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Posts

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    It's sad to see things go from the point where Steam saved Introversion 9 years ago to where we are now.

    I imagine a lot of this has to do with market saturation. Back in 2010 there wasn't a lot available as far as indie titles available on PC. High quality indie titles at low prices moved like hotcakes. Nowadays, there's a plethora of options, and we're getting more and more every day.

    Sure, a part of it is exposure, and that could be solved by curation, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a glut of good indie games in any genre a prospective buyer is interested in. The amount of money gamers have to spend on games isn't expanding as fast as the indie game market is.

    It's hit AAA titles too. Some of the franchises that haven't hit critical mass have noticeable sales gaps with those that have.

    For now a release on the Switch eshop seemed to be taking over the big breakout for some indies but even that will likely fade in time as more titles release there.

    And as always:

    But now we're seeing more attempts at or resurgences of lifestyle games. The MMOish loot shooter space alone is contending with Destiny, Warframe, The Division, and Anthem. And even some Ubisoft games are trying to bring in some of the hooks MMOs use so there's more time being taken up by some of our chosen games.

    I think that the latter point is going to go in a different direction. I think that kind of game is going to suffer a big decline in popularity soon (or even now, really) that will result in big losses for the AAA publishers behind them. Destiny 2 has already proven to be less successful than projected. Anecdotally, I know a number of people who are normally into that kind of game saying they're going to pass on Anthem because they don't have the time. In the same way that there is a finite amount of gamer's money out there, there's a finite amount of gamer's time too.

    We already see some divergences from the traditional patterns in some of those titles. Destiny 2 may have not been as great as expected but that doesn't apply to the other two ones that are out. Part of it I think can be attributed to Warframe and The Division not sending players into a cycle of needing go grind to a higher level due to a new content drop. It's been a lot easier to dip in and out of those games as you have time compared to Destiny's more traditional MMO expansion cycle. Time will tell if The Division 2 sticks to that ease of jumping back in though. A lot of the decisions made regarding content in The Division was born out of necessity due to a few whiffs early on that made many early players lose interest.

    But as i said, we're also seeing some MMO content hooks going into non-MMO games. Things like the Elusive Targets in nu-Hitman echo special events in MMOs. AC: Odyssey has been working on trying to get a weekly challenge thing going but still has been doing things like daily and weekly quests in the interim alongside some post-launch content drops that come as free updates instead of squirreling them all away as DLC. These are generally positive things as they give the consumer more content and value while not requiring the developers slave away to have all the content be ready at launch but it all does eat away more of our gaming time for other games.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    The problem indie games are facing right now is the same damned problem gaming as a whole faced right before the market crash of 1982: too many games, too many development houses, too many absolute shit games crowding out the actual decent ones, and zero quality control. Your Hellblades and your Stardew Valleys are ending up buried under mountains of shitty maze games, cheap porn puzzle games, and Fortnite Knockoff #4581.

    As far as good indie games I recommend...

    - Catlateral Damage
    - Magical Diary: Horse Hall
    - Loren the Amazon Princess
    - Roommates
    - Undertale

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  • Gear GirlGear Girl Registered User regular
    edited February 6
    Speaking of indie games. Chrono.gg has Dark Souls Tres for 12.47 today.

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    AAA games are definitely trending hard in the direction of all trying to be long tail games you keep playing which monopolizes a lot of time.
    Then there are definitely way more very good, pretty good, and mostly good "smaller" games coming out what feels like every day. I put smaller in quotes because Crosscode took me like 40 hours but also looks like it has a core design team of like a dozen people maybe. I have a hard time telling how much of a problem all the shovelware is in terms of preventing people from finding indies that are a good fit for them. I think the lack of spotlight coverage is more of a factor and I don't think Hentai Horse Puzzles 3 is really stealing any of that unless you're just trying to drill down through All New Releases. That method of finding things is no longer viable in the way it once was. But those games don't tend to get propped up on the storefront either.
    There's some combination of publicity being much harder to obtain, trying steal some more mindspace from the average game player focused on AAA, a sharp increase in the volume of quality products, that combined are going to make it real tough to succeed if your game doesn't manage to capture some corner of the internets attention.

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  • JazzJazz irregular Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Here's a few more indie recommendations:

    Dex
    Ladykiller in a Bind (NSFW)
    Neon Drive
    Spintires: Mudrunner
    Superflight

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    AAA games are definitely trending hard in the direction of all trying to be long tail games you keep playing which monopolizes a lot of time.
    Then there are definitely way more very good, pretty good, and mostly good "smaller" games coming out what feels like every day. I put smaller in quotes because Crosscode took me like 40 hours but also looks like it has a core design team of like a dozen people maybe. I have a hard time telling how much of a problem all the shovelware is in terms of preventing people from finding indies that are a good fit for them. I think the lack of spotlight coverage is more of a factor and I don't think Hentai Horse Puzzles 3 is really stealing any of that unless you're just trying to drill down through All New Releases. That method of finding things is no longer viable in the way it once was. But those games don't tend to get propped up on the storefront either.
    There's some combination of publicity being much harder to obtain, trying steal some more mindspace from the average game player focused on AAA, a sharp increase in the volume of quality products, that combined are going to make it real tough to succeed if your game doesn't manage to capture some corner of the internets attention.

    I think the real losers are the pretty good but not great indie games without a built in audience. The really good ones will get good reviews and word of mouth and end up trending due to friend activity highlighting them. The rest that actually need the discovery features to even get noticed are on much more precarious ground.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I think part of the problem is the industry is basically operating a 'all-or-nothing' efficiency. It isn't really allowing niches to form and letting them be filled as necessary. Instead, it's just chasing after the latest must have experience. And that tends to settle on consumers in various ways. Mainly disparaging whatever doesn't fullfil a desired niche as being worthless in some way.

    Kalnaur
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    Finished Shadow Warrior.

    It's unexpected to me that (serious end game spoilers ahead)
    I would actually cry when Ameonna held the body of Hoji as he vanished into nothing.
    That game was more fun than it had any right to be.

    It was unexpectedly more heartfelt towards the end.

    The relatively limited budget actually helped a bit in some respects.
    For me it was when Wang sat with Ameonna without saying a word after a game of being a hyperkinetic loudmouth, just patiently waiting to see if she needed anything while she mourned. It was a lot more touching than any voiced cutscene would be.

    Sadly the sequel pisses all over the ending of the first game by
    Turning Ameonna into a sultry villain.

  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited February 6
    I have two good indie games to give away for free!
    They're both definitely a bit niche. So maybe take a look and see if they're something you'd be interested in first.

    Cultist Simulator is a game where you manage a series of cards and timers, that works to build a strange story that figuring out the mechanics of is a big chunk of the fun.
    It's got its own thread still I believe. It's pretty unique.

    Rock of Ages 2 is a game where you and an opponent control a big boulder. Your goal is to steer your boulder through a series of obstacles trying to keep it in th ebest condition you can and reach the enemy's gate as quickly as possible, smash into it, and then get ready to do it again as a new boulder is chiseled together for you. While you're waiting for your boulder to be ready, you're hastily setting up traps and obstacles along the path to your own gate to try and slow and damage your opponent's boulder.
    Then the horn sounds and you're off rolling again trying to get through the now most likely even thicker defenses. Whoever smashes down the opponent's gate first squishes their enemy.
    This is all set to some fun mashups of classical tunes anddifferent period/movement specific art styles. It's fun. It can be played vs other people but there's a campaign of unlocks against a series of computer controlled opponents.

    Shoot me a pm if you're interested in having one of those and I'll random a winner if I get more than one request for the same game around like 4pm pacific time.

    akajaybay on
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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Here's a few more indie recommendations:

    Dex
    Ladykiller in a Bind (NSFW)
    Neon Drive
    Spintires: Mudrunner
    Superflight

    I see you're a man of taste. :3

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    I think part of the problem is the industry is basically operating a 'all-or-nothing' efficiency. It isn't really allowing niches to form and letting them be filled as necessary. Instead, it's just chasing after the latest must have experience. And that tends to settle on consumers in various ways. Mainly disparaging whatever doesn't fullfil a desired niche as being worthless in some way.

    That's generally been an AAA issue though. We still see indies trying out different niches and only go towards chasing a more trendy niche when they're in dire straits and in danger of folding (parody games being a bit of an exception.) Even the more mid-tier developers still do things differently from the best selling franchises. Remember that battle royale games came from something that wasn't AAA studios producing traditional best sellers. As did MOBAs.

    The really big studios definitely are getting into situations where every big release has to be a big seller and play it somewhat safely due to how much money has been sunk and how many jobs depend on those sales though even they're trying to at least invest some money into smaller games that can be more niche, e.g. Ubisoft and Child of Light or EA publishing some indie developer works.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited February 6
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    Finished Shadow Warrior.

    It's unexpected to me that (serious end game spoilers ahead)
    I would actually cry when Ameonna held the body of Hoji as he vanished into nothing.
    That game was more fun than it had any right to be.

    It was unexpectedly more heartfelt towards the end.

    The relatively limited budget actually helped a bit in some respects.
    For me it was when Wang sat with Ameonna without saying a word after a game of being a hyperkinetic loudmouth, just patiently waiting to see if she needed anything while she mourned. It was a lot more touching than any voiced cutscene would be.

    Sadly the sequel pisses all over the ending of the first game by
    Turning Ameonna into a sultry villain.

    Yeah,
    I was disappointed at the huge change to character.

    It's one factor that has slowed my return to the game but that's really most due to Warframe fulfilling my balls-to-the-wall shooting and stabbing needs.

    Steel Angel on
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    I think part of the problem is the industry is basically operating a 'all-or-nothing' efficiency. It isn't really allowing niches to form and letting them be filled as necessary. Instead, it's just chasing after the latest must have experience. And that tends to settle on consumers in various ways. Mainly disparaging whatever doesn't fullfil a desired niche as being worthless in some way.

    That's generally been an AAA issue though. We still see indies trying out different niches and only go towards chasing a more trendy niche when they're in dire straits and in danger of folding (parody games being a bit of an exception.) Even the more mid-tier developers still do things differently from the best selling franchises. Remember that battle royale games came from something that wasn't AAA studios producing traditional best sellers. As did MOBAs.

    The really big studios definitely are getting into situations where every big release has to be a big seller and play it somewhat safely due to how much money has been sunk and how many jobs depend on those sales though even they're trying to at least invest some money into smaller games that can be more niche, e.g. Ubisoft and Child of Light or EA publishing some indie developer works.

    yeah I was going to say that's actually probably one of indies biggest advantages at the moment, that AAA can tends to be focused on the latest big trends in player count and $$$. Meanwhile indie games can fulfill all kinds of specialty niche interests that go underserved. The pool of good turn based tactical combat games went from like 2 to 20 in no time. There was a hole there for people who wanted more x-com like games, and now there's probably a glut of them. The ones in the pretty good but not great segment are probably going to have a tough time. Like I enjoyed Warhammer Mechanicus, but it doesn't really compete against stuff like Battletech or Mutant Year Zero even though it does some things of its own in a fun unique way. There just might not be quite enough of an appetite for people to get through all those meals.

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited February 6
    One recent example would be Wargroove. It's another entry into the strategy market, but it fills an even more particular niche. People who are fond of and miss Advance Wars and would like another one of those.
    It sounds like they made a pretty good modern day equivalent of an Advance Wars game and it's doing pretty well for itself. People who were waiting for a game like that have talked it up, so people who don't have that history also hear about it and see it, and try it out. Plus it got that Switch release. It'llprobably be an all around indie success. If there happen to be like 3 other Advance Wars style games in the pipeline, they might have a hard time finding an audience.

    The niche is good but there's also only so much room in the cave. There's also a bunch of indie games that don't even fit into easily defined categories, and those can be even tougher to find their audiences.
    I LOVE Return of the Obra Dinn and I hope it's doing well, but I have to wonder if it's reaching many of the people that would really enjoy it.
    Something like Cultist Simulator, who knows who you sell that to. It's pretty neat. But I can understand why it'd be a huge turnoff to some people, it doesn't have an easy shorthand of It's like X but Y.
    Sunless Sea/Skies are probably also tough ones, but I love that they exist. It's what I love about games right now. The range of styles, mechanics, and ideas has never been wider and it's due to the tools and distribution having reached a point that games like these can get made by small teams and succeed. Hopefully it stays that way, but the expansion has been so rapid it's going to be tough. Unfortunately just having your game be real good is not enough on its own, and the marketplace and the games media is probably not going to highlight everything that deserves to be.

    akajaybay on
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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Boy this last Astroneer patch was a doozy and changed a ton.

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    Ianator
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Boy this last Astroneer patch was a doozy and changed a ton.

    Well I bought it so if it isn't good I'm blaming you.

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Boy this last Astroneer patch was a doozy and changed a ton.

    Well I bought it so if it isn't good I'm blaming you.

    It's an improvement. The landscape looks much more like an actual planet now.

    Also I found and activated a giant alien thing that I don't know what it does.

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    Karoz
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    Is Astroneer like Subnautica in that you're kind of progresssing through a story with a string of goals? Or a bit more freeform with a bit of story in the mix, like No Mans Sky?

  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    Is Astroneer like Subnautica in that you're kind of progresssing through a story with a string of goals? Or a bit more freeform with a bit of story in the mix, like No Mans Sky?

    Unless patches since August have totally overhauled the entire experience, it's more the latter than the former.

    But Astroneer is still really good.

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    KarozDrovek
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    Is Astroneer like Subnautica in that you're kind of progresssing through a story with a string of goals? Or a bit more freeform with a bit of story in the mix, like No Mans Sky?

    TBH it's hard for me to personally say because I have been avoiding it mostly until release, but from what I can tell, it is the latter. Much more freeform, but there does now seem to be some sort of overarching goal or at the least, larger mystery, with these alien things. They weren't around before.

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Here's a trailer, although its heavily multiplayer focused here.

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  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    One recent example would be Wargroove. It's another entry into the strategy market, but it fills an even more particular niche. People who are fond of and miss Advance Wars and would like another one of those.
    It sounds like they made a pretty good modern day equivalent of an Advance Wars game and it's doing pretty well for itself. People who were waiting for a game like that have talked it up, so people who don't have that history also hear about it and see it, and try it out. Plus it got that Switch release. It'llprobably be an all around indie success. If there happen to be like 3 other Advance Wars style games in the pipeline, they might have a hard time finding an audience.

    The niche is good but there's also only so much room in the cave. There's also a bunch of indie games that don't even fit into easily defined categories, and those can be even tougher to find their audiences.
    I LOVE Return of the Obra Dinn and I hope it's doing well, but I have to wonder if it's reaching many of the people that would really enjoy it.
    Something like Cultist Simulator, who knows who you sell that to. It's pretty neat. But I can understand why it'd be a huge turnoff to some people, it doesn't have an easy shorthand of It's like X but Y.
    Sunless Sea/Skies are probably also tough ones, but I love that they exist. It's what I love about games right now. The range of styles, mechanics, and ideas has never been wider and it's due to the tools and distribution having reached a point that games like these can get made by small teams and succeed. Hopefully it stays that way, but the expansion has been so rapid it's going to be tough. Unfortunately just having your game be real good is not enough on its own, and the marketplace and the games media is probably not going to highlight everything that deserves to be.

    That is true, there are still niches out there for indie devs to fit themselves into (Stardew was a good example). I feel like indie devs have a tendency to dogpile though (look at all the Stardew/Harvest Moon derivative games that have came out in Stardew's wake).

    They also have a tendency to beat dead horses. There are so many soulslike roglites that I could pave my driveway with them.

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Huh.

    Have no idea why but been ignoring Crashlands forever but it looks like my kind of game. Probably going to be my sole haul from this sale.

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    akajaybay wrote: »
    One recent example would be Wargroove. It's another entry into the strategy market, but it fills an even more particular niche. People who are fond of and miss Advance Wars and would like another one of those.
    It sounds like they made a pretty good modern day equivalent of an Advance Wars game and it's doing pretty well for itself. People who were waiting for a game like that have talked it up, so people who don't have that history also hear about it and see it, and try it out. Plus it got that Switch release. It'llprobably be an all around indie success. If there happen to be like 3 other Advance Wars style games in the pipeline, they might have a hard time finding an audience.

    The niche is good but there's also only so much room in the cave. There's also a bunch of indie games that don't even fit into easily defined categories, and those can be even tougher to find their audiences.
    I LOVE Return of the Obra Dinn and I hope it's doing well, but I have to wonder if it's reaching many of the people that would really enjoy it.
    Something like Cultist Simulator, who knows who you sell that to. It's pretty neat. But I can understand why it'd be a huge turnoff to some people, it doesn't have an easy shorthand of It's like X but Y.
    Sunless Sea/Skies are probably also tough ones, but I love that they exist. It's what I love about games right now. The range of styles, mechanics, and ideas has never been wider and it's due to the tools and distribution having reached a point that games like these can get made by small teams and succeed. Hopefully it stays that way, but the expansion has been so rapid it's going to be tough. Unfortunately just having your game be real good is not enough on its own, and the marketplace and the games media is probably not going to highlight everything that deserves to be.

    That is true, there are still niches out there for indie devs to fit themselves into (Stardew was a good example). I feel like indie devs have a tendency to dogpile though (look at all the Stardew/Harvest Moon derivative games that have came out in Stardew's wake).

    They also have a tendency to beat dead horses. There are so many soulslike roglites that I could pave my driveway with them.

    The dogpiling of indie games is kind of a different thing. It takes a long time for an indie game to come out. In the span of that wait it's not unheard of for multiple devs to identify a niche that hasn't been touched in a while in parallel. Gleaner Heights started development before Stardew Valley came out but released after so comparisons were inevitable.

    While I'd argue that there aren't actually many soulslikes that are also trying to be roguelites (souls games do an atmosphere and lore hints that just isn't as possible with random generation), part of why roguelite mechanics are popular with indie devs is a resource thing. It's a lot easier for a small developer to procedurally generate maps and levels than it is to create a ton of maps and levels by hand.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    So Dragon's Dogma is pretty cheap right now and I've wanted to try that game for quite a while now, but I'm also trying to play a bunch of other games right that I barely have time so I really can't afford another, time-wise, so I guess I could buy it and then leave it in my library unplayed, but I don't like to do that, and why am I posting here anyway I have games to play.

    I never played the expansion but yeah, it's not the sort of game you play if you're trying to finish other games. It's on my short list of games I quit because it didn't respect my time at all.

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    I would have loved to let some of the more reputable Indie studios to take a turn on general Star Wars universe stuff. Instead, we have EA driving dump trucks full of gold bars to Florida.

    For example, some sort of version of Steam World Dig in a Star Wars wrapper would be fun and interesting. Or a SW version of Slay The Spire/Darkest Dungeon.

    JazzCorsini
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    TheStig wrote: »
    So Dragon's Dogma is pretty cheap right now and I've wanted to try that game for quite a while now, but I'm also trying to play a bunch of other games right that I barely have time so I really can't afford another, time-wise, so I guess I could buy it and then leave it in my library unplayed, but I don't like to do that, and why am I posting here anyway I have games to play.

    I never played the expansion but yeah, it's not the sort of game you play if you're trying to finish other games. It's on my short list of games I quit because it didn't respect my time at all.

    The expanded version gave you portable travel point stones pretty early on. They're not weightless, but leaving one at Gran Soren and just toting one with you to dump wherever you need to retreat from cuts down a lot on travel time.

    It's still a very long game.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Star Wars should absolutely be in the same situation as Marvel, where Disney just licneses it out to people with pitches they like, instead of given EA a blanket and exclusive use of it.

    EA has had this deal since May of 2013 and they've released a total of TWO non-mobile games in the past five and a half years. One of which was a lackluster, full priced MP only shooter, and the other was the sequel that did lootboxes so egregiously that it managed to make national headlines. Meanwhile they have a game from Respawn (which is hopefully good) and a game coming on the heals of a twice canceled project.

    I'd be really suspect if Disney is actually happy with EA, and just didn't want to go through the mess of extracating themselves from that deal four years early.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    It's sad to see things go from the point where Steam saved Introversion 9 years ago to where we are now.

    I imagine a lot of this has to do with market saturation. Back in 2010 there wasn't a lot available as far as indie titles available on PC. High quality indie titles at low prices moved like hotcakes. Nowadays, there's a plethora of options, and we're getting more and more every day.

    Sure, a part of it is exposure, and that could be solved by curation, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a glut of good indie games in any genre a prospective buyer is interested in. The amount of money gamers have to spend on games isn't expanding as fast as the indie game market is.

    It's hit AAA titles too. Some of the franchises that haven't hit critical mass have noticeable sales gaps with those that have.

    For now a release on the Switch eshop seemed to be taking over the big breakout for some indies but even that will likely fade in time as more titles release there.

    And as always:

    But now we're seeing more attempts at or resurgences of lifestyle games. The MMOish loot shooter space alone is contending with Destiny, Warframe, The Division, and Anthem. And even some Ubisoft games are trying to bring in some of the hooks MMOs use so there's more time being taken up by some of our chosen games.

    I think that the latter point is going to go in a different direction. I think that kind of game is going to suffer a big decline in popularity soon (or even now, really) that will result in big losses for the AAA publishers behind them. Destiny 2 has already proven to be less successful than projected. Anecdotally, I know a number of people who are normally into that kind of game saying they're going to pass on Anthem because they don't have the time. In the same way that there is a finite amount of gamer's money out there, there's a finite amount of gamer's time too.

    We already see some divergences from the traditional patterns in some of those titles. Destiny 2 may have not been as great as expected but that doesn't apply to the other two ones that are out. Part of it I think can be attributed to Warframe and The Division not sending players into a cycle of needing go grind to a higher level due to a new content drop. It's been a lot easier to dip in and out of those games as you have time compared to Destiny's more traditional MMO expansion cycle. Time will tell if The Division 2 sticks to that ease of jumping back in though. A lot of the decisions made regarding content in The Division was born out of necessity due to a few whiffs early on that made many early players lose interest.

    But as i said, we're also seeing some MMO content hooks going into non-MMO games. Things like the Elusive Targets in nu-Hitman echo special events in MMOs. AC: Odyssey has been working on trying to get a weekly challenge thing going but still has been doing things like daily and weekly quests in the interim alongside some post-launch content drops that come as free updates instead of squirreling them all away as DLC. These are generally positive things as they give the consumer more content and value while not requiring the developers slave away to have all the content be ready at launch but it all does eat away more of our gaming time for other games.

    Yeah, part of the reason I never even touched Destiny 2 was that all the DLCs in 1 continually wiped out any progress you previously made, making all your rare gear obsolete in the face of higher level whites. Whereas a game like Warframe or MWO, you can come back months or even years later and even though there's probably powercreep and nerfs, you can still play perfectly fine.

    Though there's always the chance that the games go under in the meantime (RIP Marvel Heroes)

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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    SteevL wrote: »
    It's sad to see things go from the point where Steam saved Introversion 9 years ago to where we are now.

    I imagine a lot of this has to do with market saturation. Back in 2010 there wasn't a lot available as far as indie titles available on PC. High quality indie titles at low prices moved like hotcakes. Nowadays, there's a plethora of options, and we're getting more and more every day.

    Sure, a part of it is exposure, and that could be solved by curation, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a glut of good indie games in any genre a prospective buyer is interested in. The amount of money gamers have to spend on games isn't expanding as fast as the indie game market is.

    It's hit AAA titles too. Some of the franchises that haven't hit critical mass have noticeable sales gaps with those that have.

    For now a release on the Switch eshop seemed to be taking over the big breakout for some indies but even that will likely fade in time as more titles release there.

    And as always:

    But now we're seeing more attempts at or resurgences of lifestyle games. The MMOish loot shooter space alone is contending with Destiny, Warframe, The Division, and Anthem. And even some Ubisoft games are trying to bring in some of the hooks MMOs use so there's more time being taken up by some of our chosen games.

    I think that the latter point is going to go in a different direction. I think that kind of game is going to suffer a big decline in popularity soon (or even now, really) that will result in big losses for the AAA publishers behind them. Destiny 2 has already proven to be less successful than projected. Anecdotally, I know a number of people who are normally into that kind of game saying they're going to pass on Anthem because they don't have the time. In the same way that there is a finite amount of gamer's money out there, there's a finite amount of gamer's time too.

    We already see some divergences from the traditional patterns in some of those titles. Destiny 2 may have not been as great as expected but that doesn't apply to the other two ones that are out. Part of it I think can be attributed to Warframe and The Division not sending players into a cycle of needing go grind to a higher level due to a new content drop. It's been a lot easier to dip in and out of those games as you have time compared to Destiny's more traditional MMO expansion cycle. Time will tell if The Division 2 sticks to that ease of jumping back in though. A lot of the decisions made regarding content in The Division was born out of necessity due to a few whiffs early on that made many early players lose interest.

    But as i said, we're also seeing some MMO content hooks going into non-MMO games. Things like the Elusive Targets in nu-Hitman echo special events in MMOs. AC: Odyssey has been working on trying to get a weekly challenge thing going but still has been doing things like daily and weekly quests in the interim alongside some post-launch content drops that come as free updates instead of squirreling them all away as DLC. These are generally positive things as they give the consumer more content and value while not requiring the developers slave away to have all the content be ready at launch but it all does eat away more of our gaming time for other games.

    Yeah, part of the reason I never even touched Destiny 2 was that all the DLCs in 1 continually wiped out any progress you previously made, making all your rare gear obsolete in the face of higher level whites. Whereas a game like Warframe or MWO, you can come back months or even years later and even though there's probably powercreep and nerfs, you can still play perfectly fine.

    Though there's always the chance that the games go under in the meantime (RIP Marvel Heroes)

    Destiny 2 at least made your old gear still relevant by letting you feed higher level junk to boost the levels of your old stuff. But it's still a lot of time hitting all those slots to raise your light level.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I would have loved to let some of the more reputable Indie studios to take a turn on general Star Wars universe stuff. Instead, we have EA driving dump trucks full of gold bars to Florida.

    For example, some sort of version of Steam World Dig in a Star Wars wrapper would be fun and interesting. Or a SW version of Slay The Spire/Darkest Dungeon.

    Florida? Who is in Florida?

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  • IanatorIanator Delightfully mediocre! Registered User regular
    So ASTRONEER has been rad and all but I'm having big problems with things falling through terrain. It's really taking me out of the experience when I build a bridge across my ravine only to turn around and find my cute little tractor train has fallen into an invisible physics pit trap, barely hanging on by the rear trailers' grip on reality.

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    Looks like Rock of Ages 2 may need a little more selling to find a home.

  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Betsuni wrote: »
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I would have loved to let some of the more reputable Indie studios to take a turn on general Star Wars universe stuff. Instead, we have EA driving dump trucks full of gold bars to Florida.

    For example, some sort of version of Steam World Dig in a Star Wars wrapper would be fun and interesting. Or a SW version of Slay The Spire/Darkest Dungeon.

    Florida? Who is in Florida?

    My headcanon tells me Disney HQ is in Orlando. Ideally inside Cinderella's castle.

  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Disney is run from the moon by Walt's frozen head.

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  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I would have loved to let some of the more reputable Indie studios to take a turn on general Star Wars universe stuff. Instead, we have EA driving dump trucks full of gold bars to Florida.

    For example, some sort of version of Steam World Dig in a Star Wars wrapper would be fun and interesting. Or a SW version of Slay The Spire/Darkest Dungeon.

    Florida? Who is in Florida?

    My headcanon tells me Disney HQ is in Orlando. Ideally inside Cinderella's castle.

    Ohhhhh... Pfft we all know Walt's brain is located in Sleeping Beauty's Castle in Anaheim. Controlling the world forever.

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Well, I figured out what the big alien structures do in Astroneer.
    They are teleporters. As you unlock them, you can unlock more places to go.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Hey it's me, your old pal Movie Sonic - let me in. LEMME IN. Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Well, I figured out what the big alien structures do in Astroneer.
    They are teleporters. As you unlock them, you can unlock more places to go.

    No Astroneer's Sky?

    Kalnaur
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Wait, can you not kill anything in Astroneer?

    But...my bloodlust. :(

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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Wait, can you not kill anything in Astroneer?

    But...my bloodlust. :(

    So far there are only plants. Although some of them can hurt you.

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    Ianator
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