El Skid: Place the Qucen'n-Rarron system at 2-3. 38thDoe: Place the Arinam-Meer system at 2-2. 38thDoe: Place empty system "Carceri" at 3-8. El Skid: Place the Quann system at 3-12. Ketar: Place Asteroid Field system at 3-2.
Well this is going to be a slightly awkward placement for me, but my only options were 3-9 and 3-3, so it's going to make a rough starting spot no matter what.
A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Bereg-Lirta IV system at 3-10. Lykouragh: Place the Arnor-Lor system at 3-7. Phyphor: Place the Mellon-Zohbat system at 3-5. Phyphor: Place the Lodor system at 3-4. Lykouragh: Place Gravity Field system at 3-9.
Alright, so we're waiting on El Skid to make a confirmation of his placement location, after which 38thDoe's last tile will be placed to complete the galaxy. After that, I'll re-randomize the player order for race and location selection.
In the meantime, there's still opportunity for @Ketar and @Lykouragh to provide names for their placed Asteroid Field and Gravity Rift systems, respectively.
Winnaran clerk Biamur Lar Neyan took the printout and continued to mindlessly enter in reconstructed star chart data. "Yes indeed, I agree that this 'Somewhere' is quite an unusual system name. But if that's where the surveyors found the old dense asteroid formation, then that's where it must be."
Round 0: Race and Location Draft
A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Saudor system at 3-3. Ketar: Place the Mehar Xull system at 3-11. El Skid: Place the New Albion-Starpoint system at 3-6. 38thDoe: Place the Lazar-Sakulag system at 3-1.
For race and starting location selection, the player order is re-shuffled based on the system placement order (Phyphor, Lykouragh, A Half Eaten Oreo, Ketar, El Skid, 38thDoe) Drafting Order: {6, 1, 5, 2, 3, 4}
Order of Play @38thDoe
Phyphor
El Skid
Lykouragh
A Half Eaten Oreo
Ketar
Ketar
A Half Eaten Oreo
Lykouragh
El Skid
Phyphor
38thDoe
On each player's turn, they will draft one of the available items, including one race and one location. If the Speaker Token is drafted, that player will automatically select the last remaining race or location. If the Speaker Token is not drafted, then it will automatically be given to the first player in the draft, 38thDoe.
Available Items
The Ghosts of Creuss
The L1z1x Mindnet
The Barony of Letnev
The Embers of Muaat
Sardakk N'orr
The Yssaril Tribes
Location A
Location B
Location C
Location D
Location E
Location F
The fact that players fairly frequently comment on the state of the board after it is built, rather than while it's being built, makes me think that I need to add a map adjustment phase to the setup, before races and locations are drafted. I also need to remember to list the types of tiles that are left in players' hands in each status update so that people can plan ahead (e.g. it should have been known that Ketar's last tile was a red-backed tile, and that it was red-bordered by process of elimination). If everyone wants to move tiles around, I'll allow it, but I'll also re-shuffle the race and location draft order for complete fairness.
EDIT: Actually, the last time this happened (Game III), I ended up re-ordering the placements based on my expectations, with the players' consents; the race and location draft continued in its originally-rolled order. So that's another potential option.
I don't mind either way. But I tend to agree with El Skid, that somewhat unbalances tiles make race vs start loc vs speaker more interesting.
There's interesting, and then there's a map where no amount of race advantage could possibly make up for the disparity in starting points. Which we have here.
Swapping one of the systems next to A for the blank next to E would help. Swapping a single planet near B for a better system would help too.
Right now we have starting points that should have 10-11 easy to take and hold resources worth of planets vs positions that will only have 3 or so without conflict. None of the races available are better than the others by enough to make up for that.
I don't mind either way. But I tend to agree with El Skid, that somewhat unbalances tiles make race vs start loc vs speaker more interesting.
There's interesting, and then there's a map where no amount of race advantage could possibly make up for the disparity in starting points. Which we have here.
Swapping one of the systems next to A for the blank next to E would help. Swapping a single planet near B for a better system would help too.
Right now we have starting points that should have 10-11 easy to take and hold resources worth of planets vs positions that will only have 3 or so without conflict. None of the races available are better than the others by enough to make up for that.
That's fair enough. I'm currently on a computer that can't access Dropbox so I can't see t final map. Didn't realize it was that unbalanced.
0
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
edited January 2019
Resources and Influence in starting wedge.
A B C D E F
10 3 7 7 3 6
2 7 6 5 2 7
I wonder if starting from the outer ring and working in might result in a more balanced universe since everyone would have a full hand of tiles?
The fact that players fairly frequently comment on the state of the board after it is built, rather than while it's being built, makes me think that I need to add a map adjustment phase to the setup, before races and locations are drafted. I also need to remember to list the types of tiles that are left in players' hands in each status update so that people can plan ahead (e.g. it should have been known that Ketar's last tile was a red-backed tile, and that it was red-bordered by process of elimination). If everyone wants to move tiles around, I'll allow it, but I'll also re-shuffle the race and location draft order for complete fairness.
EDIT: Actually, the last time this happened (Game III), I ended up re-ordering the placements based on my expectations, with the players' consents; the race and location draft continued in its originally-rolled order. So that's another potential option.
Maybe we even just need to make sure to talk about this stuff as we're placing- if I'd said "guys I have a red in hand" a round earlier it might have gone better.
I wonder if starting from the outer ring and working in might result in a more balanced universe since everyone would have a full hand of tiles?
This happened to me. I didn't count and failed to realize I wouldn't be able to put my resource rich tile in a more contested area.
0
El SkidThe frozen white northRegistered Userregular
I guess the question is- how unbalanced are the races we have here? In my limited experience with TI3 the races aren't particularly balanced... maybe the ones for this game are better balanced?
If the gap in race quality is less this game I'm much more comfortable fixing up the map to make it fairer... Honestly last game I ended up with a sweet planet setup but still lost horribly with the N'orr, who are considered to be a bad race. Whether or not that was because I am bad at the game I can't really judge >_<
The fact that players fairly frequently comment on the state of the board after it is built, rather than while it's being built, makes me think that I need to add a map adjustment phase to the setup, before races and locations are drafted. I also need to remember to list the types of tiles that are left in players' hands in each status update so that people can plan ahead (e.g. it should have been known that Ketar's last tile was a red-backed tile, and that it was red-bordered by process of elimination). If everyone wants to move tiles around, I'll allow it, but I'll also re-shuffle the race and location draft order for complete fairness.
EDIT: Actually, the last time this happened (Game III), I ended up re-ordering the placements based on my expectations, with the players' consents; the race and location draft continued in its originally-rolled order. So that's another potential option.
Maybe we even just need to make sure to talk about this stuff as we're placing- if I'd said "guys I have a red in hand" a round earlier it might have gone better.
Yeah, this is exactly what I'm saying - since folks aren't communicating much during placement, then as host, I should be able to fill in some of the game cues that are missing in the forum environment.
As the discussion stands right now, it sounds like consensus is trending towards doing some rearrangement. Should I just take care of those decisions as I did in Game III?
Alrighty, then. I've looked back at the outermost ring placement history and made changes.
38thDoe: Place the Lazar-Sakulag system at 3-8. (Start with a what-if scenario, that 38thDoe placed their other tile in 3-8 instead.) El Skid: Place the New Albion-Starpoint system at 3-10. (Position F looks weak, so let's kickstart it with one of the premium systems.) Ketar: Place Asteroid Field system "Somewhere" at 3-2. (No changes to this one, but...) A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Bereg-Lirta IV system at 3-3. (This should prompt the placement of another premium system next to B.) Lykouragh: Place the Arnor-Lor system at 3-7. Phyphor: Place the Lodor system at 3-4. Phyphor: Place the Mellon-Zohbat system at 3-6. (Position D isn't too bad, but it's closed in due to the Supernova system. This makes sure it's stable.) Lykouragh: Place Gravity Field system "Bermuda Sphere" at 3-9. (Same place, but no choice about it.) A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Saudor system at 3-5. (Positions C and F probably want this the most, and C looks like the better place for now.) Ketar: Place the Mehar Xull system at 3-11. El Skid: Place the Quann system at 3-1. (Long distances between wormholes are fun.) 38thDoe: Place empty system "Carceri" at 3-12.
Posts
Empty Space Named Carceri to 3-8
Back to
@El Skid
@Ketar
@A Half Eaten Oreo
El Skid: Place the Qucen'n-Rarron system at 2-3.
38thDoe: Place the Arinam-Meer system at 2-2.
38thDoe: Place empty system "Carceri" at 3-8.
El Skid: Place the Quann system at 3-12.
Ketar: Place Asteroid Field system at 3-2.
Current Map: Start of Round 0, Galaxy Creation Update 5
Order of Play
A Half Eaten Oreo
Lykouragh
Phyphor
Phyphor
Lykouragh
A Half Eaten Oreo
Ketar
El Skid
38thDoe
@Lykouragh
@Phyphor
Mellon (Cultural, 0R, 2I) - Zohbat (Hazardous, 3R, 1I) at 3-5
@Lykouragh
Lodor (Cultural, 3R, 1I) + Alpha Wormhole in 3-4
Gravity Rift at 3-9
@A Half Eaten Oreo
A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Bereg-Lirta IV system at 3-10.
Lykouragh: Place the Arnor-Lor system at 3-7.
Phyphor: Place the Mellon-Zohbat system at 3-5.
Phyphor: Place the Lodor system at 3-4.
Lykouragh: Place Gravity Field system at 3-9.
Current Map: Start of Round 0, Galaxy Creation Update 6
Order of Play
A Half Eaten Oreo
Ketar
El Skid
38thDoe
@Ketar
@El Skid
@38thDoe
Did you maybe mean 3-6? The only other open spot is 3-1, I believe.
In the meantime, there's still opportunity for @Ketar and @Lykouragh to provide names for their placed Asteroid Field and Gravity Rift systems, respectively.
Round 0: Race and Location Draft
A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Saudor system at 3-3.
Ketar: Place the Mehar Xull system at 3-11.
El Skid: Place the New Albion-Starpoint system at 3-6.
38thDoe: Place the Lazar-Sakulag system at 3-1.
Current Map: Start of Round 0, Race and Location Draft
For race and starting location selection, the player order is re-shuffled based on the system placement order (Phyphor, Lykouragh, A Half Eaten Oreo, Ketar, El Skid, 38thDoe)
Drafting Order: {6, 1, 5, 2, 3, 4}
Order of Play
@38thDoe
Phyphor
El Skid
Lykouragh
A Half Eaten Oreo
Ketar
Ketar
A Half Eaten Oreo
Lykouragh
El Skid
Phyphor
38thDoe
On each player's turn, they will draft one of the available items, including one race and one location. If the Speaker Token is drafted, that player will automatically select the last remaining race or location. If the Speaker Token is not drafted, then it will automatically be given to the first player in the draft, 38thDoe.
Available Items
The Ghosts of Creuss
The L1z1x Mindnet
The Barony of Letnev
The Embers of Muaat
Sardakk N'orr
The Yssaril Tribes
Location A
Location B
Location C
Location D
Location E
Location F
Speaker Token
EDIT: Actually, the last time this happened (Game III), I ended up re-ordering the placements based on my expectations, with the players' consents; the race and location draft continued in its originally-rolled order. So that's another potential option.
There's interesting, and then there's a map where no amount of race advantage could possibly make up for the disparity in starting points. Which we have here.
Swapping one of the systems next to A for the blank next to E would help. Swapping a single planet near B for a better system would help too.
Right now we have starting points that should have 10-11 easy to take and hold resources worth of planets vs positions that will only have 3 or so without conflict. None of the races available are better than the others by enough to make up for that.
That's fair enough. I'm currently on a computer that can't access Dropbox so I can't see t final map. Didn't realize it was that unbalanced.
I wonder if starting from the outer ring and working in might result in a more balanced universe since everyone would have a full hand of tiles?
Maybe we even just need to make sure to talk about this stuff as we're placing- if I'd said "guys I have a red in hand" a round earlier it might have gone better.
This happened to me. I didn't count and failed to realize I wouldn't be able to put my resource rich tile in a more contested area.
If the gap in race quality is less this game I'm much more comfortable fixing up the map to make it fairer... Honestly last game I ended up with a sweet planet setup but still lost horribly with the N'orr, who are considered to be a bad race. Whether or not that was because I am bad at the game I can't really judge >_<
Yeah, this is exactly what I'm saying - since folks aren't communicating much during placement, then as host, I should be able to fill in some of the game cues that are missing in the forum environment.
As the discussion stands right now, it sounds like consensus is trending towards doing some rearrangement. Should I just take care of those decisions as I did in Game III?
El Skid: Place the New Albion-Starpoint system at 3-10. (Position F looks weak, so let's kickstart it with one of the premium systems.)
Ketar: Place Asteroid Field system "Somewhere" at 3-2. (No changes to this one, but...)
A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Bereg-Lirta IV system at 3-3. (This should prompt the placement of another premium system next to B.)
Lykouragh: Place the Arnor-Lor system at 3-7.
Phyphor: Place the Lodor system at 3-4.
Phyphor: Place the Mellon-Zohbat system at 3-6. (Position D isn't too bad, but it's closed in due to the Supernova system. This makes sure it's stable.)
Lykouragh: Place Gravity Field system "Bermuda Sphere" at 3-9. (Same place, but no choice about it.)
A Half Eaten Oreo: Place the Saudor system at 3-5. (Positions C and F probably want this the most, and C looks like the better place for now.)
Ketar: Place the Mehar Xull system at 3-11.
El Skid: Place the Quann system at 3-1. (Long distances between wormholes are fun.)
38thDoe: Place empty system "Carceri" at 3-12.
Proposed Revised Galaxy Map
If there are no major qualms about it, we'll proceed with the revised map, with a re-rolled draft order.