Shit, this is the most I've ever been interested in a MK game.
Animations look a lot smoother to me (granted I haven't closely looked at an NRS game since Injustice) and stance cancels are basically a 100% foolproof way to get me interested in a character.
Mk11 has me fiending hard so I popped in MKX for the first time in like 3 years. It made me realize two things, if I ever actually knew how to play that game I don't anymore, and holy shit I'm glad that armor is gone. Everyone just waking up with armor moves and throwing them out is real goofy.
And as much as I like running in fighting games the input for it in MKX was always terrible so I never even bothered learning real combos. It's funny, my Mk and injustice combos just look like what people were doing in mk11 anyway.
Also here's some more footage from ketchup and mustard
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited January 2019
I am 100% committed to G now and yes SFV is still SFV but S4 seems good so far. G is really really technical which I am enjoying after a season of playing Cammy, though I will say that I have gotten FRUSTRATEDDDDDD in some occasions as a result.
The early buzz is that Ibuki is top top tier, then Akuma/Rashid. And man those three characters are fucking DEGENERATE. Kinda unfortunate especially because those three were also top tier last season. But hey, whatever, it's not a big deal.
a mild SFV renaissance has been occurring in the Discord, come thru
so far I'm generally liking this season, but only after switching to Ultimate Upper God Tier Birdie
Birdie's cr.lp could be a character all by itself
Cr.lp, St.mp, cr.mp are like the only 3 buttons you need, and each one is INCREDIBLEEEEEE
PS: my opinion on kage has turned i thought there was more potential than there is he's kind of fucking shit maybe uppermid at bestttttttttttttt probably lower than that
Alex got buffed and it seems like most Alexs are choosing VT2 now, but he still has the same fundamental problem of having weaker conversions off of neutral and a terrible defensive game, so even though they buffed his oki, he's still the same kind of feast-or-famine character. Totally fine to play outside of pro level, but at pro level he's too volatile to be good. Who knows, maybe someone chains together the right set of insane reads but I doubt it, especially when there are better grapplers out there for the grappler specialists to play.
i really really like the way Alex Valle plays Kage but even he admits it's a struggle
i think rashid is obviously top tier.. they arguably didn't even nerf him wtf
i don't specifically see why Ibuki would automatically catapult to #1 since she's incrementally less cheap now, but maybe it has to do with just everyone else's haircut
i skipped a LOT of CPT viewing last year because it got so boring so quickly, but I'll invest at least to start. could be an interesting year
0
Options
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
Ibuki basically also didn't get nerfed and I think she was better than Rashid before.
0
Options
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
the pioneers of cargo-cult game design strike again!
0
Options
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited January 2019
I really like this in theory, even the player split between captain/ladder/fan vote and especially the draft. But who in the fuck would possibly think that a character ban is a good idea what the hell
Euphemon on
+1
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah...Umm bans in a fighting game make absolutely no sense. It isn't like a MOBA where skillsets are easily interchangeable from character to character.
Every character in a fighter requires a great deal of specific knowledge and its why most people only play 1 to 2 characters tops to begin with.
+1
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
That said from what I've gathered I guess its meant to be more of a casual "for fun" thing...so it isn't the end of the world. Still don't like it.
I don't get this mindset at all. Who even remotely thinks this is a good idea? Are there people out there who think football would be more fun if the quarterback had to play on the defensive line?
I don't get this mindset at all. Who even remotely thinks this is a good idea? Are there people out there who think football would be more fun if the quarterback had to play on the defensive line?
Hello yes I am one of those people.
Having a pre-match character ban ala Dota or League would be interesting sure, I’m not against the idea.
The problem arises in A. Fighting games are alot fuckin harder than League or Dota, and B. Fighting game rosters will never be big enough to justify character bans.
Now if both of those pre-requisits were fufilled by some mystery game that doesn’t exist, sure, I’d be all for it.
As it stands though it would be a pipe dream, inless you are willing to drastically lower player proficiency at your fighting game.
If you just want to hamstring good players for entertainment value, you could just have a boxing glove on a spring occasionally punch them in the genitals during their match or something. I want to see the best players playing at their best, without any weird speedbumps or surprises.
conceptually there is some flavor of this idea that I would be interested in, but this is definitely not it
it lacks all soul and creativity (surprise!). they looked (again) at mobas for inspiration on how to obtain esports relevance, they wrote "bans" up on a white board and were like "ok we have bans now" copy paste. no evidence that they even considered how this would impact a huge segment of the pro scene that they're trying to exploit for what I must assume is more clicks
why not just have a straight up random select tournament. that way no one team member will get singled out and completely taken out of the tournament.
or do something like 2 members get to play their choice, but a 3rd random team member must play a mystery character that the audience votes on before the matches begin, or something
anything other than "3 highly knowledgeable opponents look at your team and decide to ban the most impactful character without any limitation whatsoever"
All this is gonna do is reinforce the ideas that Fighting Games Need Bans To Be Fair and A Good Player Can Play Every Character At The Highest Level to the casual joes and janes.
If you just want to hamstring good players for entertainment value, you could just have a boxing glove on a spring occasionally punch them in the genitals during their match or something. I want to see the best players playing at their best, without any weird speedbumps or surprises.
I mean in an ideal world, you’re taking what happens from iteration to iteration (SF3 to SF4 for example) and condensing it to a per match basis. Seeing who can adapt to change and who is better, mechanically, overall.
The problem is mechanical mastery to the point of easily adopting 3 to 4 characters is impossible with the way fighting games are designed now. I would argue they are designed in a way where mechanical mastery is nigh impossible, since there are too many systems interacting with one another, not to mention player minds and habits, to ever get to a point where you could comfortallow picks and bans, in any fighting game.
Also fighting games don’t have rosters big enough where you go beyond a 9-1 or even an 8-2 matchup, where that’s the norm, even expected in games like Dota/League.
But to your point, I think that picks bans could be an accurate judge of who’s the best in fighting games, it’s just that fighting games are so layered that would be impossible without rendering what we like about fighting games moot.
If you just want to hamstring good players for entertainment value, you could just have a boxing glove on a spring occasionally punch them in the genitals during their match or something. I want to see the best players playing at their best, without any weird speedbumps or surprises.
From the perspective of speedrunning, you can often skip entire games with the right glitches. Zelda LttP lets you skip right to the Triforce room ending cutscene, so no other skill or strategy can ever develop unless you specifically create categories of competition in which you force players to do something else. In that case, artificial "speedbumps" make the competition far more interesting.
That said, if that's an issue in for your fighting game competition, the answer is to make a better game, not to ban the broken shit you refuse to patch.
All this is gonna do is reinforce the ideas that Fighting Games Need Bans To Be Fair and A Good Player Can Play Every Character At The Highest Level to the casual joes and janes.
I mean let’s come out and say it.
They want people like Sonicfox to be good.
Sonicfox is objectively a genius at fight games.
Sonicfox is not good at games where people get over his jank and playstyle.
He’s the ultimate casual master, which makes him easy to market because he consistently wins most things(that are busted in some way).
He’s be a king if he were a DoTA player, but as it stands he’s just okay in games like SF, Tekken, even Soul Calibur
In games where the character balance is really stratified and the game hasn't been updated in years, I do think the "ratio match" idea is a good one, but it just doesn't work when the game is still being actively updated.
The "ratio match" thing is that the characters of the game are grouped based on their tiering and each tier has a point value, you make a team and its point value can't exceed a particular sum. It generally means that if you want a top tier character on your team, you mathematically must have a low/bottom tier character on your team. This is actually really cool in KOF where the game already requires you to assemble a team of 3 characters, and there are mechanics based on that in the match. It simultaneously solves the problem of staleness in games where the top tiers are are overwhelming (e.g. "ugh another K'/Kasumi/Nameless team in KOF2k2UM") while also giving a chance for weaker characters to get some play in a competitive environment where their presence actually is strategically import to winning, as opposed to "let's bring out Dan for funsies".
I personally think that "no two players can use the same character on a team" already creates a lot of variety, and SFV is a fairly well-balanced/highly-volatile game. I also think that the bans are going to be really lame because very few players can play multiple characters at an equally very high level, and taking that away tends to be a lot more impactful than taking away a character that is a counterpick to your team unless your team is like 3 big bodies and you just don't want to have to deal with Menat. If Tokido's on the opposing team, why bother to ban anything BUT Akuma? If
WHAT IF ALL THIS IS A SECRET PLOY TO BRING INFILTRATION BACK INTO THE LIMELIGHT
Sonicfox is not good at games where people get over his jank and playstyle.
What the fuck?
Rewind the clock to MVCI and go watch Sonic Fox shit in FChamp's mouth week after week until Fchamp gave up and started playing SFV again lol
Sonic Fox is insanely good, and this is potentially the craziest thing I've read on this board, and boy is there competition
?
I am not saying he is anything but a genius. Hands down.
I am saying that Sonic Fox has played every other big game, Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur.
And while his innate talent lets him body people for awhile, eventually the crazypants people start settling in and there is a stratosphere he can’t reach, because he’s literally playing too many games and does not have the time to focus on one, because THATS WHAT IT TAKES in those games.
Capcom’s ideal world is he, as well as other pro-players, don’t have to go full character specialist nuts.
When in fact that is the reality born from these games.
0
Options
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
Sonicfox is not good at games where people get over his jank and playstyle.
What the fuck?
Rewind the clock to MVCI and go watch Sonic Fox shit in FChamp's mouth week after week until Fchamp gave up and started playing SFV again lol
Sonic Fox is insanely good, and this is potentially the craziest thing I've read on this board, and boy is there competition
?
I am not saying he is anything but a genius. Hands down.
I am saying that Sonic Fox has played every other big game, Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur.
And while his innate talent lets him body people for awhile, eventually the crazypants people start settling in and there is a stratosphere he can’t reach, because he’s literally playing too many games and does not have the time to focus on one, because THATS WHAT IT TAKES in those games.
Capcom’s ideal world is he, as well as other pro-players, don’t have to go full character specialist nuts.
When in fact that is the reality born from these games.
Hey, whatever, this is your opinion, but jesus christ this is crazy to read. Sonicfox is super, SUPER good at the footsie game on top of just...I can't even describe it, just the FEEL and flow of a game, it's not jank and playstyle (other than him being insanely good at footsies) that lets him win. Sonicfox never took SF/TK/SC seriously, when he actually does play games whether it's DBFZ or any NRS or Skullgirls or MVCI, guy is a fucking killer and doesn't lose to any game specialists even as he plays multiple games. It's not a fluke that he was absolutely dunking the NRS scene last year even while he was dunking the DBFZ scene.
To address your overall point though, I don't think Capcom is going in that direction. Like there's no fucking way that they'd be dumb enough to think that character bans are the future of fighting games, they have real ass Japanese pros working for them (at least on the design side), not total fucking idiots. This is probably just a dumb "OH LET'S HAVE FUN WITH THE TEAM LEAGUE" kinda thing, which is also why there's fan voting and all that. I think this is just a dumb experiment to have pick/bans like DotA for a team, which is also why there's character locks. I don't think it's indicative of their game design direction or anything like that.
Skullgirls
DoA
MK9
Injustice
MKX
MvCI
Injustice 2
DBZF
at the absolute highest level. While still being better than average at random games he's playing on the side while maintaining champion status in other games.
I don't think anyone needs to rig anything in his favor. I think dude has proven he can just win whatever he likes, and you can't really asterisk that by pointing at things he doesn't really like.
Knob on
+7
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
To me, Fox has always been like Justin if Justin had the execution.
Posts
I made it to top 16 and was promptly eliminated
This is the highest I will ever place in a competitive video game in my entire life
oh my god
Shit, this is the most I've ever been interested in a MK game.
Animations look a lot smoother to me (granted I haven't closely looked at an NRS game since Injustice) and stance cancels are basically a 100% foolproof way to get me interested in a character.
And as much as I like running in fighting games the input for it in MKX was always terrible so I never even bothered learning real combos. It's funny, my Mk and injustice combos just look like what people were doing in mk11 anyway.
Also here's some more footage from ketchup and mustard
Fuck yeah dude!
so far I'm generally liking this season, but only after switching to Ultimate Upper God Tier Birdie
Birdie's cr.lp could be a character all by itself
The early buzz is that Ibuki is top top tier, then Akuma/Rashid. And man those three characters are fucking DEGENERATE. Kinda unfortunate especially because those three were also top tier last season. But hey, whatever, it's not a big deal.
Cr.lp, St.mp, cr.mp are like the only 3 buttons you need, and each one is INCREDIBLEEEEEE
PS: my opinion on kage has turned i thought there was more potential than there is he's kind of fucking shit maybe uppermid at bestttttttttttttt probably lower than that
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE
(in my heart)
come on alex!!!11
Alex got buffed and it seems like most Alexs are choosing VT2 now, but he still has the same fundamental problem of having weaker conversions off of neutral and a terrible defensive game, so even though they buffed his oki, he's still the same kind of feast-or-famine character. Totally fine to play outside of pro level, but at pro level he's too volatile to be good. Who knows, maybe someone chains together the right set of insane reads but I doubt it, especially when there are better grapplers out there for the grappler specialists to play.
i think rashid is obviously top tier.. they arguably didn't even nerf him wtf
i don't specifically see why Ibuki would automatically catapult to #1 since she's incrementally less cheap now, but maybe it has to do with just everyone else's haircut
i skipped a LOT of CPT viewing last year because it got so boring so quickly, but I'll invest at least to start. could be an interesting year
Every character in a fighter requires a great deal of specific knowledge and its why most people only play 1 to 2 characters tops to begin with.
Hello yes I am one of those people.
Having a pre-match character ban ala Dota or League would be interesting sure, I’m not against the idea.
The problem arises in A. Fighting games are alot fuckin harder than League or Dota, and B. Fighting game rosters will never be big enough to justify character bans.
Now if both of those pre-requisits were fufilled by some mystery game that doesn’t exist, sure, I’d be all for it.
As it stands though it would be a pipe dream, inless you are willing to drastically lower player proficiency at your fighting game.
it lacks all soul and creativity (surprise!). they looked (again) at mobas for inspiration on how to obtain esports relevance, they wrote "bans" up on a white board and were like "ok we have bans now" copy paste. no evidence that they even considered how this would impact a huge segment of the pro scene that they're trying to exploit for what I must assume is more clicks
why not just have a straight up random select tournament. that way no one team member will get singled out and completely taken out of the tournament.
or do something like 2 members get to play their choice, but a 3rd random team member must play a mystery character that the audience votes on before the matches begin, or something
anything other than "3 highly knowledgeable opponents look at your team and decide to ban the most impactful character without any limitation whatsoever"
I mean in an ideal world, you’re taking what happens from iteration to iteration (SF3 to SF4 for example) and condensing it to a per match basis. Seeing who can adapt to change and who is better, mechanically, overall.
The problem is mechanical mastery to the point of easily adopting 3 to 4 characters is impossible with the way fighting games are designed now. I would argue they are designed in a way where mechanical mastery is nigh impossible, since there are too many systems interacting with one another, not to mention player minds and habits, to ever get to a point where you could comfortallow picks and bans, in any fighting game.
Also fighting games don’t have rosters big enough where you go beyond a 9-1 or even an 8-2 matchup, where that’s the norm, even expected in games like Dota/League.
But to your point, I think that picks bans could be an accurate judge of who’s the best in fighting games, it’s just that fighting games are so layered that would be impossible without rendering what we like about fighting games moot.
From the perspective of speedrunning, you can often skip entire games with the right glitches. Zelda LttP lets you skip right to the Triforce room ending cutscene, so no other skill or strategy can ever develop unless you specifically create categories of competition in which you force players to do something else. In that case, artificial "speedbumps" make the competition far more interesting.
That said, if that's an issue in for your fighting game competition, the answer is to make a better game, not to ban the broken shit you refuse to patch.
I mean let’s come out and say it.
They want people like Sonicfox to be good.
Sonicfox is objectively a genius at fight games.
Sonicfox is not good at games where people get over his jank and playstyle.
He’s the ultimate casual master, which makes him easy to market because he consistently wins most things(that are busted in some way).
He’s be a king if he were a DoTA player, but as it stands he’s just okay in games like SF, Tekken, even Soul Calibur
The "ratio match" thing is that the characters of the game are grouped based on their tiering and each tier has a point value, you make a team and its point value can't exceed a particular sum. It generally means that if you want a top tier character on your team, you mathematically must have a low/bottom tier character on your team. This is actually really cool in KOF where the game already requires you to assemble a team of 3 characters, and there are mechanics based on that in the match. It simultaneously solves the problem of staleness in games where the top tiers are are overwhelming (e.g. "ugh another K'/Kasumi/Nameless team in KOF2k2UM") while also giving a chance for weaker characters to get some play in a competitive environment where their presence actually is strategically import to winning, as opposed to "let's bring out Dan for funsies".
I personally think that "no two players can use the same character on a team" already creates a lot of variety, and SFV is a fairly well-balanced/highly-volatile game. I also think that the bans are going to be really lame because very few players can play multiple characters at an equally very high level, and taking that away tends to be a lot more impactful than taking away a character that is a counterpick to your team unless your team is like 3 big bodies and you just don't want to have to deal with Menat. If Tokido's on the opposing team, why bother to ban anything BUT Akuma? If
WHAT IF ALL THIS IS A SECRET PLOY TO BRING INFILTRATION BACK INTO THE LIMELIGHT
What the fuck?
Rewind the clock to MVCI and go watch Sonic Fox shit in FChamp's mouth week after week until Fchamp gave up and started playing SFV again lol
Sonic Fox is insanely good, and this is potentially the craziest thing I've read on this board, and boy is there competition
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
?
I am not saying he is anything but a genius. Hands down.
I am saying that Sonic Fox has played every other big game, Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur.
And while his innate talent lets him body people for awhile, eventually the crazypants people start settling in and there is a stratosphere he can’t reach, because he’s literally playing too many games and does not have the time to focus on one, because THATS WHAT IT TAKES in those games.
Capcom’s ideal world is he, as well as other pro-players, don’t have to go full character specialist nuts.
When in fact that is the reality born from these games.
Hey, whatever, this is your opinion, but jesus christ this is crazy to read. Sonicfox is super, SUPER good at the footsie game on top of just...I can't even describe it, just the FEEL and flow of a game, it's not jank and playstyle (other than him being insanely good at footsies) that lets him win. Sonicfox never took SF/TK/SC seriously, when he actually does play games whether it's DBFZ or any NRS or Skullgirls or MVCI, guy is a fucking killer and doesn't lose to any game specialists even as he plays multiple games. It's not a fluke that he was absolutely dunking the NRS scene last year even while he was dunking the DBFZ scene.
To address your overall point though, I don't think Capcom is going in that direction. Like there's no fucking way that they'd be dumb enough to think that character bans are the future of fighting games, they have real ass Japanese pros working for them (at least on the design side), not total fucking idiots. This is probably just a dumb "OH LET'S HAVE FUN WITH THE TEAM LEAGUE" kinda thing, which is also why there's fan voting and all that. I think this is just a dumb experiment to have pick/bans like DotA for a team, which is also why there's character locks. I don't think it's indicative of their game design direction or anything like that.
Skullgirls
DoA
MK9
Injustice
MKX
MvCI
Injustice 2
DBZF
at the absolute highest level. While still being better than average at random games he's playing on the side while maintaining champion status in other games.
I don't think anyone needs to rig anything in his favor. I think dude has proven he can just win whatever he likes, and you can't really asterisk that by pointing at things he doesn't really like.