Just finished E4. Man, I’m sad that Saulnier didn’t finish out the season, but boy oh boy am I also relieved. After this episode’s ending, I can’t begin to imagine the gore he would have put us through.
Wait, no. I actually can, which is why I’m relieved.
Suit man amongst the nightmare fallen. I assumed this was Roland and was trying to discern if it was him. That Hays at some point killed him and doesn't remember. I think it definitely isn't Stephen Dorff playing the shadow looking down (there must have been a reason the guy didn't show his face). I still think its possible it will be revealed to be him and they purposefully didn't use him to make it obvious this first time but he might become more clear and obvious later. Or not.
About the show girl. I think the other half of the theory was that it could possibly be the daughter of the missing girl.
2nd glass in hotel room. I think his son is having an affair with her. Or it is her mom (the missing girl), they sit and scheme in hotel room playing mind games on Hays.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Suit man amongst the nightmare fallen. I assumed this was Roland and was trying to discern if it was him. That Hays at some point killed him and doesn't remember. I think it definitely isn't Stephen Dorff playing the shadow looking down (there must have been a reason the guy didn't show his face). I still think its possible it will be revealed to be him and they purposefully didn't use him to make it obvious this first time but he might become more clear and obvious later. Or not.
About the show girl. I think the other half of the theory was that it could possibly be the daughter of the missing girl.
2nd glass in hotel room. I think his son is having an affair with her. Or it is her mom (the missing girl), they sit and scheme in hotel room playing mind games on Hays.
If the tv woman is Julie's daughter that has dark connotations given that Julie would be 46 and the tv woman is at least 30. It might contextually make sense as part of an abduction story but I'm not sure they'd go there given that it's still tv.
Something I hadn’t really considered until episode 4
There’s a possibility that Hayes’ daughter is no longer alive in 2015, and nobody has the heart to remind him of that.
We see him talking to her in his office shortly before all the “ghosts” (which I’m going to assume are all people he killed or failed to save) show up. And in the earlier episode the son was being really vague about why she’s not around anymore.
I buy her being dead, or else them having some kind of serious falling out that he doesn't remember.
But I don't think the vision is an indication. I'm fairly certain that he saw both the son and the daughter running through the hallway following the first scene where he talks to the wife and we know the son's not dead.
When everything is so dour and languid, when entire episodes go by and I have to remind myself to unfurrow my brow, little nuggets of humor really go a long way.
So, I'm thinking in 1980
the crime gets pinned on the Trashman. I think the cops in the 80's looked at blowing up white guys as "suspicious behavior." He's an easy sell for all kinds of bullshit. Also, he's got 2 kids out there that will be the right age in 1990 to come back into his life looking to reconcile by fighting his bogus conviction.
Also, I think Amelia is on to something with the accident angle. The bloody rock was a permanent feature of the murder site, I don't think a lot of murders go down by beating the murder weapon with the victim. Amelia herself still feels really sketchy, though. She inserts herself into the investigation like she knows something. Wild prediction, she knows the killer and the details of Will's death.
+6
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Apparently episode 5 is up on HBONow
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I have a lot of nice things to say about this season so far: the laser-tight focus that S2 lacked, the use of faulty memory as a framing device so as to enable reveals and ratchet up dramatic tension, the willingness of the script to roll up its sleeves and dig elbow deep into systemic racism, veterans' issues and the effects of PTSD, the inherent biases of law enforcement, the irrationality of mob justice, and much more
But one thing stands out that I find so rarely in media: this is a story which highlights non-toxic relationships (especially masculine ones) with flawed characters trying to do right by each other, grappling with the consequences of failing to live up to their ideals, and reconciling when genuine contrition is offered.
I don't hate these protagonists, they don't hate each other, and when they conflict it's for understandable emotional reasons that they can resolve through communication and openness.
The mystery is interesting, but these characters are honestly compelling.
+9
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
edited February 2019
Ep 5
So now we know they murdered a guy in 1990 and covered it up. I think it’s Tom Purcell. After the girl claiming to be Julie calls the police, they look at Tom very differently.
And critically, in 2015 Roland refers to “that guy whose name you just said” which I believe means Tom, since that’s who Hayes brings up immediately before Roland’s line. And why can’t he say the name? Because he’s guilty over what they did. He knows Tom was innocent. And he knows they killed him.
I guess it could theoretically be this Harris James dude that gets brought up a few times...he’s the cop who was in charge of the Woodard crime scene where the kids’ personal items were found/planted
knitdan on
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
E5
I could have sworn he was talking about the uncle, who's body was found in the quarry.
My read was that they figured the uncle for drilling the peep hole in the closet, linking him to the girl in creepy ways.
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
+3
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
That last scene on the porch was surprisingly powerful. These actors are knocking it out of the park.
So now we know they murdered a guy in 1990 and covered it up. I think it’s Tom Purcell. After the girl claiming to be Julie calls the police, they look at Tom very differently.
And critically, in 2015 Roland refers to “that guy whose name you just said” which I believe means Tom, since that’s who Hayes brings up immediately before Roland’s line. And why can’t he say the name? Because he’s guilty over what they did. He knows Tom was innocent. And he knows they killed him.
I guess it could theoretically be this Harris James dude that gets brought up a few times...he’s the cop who was in charge of the Woodard crime scene where the kids’ personal items were found/planted
Pretty sure the two names were the Uncle and Harris James because those are the two people the TV lady mentions being dead.
Damn, this season is really good. AresProphet did a great job summing up why. The writing and the acting are just top rate. The story is definitely interesting, and I want to know where it’s all going, but it is definitely secondary to the relationships and that exploration.
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Seriously, that moment when Hays:
Tells Roland he’s sorry, but he can’t remember why. And Roland starts tearing up when he realizes how bad it’s gotten for his old partner.
If you told me two DECADES ago that Deacon Frost would just be killin' it on prestige television, I'd have laughed you out of the room.
And I would have been so wrong!
Steven Dorff will always be the kid from The Gate, to me.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
edited February 2019
What I found most remarkable about e5
Showing the difference between two men, approximately the same age, with one being in control of his faculties and the other losing his.
Life is goddamned unfair.
CaptainPeacock on
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
I could have sworn he was talking about the uncle, who's body was found in the quarry.
My read was that they figured the uncle for drilling the peep hole in the closet, linking him to the girl in creepy ways.
Not that it changes creepiness factor, but I thought the peephole was drilled to look at his cousin (the mom)?
Thrilled with this season. You can really feel in the writing the extra time given to Pizzalatto and the guiding hand of David Milch to really restrain some of Nick's excesses from season 2. Also a flair for deadwood style verbal repartee.
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Drake ChambersLay out my formal shorts.Registered Userregular
The troubled marriage is also brilliantly handled. I hate watching those scenes - they're painful - but they're both right about how the other is wrong.
+5
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I could have sworn he was talking about the uncle, who's body was found in the quarry.
My read was that they figured the uncle for drilling the peep hole in the closet, linking him to the girl in creepy ways.
Not that it changes creepiness factor, but I thought the peephole was drilled to look at his cousin (the mom)?
Haven't seen anyone else mention it... What are we supposed to make of
the scene where Old Hays is frantically searching for his family around the house, then sees his younger self in bed with the wife and kids reading a story. Old Hays pushes the door open wider, looking at them, then the camera cuts to Medium Hays' POV and we see the door swinging open on its own with an empty hallway beyond.
I believe that's the first time something odd happens involving not-Old Hays. The rest of the supernatural shenanigans are all easily explicable as Old Hays' dementia.
New theory: Old Hays is the murderer in 1980. Or else has a dementia-fueled vision of himself killing the kids and convinces himself that he did it, leaving us to be uncertain whether he has fallen out of time somehow and is the murderer or has solved the murder but we don't get to see the face of the actual killer.
My wife swears that the guy running the Chicken Factory did it. She has no real proof why, just a hunch.
Honestly I can't fault her logic on this show.
Someone with power is pulling strings I think
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
General thing not episode specific
I'm still going crazy that they haven't gone back and talked to the the grandparents of the kids that mentioned a different dad. THAT SEEMS IMPORTANT GUYS MAYBE CHECK THAT OUT.
This season seems to be doing a thing where it uses a fictional example to incorporate multiple ways in which the investigation of one or more crimes has been famously compromised in the last few decades, or overblown in media:
-Satanic Panic of the 80
-Tainted Halloween gifts
-Police publicly releasing investigative details for political reasons, tipping off possible suspects
-Police brutality undermining the credibility of the detectives
-Racial prejudice in how the media reports on victims ("of course they were white, they were on TV")
-True crime TV/books scrutinizing every aspect of the investigation with hindsight
-Biased journalists angling for a sensationalist story and/or crusading to overturn a conviction
There's a whole lot going on in subtle ways. It's early in the season but I have a feeling that the main theme is going to be about asking how can justice really be carried out when so many people in law enforcement, media, and the public at large are working towards some kind of agenda, driven by our incessant need to know all the lurid details. Is the genre of True Crime itself a part of the problem?
Is watching a show like True Detective just contributing to the larger issue of tainted justice?
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
This season seems to be doing a thing where it uses a fictional example to incorporate multiple ways in which the investigation of one or more crimes has been famously compromised in the last few decades, or overblown in media:
-Satanic Panic of the 80
-Tainted Halloween gifts
-Police publicly releasing investigative details for political reasons, tipping off possible suspects
-Police brutality undermining the credibility of the detectives
-Racial prejudice in how the media reports on victims ("of course they were white, they were on TV")
-True crime TV/books scrutinizing every aspect of the investigation with hindsight
-Biased journalists angling for a sensationalist story and/or crusading to overturn a conviction
There's a whole lot going on in subtle ways. It's early in the season but I have a feeling that the main theme is going to be about asking how can justice really be carried out when so many people in law enforcement, media, and the public at large are working towards some kind of agenda, driven by our incessant need to know all the lurid details. Is the genre of True Crime itself a part of the problem?
Is watching a show like True Detective just contributing to the larger issue of tainted justice?
I mean there's only 3 episodes left, so it's not that early!
I could have sworn he was talking about the uncle, who's body was found in the quarry.
My read was that they figured the uncle for drilling the peep hole in the closet, linking him to the girl in creepy ways.
Not that it changes creepiness factor, but I thought the peephole was drilled to look at his cousin (the mom)?
It was looking into the little girls room.
See, I think the initial read is that it's supposed to be a peephole, and the uncle is certainly a hanging thread, but at the same time, there's another possibility.
You notice the 8 or so little notes that were taken saying things like "it's ok"? They had been rolled or folded up, small enough to pass through the hole between the bedrooms. There's several mentions of the kids looking out for each other, which does raise questions if they were passing these notes to each other at home. Something going on in one kid's bedroom when they're both locked in?
to his partner "but you remember some stuff? You know me, right?
is fucking heartbreaking.
+7
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Well, now things are definitely leaning in a specific direction
Ep6
What do you think Tom sees at the end in the pink room to make him say “Julie?” I’m hoping it’s just a painting or a picture but I’m also afraid the reopened investigation spooked the kidnappers and she got killed.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Oh and also
whoever called “that one state trooper being played by a medium profile actor indicates there’s more to that character” was spot on.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I haven't read any of the spoilered theories yet, and probably won't until after the last episode, but it seems clear to me that
the whole call about "the man on TV" is a massive misdirect because the attorney general or whatever his position is at the time was also on the the TV and she's totally talking about him and I'm just waiting for that to be the case.
Or me to be totally wrong but whatever
+1
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
I haven't read any of the spoilered theories yet, and probably won't until after the last episode, but it seems clear to me that
the whole call about "the man on TV" is a massive misdirect because the attorney general or whatever his position is at the time was also on the the TV and she's totally talking about him and I'm just waiting for that to be the case.
Or me to be totally wrong but whatever
Except the full quote is
“the man on TV claiming to be my father”
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I haven't read any of the spoilered theories yet, and probably won't until after the last episode, but it seems clear to me that
the whole call about "the man on TV" is a massive misdirect because the attorney general or whatever his position is at the time was also on the the TV and she's totally talking about him and I'm just waiting for that to be the case.
Or me to be totally wrong but whatever
Except the full quote is
“the man on TV claiming to be my father”
well my thought is AG was pretending to be her father in whatever fashion either before or especially after she disappears. Some sort of weird child abduction thing.
I'm only halfway through the latest episode but the way the tape was presented, I dunno, I can see it being a major misdirect. But maybe in the next half hour or last two episodes I might be totally wrong
the mother sold the daughter to a sex traffic ring. Only question now is who knew about it and wanted to help her escape. I'm not sure if the DA is in on it, as I'm sure he's just a sleazebag who wanted the bad press to go away and NOT because he wanted to cut of the investigation to keep the detectives from looking at the chicken factory.
Posts
Wait, no. I actually can, which is why I’m relieved.
About the show girl. I think the other half of the theory was that it could possibly be the daughter of the missing girl.
2nd glass in hotel room. I think his son is having an affair with her. Or it is her mom (the missing girl), they sit and scheme in hotel room playing mind games on Hays.
But I don't think the vision is an indication. I'm fairly certain that he saw both the son and the daughter running through the hallway following the first scene where he talks to the wife and we know the son's not dead.
So, I'm thinking in 1980
Also, I think Amelia is on to something with the accident angle. The bloody rock was a permanent feature of the murder site, I don't think a lot of murders go down by beating the murder weapon with the victim. Amelia herself still feels really sketchy, though. She inserts herself into the investigation like she knows something. Wild prediction, she knows the killer and the details of Will's death.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
But one thing stands out that I find so rarely in media: this is a story which highlights non-toxic relationships (especially masculine ones) with flawed characters trying to do right by each other, grappling with the consequences of failing to live up to their ideals, and reconciling when genuine contrition is offered.
I don't hate these protagonists, they don't hate each other, and when they conflict it's for understandable emotional reasons that they can resolve through communication and openness.
The mystery is interesting, but these characters are honestly compelling.
And critically, in 2015 Roland refers to “that guy whose name you just said” which I believe means Tom, since that’s who Hayes brings up immediately before Roland’s line. And why can’t he say the name? Because he’s guilty over what they did. He knows Tom was innocent. And he knows they killed him.
I guess it could theoretically be this Harris James dude that gets brought up a few times...he’s the cop who was in charge of the Woodard crime scene where the kids’ personal items were found/planted
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
My read was that they figured the uncle for drilling the peep hole in the closet, linking him to the girl in creepy ways.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
And I would have been so wrong!
That shit had me almost crying myself.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Steven Dorff will always be the kid from The Gate, to me.
Life is goddamned unfair.
Aging and what goes along with it is my absolute biggest fear in life.
That scene was so well done, hit me in the feels and the fear and felt so real and man it was rough for me.
The ONLY flaw in this theory is that they weren’t born yet.
I believe that's the first time something odd happens involving not-Old Hays. The rest of the supernatural shenanigans are all easily explicable as Old Hays' dementia.
New theory: Old Hays is the murderer in 1980. Or else has a dementia-fueled vision of himself killing the kids and convinces himself that he did it, leaving us to be uncertain whether he has fallen out of time somehow and is the murderer or has solved the murder but we don't get to see the face of the actual killer.
Honestly I can't fault her logic on this show.
-Tainted Halloween gifts
-Police publicly releasing investigative details for political reasons, tipping off possible suspects
-Police brutality undermining the credibility of the detectives
-Racial prejudice in how the media reports on victims ("of course they were white, they were on TV")
-True crime TV/books scrutinizing every aspect of the investigation with hindsight
-Biased journalists angling for a sensationalist story and/or crusading to overturn a conviction
There's a whole lot going on in subtle ways. It's early in the season but I have a feeling that the main theme is going to be about asking how can justice really be carried out when so many people in law enforcement, media, and the public at large are working towards some kind of agenda, driven by our incessant need to know all the lurid details. Is the genre of True Crime itself a part of the problem?
Is watching a show like True Detective just contributing to the larger issue of tainted justice?
I mean there's only 3 episodes left, so it's not that early!
First 2 seasons were 8 episodes and wiki is showing 8 again for this one.
Which also means, strap in!
Shits probably about to really start going down.
Oh well, better I learned now.
You notice the 8 or so little notes that were taken saying things like "it's ok"? They had been rolled or folded up, small enough to pass through the hole between the bedrooms. There's several mentions of the kids looking out for each other, which does raise questions if they were passing these notes to each other at home. Something going on in one kid's bedroom when they're both locked in?
is fucking heartbreaking.
Ep6
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Or me to be totally wrong but whatever
Except the full quote is
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I'm only halfway through the latest episode but the way the tape was presented, I dunno, I can see it being a major misdirect. But maybe in the next half hour or last two episodes I might be totally wrong