want to spend all of it - but sometimes there's nothing good. Well, you can buy a 1-rep pilot and then just sell him back for 1 rep at the next island. Not much, but better than nothing.

    Also, Dover, you got me playing this again and I really appreciate it. I've played this game a bunch, but I've only beaten it with like 2 teams. And I haven't even unlocked every team. So, now I've got goals.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I just started playing this and was having a pretty tough time wrapping my head around what the hell was going on. Watched a few playthroughs and had some questions answered in the Indie thread, and now I think I'm catching on. Just finished the first island with a perfect score. Spent my upgrades on Cores, which seemed like a smart move.

    Cores are the best purchase, usually.

    Some pilots are insanely good (there's one who can't be webbed or otherwise hindered, for instance). Sometimes you'll see a weapon that would make you unstoppable. But mostly cores.

    The launchable tanks are also really good. Action economy!

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    After finishing the first island, admitedly on Easy, I decided to:

    Buy 3 Cores
    Sell my Pilot
    Purchase a Jump/Smoke ability (?!)

    Bumped up the health of my Punchy and Ranged Mech and added the Smoke Jump to the other Mech.

    We'll see how island number 2 goes.

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    MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I just started playing this and was having a pretty tough time wrapping my head around what the hell was going on. Watched a few playthroughs and had some questions answered in the Indie thread, and now I think I'm catching on. Just finished the first island with a perfect score. Spent my upgrades on Cores, which seemed like a smart move.

    My general buying strategy is:

    1) buy your power back to max
    2) buy as many cores as possible, minus an absolutely GREAT upgrade or two in the shop
    3) all remaining points to increased resist chance.

    Sometimes I sacrifice an extra core for more resist chance, especially if I feel that I haven't gotten to Step 3 enough lately.

    That resist chance is so important. In the early islands it's an investment into later rep payoff when you don't lose hit points you'll have to buy back anyway. And in the final island it's basically extra hp over the course of those two maps.

    I've also never bought tanks. Maybe I should? I just feel that they're a huge investment. First, they're usually 2-3 extra cores just to get up and running. And they might mean extra action points - which is pretty cool and I can't argue with that! - but to get the most value out of them you're sacrificing one of your three mech's first or second action. Those are the most important actions - I'd say that every AP this turn is worth at least 20% more than an AP next turn - and the sooner you kill bugs the better. Maybe the push tank would be a good investment though, since so many times you can get early kills with pushes...

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Island 2 complete. Finished everything pretty much without fail, except on the final hit where I destroyed a bug and it exploded taking out a Solar Panel. I'd forgotten the turn prior the buffing bug appeared. I could have easily killed the buff bug, but I wanted to boost the XP on a pilot and got greedy. Thankfully it wasn't a Star and just a Lightning. :)

    Bought 3 more Cores and bumped up the damage of my long-range bomber Mech. Will jump to islands 3 and 4 next, although I'm wondering if maybe I shouldn't just go to the end now. I am playing on easy and probably should move on to normal already.

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    GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Musicool wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I just started playing this and was having a pretty tough time wrapping my head around what the hell was going on. Watched a few playthroughs and had some questions answered in the Indie thread, and now I think I'm catching on. Just finished the first island with a perfect score. Spent my upgrades on Cores, which seemed like a smart move.

    My general buying strategy is:

    1) buy your power back to max
    2) buy as many cores as possible, minus an absolutely GREAT upgrade or two in the shop
    3) all remaining points to increased resist chance.

    Sometimes I sacrifice an extra core for more resist chance, especially if I feel that I haven't gotten to Step 3 enough lately.

    That resist chance is so important. In the early islands it's an investment into later rep payoff when you don't lose hit points you'll have to buy back anyway. And in the final island it's basically extra hp over the course of those two maps.

    I've also never bought tanks. Maybe I should? I just feel that they're a huge investment. First, they're usually 2-3 extra cores just to get up and running. And they might mean extra action points - which is pretty cool and I can't argue with that! - but to get the most value out of them you're sacrificing one of your three mech's first or second action. Those are the most important actions - I'd say that every AP this turn is worth at least 20% more than an AP next turn - and the sooner you kill bugs the better. Maybe the push tank would be a good investment though, since so many times you can get early kills with pushes...

    Tanks get to take an action immediately, which is a huge factor in them being worthwhile. A tank action isn't worth as much as a mech action, but you can still move your mech to block + still get a tank action and that's pretty dang usable.

    Garthor on
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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Damn you guys.

    I was going to finish RDR2 Epilogue 2 this weekend, and now I guess I'm playing Into the Breach again.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    McFodder wrote: »
    Damn you guys.

    I was going to finish RDR2 Epilogue 2 this weekend, and now I guess I'm playing Into the Breach again.

    I have a feeling that this is all my fault. :)

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    @MNC Dover So, now that you're a Breach grandmaster, I'm curious: What (other than the difficulty setting) was the big difference between your first, unsuccessful outings and your current slay-a-thon? Was it just a bunch of little tactical mistakes that snowballed, or did seeing let's-plays/reading tips fundamentally change how you approach the game?

    Also, let me just warn you that moving the difficulty from Easy to Normal will - as I said - be a qualitative difference. More bugs per map means that the action economy changes drastically. You will need to squeeze multiple "effects" from each mech per turn. It won't be enough anymore to just hit a bug; you will need to position a mech to body-block a shot, shoot a bug, and line it up so that the shot pushes the bug into the path of another bug's attack. Blocking emerging Vek will become Very Good. Playing the objectives and accepting that you won't kill every Vek that emerges will become very important. It can get frustrating, but VERY satisfying when you make it work.

    Also, some of the Vek types only appear on higher difficulties, if I remember correctly.

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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    @MNC Dover So, now that you're a Breach grandmaster, I'm curious: What (other than the difficulty setting) was the big difference between your first, unsuccessful outings and your current slay-a-thon? Was it just a bunch of little tactical mistakes that snowballed, or did seeing let's-plays/reading tips fundamentally change how you approach the game?

    Also, let me just warn you that moving the difficulty from Easy to Normal will - as I said - be a qualitative difference. More bugs per map means that the action economy changes drastically. You will need to squeeze multiple "effects" from each mech per turn. It won't be enough anymore to just hit a bug; you will need to position a mech to body-block a shot, shoot a bug, and line it up so that the shot pushes the bug into the path of another bug's attack. Blocking emerging Vek will become Very Good. Playing the objectives and accepting that you won't kill every Vek that emerges will become very important. It can get frustrating, but VERY satisfying when you make it work.

    Also, some of the Vek types only appear on higher difficulties, if I remember correctly.

    I hate those rock making Vek so much.

    Well unless I'm using the lightning mech.

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    The lightning mech might be my favorite.

    Sometimes you get pretty painful situations with friendly fire, but sometimes you just destroy the world through good positioning.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Fire team has a science mech that comes with a teleport swap. It is probably the most OP mech in the game once upgraded.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    @MNC Dover So, now that you're a Breach grandmaster, I'm curious: What (other than the difficulty setting) was the big difference between your first, unsuccessful outings and your current slay-a-thon? Was it just a bunch of little tactical mistakes that snowballed, or did seeing let's-plays/reading tips fundamentally change how you approach the game?

    Also, let me just warn you that moving the difficulty from Easy to Normal will - as I said - be a qualitative difference. More bugs per map means that the action economy changes drastically. You will need to squeeze multiple "effects" from each mech per turn. It won't be enough anymore to just hit a bug; you will need to position a mech to body-block a shot, shoot a bug, and line it up so that the shot pushes the bug into the path of another bug's attack. Blocking emerging Vek will become Very Good. Playing the objectives and accepting that you won't kill every Vek that emerges will become very important. It can get frustrating, but VERY satisfying when you make it work.

    Also, some of the Vek types only appear on higher difficulties, if I remember correctly.

    A lot of it was the number of bugs on the board. In the easy play through, I had several turns where I just sat on spawn points and dealt with one bug at a time. In the normal run, this wasn't the case.

    Also, I've picked up tips and strats I didn't know possible, like targeting empty spaces to move bugs. Hopefully Normal will be, well easier, now that I've got some concepts under my belt.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2019
    Yeah, okay I get why this game is good now...


    Note: Not shown in the video was a flying 2-HP bug above where my punching Mech was standing. It was blocking the path of the Freeze Tank.

    For the life of me, I couldn't see a way to get that damn robot frozen. Initially, I pushed him down by shooting the city since I had the 0-damage upgrade. Unfortunately, I'd forgotten about the other frozen bot which unfroze and destroyed the city next to it. Fortunately, I had a redo left.

    I started looking at it from another direction. Since there was no way to move the charging Vek without damaging the Bot, how could I get the Freeze Tank closer? I was always one square off his movement, which is when I realized that the move above might actually work.

    I felt super clever! Even though I thought I was clever the turn before when the charging Vek was going to destroy a city and the Bot destroy a bunch of stuff. I ended up seeing a line where one of my Mech's Smoke jumped the Bot to stop it from attacking while the Freeze Tank froze the city. I honestly didn't think it would work, but was pleasantly surprised when it did.

    NOT ON MY WATCH YOU DAMNED VEK AND FREEZE BOT!

    MNC Dover on
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Knowing how to get those extra move interactions is the best.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    It gets really fun when you get the mechs where all they do is move around. The moments when you go into Beautiful Mind mode are great.

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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    After reading all this yesterday I played a few rounds last night. I'd forgotten I was mid-way through a run with the Flame Behemoths, who I'm not too familiar with yet and also very much not a team I find easy, on top of not having played for a little bit so being generally rusty.

    Glad I had a spare pilot.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    3rd and 4th islands complete! Got perfects on both, meaning I got perfects on everything except one stupid mistake. Even though it was only a lightning bolt lost, it still bothers me. And clearly easy mode has been too easy. I'll bump it up to normal when I'm done.

    Tomorrow will see me off to the final island!

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    I'm three islands in with the Rusting Hulks, and man, I feel like they're such a generous squad. The Rocket Mech can damage + push with one end and disrupt with the other end, the Pulse Mech can push reposition stuff but - when upgraded - can also shield stuff, and the Jet Mech - when upgraded - can do that two-space jump that feels really good. Also, blanketing half the map in smoke makes you feel all-powerful.

    I also have the Hazardous Mechs unlocked in my Switch game, and I think maybe I'll work on them next. I started one game as them and then quit in frustration after a little bit. They're gonna require a pretty different approach, I think.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    I'm three islands in with the Rusting Hulks, and man, I feel like they're such a generous squad. The Rocket Mech can damage + push with one end and disrupt with the other end, the Pulse Mech can push reposition stuff but - when upgraded - can also shield stuff, and the Jet Mech - when upgraded - can do that two-space jump that feels really good. Also, blanketing half the map in smoke makes you feel all-powerful.

    I also have the Hazardous Mechs unlocked in my Switch game, and I think maybe I'll work on them next. I started one game as them and then quit in frustration after a little bit. They're gonna require a pretty different approach, I think.

    Hazardous mechs are tricky. Very good once upgraded, but you really need to get kills to keep their health up.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Hazardous is one of my favorite teams. They've got a tempo to them that makes it feel like a symphony of destruction.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Delduwath wrote: »
    I'm three islands in with the Rusting Hulks, and man, I feel like they're such a generous squad. The Rocket Mech can damage + push with one end and disrupt with the other end, the Pulse Mech can push reposition stuff but - when upgraded - can also shield stuff, and the Jet Mech - when upgraded - can do that two-space jump that feels really good. Also, blanketing half the map in smoke makes you feel all-powerful.

    I also have the Hazardous Mechs unlocked in my Switch game, and I think maybe I'll work on them next. I started one game as them and then quit in frustration after a little bit. They're gonna require a pretty different approach, I think.

    Hazardous mechs are tricky. Very good once upgraded, but you really need to get kills to keep their health up.

    They pair very well with the dude we gives his ride Armored

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    3rd and 4th islands complete! Got perfects on both, meaning I got perfects on everything except one stupid mistake. Even though it was only a lightning bolt lost, it still bothers me. And clearly easy mode has been too easy. I'll bump it up to normal when I'm done.

    Tomorrow will see me off to the final island!

    Oh man is he gonna be in for a rude awakening in "Normal" mode... :D

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    3rd and 4th islands complete! Got perfects on both, meaning I got perfects on everything except one stupid mistake. Even though it was only a lightning bolt lost, it still bothers me. And clearly easy mode has been too easy. I'll bump it up to normal when I'm done.

    Tomorrow will see me off to the final island!

    Oh man is he gonna be in for a rude awakening in "Normal" mode... :D

    I actually started on Normal and was quite overwhelmed, thus the change to Easy.

    Speaking of Easy, game finished with another perfect score. I switched over to Normal, unlocked a bunch of new squads, but decided to keep the same 3 Mechs for my next run. Kept the Pilot that is Armored and put him in the punchy Mech.

    Let's hop into the Breach again!

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah this game is pretty unforgiving. What it considers Normal I think most people would consider Hard.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Hit a rough map layout on my Normal run. Started in the far right corner of the map and won't be able to hit all the 2-Star locations on the map before the boss arrives. Oh well, guess that's how it goes sometimes.

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Sometimes you'll get Time Pods, which gets you a Reactor Core if you manage to protect it (and sometimes something else, like a pilot or a weapon). If you get any other goodies like pilots and weapons, you can sell them at the end of an island for additional rep to make up the difference for not getting the full 9 stars. Not as good as getting a 9-star island AND a pod, of course, but at least you don't fall as far behind.

    In the game I finished today, it seemed like I only got Time Pods on maps that already had 3 other objectives to worry about.

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Yeah this game is pretty unforgiving. What it considers Normal I think most people would consider Hard.
    I think that's supposed to be a little joke a lot of roguelikes make.

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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    See also: Dungeon of the Endless Easy mode.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Or heck, FTL easy mode.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    Or heck, FTL easy mode.

    Ugh, I did not like FTL. Played 2 times and lost in the first few areas. No idea what was going on and it had to go.

    Finding out they made this game had me avoiding it for the longest time.

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    cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    cB557 wrote: »
    Or heck, FTL easy mode.

    Ugh, I did not like FTL. Played 2 times and lost in the first few areas. No idea what was going on and it had to go.

    Finding out they made this game had me avoiding it for the longest time.
    That's how FTL be, you just have to spend a few lives figuring stuff out. And, of course, you can always ask the forums for tips.

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