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US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

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Posts

  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    I love how he tried to sell this as if things were his idea and his doing. I'm sure his base will eat it up, but hopefully those who are already breaking will see the forest for the trees.

    Plus can you announce a national emergency ahead of time?

    Elvenshae
  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    "You've spent 35 days not giving me what I want despite mounting pressure. But if you don't give me what I want in 15 days then... then... then I'll show you!"

    It's pathetic. He's got nothing, can't get what he wants, has no idea how to actually negotiate, and just keeps spouting the same manifesto over and over again thinking, I guess, people will somehow be convinced.

    I really miss politicians saying things that were technically not lies. Merely misrepresenting the truth or cherry-picking numbers and statements. Rather than simply making shit up off the cuff and insisting over and over that it's true.

    And him going up and saying as much on live TV just means if he shuts it down again pelosi will just pass more clean cr and wait for the cave to happen yet again. Trump has played his cards and shown he has nothing.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    SeñorAmor wrote: »
    Trump is saying that "so many" of the affected workers actually encouraged him to continue the shutdown.

    Like really?

    This is actually a high volume lie for Trump. Heard it pointed out recently by somebody who fact checks him constantly. Once you know to look for it, it becomes very obvious. Any time he talks about a private conversation with another person, or specifically people “calling him,” it’s a lie. From Boy Scout leaders to former Presidents, when in doubt he just makes up people calling him and telling him he’s right. Whoever is convenient at the time.

    Really worried that this three week reset will somehow let them gain the upper hand on the now-threatened new shutdown. That the new shutdown will have started under a Democratic House in particular worries me. The American public is profoundly stupid.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    .
    Brody wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What's the deets? Is this permanent or for three weeks? Did he concede anything? Is this for real or is it more bullshit with wall funding having to be included?

    Senate still has to vote, but Trump agreed to sign a three week clean CR.

    Do we A: know how quickly a vote can be taken/papers signed/etc etc and B: how quickly things will start back up once passed?

    I do not, and I'm not sure how to find out.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Let us all remember what Lindsey Graham said at the start of the year, as recorded by pundit Dave Weigel:


    "He’s not going to sign a bill that doesn’t have money for the wall... if he gives in now, that’s the end of 2019 in terms of him being an effective president. That’s probably the end of his presidency."

    For once, I hope Graham's right.

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    Man, I thought about a prop bet at 1230 that was what ends first, the SB or the shutdown at like -165 and almost pulled the trigger

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Pelosi should tell Trump no to a SOTU because of his stupid fucking threat of another shutdown.

    "We see no need for him to address Congress in-person, as he has already done so during his Rose Garden speech of 25 January. He may, at his option, submit a formal written report. In crayon."

    He's technically required to submit a report on the state of the union to congress. So if she were going to permanently dis-invite him she'd do better to play up the fact that he is still expected to fulfill his duties as President by submitting a written report.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Bucketman wrote: »
    I love how he tried to sell this as if things were his idea and his doing. I'm sure his base will eat it up, but hopefully those who are already breaking will see the forest for the trees.

    Plus can you announce a national emergency ahead of time?

    He [Talk about human trafficking]'d us today so that it would be well established that there is an emergency when he tries to declare one.

    Nobody is buying it, though.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Schumer is talking in the Senate now. Not sure what his point is yet.

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Any word on how soon Congress can actually vote on a thing?

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    The only reason he is doing this is so he gets his little SOTU. Then he will shut it down again. He will keep feeding us 3 week breadcrumbs every time he wants something.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    SeñorAmor wrote: »
    Trump is saying that "so many" of the affected workers actually encouraged him to continue the shutdown.

    Like really?

    This is actually a high volume lie for Trump. Heard it pointed out recently by somebody who fact checks him constantly. Once you know to look for it, it becomes very obvious. Any time he talks about a private conversation with another person, or specifically people “calling him,” it’s a lie. From Boy Scout leaders to former Presidents, when in doubt he just makes up people calling him and telling him he’s right. Whoever is convenient at the time.

    Really worried that this three week reset will somehow let them gain the upper hand on the now-threatened new shutdown. That the new shutdown will have started under a Democratic House in particular worries me. The American public is profoundly stupid.

    Well when trump already said on live TV I will shut the govt down all the press needs to do is just keep replaying that. He owned the first one he will own the next one because he can't help himself.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Any word on how soon Congress can actually vote on a thing?

    I think they are planning a vote on today, but I can't tell, and Schumer won't shut up to potentially let them vote, so who the fuck knows.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    .
    Brody wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What's the deets? Is this permanent or for three weeks? Did he concede anything? Is this for real or is it more bullshit with wall funding having to be included?

    Senate still has to vote, but Trump agreed to sign a three week clean CR.

    Do we A: know how quickly a vote can be taken/papers signed/etc etc and B: how quickly things will start back up once passed?


    How pathetic. On Dec. 19, the Senate unanimously passed essentially the same legislation that we will vote on today. We are back to exactly where we started. Thank you, Mr. President, for shutting down the government and holding 800,000 federal employees hostage. All for nothing!

    Bernie Sanders is a Senator


    This just went out.

    Mazzyx on
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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    a
    Any word on how soon Congress can actually vote on a thing?

    fox news stated they will vote today, then send it for a verbal vote tonight to representitives.

    what was the 'deal' though? I would think dems would have given details by now, is it just the dem version for the 3 week reopen that just failed?

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    https://www.senate.gov/floor/index.htm there is a link there if you want to listen to old people make points no one cares about instead of holding a damn vote.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    edited January 25
    I mean think about the cruelty of what just happened. Workers are out of pay for a month, and they're about to see some relatively small financial relief, but now they know that Trump intends for the government to shut down in another 3 weeks anyway. This doesn't actually relieve any of the stress. In some ways it makes things worse because it shows how little regard he has for them, that there's this Yo-Yo effect going on with their financial stability. That is just so incredibly fucked.

    Edit - Addendum - they're also over 30 days behind on work, so in addition to the normal pace of work, they're having to play catch-up.

    Henroid on
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  • H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    It's not a "deal". It's Trump and the GOP realizing that the shutdown is terrible for them and they're aren't getting the wall during it. They're giving up and just going with the clean CR that was the original plan before this whole shutdown mess.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Pelosi should tell Trump no to a SOTU because of his stupid fucking threat of another shutdown.

    "We see no need for him to address Congress in-person, as he has already done so during his Rose Garden speech of 25 January. He may, at his option, submit a formal written report. In crayon."

    He's technically required to submit a report on the state of the union to congress. So if she were going to permanently dis-invite him she'd do better to play up the fact that he is still expected to fulfill his duties as President by submitting a written report.

    It doesnt have to be an annual report. The wording is "from time to time".

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

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    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    SyphonBlue on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    a
    Any word on how soon Congress can actually vote on a thing?

    fox news stated they will vote today, then send it for a verbal vote tonight to representitives.

    what was the 'deal' though? I would think dems would have given details by now, is it just the dem version for the 3 week reopen that just failed?

    The deal is that a conference committee will drink coffee and eat doughnuts while pretending to discuss the wall for 3 weeks. Death by committee.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Just ro be clear, legislation has a required amount of time to be debated on, so they are probably talking because they have to.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    .
    Brody wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    What's the deets? Is this permanent or for three weeks? Did he concede anything? Is this for real or is it more bullshit with wall funding having to be included?

    Senate still has to vote, but Trump agreed to sign a three week clean CR.

    Do we A: know how quickly a vote can be taken/papers signed/etc etc and B: how quickly things will start back up once passed?

    Re: B, I seem to recall people getting back to work the moment the previous shutdowns ended (or at the moment of the "effective (insert time here)" if the resolutions used such language). If something passed this afternoon it's possible that people would be getting back to work tonight if not tomorrow.

    Of course, that's assuming the nitwit doesn't about-face again and veto anything..

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    I'll be surprised if he actually signs the CR now.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Just ro be clear, legislation has a required amount of time to be debated on, so they are probably talking because they have to.

    Thanks, I forgot about that. I feel ever so slightly less ragey about it then.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    I mean Breitbart is correct, but literally that was the only way out.

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  • H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    I'll be surprised if he actually signs the CR now.

    He has to. He made a big public speech about opening the government back up. If he backtracks on this it's even more clear who is responsible for people not getting paid. It would literally be worse than if he just didn't do anything today and let the shutdown continue as it had.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    H0b0man wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    I'll be surprised if he actually signs the CR now.

    He has to. He made a big public speech about opening the government back up. If he backtracks on this it's even more clear who is responsible for people not getting paid. It would literally be worse than if he just didn't do anything today and let the shutdown continue as it had.
    Also it would be prudent for it to pass with a veto proof majority.

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    I'll be surprised if he actually signs the CR now.

    If he does (reverse himself and not sign it), it could be the last straw for McConnell.


    Ah, who am I kidding?

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    H0b0man wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    I'll be surprised if he actually signs the CR now.

    He has to. He made a big public speech about opening the government back up. If he backtracks on this it's even more clear who is responsible for people not getting paid. It would literally be worse than if he just didn't do anything today and let the shutdown continue as it had.

    I'd be no less surprised if he actually signs the CR. In anything other than the darkest timeline, what you just said would show that it would be nearly impossible for the POTUS to not sign it.

    However, in our timeline, it is all the more reason to expect him to go back on his word.

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  • NotYouNotYou Registered User regular
    If only there were some way for congress to pass a bill that lasted for longer than 3 weeks. /s

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  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    H0b0man wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Right-wing media is not taking this well
    Red State wrote:
    This is not a good look if Trump is serious about getting the money for the wall. Already last evening he was showing flopsweat by floating a “down payment” idea. This is called “negotiating with yourself,” and it is what desperate people do.

    I think it's safe to say Trump will be taking the government hostage again in 3 weeks

    I'll be surprised if he actually signs the CR now.

    He has to. He made a big public speech about opening the government back up. If he backtracks on this it's even more clear who is responsible for people not getting paid. It would literally be worse than if he just didn't do anything today and let the shutdown continue as it had.
    Also it would be prudent for it to pass with a veto proof majority.

    They have to vote again to override the veto, and there is no guarantee the right will do that.

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  • VanguardVanguard Je suis le savant au fauteuil sombre. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Even if we’re at this same situation in 3 weeks, it can’t be overstated how right the Democrats played this: no capitulation, no compromise.

    It needs to be shouted from the mountaintops that if he wants the wall he’s not going to get it through shutdowns.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    So has anyone actually started a clean CR through the process for today? Also what are the bets the pubs try to taint whatever comes out of the senate?

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    I'm curious about whether or not anyone in Congress was including in reaching this "deal" that Trump claims to have reached.

    I kind of want Pelosi or Schumer to say that they didn't actually negotiate any deal with Trump, that he just blinked.

    Because it kind of seems like there was no "deal", just Trump and his people trying to appear to have some leverage when they clearly don't, by claiming a deal was made, when it was simply them trying to take what had already passed the House (and depending on whether what gets passed looks more like the Dec bill or the Jan one, the Senate) and passing it off as a deal.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Henroid wrote: »
    Pelosi should tell Trump no to a SOTU because of his stupid fucking threat of another shutdown.

    Nope nope nope.

    The deal was no SOTU until the government opens. If the government opens, then he should get to do his SOTU, because that is how deal making works among grown ups with principles.

    It's only 3 weeks, but this is a huge win. Trump shut down the government, he got absolutely nothing he wanted, the dems had impeccable message control, and Trump reopened the government.

    He got fucking nothing from this but shitty polls and horrible narrative.

    The dems held fast, and they - particularly Pelosi - deserve an ungodly amount of accolades for this.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    So has anyone actually started a clean CR through the process for today? Also what are the bets the pubs try to taint whatever comes out of the senate?

    Sounds like they are in the required 30 minute debate phase for a clean CR right now.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    I absolutely do not understand why democratic senators do not bring up, over and over, that they can overturn a veto with enough votes.

    Bernie Sanders is currently railing on Trump about what has gone on, and how he's threatening to shut down the government closed again.

    But Trump can't do that! He can veto the bill and then the GOP could vote overwhelmingly to overturn that veto. That absolutely has to be part of the conversation and be loud. They're not powerless.

    Trump's popularity is crashing. He can't do anything to them for it.

    HiroconMidniteAbsoluteZeroCentipede DamascusMr RayMan in the Mists
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    The rats are looking for gangropes:


    A former White House official texts me, unsolicited: “Trump looks pathetic...he just ceded his presidency to Nancy Pelosi.”

    Jonathan Swan is a reporter for Axios.

    This is what's going to ultimately destroy the alt-right - this need to eat their own.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Pelosi should tell Trump no to a SOTU because of his stupid fucking threat of another shutdown.

    Nope nope nope.

    The deal was no SOTU until the government opens. If the government opens, then he should get to do his SOTU, because that is how deal making works among grown ups with principles.

    It's only 3 weeks, but this is a huge win. Trump shut down the government, he got absolutely nothing he wanted, the dems had impeccable message control, and Trump reopened the government.

    He got fucking nothing from this but shitty polls and horrible narrative.

    The dems held fast, and they - particularly Pelosi - deserve an ungodly amount of accolades for this.
    I'm a bit torn I suppose. Like calm rational me says this is all good as you've laid it out, but I'm pretty vengeful in my thinking and Trump already threatening another shutdown is infuriating. I guess it's better to cross that bridge when we get there. I don't like that it's in sight already.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    Orca
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