Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?
Potayto potahto. They're... both correct?
No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.
For instance, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, on the other hand, were fair game. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.
Yeah while this isn’t good for Northam it’s important to understand how we went from indentured servitude to slavery because it was more profitable and invented American white supremacy to justify it, so
Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?
Potayto potahto. They're... both correct?
No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.
For instances, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, not so much. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.
I'm referring more to the difference between "Slavery as an Institution" as it came to be known in the United States and slavery as a general term for unfree labor.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?
Potayto potahto. They're... both correct?
No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.
For instances, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, not so much. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.
I'm referring more to the difference between "Slavery as an Institution" as it came to be known in the United States and slavery as a general term for unfree labor.
I think the purposeful construction of white supremacy, and how it and slavery intertwined is important enough that the distinction makes sense.
Edit:Now, Northam shouldn't quibble about it, obviously, but there is a distinction
I'm imagining he's actually been doing a bunch of the kind of reading he talked about and so he's getting technical because he, like, literally read about that the night before and he's quoting a book or article basically verbatim.
Damnit I was just thinking this is Northam being too cute showing off his newfound Coates-reading wokeness but I watched again and he’s kind of a dipshit
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
This can't be real. Northam is just trolling us now.
It's a shitty slanted rightwing site, but unless there's an egregious racist angle I'm missing or something, it's no worse than something like NRO, and posting links to it is fine.
(Not that I would take anything they say seriously, based on the few articles I scanned.)
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I just saw a poll of Virginians on the Washington Post in which 46% of surveyed whites said Northam should not resign...meanwhile, 58% of surveyed African-Americans said he shouldn't resign.
Apparently another poll also showed that 11% of respondents had either worn blackface themselves or know someone who has.
Isn't indentured servitude considered a form of slavery?
Potayto potahto welllll...
They're... both correct? Depending on how charitable/damning you feel like being.
Not necessarily. Indenturement changed in form but initially it was either due to a criminal offense or an actual contract a person entered into. You had terms of indenturement and it was a set contract at the end of which time you regained your freedom. Often they had specific terms/conditions that the person holding that contract had to maintain for the feeding/care of their indentured servants.
So he was technically correct but one has to be really careful about mixing those two terms up because they are NOT the same thing and implying black slaves from later periods were indentured servants would be really bad.
The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.
Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.
On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”
Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.
The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.
Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.
On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”
Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.
And when the inevitable "What about celebrating white people? Huh? Why are you tearing down monuments to white people, and putting up monuments to black people? You're the racists!", needs to be met with a single statement.
"Show me a white person who's deserving of honoring, that isn't an avowed racist, and we'll consider it."
It's not the color of their skin that is causing monuments to white people to be torn down. It's the content of their character.
The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.
Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.
On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”
Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.
And when the inevitable "What about celebrating white people? Huh? Why are you tearing down monuments to white people, and putting up monuments to black people? You're the racists!", needs to be met with a single statement.
"Show me a white person who's deserving of honoring, that isn't an avowed racist, and we'll consider it."
It's not the color of their skin that is causing monuments to white people to be torn down. It's the content of their character.
Actually I think the correct response is to simply roll your eyes and sarcastically say "Yeah cause there's no roads or cities or countries named after white people"
The council voted 8-0-1 to change the name of the street from Boulevard to Arthur Ashe Boulevard, endorsing the plan put forth by 2nd District Councilwoman Kimberly Gray last fall. Councilwoman Reva Trammell abstained.
Gray’s was the third attempt to rename the street for Ashe, the first black man to win Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Australian Open. He was barred from playing at the tennis courts on Byrd Park as a child growing up in Richmond. The courts were reserved for white players only.
The timing of the vote was not lost on supporters of the idea who were present at Monday’s council meeting, or on Gray. She has pitched the name change as a demonstration of the progress the city has made toward racial reconciliation.
On Monday, Gray said a vote in support of renaming the street for Ashe would show “the Richmond of today is not represented by the tawdry and buffoonish behavior and explanations we have witnessed over the last 10 days.”
Supporters of the plan said honoring an African-American on the busy street was an opportunity for the city to begin counterbalancing the Confederate iconography that stands on Monument Avenue.
Other VA, name-related news there's also the new dorm at James Madison University (located in Harrisonburg, VA), which is being named after a slave that Madison owned.
Jennings in a notable historical figure, with his memoir / book challenging the "Dolly Madison saved the Washington Portrait" story. His is a rather cool story, if you weren't familiar with him.
Leah Dozier Walker, a state employee who is the director of the Office of Equity and Community Engagement at the Virginia Department of Education, wrote to Pam Northam's office on Monday alleging that on a tour for state Senate pages, the first lady spoke in the mansion's kitchen cottage -- where slaves used to work -- and gave black pages, including Walker's eighth grade daughter, pieces of cotton. Walker's daughter has said she did not take the cotton.
"During the tour of the Mansion Cottage, (Walker's daughter) and two of her (fellow) pages were asked to hold cotton that the First Lady retrieved from a bowl on a nearby table," Walker wrote in the letter. "Mrs. Northam then asked these three pages (the only African-American pages in the program) if they could imagine what it must have been like to pick cotton all day."
And this one popped up from my old home town. Note that this in the "purple" area of Loudoun.
An elementary school in Northern Virginia is apologizing for trivializing slavery after students played a game in a physical education class that required them to simulate moving through the Underground Railroad.
As part of recognizing Black History Month, students in the third, fourth and fifth grades at Madison’s Trust Elementary in Brambleton, Va., were given a lecture this month about the Underground Railroad. The students were then divided into groups of six and were responsible for overcoming a physical obstacle, such as moving through plastic hoops without knocking them over, said Wayde Byard, a spokesman for Loudoun County Public Schools.
"If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
The second one strikes me as a school initiative for every class to have something to tie into Black History Month, and the gym teacher went "hmm...well, I guess...?"
And/or, said initiative started years ago when there was less focus on this, and it was carried through unchanged until now.
The second one strikes me as a school initiative for every class to have something to tie into Black History Month, and the gym teacher went "hmm...well, I guess...?"
And/or, said initiative started years ago when there was less focus on this, and it was carried through unchanged until now.
Maybe this is why the basketball unit in middle/high school gym always came up in February...
Honestly the cotton thing seems like they're just looking for something to complain about with that one. One of the major obvious negative aspects of slavery in the South was that it was widely used for picking cotton. Picking cotton is a horrible way to spend your life and trying to make it clear how horrible that would be is a pretty reasonable thing to do as part of talking about the lives of slaves and how that's central to the history of a place like the Governor's mansion. When I've gone to similar sites I've been handed things and been asked to imagine what life would be like as an indentured servant or an apprentice or farmer etc etc. Maybe she singled out the black kids to ... like send them a message about how bad slavery was (?)... or maybe they happened to be the ones closest to her
Honestly the cotton thing seems like they're just looking for something to complain about with that one. One of the major obvious negative aspects of slavery in the South was that it was widely used for picking cotton. Picking cotton is a horrible way to spend your life and trying to make it clear how horrible that would be is a pretty reasonable thing to do as part of talking about the lives of slaves and how that's central to the history of a place like the Governor's mansion. When I've gone to similar sites I've been handed things and been asked to imagine what life would be like as an indentured servant or an apprentice or farmer etc etc. Maybe she singled out the black kids to ... like send them a message about how bad slavery was (?)... or maybe they happened to be the ones closest to her
The cotton thing seems very strange if she ONLY gave the cotton to the black students, which the article makes it sound like. If she had given it to all the students, there wouldn't be a problem. Only giving it to the black students is hella dumb.
Yeah, I've been given cotton on field trips to old plantations before, but to single out just the black students seems to me to be the red flag.
To me, as a white person in the midwest that has never visited an old plantation, by singling out the black kids it turned the message from "Its terrible this happened" to "it sure would be a shame if we could treat you as a slave *wink*". This could be me going all white savior and reading too much into it though.
Yeah, I've been given cotton on field trips to old plantations before, but to single out just the black students seems to me to be the red flag.
To me, as a white person in the midwest that has never visited an old plantation, by singling out the black kids it turned the message from "Its terrible this happened" to "it sure would be a shame if we could treat you as a slave *wink*". This could be me going all white savior and reading too much into it though.
It strikes more as someone trying to speak directly to the people it would have affected. Like, it's really dumb but I don't see anything nasty like you are saying here. Just ignorant.
VA folks next Tuesday are primaries for a whole bunch of local elections. Check your precincts and your registration. Read up. And vote.
VA has off year elections and this year is important.
Seems like someone keeps saying every next election is "the most important election in decades".
And I don't think they're wrong.
Every time these assholes win, it just emboldens them. And a loss, but one where they can still be dickbags (like stripping an incoming Governor of power), is just a setback.
VA folks next Tuesday are primaries for a whole bunch of local elections. Check your precincts and your registration. Read up. And vote.
VA has off year elections and this year is important.
Seems like someone keeps saying every next election is "the most important election in decades".
And I don't think they're wrong.
Every time these assholes win, it just emboldens them. And a loss, but one where they can still be dickbags (like stripping an incoming Governor of power), is just a setback.
Just so damned tired.
Want the truth, every election is important. Democracy is a marathon not a sprint. Probably more like the boulder of Sisyphus.
But taking the legislature this year has a lot of secondary effects.
1. Equal Rights Amendment
2. Gun Control Bills
3. Abortion protections
Just off the top of my head.
+5
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The most important election is always the next one.
IIRC ERA was held up by one shitty GOP senator, so getting a majority in there could be all that it takes. We have a reasonable shot at seeing the GOP lose control of both chambers. I guess this is also a good place to ask, I'm currently in Chesapeake and they sent out new cards for polling locations in April. From what I understand, the new districts are still being appealed in court before SCOTUS. It's possible that google is falling me or someone missed a key detail. Anyways, anyone else that is in a area where district lines would be changed if the new districts stick, get a new voting card? It seems odd for the cards to go out, if the lines aren't certain.
If democrats take the majority, that definitely means changes to some shitty gun laws and possibly to the shitty abortion laws.
I also like the credo of every election is more important than the last one. Ratfucker scum isn't going stop trying to regress society because they happened to the lose the last election, they'll keep trying until people get complacent and let them win. Anti-vaxxer and flat earthers are proof enough that no terrible idea ever ages out of being endorsed by some idiot.
IIRC ERA was held up by one shitty GOP senator, so getting a majority in there could be all that it takes. We have a reasonable shot at seeing the GOP lose control of both chambers. I guess this is also a good place to ask, I'm currently in Chesapeake and they sent out new cards for polling locations in April. From what I understand, the new districts are still being appealed in court before SCOTUS. It's possible that google is falling me or someone missed a key detail. Anyways, anyone else that is in a area where district lines would be changed if the new districts stick, get a new voting card? It seems odd for the cards to go out, if the lines aren't certain.
If democrats take the majority, that definitely means changes to some shitty gun laws and possibly to the shitty abortion laws.
I also like the credo of every election is more important than the last one. Ratfucker scum isn't going stop trying to regress society because they happened to the lose the last election, they'll keep trying until people get complacent and let them win. Anti-vaxxer and flat earthers are proof enough that no terrible idea ever ages out of being endorsed by some idiot.
I would probably check the info on the elections website.
Hrm I haven't gotten any literature for the primaries yet, I wonder if we just don't have any competitive races. Definitely going to have to look into it.
My primary seems to be between a "Weed legalization is my #1 issue" techbro and a "I'm a mom! Also a teacher. Did I mention I'm a mom!" woman. Suppose I'll go with the latter, I support legalization but there's no way that should be at the top of anyone's issue list.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
Hrm I haven't gotten any literature for the primaries yet, I wonder if we just don't have any competitive races. Definitely going to have to look into it.
Yeah, I mentioned the election last night to my wife and she said the same thing. We're new to Virginia, though. I wasn't even sure if they send out literature about it.
edit: checked and there are two things on my ballot: Commonwealth's Attorney and Chairman Board of Supervisors.
Posts
Potayto potahto welllll...
They're... both correct? Depending on how charitable/damning you feel like being.
No. There were some legal protections, though who knows how well they were enforced, for indentured servants that slaves just didn't have. It's why you see places like Texas using the words indentured servant over slave when writing school textbooks.
For instance, the children of indentured servants generally couldn't be sold. Slave children, on the other hand, were fair game. Think of it like how sweatshops are treated as altogether different than general human trafficking even though they might be intertwined.
I'm referring more to the difference between "Slavery as an Institution" as it came to be known in the United States and slavery as a general term for unfree labor.
I think the purposeful construction of white supremacy, and how it and slavery intertwined is important enough that the distinction makes sense.
Edit:Now, Northam shouldn't quibble about it, obviously, but there is a distinction
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/02/northam-on-indentured-servants.php
(Not that I would take anything they say seriously, based on the few articles I scanned.)
Apparently another poll also showed that 11% of respondents had either worn blackface themselves or know someone who has.
Not necessarily. Indenturement changed in form but initially it was either due to a criminal offense or an actual contract a person entered into. You had terms of indenturement and it was a set contract at the end of which time you regained your freedom. Often they had specific terms/conditions that the person holding that contract had to maintain for the feeding/care of their indentured servants.
So he was technically correct but one has to be really careful about mixing those two terms up because they are NOT the same thing and implying black slaves from later periods were indentured servants would be really bad.
Jesus Christ Northam.
Also the only governor outside Northam who is from the same part of the state.
Also pretty much if it was a white male alive and in power at any point from 1840-1860 there is a good chance they were a Confederate.
Though Virginia is the purple/blue odd duck of the South it is also the capital of the Confederacy and is still wrestling with that.
Sadly how it seems we wrestle with that is either a)remove it all and not talk about it or b)leave it up and not talk about.
It’s still up there during his “I’m a newly woke” tour though
He was asked about it one of said interviews and gave the “honor history” response
He’s a godsdamned dipshit
Richmond City Council renames Boulevard for Arthur Ashe
And when the inevitable "What about celebrating white people? Huh? Why are you tearing down monuments to white people, and putting up monuments to black people? You're the racists!", needs to be met with a single statement.
"Show me a white person who's deserving of honoring, that isn't an avowed racist, and we'll consider it."
It's not the color of their skin that is causing monuments to white people to be torn down. It's the content of their character.
Actually I think the correct response is to simply roll your eyes and sarcastically say "Yeah cause there's no roads or cities or countries named after white people"
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Other VA, name-related news there's also the new dorm at James Madison University (located in Harrisonburg, VA), which is being named after a slave that Madison owned.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/james-madison-u-names-dormitory-after-founding-fathers-enslaved-servant/2019/02/08/3ee10718-2bbe-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html?utm_term=.42b9abd37b22
Jennings in a notable historical figure, with his memoir / book challenging the "Dolly Madison saved the Washington Portrait" story. His is a rather cool story, if you weren't familiar with him.
Virginia first lady handed out cotton to African-American children on slave cottage tour, mother says
And this one popped up from my old home town. Note that this in the "purple" area of Loudoun.
‘Slavery is not a game’: Virginia school apologizes over Black History Month exercise
And/or, said initiative started years ago when there was less focus on this, and it was carried through unchanged until now.
Maybe this is why the basketball unit in middle/high school gym always came up in February...
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
The cotton thing seems very strange if she ONLY gave the cotton to the black students, which the article makes it sound like. If she had given it to all the students, there wouldn't be a problem. Only giving it to the black students is hella dumb.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
To me, as a white person in the midwest that has never visited an old plantation, by singling out the black kids it turned the message from "Its terrible this happened" to "it sure would be a shame if we could treat you as a slave *wink*". This could be me going all white savior and reading too much into it though.
It strikes more as someone trying to speak directly to the people it would have affected. Like, it's really dumb but I don't see anything nasty like you are saying here. Just ignorant.
VA has off year elections and this year is important.
Seems like someone keeps saying every next election is "the most important election in decades".
And I don't think they're wrong.
Every time these assholes win, it just emboldens them. And a loss, but one where they can still be dickbags (like stripping an incoming Governor of power), is just a setback.
Just so damned tired.
Want the truth, every election is important. Democracy is a marathon not a sprint. Probably more like the boulder of Sisyphus.
But taking the legislature this year has a lot of secondary effects.
1. Equal Rights Amendment
2. Gun Control Bills
3. Abortion protections
Just off the top of my head.
If democrats take the majority, that definitely means changes to some shitty gun laws and possibly to the shitty abortion laws.
I also like the credo of every election is more important than the last one. Ratfucker scum isn't going stop trying to regress society because they happened to the lose the last election, they'll keep trying until people get complacent and let them win. Anti-vaxxer and flat earthers are proof enough that no terrible idea ever ages out of being endorsed by some idiot.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
I would probably check the info on the elections website.
Check your registration:
https://vote.elections.virginia.gov/VoterInformation
That at least will give you a precinct number.
Yeah, I mentioned the election last night to my wife and she said the same thing. We're new to Virginia, though. I wasn't even sure if they send out literature about it.
edit: checked and there are two things on my ballot: Commonwealth's Attorney and Chairman Board of Supervisors.
Thanks for the reminder. I might've missed them if I hadn't seen this thread pop up again.
In case anyone needs a resource that could help them research their candidates, I found that https://ballotpedia.org had some great info on mine.