[Civilization] throw out your Valentines, Gather your Storms

enlightenedbum · February 1

OK, watched a dude who didn't seem that great play as Mali and he was making 100+ gold on like turn 80. He did have a kind of bonkers start with silver next to Kilimanjaro within sight of his capital though.

Hardtarget · February 4

people, you get to play as canada now.

pft, no new features indeed.

Dhalphir · February 4

Haven't played Civ in a few years, and haven't played anything later than Civ IV. What am I in for if I pick up Civ6 and go, without any research?

Aldo · February 4

Dhalphir wrote: »

Haven't played Civ in a few years, and haven't played anything later than Civ IV. What am I in for if I pick up Civ6 and go, without any research?

You'd skip Civ V, which is a better game at time of writing.

Are you planning to pick up the base game, or do you want to join play with the new expansion when it arrives? I think that if you go in blind, start with the tutorial and leave Tooltips and Tips on you'll manage just fine. The game is pretty easy to understand, there's just a lot of it to keep track of.

Henroid · February 4

Hardtarget wrote: »

people, you get to play as canada now.

pft, no new features indeed.

What do you mean, we already could play as Canada.

Mr_Rose · February 4

Dhalphir wrote: »

Haven't played Civ in a few years, and haven't played anything later than Civ IV. What am I in for if I pick up Civ6 and go, without any research?

All the same basic concepts are there but implemented slightly differently; the map grid is hex-based rather than square, culture is directly generated by buildings in the same way universities and factories generate science and production and culture points are used to ‘research’ a second ‘tech’ tree of civics which allow you to modify your government and change the costs/yields of certain units/structures/functions. Finally, religion is much more of a thing; you can customise every one from a pool of ‘beliefs’ and religious units like missionaries and inquisitors can engage in religious combat (by summoning holy lightning to smite the foe, no less) as well as directly convert cities by yelling. Religious types also completely ignore petty earthly concerns like “borders” and so make excellent scouts if you’re prepared to pay attention to them.
Also, if you get the base game + Rise & Fall (not sure you can still get them separately, in fact) your cities can rebel, especially if you forward settle far from home, and you have much more direct control/knowledge of when you will enter a golden era or a dark age.

Rami · February 4

The big change after Civ 4 was one unit per tile, and far less spam of military units in general.

And with 6 you have districts which require more forward planning on your part to get the most out of their bonuses. Wonders also have to be built on an actual tile now so you need to consider that too.

Dhalphir · February 4

wow, one unit per tile

do you just have way less units?

or way more tiles

because it wasn't uncommon for knight conquests in the midgame to be upwards of 30 knights, nevermind the 20+ catapults that went along with it

enlightenedbum · February 4

Civ 6 is a game with way more interesting systems than Civ 5, both of which the AI is abominable at tactically.

Wassermelone · February 4

Dhalphir wrote: »

wow, one unit per tile

do you just have way less units?

or way more tiles

because it wasn't uncommon for knight conquests in the midgame to be upwards of 30 knights, nevermind the 20+ catapults that went along with it

Way less units. It works out way better than the death stack (in my opinion)

enlightenedbum wrote: »

Civ 6 is a game with way more interesting systems than Civ 5, both of which the AI is abominable at tactically.

Civ 6 is great but I'm not sold on the positioning bonuses/requirements of districts. Having to plan out the location of your districts 30-100 turns before you get them just really isn't my favorite. I feel like one of the problems with civ and 4x games in general is eventually the game is sort of auto pilot based on decisions you make early on/have to make early on and the districts kind of exacerbate that.

Dhalphir · February 4

I quite liked the death stack. I felt that, against humans, the suicide catapults prevented the stacks from becoming too obnoxious and you would willingly and intentionally split your units up.

Against AI though it was stack of death all day.

But I'm open to some new mechanics, though it looks like opinion is now a bit split on whether to go for V or VI.

Ivan Hunger · February 4

Dhalphir wrote: »

But I'm open to some new mechanics, though it looks like opinion is now a bit split on whether to go for V or VI.

If you want a more difficult singleplayer turn based strategy game, get Civ 5.

If you want a game that will ask you to make a lot more decisions that are a lot more interesting, and will also give you a very pretty empire to look at, get Civ 6.

DarkMecha · February 4

1upt all the way for me, I hate doom stacks! Then again though I also really like Age of Wonders, so you know where I'm coming from.

I play Civ for the fun of it more than challenge. The AI will never be as smart as a human, but that is ok because you can find all kinds of ways to make it challenging if you are open minded about it. Or don't and just enjoy seeing how the game plays out even if it is easy this time around, it's whatever.

Jealous Deva · February 4

Ivan Hunger wrote: »

Dhalphir wrote: »

But I'm open to some new mechanics, though it looks like opinion is now a bit split on whether to go for V or VI.

If you want a more difficult singleplayer turn based strategy game, get Civ 5.

If you want a game that will ask you to make a lot more decisions that are a lot more interesting, and will also give you a very pretty empire to look at, get Civ 6.

I don’t even know if I would say civ 5 is more difficult. Maybe for the novice, but once you get a hold on what you are doing it isn’t that hard. Civ 5 just has a lot of newbie traps, that once you learn to sidestep make the game a lot easier.

Absalon · February 4

Apart from a strong slant towards going wide and warring early, Civ VI just feels more varied and challenging in every way as you have to specialize your cities and find a way towards a victory of your choice reasonably early on without relying on a few wonders.

enlightenedbum · February 4

Absalon wrote: »

Apart from a strong slant towards going wide and warring early, Civ VI just feels more varied and challenging in every way as you have to specialize your cities and find a way towards a victory of your choice reasonably early on without relying on a few wonders.

Eh. Not before Immortal, in my experience. Though Emperor is annoying because of the extra settler.

Jealous Deva · February 5

Elanor d’Aquitaine looks better than I expected, she can get instant loyalty flips rather than having to go through a free city intermediatr period and great works for her basically “loyalty bomb” enemy cities.

Also different outfit depending on england vs france which is a nice bit of extra effort.

Absalon · February 5

Eleanor of Aquitaine leads France and England.

LUA: Court of Love - Great Works produce -1 Loyalty in enemy cities within 9 tiles. When cities join her civilization due to loyalty pressure, they skip the Free City stage of their transfer.

Zombie Hero · February 5

Did she just flip a capital city at the 1:40 mark?

Henroid · February 5

Holy shit that's a brilliant idea for a civ leader, mechanically - can be applied to two different civs. Also I love learning about people from history so yay!

Al_wat · February 5

Dhalphir wrote: »

I quite liked the death stack. I felt that, against humans, the suicide catapults prevented the stacks from becoming too obnoxious and you would willingly and intentionally split your units up.

Against AI though it was stack of death all day.

But I'm open to some new mechanics, though it looks like opinion is now a bit split on whether to go for V or VI.

civ 5 got rid of stacks altogether, civ 6 brought back elements of them. Through the tech tree you can unlock the ability to form Corps and later Armies. A corp is basically a two stack of a unit, and an army is three. You can't "unstack" a corp or army though, it just functions as a new stronger unit merged from two or three normal ones.

Personally I like civ 6 better than civ 5, but civ 5 is still really great. Civ 6 is better now than at release.

Henroid · February 5

Henroid wrote: »

Holy shit that's a brilliant idea for a civ leader, mechanically - can be applied to two different civs. Also I love learning about people from history so yay!

*gets to the stuff about her marriage annulment*

Lordy the Dark Ages were WILD, y'all.

Inquisitor77 · February 5

Wassermelone wrote: »

Dhalphir wrote: »

wow, one unit per tile

do you just have way less units?

or way more tiles

because it wasn't uncommon for knight conquests in the midgame to be upwards of 30 knights, nevermind the 20+ catapults that went along with it

Way less units. It works out way better than the death stack (in my opinion)

enlightenedbum wrote: »

Civ 6 is a game with way more interesting systems than Civ 5, both of which the AI is abominable at tactically.

Civ 6 is great but I'm not sold on the positioning bonuses/requirements of districts. Having to plan out the location of your districts 30-100 turns before you get them just really isn't my favorite. I feel like one of the problems with civ and 4x games in general is eventually the game is sort of auto pilot based on decisions you make early on/have to make early on and the districts kind of exacerbate that.

You know what, this really hit the nail on the head for me as to why I don't seem to like Civ 6 as much as the previous entries. Some of it is likely just franchise fatigue, for sure. But Civ 6 just has SO MUCH SHIT going on that you have to plan for like, right when you start. The payoff for long-term planning is almost too high, because if you don't pre-plan almost everything you can end up in some pretty rough spots. But once you do lay everything out, you're basically doing color-by-numbers for the rest of the game.

Bullhead · February 5

Inquisitor77 wrote: »

Wassermelone wrote: »

Dhalphir wrote: »

wow, one unit per tile

do you just have way less units?

or way more tiles

because it wasn't uncommon for knight conquests in the midgame to be upwards of 30 knights, nevermind the 20+ catapults that went along with it

Way less units. It works out way better than the death stack (in my opinion)

enlightenedbum wrote: »

Civ 6 is a game with way more interesting systems than Civ 5, both of which the AI is abominable at tactically.

Civ 6 is great but I'm not sold on the positioning bonuses/requirements of districts. Having to plan out the location of your districts 30-100 turns before you get them just really isn't my favorite. I feel like one of the problems with civ and 4x games in general is eventually the game is sort of auto pilot based on decisions you make early on/have to make early on and the districts kind of exacerbate that.

You know what, this really hit the nail on the head for me as to why I don't seem to like Civ 6 as much as the previous entries. Some of it is likely just franchise fatigue, for sure. But Civ 6 just has SO MUCH SHIT going on that you have to plan for like, right when you start. The payoff for long-term planning is almost too high, because if you don't pre-plan almost everything you can end up in some pretty rough spots. But once you do lay everything out, you're basically doing color-by-numbers for the rest of the game.

The districts are largely what keeps me from playing VI. I like the split tech/culture trees, combat's pretty good, and overall I'm happy with the newest iteration. I despise districts, I frequently feel like I have hamstrung cities that can't live up to their potential b/c I haven't unlocked the tile for the that district, or grown big enough for another one. I think they'd suck less if you could at least build the base building of each type (science/culture/econ/etc) in the main city, or maybe a few levels of it, before having to specialize. I know they're popular with many players, but it s what has driven me back to civ 5 for my civ fix. Ironically the same concept (sorta) I like in Endless Legend.

Snicketysnick · February 5

Absalon wrote: »

Eleanor of Aquitaine leads France and England.

LUA: Court of Love - Great Works produce -1 Loyalty in enemy cities within 9 tiles. When cities join her civilization due to loyalty pressure, they skip the Free City stage of their transfer.

Gosh I love this, culture timebombs rule and she looks like a Disney Princess

Ivan Hunger · February 5

The free city period can be useful since sometimes you want to raze the city instead of flipping it.

Her ability also has a lot more synergy with France than it does with England, but it is nice that England has a less aggressive leader option now. If I ever had to play as them, I'd choose her over Victoria.

Gundi · February 5

Death stacks were a dumb mechanic that made combat in earlier games way less interesting.

edit: also I mean Eleanor still seems like a pretty aggressive leader.

Ivan Hunger · February 5

Gundi wrote: »

edit: also I mean Eleanor still seems like a pretty aggressive leader.

I mean in comparison. Taking cities though loyalty doesn't give your rival grievances, unlike Victoria's direct approach.

enlightenedbum · February 5

That doesn't really synergize with either country very well, even though it's neat. Put her in charge of, I dunno, Russia? That'd be fun times.

Zombie Hero · February 5

Did they say anywhere if Artifacts and Relics count towards great works?

Ivan Hunger · February 5

enlightenedbum wrote: »

That doesn't really synergize with either country very well, even though it's neat. Put her in charge of, I dunno, Russia? That'd be fun times.

I wish they would bring back Elective Leaders Mode from Civ 4. Tamar of Arabia would be amazing.

enlightenedbum · February 5

Though I've seen some reports that the Lavra doesn't have its great person points anymore.

Zombie Hero · February 5

Ivan Hunger wrote: »

enlightenedbum wrote: »

That doesn't really synergize with either country very well, even though it's neat. Put her in charge of, I dunno, Russia? That'd be fun times.

I wish they would bring back Elective Leaders Mode from Civ 4. Tamar of Arabia would be amazing.

There would be so many busted combinations that it would be super exciting to try it out. Maybe there is a mod out there that already does it?

Klatu · February 5

Holy crap Eleanor looks amazing.

Mr_Rose · February 7

Oh, hey, news:
Civ VI is free to play on Steam over the weekend before release. Anyone who hasn’t dipped their toe in yet, this is your chance.

Archsorcerer · February 7

Mr_Rose wrote: »

Oh, hey, news:
Civ VI is free to play on Steam over the weekend before release. Anyone who hasn’t dipped their toe in yet, this is your chance.

Gonna try it.

My only experience with Civ is playing Beyond Earth + Rising Tide. Which faction comes close to Duncan and the water cities? The Maori?

enlightenedbum · February 7

Archsorcerer wrote: »

Mr_Rose wrote: »

Oh, hey, news:
Civ VI is free to play on Steam over the weekend before release. Anyone who hasn’t dipped their toe in yet, this is your chance.

Gonna try it.

My only experience with Civ is playing Beyond Earth + Rising Tide. Which faction comes close to Duncan and the water cities? The Maori?

They're not out yet. Probably Indonesia or Netherlands?

Jealous Deva · February 7

Archsorcerer wrote: »

Mr_Rose wrote: »

Oh, hey, news:
Civ VI is free to play on Steam over the weekend before release. Anyone who hasn’t dipped their toe in yet, this is your chance.

Gonna try it.

My only experience with Civ is playing Beyond Earth + Rising Tide. Which faction comes close to Duncan and the water cities? The Maori?

I would say probably indonesia, they can build up cities on very water heavy areas fairly easily (though they still need at least some land to drop the city on).

Eat it You Nasty Pig. · February 7

there's nothing really like aquatic cities in five, but indonesia are the the best at taking weird island chains and making them into something useful

Veevee · February 7

Firaxis owns my wallet, so I have gathering storm ready to go. If anyone wants to try some multiplayer on the 16th hit me up on steam.

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