I don't know about undercosted, those are just examples that have lots of wounds and lots of shots for a points value reasonably corresponding to taking a horde of special weapons.
I mean, Armigers are good and Dreadnoughts are bad for the same reason, just give elite units more defenses and more shots and they can in theory be good.
the big "thing" in 8th is that good units are almost always specialized to some end
it's why you're never gonna see knight wardens, but gallants and crusaders are everywhere
it's why custodes would rather take a smash captain or castellan than a land raider, and why loyalists would rather take devastators than dreds
also warglaves are awful, helverins are decent to have to cap points and clear cheap units but aren't that amazing
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I have a box of 10 Reivers to add to my Space Wolves but I'm not sure how I should build them.
Any advice on what to consider when equipping them? The bolt carbine seems alright but it seems like it is almost better to run all combat knives since I get 4 attacks in close combat. Also looks like the pack leader can equip a carbine, combat knife, and heavy bolt pistol.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Go 50/50 or play a few games with all bolter all pistol and knife and a mix to see what works for you. My brother has 15 reivers so 5 knives 5 bolters and a mix for the others but he has been running that blood claw list in Vig def
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
So I think I'm gonna setup all my Reivers with the heavy bolt pistol and combat knife. It just feels a lot better than the carbine option.
Also, my intercessors are sitting with auto bolt rifles right now. How likely is it that I'll get a lot of nonsense for calling them just bolt rifles? I kind of like the bolt rifles more with the new bolter rule but I'm not gonna buy another 20 intercessors to model that.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I have a box of 10 Reivers to add to my Space Wolves but I'm not sure how I should build them.
Any advice on what to consider when equipping them? The bolt carbine seems alright but it seems like it is almost better to run all combat knives since I get 4 attacks in close combat. Also looks like the pack leader can equip a carbine, combat knife, and heavy bolt pistol.
Couple things to think about here: the way the GeeDubs page says to use them is as a CC support unit: they don't have any heavy weaponry outside of the single grenade you throw, and you more often than not will want to throw a Shock Grenade into a unit that you may try to charge with other units. That won't happen until turn 3 however if you're using their deep strike ability (deploying on turn 2 and at 9" or greater from enemy troops). Looking at that initial deployment where you're unlikely to get the charge off (27% chance of rolling 9" or higher), the only thing you can count on are your opening shots where the carbine is better in all cases (except against a 2+ save where it is equal to heavy pistols). On subsequent rounds you'll have to see if even 40 attacks at 4S 0AP 1D will be able to take down the targets you're using them to fight. You can expect to get 4.44 kills against MEQs with those attacks, + another 1.5 from shooting your heavy pistols prior to the charge for 5.94 total. On the other hand with only 30 attacks and carbines (factoring in 1 less shooter for the shock grenade) you'd still get 5.3 kills, and only start seeing gains on subsequent rounds stuck in combat.
Go 50/50 or play a few games with all bolter all pistol and knife and a mix to see what works for you. My brother has 15 reivers so 5 knives 5 bolters and a mix for the others but he has been running that blood claw list in Vig def
Honestly this is the proper advice right here. Plus you can combat squad them and use their shock grenades and terror troop special abilities twice each round. To be honest I'm still having trouble figuring out how to properly use them, especially in an all Primaris army. I think they have their place in armies that have a few competent CC squads, for example if I were to use them to support Deathwing Termies or Knights, but I don't consider them a hard CC unit on their own.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Crunching together a 2k list with this fine new GSC codex, and I am able to put so much more cool stuff in now. And there’s multiple ridiculous units that will mess things up. Roided up Patriarchs, army-clearing flamer Metamorphs, double attacking 4+ fnp Aberrants, it’s like a smorgasbord of enraged mutant homeless people.
I bought a few of the blind boxes and out of three, only one has a pose I can't just assemble off sprue. Not a huge fan.
What is this I don't even.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
So, going through the genecult codex I’m looking at how the characters interact with each other and their rules and theres some really nice interactions there.
Take the Nexos, for example: he has the ability to generate a command point on a 6+ whenever you or your opponent spend one. OK, great, neat even. Now realise that, with Cult Ambush being the Big New Rule and the way the Cult Stratagems are almost all about messing with your own deployment, you can potentially get a bunch of extra distractions, disappearances, and explosions very early. But it isn’t just the Nexos working his master plan to make everything happen; if you have a Primus (the field general of the Cult) you get +1 to the roll for recycling your CPs. Even better, if you have a Clamavus (propaganda and infowar specialist) you get +1 to the roll for enemy CPs.
So, basically if you build a proper command section with a field commander, intel analyst, and comms specialist, you get to completely outmanoeuvre and bamboozle the enemy for cheap or even free.
This isn’t even the Clamavus’ actual job though, just a side effect of them being on the table with a Nexos; they have a 6” bubble of +1 to Ld tests, advances, and charges, a 12” no-teleport zone, and a 6” pain bubble for enemy units. If you’re willing to forego the presence of the Patriarch (which is a wrench, since he’s a beatstick capable of blitzing whole elite units), there’s even a Warlord Trait to boost all of those by 3”.
Or you could give that to your Magus to extend their bubble of bonus deny the witch rolls.
Basically there’s a lot of awesome in the HQ and elites section here and I want it all. :twisted:
I have a box of 10 Reivers to add to my Space Wolves but I'm not sure how I should build them.
Any advice on what to consider when equipping them? The bolt carbine seems alright but it seems like it is almost better to run all combat knives since I get 4 attacks in close combat. Also looks like the pack leader can equip a carbine, combat knife, and heavy bolt pistol.
Couple things to think about here: the way the GeeDubs page says to use them is as a CC support unit: they don't have any heavy weaponry outside of the single grenade you throw, and you more often than not will want to throw a Shock Grenade into a unit that you may try to charge with other units. That won't happen until turn 3 however if you're using their deep strike ability (deploying on turn 2 and at 9" or greater from enemy troops). Looking at that initial deployment where you're unlikely to get the charge off (27% chance of rolling 9" or higher), the only thing you can count on are your opening shots where the carbine is better in all cases (except against a 2+ save where it is equal to heavy pistols). On subsequent rounds you'll have to see if even 40 attacks at 4S 0AP 1D will be able to take down the targets you're using them to fight. You can expect to get 4.44 kills against MEQs with those attacks, + another 1.5 from shooting your heavy pistols prior to the charge for 5.94 total. On the other hand with only 30 attacks and carbines (factoring in 1 less shooter for the shock grenade) you'd still get 5.3 kills, and only start seeing gains on subsequent rounds stuck in combat.
Go 50/50 or play a few games with all bolter all pistol and knife and a mix to see what works for you. My brother has 15 reivers so 5 knives 5 bolters and a mix for the others but he has been running that blood claw list in Vig def
Honestly this is the proper advice right here. Plus you can combat squad them and use their shock grenades and terror troop special abilities twice each round. To be honest I'm still having trouble figuring out how to properly use them, especially in an all Primaris army. I think they have their place in armies that have a few competent CC squads, for example if I were to use them to support Deathwing Termies or Knights, but I don't consider them a hard CC unit on their own.
I can't split them in the unit like that though. I'd have to run two separate 5 man squads of Reivers to go 50/50 with them.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I have a box of 10 Reivers to add to my Space Wolves but I'm not sure how I should build them.
Any advice on what to consider when equipping them? The bolt carbine seems alright but it seems like it is almost better to run all combat knives since I get 4 attacks in close combat. Also looks like the pack leader can equip a carbine, combat knife, and heavy bolt pistol.
Couple things to think about here: the way the GeeDubs page says to use them is as a CC support unit: they don't have any heavy weaponry outside of the single grenade you throw, and you more often than not will want to throw a Shock Grenade into a unit that you may try to charge with other units. That won't happen until turn 3 however if you're using their deep strike ability (deploying on turn 2 and at 9" or greater from enemy troops). Looking at that initial deployment where you're unlikely to get the charge off (27% chance of rolling 9" or higher), the only thing you can count on are your opening shots where the carbine is better in all cases (except against a 2+ save where it is equal to heavy pistols). On subsequent rounds you'll have to see if even 40 attacks at 4S 0AP 1D will be able to take down the targets you're using them to fight. You can expect to get 4.44 kills against MEQs with those attacks, + another 1.5 from shooting your heavy pistols prior to the charge for 5.94 total. On the other hand with only 30 attacks and carbines (factoring in 1 less shooter for the shock grenade) you'd still get 5.3 kills, and only start seeing gains on subsequent rounds stuck in combat.
Go 50/50 or play a few games with all bolter all pistol and knife and a mix to see what works for you. My brother has 15 reivers so 5 knives 5 bolters and a mix for the others but he has been running that blood claw list in Vig def
Honestly this is the proper advice right here. Plus you can combat squad them and use their shock grenades and terror troop special abilities twice each round. To be honest I'm still having trouble figuring out how to properly use them, especially in an all Primaris army. I think they have their place in armies that have a few competent CC squads, for example if I were to use them to support Deathwing Termies or Knights, but I don't consider them a hard CC unit on their own.
I can't split them in the unit like that though. I'd have to run two separate 5 man squads of Reivers to go 50/50 with them.
Between tooth n claw the kill team reivers and the xmas deal my brother ended up with 20 he said so 5 of them are bolter 5 are the pistol and knife the other 10 are random to mix it up
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I have a box of 10 Reivers to add to my Space Wolves but I'm not sure how I should build them.
Any advice on what to consider when equipping them? The bolt carbine seems alright but it seems like it is almost better to run all combat knives since I get 4 attacks in close combat. Also looks like the pack leader can equip a carbine, combat knife, and heavy bolt pistol.
Couple things to think about here: the way the GeeDubs page says to use them is as a CC support unit: they don't have any heavy weaponry outside of the single grenade you throw, and you more often than not will want to throw a Shock Grenade into a unit that you may try to charge with other units. That won't happen until turn 3 however if you're using their deep strike ability (deploying on turn 2 and at 9" or greater from enemy troops). Looking at that initial deployment where you're unlikely to get the charge off (27% chance of rolling 9" or higher), the only thing you can count on are your opening shots where the carbine is better in all cases (except against a 2+ save where it is equal to heavy pistols). On subsequent rounds you'll have to see if even 40 attacks at 4S 0AP 1D will be able to take down the targets you're using them to fight. You can expect to get 4.44 kills against MEQs with those attacks, + another 1.5 from shooting your heavy pistols prior to the charge for 5.94 total. On the other hand with only 30 attacks and carbines (factoring in 1 less shooter for the shock grenade) you'd still get 5.3 kills, and only start seeing gains on subsequent rounds stuck in combat.
Go 50/50 or play a few games with all bolter all pistol and knife and a mix to see what works for you. My brother has 15 reivers so 5 knives 5 bolters and a mix for the others but he has been running that blood claw list in Vig def
Honestly this is the proper advice right here. Plus you can combat squad them and use their shock grenades and terror troop special abilities twice each round. To be honest I'm still having trouble figuring out how to properly use them, especially in an all Primaris army. I think they have their place in armies that have a few competent CC squads, for example if I were to use them to support Deathwing Termies or Knights, but I don't consider them a hard CC unit on their own.
I can't split them in the unit like that though. I'd have to run two separate 5 man squads of Reivers to go 50/50 with them.
Between tooth n claw the kill team reivers and the xmas deal my brother ended up with 20 he said so 5 of them are bolter 5 are the pistol and knife the other 10 are random to mix it up
The problem is I only have 10 and I cannot run 10 in one squad and mix the weapons up. It is either take the carbine and heavy bolt pistol or take the combat knife and heavy bolt pistol on all of them. In order for me to run 5 as carbine and 5 as combat knife I'd have to run two separate squads of 5 Reivers and that takes up two Elite slots in my Space Wolves army.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
And if you can’t decide which cool character should get a cool warlord trait, spend a CP and give it to three of them.
Only problem with that is that it only works for the Patriarch, Primus, and Magus, no other characters can be elevated that way, and for Matched Play the Patriarch must be the Warlord if you have one. It’s an … interesting strategic choice that a lot of armies don’t have to make (yes I’m looking at you, Imperial Knights).
And if you can’t decide which cool character should get a cool warlord trait, spend a CP and give it to three of them.
Only problem with that is that it only works for the Patriarch, Primus, and Magus, no other characters can be elevated that way, and for Matched Play the Patriarch must be the Warlord if you have one. It’s an … interesting strategic choice that a lot of armies don’t have to make (yes I’m looking at you, Imperial Knights).
knights have to pay 1 or 3 cp for warlord traits
also itc rules make it so you have to take your warlord from your highest cost faction, so no more kurovs+grand strategist
And if you can’t decide which cool character should get a cool warlord trait, spend a CP and give it to three of them.
Only problem with that is that it only works for the Patriarch, Primus, and Magus, no other characters can be elevated that way, and for Matched Play the Patriarch must be the Warlord if you have one. It’s an … interesting strategic choice that a lot of armies don’t have to make (yes I’m looking at you, Imperial Knights).
knights have to pay 1 or 3 cp for warlord traits
also itc rules make it so you have to take your warlord from your highest cost faction, so no more kurovs+grand strategist
The last isn't as broken since you get 1 cp per battle round, so if you roll well that is 5 cp a game now.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
And if you can’t decide which cool character should get a cool warlord trait, spend a CP and give it to three of them.
Only problem with that is that it only works for the Patriarch, Primus, and Magus, no other characters can be elevated that way, and for Matched Play the Patriarch must be the Warlord if you have one. It’s an … interesting strategic choice that a lot of armies don’t have to make (yes I’m looking at you, Imperial Knights).
knights have to pay 1 or 3 cp for warlord traits
also itc rules make it so you have to take your warlord from your highest cost faction, so no more kurovs+grand strategist
Yes, just like everyone else, however, the restrictions on who can be those extra ‘warlords’ are much less onerous. Imagine if you could only use that Stratagem if your ‘real’ Warlord was a Dominus and one of the chosen extras had to be a Preceptor. That’s what I meant about strategic choice, not whether or not it costs CP.
Also if anyone is curious of the current meta, top 9 at the LVO aka those undefeated so far.
1. Astra Militarium
2. Ynnari
3. Ad Mech w/ loyal 32 and Knight Castellan
4. Astra Militarium
5. Ynnari
6. Ta'u
7. Astra Militarium w/knights
8. Adeptus Astartes-RG gunline w/ no loyal 32 and two repulsors+3 preds but does have a BA smash captain
9. Chaos Daemon soup
Basically its guard+knight+special seasoning for half of them. Then Ynnari. With a couple of outliers.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Someone in one of the Space Wolves facebook pages showed me a picture of his hellfrost pistol conversion and I was able to make it for my own Iron Priest pretty quick.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Also if anyone is curious of the current meta, top 9 at the LVO aka those undefeated so far.
1. Astra Militarium
2. Ynnari
3. Ad Mech w/ loyal 32 and Knight Castellan
4. Astra Militarium
5. Ynnari
6. Ta'u
7. Astra Militarium w/knights
8. Adeptus Astartes-RG gunline w/ no loyal 32 and two repulsors+3 preds but does have a BA smash captain
9. Chaos Daemon soup
Basically its guard+knight+special seasoning for half of them. Then Ynnari. With a couple of outliers.
Not really a surprise to be honest. It's a shame that 2018's CA didn't really touch either the Imperial Doom list or Ynnari.
I'm hoping that in future GW figures out a workaround for the 8 month lead-up printing time. At the moment it doesn't really give them any ability to actually respond to the current meta.
I mean, we all knew "oh, by not touching Knights or Eldar but reducing everyone else's point costs a little they've effectively nerfed those lists" was bullshit.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
All 4 AM list have knights. 3 of them are Castellans the last one has a Cerastus.
The big thing is that AM+Knights are half of the top 8 and weren't touched in CA18, some were buffed with point drops for the guard.
The others are 2 Ynnari that just they haven't figured out how to fix yet. And then the two odd balls of Ta'u and the Robute G. gunline. Which actually isn't running the loyal 32 and is just a weird list leaning heavily on killshot and the rerolls.
Finals are Brandon Grant and Alex Harrison. Ynnari verse Knights/Guard list.
Kind of interesting that the Ynnari list doesn't really feature any of the standards. No Dark Reapers, no Shining Spears, just a shit ton of Scatbikes and fliers. Sort of suggests that, shockingly, Ynnari might be the problem as opposed to any particular units.
Castellans in Soup are 100% a problem now, though. Like... the entire meta at LVO was geared up towards dealing with Knights and they still wound up dominating the top tables.
Finals are Brandon Grant and Alex Harrison. Ynnari verse Knights/Guard list.
Kind of interesting that the Ynnari list doesn't really feature any of the standards. No Dark Reapers, no Shining Spears, just a shit ton of Scatbikes and fliers. Sort of suggests that, shockingly, Ynnari might be the problem as opposed to any particular units.
Castellans in Soup are 100% a problem now, though. Like... the entire meta at LVO was geared up towards dealing with Knights and they still wound up dominating the top tables.
I agree.
Right now the two armies I hate playing are Guard and Knights. And usually they come attached at the hip.
Guardsmen should be 5 points. Why they cost less than cultist still blows my mind.
I think Castellans should probably go up to 675 or so. Make them so expensive that if you take them you are going to be cutting something.
Guard just gets so much for so little. Even with those two things, it means maybe one less basilisk for a guard/knight list right now.
And it doesn't help my club has 3 hardcore guard players. They played before guard were the thing so its not bandwagon guard players. But they are also the folks who are up to play every single week/day.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Finals are Brandon Grant and Alex Harrison. Ynnari verse Knights/Guard list.
Kind of interesting that the Ynnari list doesn't really feature any of the standards. No Dark Reapers, no Shining Spears, just a shit ton of Scatbikes and fliers. Sort of suggests that, shockingly, Ynnari might be the problem as opposed to any particular units.
Castellans in Soup are 100% a problem now, though. Like... the entire meta at LVO was geared up towards dealing with Knights and they still wound up dominating the top tables.
it's mostly guard being so cheap you can form a complete army while spending 650 points on a castellan
pure knights list are "fine"
I still wish they would've just made it so a detachment from another army had a points limit
CP can only be spent on an unit of the same faction that produced it. Aka guard detachment produces 5 CP, they can only be spent on guard units.
With two exceptions:
1)The three CP you get from battleforged can be spent on any detachment.
2)The three general use stratagems (re-roll, bravery, interrupt) can pull from any pool of CP.
Problem is this makes the accounting for CP a bigger pain in the ass.
What would be the problem of standardized CP across all armies? Would it devalue troop choices too much? Maybe something along the lines of you get X CP per troop choice where X is based off of the cost of those troops, so that a full 10 man squad of intercessors grants more CP than whatever guard uses to fill out their lists?
What would be the problem of standardized CP across all armies? Would it devalue troop choices too much? Maybe something along the lines of you get X CP per troop choice where X is based off of the cost of those troops, so that a full 10 man squad of intercessors grants more CP than whatever guard uses to fill out their lists?
Within each Codex CP is mostly well balanced. Armies that can use CP to become turbocharged (like Custodes or Knights) aren't especially good at generating CP, while armies that can gain a lot of CP mostly can't use it that well (Guard).
The core, fundamental problem is that somewhere along the line GW completely forgot that you can take Knights and Guard in the same army and use the CP generated by one to fuel the other.
The obvious solution is something like Mazzyx's. Let Guard generate their shitton of CP, just don't let their allies take advantage of that.
Eldar soup is a different issue, although the key problems there seem to be a combination of a) Soulburst is brokenly strong, b) only three Eldar factions mean that there is literally no downside to taking the best units from each one, and c) there are some massively undercosted units in each Eldar faction. A and C are relatively easy to solve, but B might be trickier (if it needs to get solved at all).
Burnage on
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I've seen that a Space Wolves slam captain can hit on 2s with a thunder hammer but I don't see how.
What am I missing?
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I've seen that a Space Wolves slam captain can hit on 2s with a thunder hammer but I don't see how.
What am I missing?
Wolves gain a +1 to hit on the turn they charge, are charged, or heroically intervene.
A Wolf slam captain has a base ws of 2+ that has a -1 from the hammer and then gains a +1 in that first round of combat so he hits on 2+.
Edit: The reason that BA's are still the best is they have an artifact thunderhammer with out the -1 and does 4D instead of 3D and they get a +1 to wound instead of hit meaning they wounding everything in the game pretty much on a 3+ or 2+ while hitting on 2+1 re-rolling 1s.
I've seen that a Space Wolves slam captain can hit on 2s with a thunder hammer but I don't see how.
What am I missing?
Wolves gain a +1 to hit on the turn they charge, are charged, or heroically intervene.
A Wolf slam captain has a base ws of 2+ that has a -1 from the hammer and then gains a +1 in that first round of combat so he hits on 2+.
Edit: The reason that BA's are still the best is they have an artifact thunderhammer with out the -1 and does 4D instead of 3D and they get a +1 to wound instead of hit meaning they wounding everything in the game pretty much on a 3+ or 2+ while hitting on 2+1 re-rolling 1s.
On top of all the charge/deep strike shenanigans.
Most people prefer angels wing over the hammer. Reroll charges and cannot be overwatched is amazing.
I feel a lot of the BA's stuff is BS
I wanted a thunder hammer back when I was making a custom marshal but it was plastic and a real pain to get bits wise
Posts
the big "thing" in 8th is that good units are almost always specialized to some end
it's why you're never gonna see knight wardens, but gallants and crusaders are everywhere
it's why custodes would rather take a smash captain or castellan than a land raider, and why loyalists would rather take devastators than dreds
also warglaves are awful, helverins are decent to have to cap points and clear cheap units but aren't that amazing
Well they have had that paint color since the heady days of yore
Any advice on what to consider when equipping them? The bolt carbine seems alright but it seems like it is almost better to run all combat knives since I get 4 attacks in close combat. Also looks like the pack leader can equip a carbine, combat knife, and heavy bolt pistol.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
20m float by Fabrizio Galli
EDIT: Also the video promoting this is quite ridiculous:
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Also, my intercessors are sitting with auto bolt rifles right now. How likely is it that I'll get a lot of nonsense for calling them just bolt rifles? I kind of like the bolt rifles more with the new bolter rule but I'm not gonna buy another 20 intercessors to model that.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Couple things to think about here: the way the GeeDubs page says to use them is as a CC support unit: they don't have any heavy weaponry outside of the single grenade you throw, and you more often than not will want to throw a Shock Grenade into a unit that you may try to charge with other units. That won't happen until turn 3 however if you're using their deep strike ability (deploying on turn 2 and at 9" or greater from enemy troops). Looking at that initial deployment where you're unlikely to get the charge off (27% chance of rolling 9" or higher), the only thing you can count on are your opening shots where the carbine is better in all cases (except against a 2+ save where it is equal to heavy pistols). On subsequent rounds you'll have to see if even 40 attacks at 4S 0AP 1D will be able to take down the targets you're using them to fight. You can expect to get 4.44 kills against MEQs with those attacks, + another 1.5 from shooting your heavy pistols prior to the charge for 5.94 total. On the other hand with only 30 attacks and carbines (factoring in 1 less shooter for the shock grenade) you'd still get 5.3 kills, and only start seeing gains on subsequent rounds stuck in combat.
Honestly this is the proper advice right here. Plus you can combat squad them and use their shock grenades and terror troop special abilities twice each round. To be honest I'm still having trouble figuring out how to properly use them, especially in an all Primaris army. I think they have their place in armies that have a few competent CC squads, for example if I were to use them to support Deathwing Termies or Knights, but I don't consider them a hard CC unit on their own.
So, new Abaddon release sometime in early March apparently lining up with the Vigilus 2 stuff. Looks like he has a cape now!
Take the Nexos, for example: he has the ability to generate a command point on a 6+ whenever you or your opponent spend one. OK, great, neat even. Now realise that, with Cult Ambush being the Big New Rule and the way the Cult Stratagems are almost all about messing with your own deployment, you can potentially get a bunch of extra distractions, disappearances, and explosions very early. But it isn’t just the Nexos working his master plan to make everything happen; if you have a Primus (the field general of the Cult) you get +1 to the roll for recycling your CPs. Even better, if you have a Clamavus (propaganda and infowar specialist) you get +1 to the roll for enemy CPs.
So, basically if you build a proper command section with a field commander, intel analyst, and comms specialist, you get to completely outmanoeuvre and bamboozle the enemy for cheap or even free.
This isn’t even the Clamavus’ actual job though, just a side effect of them being on the table with a Nexos; they have a 6” bubble of +1 to Ld tests, advances, and charges, a 12” no-teleport zone, and a 6” pain bubble for enemy units. If you’re willing to forego the presence of the Patriarch (which is a wrench, since he’s a beatstick capable of blitzing whole elite units), there’s even a Warlord Trait to boost all of those by 3”.
Or you could give that to your Magus to extend their bubble of bonus deny the witch rolls.
Basically there’s a lot of awesome in the HQ and elites section here and I want it all. :twisted:
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I can't split them in the unit like that though. I'd have to run two separate 5 man squads of Reivers to go 50/50 with them.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Between tooth n claw the kill team reivers and the xmas deal my brother ended up with 20 he said so 5 of them are bolter 5 are the pistol and knife the other 10 are random to mix it up
The problem is I only have 10 and I cannot run 10 in one squad and mix the weapons up. It is either take the carbine and heavy bolt pistol or take the combat knife and heavy bolt pistol on all of them. In order for me to run 5 as carbine and 5 as combat knife I'd have to run two separate squads of 5 Reivers and that takes up two Elite slots in my Space Wolves army.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Only problem with that is that it only works for the Patriarch, Primus, and Magus, no other characters can be elevated that way, and for Matched Play the Patriarch must be the Warlord if you have one. It’s an … interesting strategic choice that a lot of armies don’t have to make (yes I’m looking at you, Imperial Knights).
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knights have to pay 1 or 3 cp for warlord traits
also itc rules make it so you have to take your warlord from your highest cost faction, so no more kurovs+grand strategist
The last isn't as broken since you get 1 cp per battle round, so if you roll well that is 5 cp a game now.
Yes, just like everyone else, however, the restrictions on who can be those extra ‘warlords’ are much less onerous. Imagine if you could only use that Stratagem if your ‘real’ Warlord was a Dominus and one of the chosen extras had to be a Preceptor. That’s what I meant about strategic choice, not whether or not it costs CP.
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1. Astra Militarium
2. Ynnari
3. Ad Mech w/ loyal 32 and Knight Castellan
4. Astra Militarium
5. Ynnari
6. Ta'u
7. Astra Militarium w/knights
8. Adeptus Astartes-RG gunline w/ no loyal 32 and two repulsors+3 preds but does have a BA smash captain
9. Chaos Daemon soup
Basically its guard+knight+special seasoning for half of them. Then Ynnari. With a couple of outliers.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Not really a surprise to be honest. It's a shame that 2018's CA didn't really touch either the Imperial Doom list or Ynnari.
I'm hoping that in future GW figures out a workaround for the 8 month lead-up printing time. At the moment it doesn't really give them any ability to actually respond to the current meta.
it's guard that continue to be a bigger problem
All 4 AM list have knights. 3 of them are Castellans the last one has a Cerastus.
The big thing is that AM+Knights are half of the top 8 and weren't touched in CA18, some were buffed with point drops for the guard.
The others are 2 Ynnari that just they haven't figured out how to fix yet. And then the two odd balls of Ta'u and the Robute G. gunline. Which actually isn't running the loyal 32 and is just a weird list leaning heavily on killshot and the rerolls.
Edit:
The top 21 lists going into day 3
Lots of knights. Also there are kroot in the undefeated Ta'u list. I want to watch that list in action.
Kind of interesting that the Ynnari list doesn't really feature any of the standards. No Dark Reapers, no Shining Spears, just a shit ton of Scatbikes and fliers. Sort of suggests that, shockingly, Ynnari might be the problem as opposed to any particular units.
Castellans in Soup are 100% a problem now, though. Like... the entire meta at LVO was geared up towards dealing with Knights and they still wound up dominating the top tables.
I agree.
Right now the two armies I hate playing are Guard and Knights. And usually they come attached at the hip.
Guardsmen should be 5 points. Why they cost less than cultist still blows my mind.
I think Castellans should probably go up to 675 or so. Make them so expensive that if you take them you are going to be cutting something.
Guard just gets so much for so little. Even with those two things, it means maybe one less basilisk for a guard/knight list right now.
And it doesn't help my club has 3 hardcore guard players. They played before guard were the thing so its not bandwagon guard players. But they are also the folks who are up to play every single week/day.
it's mostly guard being so cheap you can form a complete army while spending 650 points on a castellan
pure knights list are "fine"
I still wish they would've just made it so a detachment from another army had a points limit
CP can only be spent on an unit of the same faction that produced it. Aka guard detachment produces 5 CP, they can only be spent on guard units.
With two exceptions:
1)The three CP you get from battleforged can be spent on any detachment.
2)The three general use stratagems (re-roll, bravery, interrupt) can pull from any pool of CP.
Problem is this makes the accounting for CP a bigger pain in the ass.
Within each Codex CP is mostly well balanced. Armies that can use CP to become turbocharged (like Custodes or Knights) aren't especially good at generating CP, while armies that can gain a lot of CP mostly can't use it that well (Guard).
The core, fundamental problem is that somewhere along the line GW completely forgot that you can take Knights and Guard in the same army and use the CP generated by one to fuel the other.
The obvious solution is something like Mazzyx's. Let Guard generate their shitton of CP, just don't let their allies take advantage of that.
Eldar soup is a different issue, although the key problems there seem to be a combination of a) Soulburst is brokenly strong, b) only three Eldar factions mean that there is literally no downside to taking the best units from each one, and c) there are some massively undercosted units in each Eldar faction. A and C are relatively easy to solve, but B might be trickier (if it needs to get solved at all).
What am I missing?
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Wolves gain a +1 to hit on the turn they charge, are charged, or heroically intervene.
A Wolf slam captain has a base ws of 2+ that has a -1 from the hammer and then gains a +1 in that first round of combat so he hits on 2+.
Edit: The reason that BA's are still the best is they have an artifact thunderhammer with out the -1 and does 4D instead of 3D and they get a +1 to wound instead of hit meaning they wounding everything in the game pretty much on a 3+ or 2+ while hitting on 2+1 re-rolling 1s.
On top of all the charge/deep strike shenanigans.
Most people prefer angels wing over the hammer. Reroll charges and cannot be overwatched is amazing.
I wanted a thunder hammer back when I was making a custom marshal but it was plastic and a real pain to get bits wise