I wanted to post this as it has stuck in my head as a good little story about the spirit of exploration and discovery that these little bots embody. I did not write this but I found it moving.
We spent hundreds of years looking up at the stars and wondering "is there anybody out there?" and hoping and guessing and imagining.
Because we as a species were so lonely and we wanted friends so bad, we wanted to meet other species and we wanted to talk to them and we wanted to learn from them and to stop being the only people in the universe.
We started realizing that things were maybe not going so good for us. We got scared that we were going to blow each other up. We got scared that we were going to break our planet permanently. We got scare that in a hundred years we were all going to be dead and gone and even if there were other people out there we'd never get to meet them.
Then, we built robots.
We gave them names and we gave them brains made out of silicon and we pretended they were people and we asked them "Hey, you wanna go exploring?" and of course they did because we had made them in our own image.
Maybe in a hundred years we won't be around any more. Maybe the planet will be a mess and we'll all be dead and if other people come from the stars we won't be around to meet them and say "Hi, how are you? We're people too, you're not alone anymore!". Maybe we'll be gone.
But we build robots who have beat-up hulls and metal brains and who have names. If the other people come and ask "who were these people? What were they like?"
The robots can say "when they made us, they called us discovery, they called us curiosity, they called us explorer, they called us spirit, they called us opportunity, they must have thought that was important and they told us to tell you Hello"
Work continues on the hopper down in Texas. Various tanks, bulkheads and struts have been added. And the project officially involves wooden planks now.
If the schedule holds SpaceX has an unusual launch tomorrow at 8:45 est. It's a boring GEO launch of a private Indonesian satellite, with the "Beresheet" moon lander ride sharing. Space.com has an informative writeup on it.
Yeah, I mean there was no way that was literally true. (It was more likely just a series of error codes or status codes or whatever - bandwidth being at a premium.)
So how many years was that to get to the moon, good on you SpaceX. Only 14 years ago we had a bunch of private companies fighting to just reach space and win the X prize.
Yeah, I mean there was no way that was literally true. (It was more likely just a series of error codes or status codes or whatever - bandwidth being at a premium.)
But it’s an accurate-enough translation.
I mean, I guess enough people thought it was a word for word message Opportunity sent that snopes had to check it, but its not like they would have taught Opportunity English in the first place.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Annnd a landing. (Don't they almost never try those for geosynchronous launches?)
I'm not going to get tired anytime soon of the second-stage engines instantly going from "not doing much of anything" to "I'm a light bulb!" as soon as they fire up.
GEO launch landings tend to be rarer because they're usually pretty heavy payloads and its a more demanding orbit to get to, but there have been a fair number of them.
On the subject of potential self-sustaining colonies both here and in space. What are the main technical challenges other than cost and creating gravity (to prevent atrophy and other weirdness). To my knowledge hydroponics is done without sunlight and is extremely water efficient, shouldn't you be able to grow food for animals as well? I've heard turkey and chickens are cost efficient to feed and grow for protein, while vegetables can cover almost everything else.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I'd have to wonder if something aquatic wouldn't be better for growing meat. With something like shrimp and an acceptable species of fish in the mix, you can raise the shrimp off waste and algae very quickly with warm water, feed the shrimp to the fish, eat both the fish and the shrimp, and turn any waste into shrimp feed. Those critters already live in what is effectively a microgravity environment, so simulating gravity shouldn't be an issue. And both of them can be transported as low-mass eggs, or otherwise produce so many eggs that breeding them up to capacity for tanks could happen very quickly, even with just a few breeding specimens. As a bonus, they would also live in water, so no need for a separate storage type for growing food and storing water; you have to process recycled water anyway, so it's not like adding fish to it would change anything.
With any sort of terrestial domesticated animal, gravity generation would be an issue, as would living space. Plus, growing feed for them means using up space that could be used for growing food for humans, and what is efficient to feed to animals is generally not edible for humans so you're also spending resources to grow something humans can't use.
Couldn't that be applied to all space installations?
I know large-scale space construction it's probably a few hundred years away, but the basics seem attainable if you applied them to a industrial scale.
manwiththemachinegun on
0
Options
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Couldn't that be applied to all space installations?
Yeah, but I believe the ISS is inside the Van Allen Belts, so that covers a lot of the radiation, supply is something we have been solving with expensive launches, and micrometers become more problematic the larger the installation gets.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
It's going to be really nice to see the flag on the ISS come back down with a crew launched on a US vehicle. Hard to believe that after 8 years, America might be in the manned spaceflight business again.
I'd have to wonder if something aquatic wouldn't be better for growing meat. With something like shrimp and an acceptable species of fish in the mix, you can raise the shrimp off waste and algae very quickly with warm water, feed the shrimp to the fish, eat both the fish and the shrimp, and turn any waste into shrimp feed. Those critters already live in what is effectively a microgravity environment, so simulating gravity shouldn't be an issue. And both of them can be transported as low-mass eggs, or otherwise produce so many eggs that breeding them up to capacity for tanks could happen very quickly, even with just a few breeding specimens. As a bonus, they would also live in water, so no need for a separate storage type for growing food and storing water; you have to process recycled water anyway, so it's not like adding fish to it would change anything.
With any sort of terrestial domesticated animal, gravity generation would be an issue, as would living space. Plus, growing feed for them means using up space that could be used for growing food for humans, and what is efficient to feed to animals is generally not edible for humans so you're also spending resources to grow something humans can't use.
How would you aireate water in zero g? I guess low gravity would still be ok, maybe pressurize the air for zero g?
0
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited February 2019
Oxygen content in water is dependent on gravity only in the sense that gravity, tides, and waves drive the movement of oxygen-rich surface waters into deep areas. Oxygenating water in zero gravity would mean just agitating water in the presence of O2 and pumping it into the rest of the system. A little high-speed pump to mix the water and O2 would probably be plenty to oxygenate quite a lot of water. A system like that would also have some kind of constant flow of water, so dumping in the aerated water and monitoring O2 content wouldn't be hard.
Heck, if the tank small enough, you should be able to just straight pump O2 into it and the O2 will dissolve and disperse on its own. Even a really big tank of still water could probably be fine, as long as there are enough oxygen inlets spread around. But a big tank would have the problem of actually getting the fish out; a system with controlled flow can push the fish around so that they can easily be collected as well.
On the subject of potential self-sustaining colonies both here and in space. What are the main technical challenges other than cost and creating gravity (to prevent atrophy and other weirdness). To my knowledge hydroponics is done without sunlight and is extremely water efficient, shouldn't you be able to grow food for animals as well? I've heard turkey and chickens are cost efficient to feed and grow for protein, while vegetables can cover almost everything else.
Honestly the main challenge is that you could put the same colony in Antarctica or the Sahara, or under the ocean, and have an order of magnitude fewer engineering challenges and easy(er) evacuation in the case of problems. The only reason you'd really do it in space is if you had some other reason to be in space, which is the main reason no one's made serious efforts.
However, assuming you skip over that, I don't think anyone ever really got the oxygen/carbon cycle to work quite right in a sealed environment. It turns out to be much trickier than you'd think - even things we normally consider inert like various metals and building materials tend to slowly bond with atmospheric gasses and mean you have to keep replenishing them.
Bremen on
0
Options
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
worth noting there’s pretty much no need whatsoever to raise animals as food in space
Beyond the hilarity of livestock in zero g, obviously
3000 years of space farming will lead to spherical balls of meat with mouths and eyes. Air pushing fins might emerge for mobility thus creating cow air fish.
Beyond the hilarity of livestock in zero g, obviously
Preservation of the species if it comes to it?
0
Options
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
They could use milk spraying from their udders as propulsion. Maybe get udders displaced to different cardinal directions and have a biological rcs system.
PSN: Honkalot
+4
Options
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I think asteroid mining or moon mining will be the thing that gets a space colony going. If you can keep your workers in space alive without repeated expensive launches of supplies, that's gotta be some pretty good incentive to tackle these problems. I think as soon as the first person becomes incredibly wealthy off of space mining and proves it's feasible and profitable, then we will see that industry grow rapidly.
+3
Options
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Moving that much water into space in order to have enough to raise livestock of any kind would be enormously expensive, in all definitions of that word. Water is heavy.
I don't know that the benefits of being able to do that versus just regular resupply launches would make it worthwhile.
0
Options
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
What about freeze dried water? Just powdered water then you add water to
PSN: Honkalot
+14
Options
BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Moving that much water into space in order to have enough to raise livestock of any kind would be enormously expensive, in all definitions of that word. Water is heavy.
I don't know that the benefits of being able to do that versus just regular resupply launches would make it worthwhile.
Or you just do space food, like tofu, and mushrooms, and algae.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Posts
If the schedule holds SpaceX has an unusual launch tomorrow at 8:45 est. It's a boring GEO launch of a private Indonesian satellite, with the "Beresheet" moon lander ride sharing. Space.com has an informative writeup on it.
Hayabusa-2 has begun its slow descent to the asteroid Ryugu, good luck probe.
If it makes you feel any better, it's not true.
Edit: Less than two hours.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
it kinda is true tho
true enough
Yeah, I mean there was no way that was literally true. (It was more likely just a series of error codes or status codes or whatever - bandwidth being at a premium.)
But it’s an accurate-enough translation.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I mean, I guess enough people thought it was a word for word message Opportunity sent that snopes had to check it, but its not like they would have taught Opportunity English in the first place.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Looks like it worked better than the last one, so it probably has samples to return!
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/2/21/18234782/jaxa-hayabusa-2-ryugu-asteroid-sample-return-mission
Hell yeah.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
I'm not going to get tired anytime soon of the second-stage engines instantly going from "not doing much of anything" to "I'm a light bulb!" as soon as they fire up.
With any sort of terrestial domesticated animal, gravity generation would be an issue, as would living space. Plus, growing feed for them means using up space that could be used for growing food for humans, and what is efficient to feed to animals is generally not edible for humans so you're also spending resources to grow something humans can't use.
Couldn't that be applied to all space installations?
I know large-scale space construction it's probably a few hundred years away, but the basics seem attainable if you applied them to a industrial scale.
Yeah, but I believe the ISS is inside the Van Allen Belts, so that covers a lot of the radiation, supply is something we have been solving with expensive launches, and micrometers become more problematic the larger the installation gets.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Cause Gerard K. O’Neill wrote a book called The High Frontier about all this back in the 1970s
It's going to be really nice to see the flag on the ISS come back down with a crew launched on a US vehicle. Hard to believe that after 8 years, America might be in the manned spaceflight business again.
How would you aireate water in zero g? I guess low gravity would still be ok, maybe pressurize the air for zero g?
Heck, if the tank small enough, you should be able to just straight pump O2 into it and the O2 will dissolve and disperse on its own. Even a really big tank of still water could probably be fine, as long as there are enough oxygen inlets spread around. But a big tank would have the problem of actually getting the fish out; a system with controlled flow can push the fish around so that they can easily be collected as well.
Honestly the main challenge is that you could put the same colony in Antarctica or the Sahara, or under the ocean, and have an order of magnitude fewer engineering challenges and easy(er) evacuation in the case of problems. The only reason you'd really do it in space is if you had some other reason to be in space, which is the main reason no one's made serious efforts.
However, assuming you skip over that, I don't think anyone ever really got the oxygen/carbon cycle to work quite right in a sealed environment. It turns out to be much trickier than you'd think - even things we normally consider inert like various metals and building materials tend to slowly bond with atmospheric gasses and mean you have to keep replenishing them.
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
3000 years of space farming will lead to spherical balls of meat with mouths and eyes. Air pushing fins might emerge for mobility thus creating cow air fish.
Preservation of the species if it comes to it?
I don't know that the benefits of being able to do that versus just regular resupply launches would make it worthwhile.
Or you just do space food, like tofu, and mushrooms, and algae.
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
i’m curious to know what kind of propulsion we can expect here
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor