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[Canadian Politics] Takin' out the trash to replace it with... whoops.

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Posts

  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    I always find myself enjoying when this discussion comes up, how our Charter of Rights with regards to freedom of expression differs from the USA's approach on this issue is often cited as being a significant road block to the spread of hate speech. Is it fast enough to keep up with the pace of all this though or should we be building up Canadian based alternatives to Google and Facebook that push back on the USA interpretation on the freedom of expression?

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  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    This wrote: »
    He also occasionally talks to people that you (and he!) may strongly disagree with. I personally don't ascribe to the idea that we must never interact with, listen to, or engage with people who have different views than we do, be it privately or publicly.

    This here is weasel wording. People aren't saying "don't interact with Charles Murray (or Sam Harris for that matter) because he says something I don't agree with."

    People are saying "don't interact with them because they're bigots." You're treating opposition to hate as a matter of difference of opinion - that's a bad faith argument that covers up the point of disagreement.

    The problem is, who gets to decide for everyone which people are bigots and should not be listened to or interacted with? Is it the case that as soon as someone gets labeled a bigot by someone else, everyone must agree? If we're not allowed to listen to people who someone has labeled as a (insert label here), how will we know if it's actually true?

    I can't take your word for it, because you say Sam Harris is a bigot. I don't know how much you've actually listened to him and come to that conclusion on your own versus not listening to him because someone else called him a bigot, or because he talked to someone else you think is a bigot and is therefore a bigot by the transitive property of bigotry... Either way, from my time listening to him, I think you're completely wrong!

    In life and on these forums, we interact with people who we disagree with on some things. If I disagree with someone about Issue X, sometimes we want to argue about it. And sometimes we're talking about something else, and so we set Issue X aside for now and talk instead about Topic Y or Z. This is how we get along with people and have conversations without constantly getting into arguments.

    This is what I wanted to do in this thread when I posted some very illuminating discussions about the topics at hand that I thought people could appreciate. I politely asked that we set aside Issue X (X= what do you think of Sam Harris), so as not to distract from the topics being discussed. The interview he does with Renée DiResta about her research into anti-vax movements and how that led to her being hired by the government to research the Russian propaganda campaign is fascinating! I think just about everybody here would really enjoy it. It should be possible to listen to and appreciate it whatever you think of Harris himself, or just not listen to it if you don't want to. I find it really discouraging that this can't happen, that an argument about the man and not the work must follow, and that the thread must get derailed, that I have to either accept a) being called a supporter of open racism, b) getting drawn into an argument I was never interested in having, or c) just not contributing at all.

  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Relevant article: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/sam-harris-charles-murray-race-iq-forbidden-knowledge-podcast-bell-curve
    Harris’s conversation with Murray was titled, tantalizingly, “Forbidden Knowledge,” and in it, Harris sought to rehabilitate the conversation over race and IQ as well as open a larger debate about what can and cannot be said in today’s America. Here is Harris framing the discussion:
    People don’t want to hear that a person's intelligence is in large measure due to his or her genes and there seems to be very little we can do environmentally to increase a person's intelligence even in childhood. It's not that the environment doesn't matter, but genes appear to be 50 to 80 percent of the story. People don't want to hear this. And they certainly don't want to hear that average IQ differs across races and ethnic groups.

    Now, for better or worse, these are all facts. In fact, there is almost nothing in psychological science for which there is more evidence than these claims. About IQ, about the validity of testing for it, about its importance in the real world, about its heritability, and about its differential expression in different populations.

    Again, this is what a dispassionate look at [what] decades of research suggest. Unfortunately, the controversy over The Bell Curve did not result from legitimate, good-faith criticisms of its major claims. Rather, it was the product of a politically correct moral panic that totally engulfed Murray's career and has yet to release him.

    A few moments later, Harris lays out his own motivations. He admits, with some shame, that he once declined to participate in a symposium alongside Murray. And if he did that, he says, who knows how many others have quietly shunned Murray over the years?
    The purpose of the podcast was to set the record straight. Because I find the dishonesty and hypocrisy and moral cowardice of Murray's critics shocking. And the fact that I was taken in by this defamation of him and effectively became part of a silent mob that was just watching what amounted to a modern witch-burning, that was intolerable to me.

    Harris returns repeatedly to the idea that the controversy over Murray’s race and IQ work is driven by “dishonesty and hypocrisy and moral cowardice” — not a genuine disagreement over the underlying science or its interpretation. As he puts it, “there is virtually no scientific controversy” around Murray’s argument.

    This is, to put it gently, a disservice Harris did to his audience. It is rare for a multi-decade academic debate to be a mere matter of bad faith, and it is certainly not the case here.

    I dunno, seems pretty racist.

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  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    Is this conversation about Canadian politics right now or about something else entirely?

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  • The Cow KingThe Cow King Walls of Jakiro Registered User regular
    I didnt listen to the podcast but my eyes rolled out of my head at the viability of the centre, at least here in canada thats who is running the country! We have neo liberals in power and they worry more about rumblings from the left while smooth talking to the right. Its a very deliberate strategy and they also co opt leftist things to pretend to have moved left when they havent at all, then by association after so long people think they are.

    The russian interference is a interesting one that I dont know much about. I do know that our governments have gotten pretty good about buying adspace now to promote their platforms so I doubt theirs a lot of incentive for politcal ads on the internet to be crackdowned on. How else would they keep trying and failing to convince me that the pipeline is a good idea.

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    edited January 19
    edit: mod note was on new page

    WiseManTobes on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    So a Radio-Canada (French CBC) investigation show discovered that dental reconstruction surgery after cancer treatments, which is necessary for children after they recover from cancer because of the damages from chimo and which can run up to $75,000, was not covered by the Quebec healthcare plan. As soon as the report aired, our new, right-wing government immediately... declared this was "an injustice" and that this would now be covered.

    Honestly, I was scared of this government before, but they're really winning me over!

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ]
    Richy wrote: »
    So a Radio-Canada (French CBC) investigation show discovered that dental reconstruction surgery after cancer treatments, which is necessary for children after they recover from cancer because of the damages from chimo and which can run up to $75,000, was not covered by the Quebec healthcare plan. As soon as the report aired, our new, right-wing government immediately... declared this was "an injustice" and that this would now be covered.

    Honestly, I was scared of this government before, but they're really winning me over!

    I don't know wtf is going on in Quebec Provincial politics anymore.

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  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Part of me feels like they’re giving the cogs a good greasing up before activating the horrible machine.

    Give people a reason to get invested before they turn the screws, get that good good “but they’re really not all that bad” defense planted in brains.

    It’d be super cool to be wrong about that, though.

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    mrondeau
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Part of me feels like they’re giving the cogs a good greasing up before activating the horrible machine.

    Give people a reason to get invested before they turn the screws, get that good good “but they’re really not all that bad” defense planted in brains.

    It’d be super cool to be wrong about that, though.

    Well, that's really not the startegy we've seen conservatives use lately. Trump and Ford didn't greace anything, they turned up the horrible to 11 the minute they got the chance.

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  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Part of me feels like they’re giving the cogs a good greasing up before activating the horrible machine.

    Give people a reason to get invested before they turn the screws, get that good good “but they’re really not all that bad” defense planted in brains.

    It’d be super cool to be wrong about that, though.

    Well, that's really not the startegy we've seen conservatives use lately. Trump and Ford didn't greace anything, they turned up the horrible to 11 the minute they got the chance.

    That’s my point, really. Your guys saw the pushback Ford et al was getting, and (according to my theory) decided to try a different tack.

    Or they’re somehow not terrible? I’d accept that, if true.

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  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I suspect they are keeping their terrible for all the xenophobic shit they promised and are currently preparing to implement.

    Gnome-InterruptusShadowen
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    I suspect they are keeping their terrible for all the xenophobic shit they promised and are currently preparing to implement.

    Their "terrible xenophobic shit" is to cut immigration from 50,000 to 40,000 a year in order to improve programs to integrate new immigrants in our society (which badly need improving, as comically illustrated by the fact even the refugee family our former premiere sponsored and financed ditched the life he offered them and moved to Montreal).

    We're not exactly at "built the wall or shutdown the entire government" levels here.

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  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    There's also making it significantly harder to get PR than in the ROC, not actually planning to do anything that would actually help with integration, and being really hostile to the very concept of immigration.

  • breton-brawlerbreton-brawler Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    mrondeau wrote: »
    I suspect they are keeping their terrible for all the xenophobic shit they promised and are currently preparing to implement.

    Their "terrible xenophobic shit" is to cut immigration from 50,000 to 40,000 a year in order to improve programs to integrate new immigrants in our society (which badly need improving, as comically illustrated by the fact even the refugee family our former premiere sponsored and financed ditched the life he offered them and moved to Montreal).

    We're not exactly at "built the wall or shutdown the entire government" levels here.

    It feels like a modern revival of a "sensible" small c conservative government. Some of their social policies may be troubling, but they seem to be leaning toward the moderate instead of inflating the issue to the extremes.
    Its very interesting to see it play out.

    Caulk Bite 6RichyCanadianWolverineShadowen
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    That's how I used to view conservatives under Joe Clark and Preston Manning, been a long time since that. I just don't trust conservatives anymore.

    CanadianWolverine on
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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    The trick is not to scream "WHAT ARE THEY REALLY PLANNING", it's to watch, and wait, and let them do good things, and prepare to pounce and tear them apart like a lion the instant they do anything hinky.

    ...metaphorically speaking.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    It's kind of depressing that "not actively, cartoonishly malicious straight out of the gate" or "not pandering to actual literal Nazis" is the political bar to clear these days to the point where it's surprising.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    It snowed all day yesterday, like real powdery snow mixed with ice pellets. Then it poured rain in the night. Then everything froze. Now everything outside today is just a giant ice cube. I'm a pretty heavy guy, and the bootprints I left in the snow last night are about 2-3 inches deep as I crunched my way to put out the garbage. Today I'm virtually walking atop the... ice/snow sheet.

    Glad I don't have to go out at all. It's actually pretty neat otherwise.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    It's kind of depressing that "not actively, cartoonishly malicious straight out of the gate" or "not pandering to actual literal Nazis" is the political bar to clear these days to the point where it's surprising.

    Just be happy that they seem to be clearing that bar with a fair amount of space. Most of our government is either slithering over or limboeing under it.

    RichyCaulk Bite 6Gnome-InterruptusZibblsnrtFencingsaxLordSolarMacharius
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    It amuses me how people here in the GTA are making jokes about it being so cold outside and how its the worst ever, etc etc... While my wife, who originally hails from Winnipeg, is all, "Back home we call this a Monday. Why do you think we never go back and visit my family in the winter?"

    homogenizedmysticjuicer
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Indeed. I walked to a cat shelter in -41 weather on Saturday. 40 minutes. I don't even get paid; I'm a volunteer.

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Ya it's almost in the minuses out here in B.C. , it's rough!

    *cackles and runs away in a t shirt*

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  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    Ya it's almost in the minuses out here in B.C. , it's rough!

    *cackles and runs away in a t shirt*

    We went out to see the Super Blood Wolf Moon last night. We could see our breath and I tucked my bare hands into the sleeves of my medium-weight jacket.

    A couple friends in the Cold Zone also went out to see the moon. They cracked open a beer and the foam flash-froze.

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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Ya it's almost in the minuses out here in B.C. , it's rough!

    *cackles and runs away in a t shirt*

    My extremely BC problem is that I keep mis-guessing whether it's warm enough to take my motorcycle out or not. Last time I did it was just cold enough to feel unsafe and extremely unpleasant, but today I totally could've and didn't out of caution.

  • The Cow KingThe Cow King Walls of Jakiro Registered User regular
    Oh Ford ended free tuition, and is working to privatize healthcare

    Things that will take years if ever, to return

    Just pure unchallenged ideology the cons always get the benefit of the doubt to implement its disgusting

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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Disco11 wrote: »

    I believe it's just a senior building, not an elderly care home and she didn't hear the messaging clearly as the alarm was for another building. She evacuated hers and couldn't get back in.
    Tragic but not a failure on anyone's part as fast as I can see.

    Aridhol on
    ArcticLancer
  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    The story is finally out about the two officials at the BC legislature who were escorted off site by police last November. Alleged overspending and theft of government property.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/darryl-plecas-bc-legislature-1.4986402

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  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »

    I believe it's just a senior building, not an elderly care home and she didn't hear the messaging clearly as the alarm was for another building. She evacuated hers and couldn't get back in.
    Tragic but not a failure on anyone's part as fast as I can see.

    Arguably it could be a structural failure

    I mean, the majority of apartments/condo buildings have a front hall with an accessible front door and a locked interior one with buzzers. If the building had one of those, she'd presumably at least be able to wait things out in the heat

    I'm surprised that isn't code

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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »

    I believe it's just a senior building, not an elderly care home and she didn't hear the messaging clearly as the alarm was for another building. She evacuated hers and couldn't get back in.
    Tragic but not a failure on anyone's part as fast as I can see.

    Arguably it could be a structural failure

    I mean, the majority of apartments/condo buildings have a front hall with an accessible front door and a locked interior one with buzzers. If the building had one of those, she'd presumably at least be able to wait things out in the heat

    I'm surprised that isn't code

    Our condo has this setup, though after 11:00 or something at night the outer door locks as well since there was a rash of vandalism/homeless people camping out there during the night. I have no idea if that is legal or not but I think it is probably not uncommon.

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  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    It's kind of depressing that "not actively, cartoonishly malicious straight out of the gate" or "not pandering to actual literal Nazis" is the political bar to clear these days to the point where it's surprising.

    Well, it didn’t take too long for them to start slipping. This sounds remarkably shady.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/as-quebec-cuts-immigration-legault-calls-for-more-newcomers-from-europe-1.4987843
    Quebec Premier François Legault says he wants more French and other European immigrants to come to Quebec, despite his government's plans to cut over all immigration levels by 20 per cent.

    Legault's comments were made while he was in Paris on Monday, after meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron.

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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »

    I believe it's just a senior building, not an elderly care home and she didn't hear the messaging clearly as the alarm was for another building. She evacuated hers and couldn't get back in.
    Tragic but not a failure on anyone's part as fast as I can see.

    Arguably it could be a structural failure

    I mean, the majority of apartments/condo buildings have a front hall with an accessible front door and a locked interior one with buzzers. If the building had one of those, she'd presumably at least be able to wait things out in the heat

    I'm surprised that isn't code

    I'm surprised she wasn't able to reach someone in another apartment as presumably there was a buzzer.
    Maybe the cold was just too bad/quick.

    Gah, horrible situation.



    As to the front hall thing there used to be more of that from my recollection but it's almost non-existent now as people would sleep in it overnight all the time and 0% of residents/property owners/strata's want that.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Whoops. Looks like Doug Ford's daughter has been helping to promote illegal CBD products.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2019/01/22/kyla-ford-instagram-black-market-cannabis-oils_a_23649983/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

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  • djmitchelladjmitchella Registered User regular
    In other cannabis-related news, someone at the CBC is having fun writing headlines

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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    It's kind of depressing that "not actively, cartoonishly malicious straight out of the gate" or "not pandering to actual literal Nazis" is the political bar to clear these days to the point where it's surprising.

    Well, it didn’t take too long for them to start slipping. This sounds remarkably shady.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/as-quebec-cuts-immigration-legault-calls-for-more-newcomers-from-europe-1.4987843
    Quebec Premier François Legault says he wants more French and other European immigrants to come to Quebec, despite his government's plans to cut over all immigration levels by 20 per cent.

    Legault's comments were made while he was in Paris on Monday, after meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron.

    They can just say WHITE immigrants.....

    We all know what the mean.

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  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    It's kind of depressing that "not actively, cartoonishly malicious straight out of the gate" or "not pandering to actual literal Nazis" is the political bar to clear these days to the point where it's surprising.

    Well, it didn’t take too long for them to start slipping. This sounds remarkably shady.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/as-quebec-cuts-immigration-legault-calls-for-more-newcomers-from-europe-1.4987843
    Quebec Premier François Legault says he wants more French and other European immigrants to come to Quebec, despite his government's plans to cut over all immigration levels by 20 per cent.

    Legault's comments were made while he was in Paris on Monday, after meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron.

    They can just say WHITE immigrants.....

    We all know what the mean.

    White french speaking immigrants who are lapsed Catholic and are well educated. Basically, they want some very specific people from France, Belgium or Québec. And the one from France should not be too European.

    Disco11ShadowenCaulk Bite 6
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    In other cannabis-related news, someone at the CBC is having fun writing headlines

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    Starting to wonder how long it will take most of the provinces to do an about face and allow privatization at this point.

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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    In other cannabis-related news, someone at the CBC is having fun writing headlines

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    Starting to wonder how long it will take most of the provinces to do an about face and allow privatization at this point.

    It's private here.... And they stopped issuing licenses because of the stock shortages.

    This is what happens when you base your supply on a select few liberal friendly suppliers.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
    AridholCaulk Bite 6
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    It's definitely more of a supplier approval issue than a public/private issue. Personally I like the government store model for alcohol and cannabis here. They just need to approve some of the local producers whose licenses are pending.

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