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[Overwatch] Havana now Live!

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Posts

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Zek wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Dispatch from the Department of Great Ideas

    Add modding support and a map editor.

    "Could this possibly jeopardize the current costume marketplace?"

    Nah, they would need to host the games on their servers (e.g. SC2/WC3 custom maps), so they could just not allows mods to override the character skins. Basically like the current server browser, but with support for real scripting.

    Well, it would be nice to see what creative texture, mesh, or even animation work would appear in custom games.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    They’re already working Overwatch 2 right? They must be.

    There've been hints, they've been asked by journos but they refuse to confirm it so it's just rumored atm.

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    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Refusing to confirm is as good as confirming

    It’s easy to just say, “We aren’t doing it yet”

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    青!
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I do expect an Overwatch 2, mainly because the franchise is quite successful but the pace of development on the live game isn't what you'd expect it to be if the full dev team were still entirely focused on it. Also they've never once attempted to move the story forward beyond "Overwatch has just been reformed" - a sequel could focus more on what comes next.

    I'm not sure what I would want from a sequel though. Probably a fully fleshed out PvE mode which moves the plot forward with regular new missions. But do they change the core multiplayer gameplay? If so, do all the existing characters carry over? What about cosmetics? If it's too similar people will be pissed about having to buy it again, but you don't want to change what isn't broken either.

    TDawgImthebOHGODBEESH3Knuckles
  • McMoogleMcMoogle Registered User regular
    Given the value that i've gotten out of OW, I'm not entirely opposed to an OW2. But I'd much prefer an expansion or something that wouldn't directly split the audience.

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    ChanceBRIAN BLESSEDH3Knuckles
  • TexiKenTexiKen Registered User regular
    I don't know what they could add beyond cosmetics that their system of updating and providing new characters and maps doesn't already do. Hell, there's probably a way now to do graphics upgrades if they wanted or something. The addition of PvE or Battle Royale or a story would only work if the core gameplay is still good and balanced and to be honest I'm getting salty AF right now in the games and I haven't felt this way since Mercy 2.0 was such a blight. This feeling of a growing gap and simple recognition of stuff, if only to make it seem like their shit is together for OWL is also making me be like half the people on Xbox and just go try Apex Legends.

    I give the game credit for being one of the longest consistently played games I've played probably since Marvel vs. Capcom 2 on Dreamcast, but it also feels a bit like a Blizzard/Activision mandate to make OW2 to help with their own recent layoffs and shuffling around to show investors they've got something big in the pipeline.

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  • CoinageCoinage I think I look handsome Registered User regular
    Refusing to confirm is as good as confirming

    It’s easy to just say, “We aren’t doing it yet”
    No, companies always refuse to confirm or deny everything so people don't yell at them. I personally doubt that there will be Overwatch 2 within the next 5 years, buying a pvp only game again is a hard sell

    My baba said that I'm not living right
    I said I'm trying baba
    Fencingsax
  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    I think Overwatch draws people in as much because of the characters and overall bright and shiny aesthetic as it does for the gameplay, if not more. I know I wouldn’t have played without Best Waifu Mei in it.

    It would be hard to reproduce that for a sequel. Either you make a clean break of things or you throw in one or two legacy characters and then you’re dealing with never ending requests to add just one more legacy.

    TDawgChanceH3Knuckles
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Blizzard is pretty used to fans complaining because they changed things by this point

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    Fencingsax
  • TDawgTDawg Registered User regular
    I think Overwatch draws people in as much because of the characters and overall bright and shiny aesthetic as it does for the gameplay, if not more. I know I wouldn’t have played without Best Waifu Mei in it.

    It would be hard to reproduce that for a sequel. Either you make a clean break of things or you throw in one or two legacy characters and then you’re dealing with never ending requests to add just one more legacy.

    It wasn't any particular character that grabbed me, but yeah, the aesthetic drew me in a lot. This, TF2, and Splatoon are basically the only shooters I've played. They're all bright and happy and fun. I dipped into a round of Apex Legends over the weekend and I can see the appeal but I also felt like it wasn't for me.

    Speaking of Splatoon, Splatoon has an obvious break for a sequel (WiiU -> Switch), but for Overwatch where its primarily PC, its continually updated, and there is a precedent for characters radically changing over time & consistent updates, it would be interesting to see what an Overwatch 2 would even look like, and how they would convince current players to upgrade, etc.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    A lot of the engine is weirdly in need of updating. It comes out in places like Roadhog’s hook.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
    Synthesis
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    I think their model is way more like tf2, where they'll maintain it for a decade-ish and eventually just move to f2p when the playerbase shrinks. OWL is still growing, their graphics are aging just fine, and games with strong competitive scenes tend to last a long time.

    Kana on
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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Idk, I measure OW's playerbase by its forum presence here and on Resetera, and sometimes like 12-24 hours will go by without a single post.


    ...makes me worry.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Idk, I measure OW's playerbase by its forum presence here and on Resetera, and sometimes like 12-24 hours will go by without a single post.


    ...makes me worry.

    That may be more an indictment of forums and text-based internet than anything else, though. This forum is pretty dead compared to a few years ago, and Reset would be a much slower-paced board if it had effective moderators.


    Spoiled for rant against Gen Z / Late Millennials
    I'm in a senior-level technical position in my company and right now we are having to go through and retool all of our training materials and references because new hires refuse to actually read anything so we are making videos of everything.

    ChancesoylenthTDawg
  • CruorCruor Registered User regular
    I think Blizz is gonna be their own worst enemy when it comes to retaining players long-term. Their style of Flavor-of-the-month balancing can be really alienating to long-time players, especially when they blanket nerf a whole character archetype that was already a chore to play in the best of circumstances.

  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Come to think of it, what it would be is Total Mayhem, but everybody's primary and alt-fire effectively deal double-damage, and heals are twice as effective because nobody has 2x HP. Because Lucio's healing in that mode is so tied to the effectiveness of amp on a short CD, though, he might be a bit hamstrung...

    Would Moira's orbs deal the same damage / heal the same HPS but only half as much, or would they heal half as much at half the HPS? All kinds of interesting questions pop up...

    Even with half the range, a Hog hook on a 4-sec CD would be insane lol

    Hm... mathematically speaking, would primary fire actually have an advantage? Half the effect twice as often would average out to the same overall rate, notwithstanding other utilities (for instance, Zarya with twice as many 100-HP barriers can block more damage overall thanks to stopping bleedover damage, Tracer with half-length blinks gets a juke more often, and other similar cases).

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited February 11
    Chance wrote: »
    Idk, I measure OW's playerbase by its forum presence here and on Resetera, and sometimes like 12-24 hours will go by without a single post.


    ...makes me worry.

    That may be more an indictment of forums and text-based internet than anything else, though. This forum is pretty dead compared to a few years ago, and Reset would be a much slower-paced board if it had effective moderators.


    Spoiled for rant against Gen Z / Late Millennials
    I'm in a senior-level technical position in my company and right now we are having to go through and retool all of our training materials and references because new hires refuse to actually read anything so we are making videos of everything.

    I ... yes that concerns me. Reading is FUNdamental.

    As for a sequel, I would personally only want a version of overwatch that was a single player or rich pve experience with this world and characters, but I think the odds of that happening are roughly zero. This might just be it for the foreseeable future. OWL, events with new skins and the occasional new hero or map are the likely future here.

    soylenth on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Yeah, one thing I don't understand about Blizzard's overall balance philosophy across many of their games.

    The big, sweeping shakeups that they seem so fond of. Why? If I were a game designer (which I'm not) I would be striving to achieve that perfect level of balance, where everything just feels perfect.

    I think they had that in Starcraft 1, and they have largely stopped tweaking the numbers in SC1. And that game carries on just fine as one of the world's biggest long-standing eSports.

    Why can't they learn from SC1 and just leave well enough alone? Why does HotS need a major meta shakeup every 6 months? Why nerf good heroes into the ground? Why have this revolving door where sometimes heroes are good for a while and then they're not?

    I would think a better design philosophy would be striving to make the perfect balance, where each hero is good in the right circumstances.

    For Overwatch, that means small number tweaks, not broad sweeps and total character reworks. Really, the only character that was ever in need of a total rework was Symmetra 1.0, because she was so so bad. But fixing one hero to be better does not mean they need to shake up the other remaining 25+ heroes just to make one hero relevant.

    BRIAN BLESSED
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    I think it's fair to say blizzard now is not the same company blizzard SC1 was.

    ChanceNobodyTDawgKoopahTroopahH3Knuckles
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Like, is there actual data somewhere that suggests that fans are so fickle that if the entire meta doesn't change dramatically every 6 months they will quit playing?

    Do meta shakeups really help with player retention?

    If I were a pro-gamer, I would be super frustrated with frequent shakeups. And from an outsider perspective, that might be why the HotS pro scene was so volatile. At least one contributor. Thinking from a pro perspective, it's not like they go and reinvent the rules of soccer every year. Sure sometimes they do make rules adjustments. But they are minor and they usually exist to help referees make better calls. They don't go and change the weight of the ball, the length of the field, the size of the goals, and all of that every year. Why do eSports do this?

    I don't follow OWL much because watching people stream from 1st person perspective makes me nauseous with all the bunny hopping and stuff.

    As a novice player, who just dabbles, I'm frustrated as well, because I don't play that much, and so when I do play I don't like having to re-learn the entire game because it has shifted so much since the last time I logged in. Mercy was my main in OW back at launch. But I don't even play her anymore because I've read online that she got reworks and that her ult was overhauled. I just don't have the time or patience to re-learn a hero when I get the random urge to play Overwatch. And to be honest, all the shakeups and major changes act as a deterrent for me to not want to play.

    There's just not enough time to play all the games I want to play, and having the knowledge that much of my time invested in Overwatch will be spent re-learning a hero I already learned makes it very convenient for me to just pass on to a different game that strikes my interest.

    Lucascraft on
    BRIAN BLESSED
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    I mean, blizzard does this with WoW all the time too obviously. I mean, that game plays MUCH differently than vanilla now. I do wonder if that mindset has infected OW to some degree. But I agree in the sense of, is this something management just believes? Or do they have actual metrics that show this is the case?

  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    I mean, blizzard does this with WoW all the time too obviously. I mean, that game plays MUCH differently than vanilla now. I do wonder if that mindset has infected OW to some degree. But I agree in the sense of, is this something management just believes? Or do they have actual metrics that show this is the case?

    WoW PVP is in a godawful state right now and has been for about two years with no signs of improvement.

    I mean, unless you picked the right faction at character creation. Then you're fine! And if you didn't pick the right side to be on, we do have a service that can change that for a modest fee...

    At least they TRY to keep Overwatch balanced.

    soylenth
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Oh, lol, I was purely thinking of pve gameplay. I filed WoW PVP under "an incredibly unbalanced exercise in masochism" a long time ago...

    Klatu
  • TexiKenTexiKen Registered User regular
    Ideally meta shifts should only exist when a new character is introduced and things they never thought of happening happen to existing characters. It's happened for basically every new hero except Richard Hammond.

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  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    I don't think the meta has really ever shifted at the commoner tier I play at

    The winning team is usually the one with better communication and/or composition, but there is never any "every team in every game is suddenly this new thing" in my experience

    Kwoaru on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    I'm personally a big fan of character reworks, I've enjoyed pretty much every major character update they've done. It's never without good reason, usually to address a character being too niche of a pick (Bastion, Symmetra, Torbjorn). The balance changes I don't feel as strongly about, but they're presumably motivated by their internal metrics indicating a problem, either in QP/Competitive games or in OWL. In most cases the common perception of the community is not the same as what really is happening according to the stats, thus why these changes sometimes feel arbitrary. Plus there's no way that the balance can remain in perfect harmony without any changes when they're adding meta-disrupting characters like Brigitte.

    Either way I think a game that evolves over time helps to energize the playerbase and keep them feeling like they're playing something new. Most players get bored if nothing changes for months/years. Back in the SC1 days, games had no post-release monetization model and so the devs had no incentive to keep working on them. That's why there were typically so few big patches. My concern with Overwatch is that what they're doing actually isn't enough - something is still missing that makes players want to keep playing this game for years. Even when they add new characters, the core of the game feels a bit stale to me.

    Zek on
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  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    What I learned from the so-called "moth meta" is that numbers tweaks will be met with just as much if not more acrimony than major revisions, exactly on the grounds that the developer isn't being bold enough or addressing the REAL issues. Blizzard does their sledgehammer nerfs, but they also do things like play with Widowmaker's grapple cooldown or raise Soldier 76's bullet damage by 1. In fact, sometimes the hammer is formed out of a dozen pins, because they're trying to fix multiple characters at once.

    I dunno. I just can't viscerally buy into the idea that Blizzard is genuinely flipping the table as often as they're purported to.

    Kupi on
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  • CoinageCoinage I think I look handsome Registered User regular
    Playing with the same heroes gets really boring. FOTM is good when all heroes are free.

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  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    Trying to fix multiple characters at once is potentially flipping the table

    People get annoyed all the time over stupid pointless shit but I've never heard of minor dripfeed balance adjustments eg. Adjusting hitscan dropoff as being met with complaints or whatever, it's that they throw out a whole bunch of shit out at once instead of sending it out at a steadier flow

    Re: Overwatch 2, I expect if they even title or market it as such (to bring the casual day one players back in) it'll probably be a full-size $60 style expansion pack bolted over the current Overwatch client, just like all their other mainline Blizzard games.

    BRIAN BLESSED on
  • CruorCruor Registered User regular
    The constant shakeups in meta are unnecessary to retain players. The meta should grow and develop naturally as people get better at the game/find new combos/new strategies/whatever. Violent swings in who is viable are antithetical to a natural meta progression.

    If you want an example of natural meta progression, look at competitive Smash Bros Melee. That game is still drawing huge crowds of players and spectators and has never received a balance patch or update. Despite that, the meta is STILL EVOLVING after being around for almost 18 years.

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    I wish I could ban Ana from my team, because at my ELO they save nade for themselves and miss like half their shots, putting out less healing than I do on Zen. And don't get me started on the horrific looking sleep dart attempts.

    BRIAN BLESSED
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    I wish I could ban Ana from my team, because at my ELO they save nade for themselves and miss like half their shots, putting out less healing than I do on Zen. And don't get me started on the horrific looking sleep dart attempts.

    this is me and i'm in gold! But honestly i can have gold healing or bronze healing and it really depends on more than just me (although its mostly me). Are my tanks aware of my line of sight shots? Do my dps keep their flankers off me? Do i get opportunities to sleep/nade the enemy because my team positions well?

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    I wish I could ban Ana from my team, because at my ELO they save nade for themselves and miss like half their shots, putting out less healing than I do on Zen. And don't get me started on the horrific looking sleep dart attempts.

    this is me and i'm in gold! But honestly i can have gold healing or bronze healing and it really depends on more than just me (although its mostly me). Are my tanks aware of my line of sight shots? Do my dps keep their flankers off me? Do i get opportunities to sleep/nade the enemy because my team positions well?

    If your team isn't letting you heal with LoS, then you need to swap to probably Lucio to heal them (or Brig if you're offheal). Best to go where they are if they don't respect LoS.

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    Chance wrote: »
    Yeah but it'd be fun.

    I'm satisfied with my rodentine main for now.
    Kupi wrote: »
    What I learned from the so-called "moth meta" is that numbers tweaks will be met with just as much if not more acrimony than major revisions, exactly on the grounds that the developer isn't being bold enough or addressing the REAL issues. Blizzard does their sledgehammer nerfs, but they also do things like play with Widowmaker's grapple cooldown or raise Soldier 76's bullet damage by 1. In fact, sometimes the hammer is formed out of a dozen pins, because they're trying to fix multiple characters at once.

    I dunno. I just can't viscerally buy into the idea that Blizzard is genuinely flipping the table as often as they're purported to.

    Just last week I saw a OW YT channel mak a video warning that Blizzard is going too far with minor, incremental nerfs...

    Sure the internet isn't a hivemind. But if some are seeing crawl and others are seeing run, maybe Blizzard is just doing what it thinks is right in each situation. You don't have to agree with them each time to reognise the trend.

    And yeah I also feel the game is basically fine except for a lingering feeling feeling of missing something at its core. IMO it's half the the lack of tanks/healers and half something....more. Blizz could paper over that with faster hero releases, but that's just my opinion, man.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

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  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Pailryder wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    I wish I could ban Ana from my team, because at my ELO they save nade for themselves and miss like half their shots, putting out less healing than I do on Zen. And don't get me started on the horrific looking sleep dart attempts.

    this is me and i'm in gold! But honestly i can have gold healing or bronze healing and it really depends on more than just me (although its mostly me). Are my tanks aware of my line of sight shots? Do my dps keep their flankers off me? Do i get opportunities to sleep/nade the enemy because my team positions well?

    If your team isn't letting you heal with LoS, then you need to swap to probably Lucio to heal them (or Brig if you're offheal). Best to go where they are if they don't respect LoS.

    I think this matter is a two-way street. If Ana heals are being disrupted to the point where a peel doesn't resolve it, then yeah consider a swap or whatever that brings the player closer to the team.

    If the rest of the team is running off to Bumfuck Street, Nowhere knowing they use a LOS healer and that LOS healer has considered their positioning is optimal, then a Lucio/Brig swap is little more than a bandaid solution for a fundamentals problem and the healer is better off trying to communicate (politely) to stay in line of sight or die.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    So should you just not play Ana without a 2nd healer? 'Cause out here in the mean streets of PS4 gold/plat, solo healing is a very real thing.

    I have to nade myself a lot when I play Ana, but my best Ana games are def the ones where I don't have to.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Pailryder wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    I wish I could ban Ana from my team, because at my ELO they save nade for themselves and miss like half their shots, putting out less healing than I do on Zen. And don't get me started on the horrific looking sleep dart attempts.

    this is me and i'm in gold! But honestly i can have gold healing or bronze healing and it really depends on more than just me (although its mostly me). Are my tanks aware of my line of sight shots? Do my dps keep their flankers off me? Do i get opportunities to sleep/nade the enemy because my team positions well?

    If your team isn't letting you heal with LoS, then you need to swap to probably Lucio to heal them (or Brig if you're offheal). Best to go where they are if they don't respect LoS.

    I think this matter is a two-way street. If Ana heals are being disrupted to the point where a peel doesn't resolve it, then yeah consider a swap or whatever that brings the player closer to the team.

    If the rest of the team is running off to Bumfuck Street, Nowhere knowing they use a LOS healer and that LOS healer has considered their positioning is optimal, then a Lucio/Brig swap is little more than a bandaid solution for a fundamentals problem and the healer is better off trying to communicate (politely) to stay in line of sight or die.

    I find that trying to fix positioning is nearly impossible because most players have no idea what good positioning is, let alone why their positioning is bad. It's Dunning-Kruger and trying to explain just backfires.

  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    I have found that good positioning entails putting as much of the cart as possible between me and the damn Widow looking for another Mercy scalp.

    Chance
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    I was more referring to the Ana player checking their own positioning and being like "yes, this is where I, the Ana, should be when shit goes down as enemy visual attention is not immediately drawn to me, yet the team can be easily healed or naded from the vicinity of the objective"

    Basically my callouts boil down to "I can't see you guys, I can't heal you". Then they get the message once they start dying.

    Fencingsax
  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    I was more referring to the Ana player checking their own positioning and being like "yes, this is where I, the Ana, should be when shit goes down as enemy visual attention is not immediately drawn to me, yet the team can be easily healed or naded from the vicinity of the objective"

    Basically my callouts boil down to "I can't see you guys, I can't heal you". Then they get the message once they start dying.

    It did take me a while before I realized that always having the buff beam on a team member even when not fighting meant that opposing players could just visually follow it back to either me or to the person trying to hide from them.

    A long while.

    But I'm better now.

    ChanceMusicool
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