I don't think Trump's comment was to indicate another shutdown might be coming. I think he is saying that the government shutdown failed to do it's job (of forcing democrats to agree to the wall) because democrats don't care about people being hurt, so the republicans did the right thing and opened the government again (ignoring the fact that they caused everything in the first place). Coupled with the threat that if nothing progresses in the next few weeks, he will move on to the next ploy, which is declaring an emergency and building the wall without congressional approval for funds.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the complete abdication of duty by senate republicans. They were 100% in support of a clean CR always, as indicated by the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR before Trumps Tantrum, and the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR after Trumps Tantrum. Which means they completely ignored all of their duties and actual beliefs to follow whatever Trump wanted. While hundreds of thousands of people suffered.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
I don't think Trump's comment was to indicate another shutdown might be coming. I think he is saying that the government shutdown failed to do it's job (of forcing democrats to agree to the wall) because democrats don't care about people being hurt, so the republicans did the right thing and opened the government again (ignoring the fact that they caused everything in the first place). Coupled with the threat that if nothing progresses in the next few weeks, he will move on to the next ploy, which is declaring an emergency and building the wall without congressional approval for funds.
No, he's saying "I'm still gonna win. I didn't lose." And he's saying he's gonna win by forcing the Democrats to agree to fund the Wall or he's gonna shut the government down again.
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the complete abdication of duty by senate republicans. They were 100% in support of a clean CR always, as indicated by the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR before Trumps Tantrum, and the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR after Trumps Tantrum. Which means they completely ignored all of their duties and actual beliefs to follow whatever Trump wanted. While hundreds of thousands of people suffered.
There is no more accurate descriptor for every single one of them than "cowards"
I don't think Trump's comment was to indicate another shutdown might be coming. I think he is saying that the government shutdown failed to do it's job (of forcing democrats to agree to the wall) because democrats don't care about people being hurt, so the republicans did the right thing and opened the government again (ignoring the fact that they caused everything in the first place). Coupled with the threat that if nothing progresses in the next few weeks, he will move on to the next ploy, which is declaring an emergency and building the wall without congressional approval for funds.
No, he's saying "I'm still gonna win. I didn't lose." And he's saying he's gonna win by forcing the Democrats to agree to fund the Wall or he's gonna shut the government down again.
I disagree. I mean, we'll find out either way in three weeks since I doubt any funding for the wall passes the house, but the way I parse that text is that he is moving on to the next thing. If he wanted another shutdown it should read more like "then it's time for round two." Coupled with the amount of times he's said humanitarian crisis on TV, I really do think he is 100% on board with declaring an emergency. He is just waiting for the right moment.
"The world is a mess, and I just need to rule it" - Dr Horrible
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
“Moving forward for the next three weeks, have the Democrats boxed themselves into a corner with zero for wall funding that makes them look weak on border security?” asked Marc Short, who was Mr. Trump’s White House legislative director earlier in his presidency.
From NYT
Arguing that Democrats are the real losers here is certainly a hot take
“Moving forward for the next three weeks, have the Democrats boxed themselves into a corner with zero for wall funding that makes them look weak on border security?” asked Marc Short, who was Mr. Trump’s White House legislative director earlier in his presidency.
From NYT
Arguing that Democrats are the real losers here is certainly a hot take
“Moving forward for the next three weeks, have the Democrats boxed themselves into a corner with zero for wall funding that makes them look weak on border security?” asked Marc Short, who was Mr. Trump’s White House legislative director earlier in his presidency.
From NYT
Arguing that Democrats are the real losers here is certainly a hot take
I mean they're quoting someone, not making the argument themselves. But it certainly is the hottest of takes regardless.
“Moving forward for the next three weeks, have the Democrats boxed themselves into a corner with zero for wall funding that makes them look weak on border security?” asked Marc Short, who was Mr. Trump’s White House legislative director earlier in his presidency.
From NYT
Arguing that Democrats are the real losers here is certainly a hot take
Yes, they've really walled themselves off from projecting strength. They have their backs to the wall, now. Hell, I bet they're getting plastered as we speak.
So, Conference Committee on the DHS appropriations, but any chance they can just full fiscal year CR the other 5 Appropriations Bills between now and the 15th?
Honestly I'm going to call this a win for unionised labour. The ATC Union were kind of the pressure that broke the stalemate and even though the Dems can definitely be hailed for not caving they didn't exactly have to do much other than say no and not break ranks. The pressure wasn't even that high on them: broad public and critical support, a clear idealogical and policy position to take, the moral high ground...
The shutdown was a massive gift to the Dems. They wrapped it up in a bow and sent it to the House Majority Leader on a silver platter. I can't believe what an unbelievably unforced error this was for the GOP and I bet a lot of GOP Senators feel the same way. That's kind of a big deal.
I think the biggest thing the dems did is perfectly craft their message from the outset, then exhibit the discipline to have everyone stay on message. The fact that they started with popular support helped, and this began with an unforced error by Trump ("I am proud to shut down the government" is one for the history books), but the dems played this perfectly.
Maybe we would have won eventually regardless, but we won earlier than we might have, and with a huge bump in popularity for both the dems in general and house leadership in particular.
This is picking off a bad throw and then using it to drive 50 yards for a touchdown.
And we got VAWA extension, which is basically teabagging the opposing quarterback.
Also a day full of Pelosi dunking on Trump, which, I'm out of sports metaphors, but today was pretty good guys.
Trump claiming the shutdown wasn't an unforced error. It was a forced one. Pelosi played him like a fucking ukulele and goaded him into making a dominance play in front of the cameras.
The Democrats did a ton to win this fight. They poked Trump at every step to make him make mistakes, they stayed on message, they stayed unified, kept their eyes on the prize and they played the media game very well to keep the narrative on their side. This is how you play politics well.
He was dumb enough to say that he would force another shut down of he doesnt get what he wants.
During what was essentially his concession speech.
I wouldn’t go that far, but he’s really doing his best to hamstring the biggest advantage that encumbents have going into their re-elect.
He’s quickly becoming known as ‘the shutdown president’
Now I don't think he believes this was a concession speech, just a bump in the road.
But he explicitly acknowledges/stated:
- the pain workers are feeling
- that he is the party seeking to get something out of this deal
- that the next shut down is predicated on his satisfaction
Republicans in the Senate can go one of two ways with this:
- They can try to craft a compromise bill, which will be hard work and if remotely acceptable to Democrats will be highly likely to being thrown out by Trump. They still want his base voters so the chance of them defying him with a veto override is slim.
- They don't negotiate in good faith, pass something that will make the base and Trump happy, piss and moan in the press and when the government shuts down again do everything they can to further push the President into throwing in the towel.
Any bill that Democrats will consider fair enough of a trade for actual wall money and not "border security funds" ear marked for elsewhere is going to be primary fuel for the GOP base.
We're either going to be shut down until the economy and markets grind to a halt and take a huge, unignorable shit or the President is going to be convinced to quit.
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I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the complete abdication of duty by senate republicans. They were 100% in support of a clean CR always, as indicated by the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR before Trumps Tantrum, and the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR after Trumps Tantrum. Which means they completely ignored all of their duties and actual beliefs to follow whatever Trump wanted. While hundreds of thousands of people suffered.
I'm not sure if their motivation was "obey Trump's wishes" as much as it was "we must do what it takes to make the Democrats look bad."
Not that that helps any - Cleek-level spite with these sorts of price tags is probably even more contemptible than just, as Pelosi put it, effectively disbanding the Senate less it upset the president.
I think the thing that pisses me off the most is the complete abdication of duty by senate republicans. They were 100% in support of a clean CR always, as indicated by the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR before Trumps Tantrum, and the unanimous vote to pass a clean CR after Trumps Tantrum. Which means they completely ignored all of their duties and actual beliefs to follow whatever Trump wanted. While hundreds of thousands of people suffered.
I'm not sure if their motivation was "obey Trump's wishes" as much as it was "we must do what it takes to make the Democrats look bad."
Not that that helps any - Cleek-level spite with these sorts of price tags is probably even more contemptible than just, as Pelosi put it, effectively disbanding the Senate less it upset the president.
Their motivation was "don't cross Trump or he will sink our chances at reelection". That's literally all this was about. Most of them, maybe all of them, didn't want this fight. The only thing that kept them in line was fear of Trump.
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No, he's saying "I'm still gonna win. I didn't lose." And he's saying he's gonna win by forcing the Democrats to agree to fund the Wall or he's gonna shut the government down again.
Look at that power
A single signature ending the longest shutdown in history
Because our president is a racist coward who can’t win by honest debate and votes about an issue
Just in time for the weekend!
Everyone can go back to work and get paid... next week. :razz:
There is no more accurate descriptor for every single one of them than "cowards"
I disagree. I mean, we'll find out either way in three weeks since I doubt any funding for the wall passes the house, but the way I parse that text is that he is moving on to the next thing. If he wanted another shutdown it should read more like "then it's time for round two." Coupled with the amount of times he's said humanitarian crisis on TV, I really do think he is 100% on board with declaring an emergency. He is just waiting for the right moment.
From NYT
Arguing that Democrats are the real losers here is certainly a hot take
They literally have nothing else to run with.
Yes, they've really walled themselves off from projecting strength. They have their backs to the wall, now. Hell, I bet they're getting plastered as we speak.
So, Conference Committee on the DHS appropriations, but any chance they can just full fiscal year CR the other 5 Appropriations Bills between now and the 15th?
Anyways, I think the next three weeks should be all about hammering out the details in law on how to not allow our government to shut down ever again.
Now I don't think he believes this was a concession speech, just a bump in the road.
But he explicitly acknowledges/stated:
- the pain workers are feeling
- that he is the party seeking to get something out of this deal
- that the next shut down is predicated on his satisfaction
Republicans in the Senate can go one of two ways with this:
- They can try to craft a compromise bill, which will be hard work and if remotely acceptable to Democrats will be highly likely to being thrown out by Trump. They still want his base voters so the chance of them defying him with a veto override is slim.
- They don't negotiate in good faith, pass something that will make the base and Trump happy, piss and moan in the press and when the government shuts down again do everything they can to further push the President into throwing in the towel.
Any bill that Democrats will consider fair enough of a trade for actual wall money and not "border security funds" ear marked for elsewhere is going to be primary fuel for the GOP base.
We're either going to be shut down until the economy and markets grind to a halt and take a huge, unignorable shit or the President is going to be convinced to quit.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I'm not sure if their motivation was "obey Trump's wishes" as much as it was "we must do what it takes to make the Democrats look bad."
Not that that helps any - Cleek-level spite with these sorts of price tags is probably even more contemptible than just, as Pelosi put it, effectively disbanding the Senate less it upset the president.
Their motivation was "don't cross Trump or he will sink our chances at reelection". That's literally all this was about. Most of them, maybe all of them, didn't want this fight. The only thing that kept them in line was fear of Trump.
A mod will make a new thread if a shutdown occurs again. Let's take a break for now.
If you have questions about starting other politics threads please PM more than one mod to get answers.
Thanks everyone who kept us all up to date on this debacle, and may we never see this bullshit again.
Geth, close the thread.