I still find it fucking wild that the Nazis straight up made a site called Hatereon and the freeze peach folks still defended it.
Last month Jordan Peterson deleted his Patreon that was making one million dollars a year to protest Sargon being banned for literally shouting the n word. Truly mind boggling.
I sent a personal congratulations to everyone I know at Patreon on behalf of PA when this happened.
The only thing I can see is this statement "The company does not currently provide contracts, which allows users to retain 100 percent ownership of their work and full control of their brand." and there's nothing that says that's like, going to stop.
I think the thing here is Dan Olsen doesn't really know what he's talking about, but he's the kind of person who always wants to appear as though he knows what he's talking about.
Patreon definitely want to pivot towards offering an enterprise model, and there's a ton of options for them to do that. A complicated Patreon offering like Club PA, for example, requires a lot of development time. Saying "Hey, for a higher cut our developers who are the world's leading expert on the Patreon API will do that for you" would be an extremely attractive offer to a lot of businesses. PA is literally on top of a fulfillment operation and our physical rewards are still extremely complicated, if Patreon starts offering fulfillment/storage for physical rewards (they definitely, definitely will) people will absolutely get huge value from that. If that fulfillment offering also comes with a merch designer or some kind of teespring affair? Anyone who doesn't have a full time design staff will jump at that. Patreon can also do all of these things at a scale that allows an efficiency that a private business is unlikely to be able to match.
This is pretty bog standard SaaS stuff, and it doesn't have to mean changes for the average creator. Essentially the larger ticket creators pay more to subsidise the smaller scale creators (who I suspect are often operating at a loss for Patreon).
Disclaimer: no insider knowledge, this is me spitballing.
sure, that all sounds good, but it seems like the ceo of patreon would be pushing it as a way to offer new, helpful services to creators which will also help grow patreon in the process and not a push to make patreon sustainable. it sounds more sinister with the framing they themselves have added, at least to me.
It's a shame that the internet is, at least in some ways, not necessarily delivering the power to independent creators and artists that it was assumed it would, at least not to the extent that it was assumed it would.
I remember growing up that the internet was billed as a place where anyone could create anything, basically, and to some degree that's proven to be true (good and bad implications apply) but we've also seen a wildly shrinking landscape of places where artists and creative types can be seen on their own terms, just as we've seen various kinds of media sharing platforms explode in popularity.
I'm having a lot of trouble articulating the ultimate point I'm trying to make here, this is really frustrating
The problem was that the people who did that billing were the sort of wide eyed idealists who tend to see cows as spherical,and thus didn't really grasp that making media is actually a lot of work. (The fact that they also used a lot of rhetoric that dismissed such labor didn't help either.) It turns out that there are few people who have the skill set to do everything to have a successful creative business, because the required skill set is massive,and mostly impossible for one person to have. It turns out that the middlemen who routinely get attacked actually provide key experience, skills, and connections to creators - and they expect to be paid for that.
I still find it fucking wild that the Nazis straight up made a site called Hatereon and the freeze peach folks still defended it.
As the old saying goes, "you can be so open minded that your brain falls out." There's also a sense that a contingent of these people are the sort who do want to say horrible things without repercussions, but know that they can't say that out loud - thus the paeans to free speech.
My biggest issue with the whole thing is that I'm tired of people using the word "sustainable" when what they really mean is "make us the amount of incresing profits we want." Just admit you want to adjust the model to make more money. Don't couch it as sustainability when your current model is actually sustainable.
My biggest issue with the whole thing is that I'm tired of people using the word "sustainable" when what they really mean is "make us the amount of incresing profits we want." Just admit you want to adjust the model to make more money. Don't couch it as sustainability when your current model is actually sustainable.
They mean "sustainable growth" but this is still a very good point.
0
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
Well that's the ultimate rub here isn't it; even if a media product or whatever is super successful, it could in the eyes of shareholders be more successful. They don't want to just make money, they want to make all the money.
Patreon definitely want to pivot towards offering an enterprise model, and there's a ton of options for them to do that. A complicated Patreon offering like Club PA, for example, requires a lot of development time. Saying "Hey, for a higher cut our developers who are the world's leading expert on the Patreon API will do that for you" would be an extremely attractive offer to a lot of businesses. PA is literally on top of a fulfillment operation and our physical rewards are still extremely complicated, if Patreon starts offering fulfillment/storage for physical rewards (they definitely, definitely will) people will absolutely get huge value from that. If that fulfillment offering also comes with a merch designer or some kind of teespring affair? Anyone who doesn't have a full time design staff will jump at that. Patreon can also do all of these things at a scale that allows an efficiency that a private business is unlikely to be able to match.
This is pretty bog standard SaaS stuff, and it doesn't have to mean changes for the average creator. Essentially the larger ticket creators pay more to subsidise the smaller scale creators (who I suspect are often operating at a loss for Patreon).
Disclaimer: no insider knowledge, this is me spitballing.
I think what makes me nervous about this, is that do not see media creators having much leverage, and I know of no practical alternative.
So when the stock market says "we want more money outta you" in the future, maybe that's not gonna go well.
Also, the right-wing attack on public discourse is making me twitchy right now.
To say nothing of the fact that 5% of the money that is given to a Patreon goes to fees/taxes the platform has no control over
Acting like they're stealing that other 5% or somehow nefariously embezzling it is to suggest the actual services the platform provide should be provided for free. All that hosting and development and support and software and marketing is worth nothing.
Anyone got a good rec for prop making vids? I've been on a binge lately, watched through all of Odin Makes' videos basically.
Adam Savage's Tested has a bunch of prop builds, and features some other builders if I remember right which you could branch out to.
I just don't like them as that one guy just gushes over everything they do and they don't go into detail over some of them stuff I am interested in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyYeMQ3otZI
To say nothing of the fact that 5% of the money that is given to a Patreon goes to fees/taxes the platform has no control over
Acting like they're stealing that other 5% or somehow nefariously embezzling it is to suggest the actual services the platform provide should be provided for free. All that hosting and development and support and software and marketing is worth nothing.
Yeah, this is one of those things that I look at and just go "this person doesn't know how things happen". It's wildly outside of the frame of reality, and shows a basic ignorance of how businesses and especially software development works. I'm sure it feels good to say, and one feels like a cool, rebellious big deal when one says it, but it's nonsense. Like, at its base level Patreon is an extremely effective CMS that's 100% free at the point of service, and a payment processor that takes between 10-12% cut (including the external fees) to do something that, without Patreon, one likely has no actual ability to do anyway.
It's part of the whole weird movement about people not having a healthy and realistic view of how vendor relationships work. They want their vendor to be somewhere between a nanny and an obedient servant. Patreon is a fucking really, really cost effective service.
Like an example I think a lot of people don’t know about: you can run a podcast through Patreon 100% for free. Just upload it, set it to public and link people to it. You’ll have an RSS feed people can put in their app of choice. You’ll never pay Patreon a dime. There’ll be an option for people to pay you, and Patreon will take roughly ten percent out of that as both their cut and for their processors.
KamuiCosplay is actually the name of the team (Svetlana and Benni).
Svetlana is from Uzbekistan, and that video was when she was just beginning to speak English on YouTube. That girl has come a *long* way.
I still find it fucking wild that the Nazis straight up made a site called Hatereon and the freeze peach folks still defended it.
Last month Jordan Peterson deleted his Patreon that was making one million dollars a year to protest Sargon being banned for literally shouting the n word. Truly mind boggling.
While the alt-right isn't going anywhere, individually its figureheads can't seem to stop shooting themselves in the foot. I can't help wondering if it doesn't come down to their investors demanding geometric growth in their shitty behaviour. Like it's not enough to Own The Libs, every day you have to Own The Libs bigger and louder than you did yesterday, until eventually your only options are to bleed out supporters to the next up-and-coming shitbird or explode in a cloud of n-bombs and dietary supplements.
To say nothing of the fact that 5% of the money that is given to a Patreon goes to fees/taxes the platform has no control over
Acting like they're stealing that other 5% or somehow nefariously embezzling it is to suggest the actual services the platform provide should be provided for free. All that hosting and development and support and software and marketing is worth nothing.
I didn't see that as accusing Patreon of stealing that money, but rather that the way it's worded in the article makes it sound like Patreon is the one paying creators to make content, rather than content creators bringing in supporters which support both the creators and Patreon.
It was my knee jerk reaction too, frankly. Patreon isn't a content creation house paying out to contractors. They act as an aggregator and service operator for, seemingly, a relatively small (but still important) part of the business operation since they don't actually service payment transactions themselves (which is left to services like Paypal) and don't deal with fraudulent donations themselves either (which is left to the content creator to deal with however they can). The article gives the power entirely to Patreon rather than to the content creators, and seemingly most of the credit as well.
+5
Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
I find it hard to read Patreon's "our investors are pushing us to expand" as "so we're gonna do it by delivering more value!" after the travesty that was their last attempt to reinvent themselves. I mean, it's possible, but I don't see that optimism justified by anything.
I find it hard to read Patreon's "our investors are pushing us to expand" as "so we're gonna do it by delivering more value!" after the travesty that was their last attempt to reinvent themselves. I mean, it's possible, but I don't see that optimism justified by anything.
As a user of their service I am wary of nearly everything they do when they don't deliver the money they are supposed to several times a year to the point that they recently just started sending out e-mails telling us not to expect it.
Dan Olsen seems like an okay dude but also speaks with an air of authority about shit he has zero understanding of and honestly I feel like in the past two years we as a whole have only gotten worse about not being able to admit when we don't understand how something works and feeling like we need to give our flaming hot takes on everything.
WheatBun01 on
+3
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Any nurse or doctor who has worked in an ER will tell you that is fake. The level of calm is real, but those people don't call an ambulance they just show up and wait patiently in the waiting room. Unless they puncture something then it is straight to the head of the line
Gamertag: KL Retribution
PSN:Furlion
+1
#pipeCocky Stride, Musky odoursPope of Chili TownRegistered Userregular
It's from a very bad Family Guy style police cartoon on Netflix called Paradise PD
Posts
I sent a personal congratulations to everyone I know at Patreon on behalf of PA when this happened.
I think the thing here is Dan Olsen doesn't really know what he's talking about, but he's the kind of person who always wants to appear as though he knows what he's talking about.
sure, that all sounds good, but it seems like the ceo of patreon would be pushing it as a way to offer new, helpful services to creators which will also help grow patreon in the process and not a push to make patreon sustainable. it sounds more sinister with the framing they themselves have added, at least to me.
The problem was that the people who did that billing were the sort of wide eyed idealists who tend to see cows as spherical,and thus didn't really grasp that making media is actually a lot of work. (The fact that they also used a lot of rhetoric that dismissed such labor didn't help either.) It turns out that there are few people who have the skill set to do everything to have a successful creative business, because the required skill set is massive,and mostly impossible for one person to have. It turns out that the middlemen who routinely get attacked actually provide key experience, skills, and connections to creators - and they expect to be paid for that.
As the old saying goes, "you can be so open minded that your brain falls out." There's also a sense that a contingent of these people are the sort who do want to say horrible things without repercussions, but know that they can't say that out loud - thus the paeans to free speech.
Doesn't even seem technically true? They are providing a service not employing talent.
wish list
Steam wishlist
Etsy wishlist
They mean "sustainable growth" but this is still a very good point.
I think what makes me nervous about this, is that do not see media creators having much leverage, and I know of no practical alternative.
So when the stock market says "we want more money outta you" in the future, maybe that's not gonna go well.
Also, the right-wing attack on public discourse is making me twitchy right now.
Like what are you looking for?
Adam Savage's Tested has a bunch of prop builds, and features some other builders if I remember right which you could branch out to.
This is, in the real world, Complete nonsense.
To say nothing of the fact that 5% of the money that is given to a Patreon goes to fees/taxes the platform has no control over
Acting like they're stealing that other 5% or somehow nefariously embezzling it is to suggest the actual services the platform provide should be provided for free. All that hosting and development and support and software and marketing is worth nothing.
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
DFT props
Kamui Cosplay aka that odd German girl I post sometimes
Kat Valkyrie
I just don't like them as that one guy just gushes over everything they do and they don't go into detail over some of them stuff I am interested in
Yeah, this is one of those things that I look at and just go "this person doesn't know how things happen". It's wildly outside of the frame of reality, and shows a basic ignorance of how businesses and especially software development works. I'm sure it feels good to say, and one feels like a cool, rebellious big deal when one says it, but it's nonsense. Like, at its base level Patreon is an extremely effective CMS that's 100% free at the point of service, and a payment processor that takes between 10-12% cut (including the external fees) to do something that, without Patreon, one likely has no actual ability to do anyway.
It's part of the whole weird movement about people not having a healthy and realistic view of how vendor relationships work. They want their vendor to be somewhere between a nanny and an obedient servant. Patreon is a fucking really, really cost effective service.
That deal is unbeatable.
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
Fucking islands, how do they work
Svetlana is from Uzbekistan, and that video was when she was just beginning to speak English on YouTube. That girl has come a *long* way.
While the alt-right isn't going anywhere, individually its figureheads can't seem to stop shooting themselves in the foot. I can't help wondering if it doesn't come down to their investors demanding geometric growth in their shitty behaviour. Like it's not enough to Own The Libs, every day you have to Own The Libs bigger and louder than you did yesterday, until eventually your only options are to bleed out supporters to the next up-and-coming shitbird or explode in a cloud of n-bombs and dietary supplements.
I didn't see that as accusing Patreon of stealing that money, but rather that the way it's worded in the article makes it sound like Patreon is the one paying creators to make content, rather than content creators bringing in supporters which support both the creators and Patreon.
It was my knee jerk reaction too, frankly. Patreon isn't a content creation house paying out to contractors. They act as an aggregator and service operator for, seemingly, a relatively small (but still important) part of the business operation since they don't actually service payment transactions themselves (which is left to services like Paypal) and don't deal with fraudulent donations themselves either (which is left to the content creator to deal with however they can). The article gives the power entirely to Patreon rather than to the content creators, and seemingly most of the credit as well.
As a user of their service I am wary of nearly everything they do when they don't deliver the money they are supposed to several times a year to the point that they recently just started sending out e-mails telling us not to expect it.
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
This will be here until I receive an apology or Weedlordvegeta get any consequences for being a bully
Oh god I fucking lost it when he said "Oh no, where's the cap?"
I can't imagine this is real. But it is funny as hell.
This will be here until I receive an apology or Weedlordvegeta get any consequences for being a bully
PSN:Furlion
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.