As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

Historical Context of Fascism

12425262729

Posts

  • Options
    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    The Cult of Personality is one of the things that distinguishes Fascism from Authoritarian conservatism etc. It's one of the core and vital parts of Fascism.

    Also, modern mass media allowing personality cults to completely permeate society at all times, places, and levels distinguishes it from what we see before the invention of radio and tv. Fascism doesn't exist without the all encompassing media environment of the 20th century.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • Options
    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    It used to exist on a smaller scale for this reason. The near religious (or sometimes religious) worship of a current institutions or individual is something many government types use.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Options
    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    On the previous page coin, a minor redeeming factor. I believe that gift shop is a private, non government store that basically just focuses on selling kitschy shit at all times. Some marketing person came up with that idea, unaffiliated with the government. Technically they were granted a permit and permanent location, but they are a for profit kitsch store.

    Darkewolfe on
    What is this I don't even.
  • Options
    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I was in Washington for training a few years back, and had enough time to wander around and check out some of the monuments. During that journey, I found a gift shop (perhaps the same one?).

    After perusing the various odds and ends they had for sale, I snagged a shot glass. It's not a huge collection, but as far as memorabilia of trips, they're small and fairly resilient to damage.

    Now that Trump is president, it feels all the more special, because I more regularly wish for a stiff drink.

    Though in retrospect, I don't actually use the shotglasses all that often, I really should stop getting more of them.
    Thirith wrote: »
    Someone should do a mock-up of a "This is fine" commemorative coin.

    I've actually had a pair of challenge coins made for a fan group in the past. Which is to say, I know a gal who can make that happen...

    But a run of 100+ coins (their minimum, far as I know) is a bit expensive for a gag.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Options
    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    So there's a 7 minute documentary-short on the Bund rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939

    https://anightatthegarden.com

    It's pretty good. The imagery on stage as they sing the anthem and the pledge of allegiance is straight out of The Man in the High Castle.

    The film makers tried to buy national ad time during Hannity and Fox rejected the ad as too controversial, and I'm genuinely more troubled than than mad.



    (Politico person)



    Here's the ad for the Oscar nominated, festival winning short they refused:

    https://player.vimeo.com/video/316176375

    Here's some stills from a 30s trailer they aired for Dinesh D'Souza's presumably shitfest of a movie in August:



    (Daily Beast editor)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • Options
    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

  • Options
    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Aside from the Nazi iconography, that ad already looks like a Trump rally.

    Up to and including the poor guy getting beaten and dragged out.

  • Options
    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Orca wrote: »
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

    IIRC it was the largest single day rally anywhere on Earth during the Third Reich age, that wasn't the annual Nuremburg fete in Germany from 1933-1938.

    USA, USA ,USA!

    BlackDragon480 on
    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • Options
    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

    IIRC it was the largest single day rally anywhere on Earth during the Third Reicb age, that wasn't the annual Nuremburg fete in Germany from 1933-1938.

    USA, USA ,USA!

    Wonderful. I didn't know about it. Fucking hell.

  • Options
    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

    IIRC it was the largest single day rally anywhere on Earth during the Third Reich age, that wasn't the annual Nuremburg fete in Germany from 1933-1938.

    USA, USA ,USA!

    Really? From what I can find it was 20,000 people. That really doesn't seem like that many people.

    cckerberos.png
  • Options
    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

    IIRC it was the largest single day rally anywhere on Earth during the Third Reich age, that wasn't the annual Nuremburg fete in Germany from 1933-1938.

    USA, USA ,USA!

    Really? From what I can find it was 20,000 people. That really doesn't seem like that many people.
    Some European ones that were multiple days got up to around 100k+ and took over whole towns, but the Great American Bund got between 20-23k in one day.

    I'll have to check my figures again. At the least I know it was the largest in the Western Hemisphere.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • Options
    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

    The only reason the US and some other countries avoided getting on the fascist train back in the 30's was basically pure luck in the political leaders at the time. There's no reason that FDR couldn't have gone full Father Coughlin or that Hoover couldn't have tried to whip up anger at a scapegoat after the crash other than the fact that they generally weren't garbage people. This doesn't excuse the population of the countries that went that direction from their complicity, but it definitely doesn't mean that the US is somehow uniquely immune to the lure of fascism.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    God I hate the people that say it can't happen here. That short is video evidence that damned well yes it can.

    The only reason the US and some other countries avoided getting on the fascist train back in the 30's was basically pure luck in the political leaders at the time. There's no reason that FDR couldn't have gone full Father Coughlin or that Hoover couldn't have tried to whip up anger at a scapegoat after the crash other than the fact that they generally weren't garbage people. This doesn't excuse the population of the countries that went that direction from their complicity, but it definitely doesn't mean that the US is somehow uniquely immune to the lure of fascism.

    Pretty much. If you live in a country that did not go fascist in the 30's, you can only thank pure luck. There was a movement, and it was large, and it was closer to power that it seems now.

  • Options
    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    America is fascist, it looks different, but it's there

    The first red scare, the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everyone about, the McCarthyism, the Kent State massacre, the massacres of Black activists ignored by the media, the earnest jingoism of the 80s and 90s, the Patriot act bullshit and hero worship of "the troops" post 911, the NFL partnership with the military to have a nearly compulsory anthem performance

    And the complete disregard of the veterans once they're done with their service is probably an aspect of it too

    DouglasDanger on
  • Options
    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular


    John Cornyn is a sitting United States Senator.

  • Options
    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »


    John Cornyn is a sitting United States Senator.

    He's saying the quiet part out loud again.

  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    He's trying to make some ham fisted look both leftists and Mussolini want big government and know it'll restrict freedom. But, because he's an idiot, he doesn't realize democratic socialists fought and died trying to stop Mussolini.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    edited February 2019
    America is fascist, it looks different, but it's there

    The first red scare, the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everyone about, the McCarthyism, the Kent State massacre, the massacres of Black activists ignored by the media, the earnest jingoism of the 80s and 90s, the Patriot act bullshit and hero worship of "the troops" post 911, the NFL partnership with the military to have a nearly compulsory anthem performance

    And the complete disregard of the veterans once they're done with their service is probably an aspect of it too

    The Jim Crow south was absolutely a set of fascist states complete with successful ethnic cleansing campaigns. Their influences continues today in policies like restrictive voting laws and the modern ideology of the Republican party. Indeed, fascism is baked into the American social and political structures. It already has and is happening here.

    Mayabird on
  • Options
    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    This is the kind of normalization that is legitimately terrifying to me:



    Nate Bethea is a writer and podcaster, mostly military oriented.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • Options
    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    This is the kind of normalization that is legitimately terrifying to me:



    Nate Bethea is a writer and podcaster, mostly military oriented.

    This literally looks like the trailer for a freakin dystopia movie wtf?

  • Options
    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    That ad was made to sell...?

    Anyone?

    Clothing. That was an ad for a clothing brand.

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    That ad was made to sell...?

    Anyone?

    Clothing. That was an ad for a clothing brand.

    They are targeting a profitable market segment. Just the standard "associate our clothing with this lifestyle". It's just that said lifestyle is american conservatism.

  • Options
    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    That ad was made to sell...?

    Anyone?

    Clothing. That was an ad for a clothing brand.

    Clothing that shoots hippies in the face.

    'Murican clothing.

  • Options
    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    That ad was made to sell...?

    Anyone?

    Clothing. That was an ad for a clothing brand.

    Clothing that shoots hippies in the face.

    'Murican clothing.

    Reactionary by Kenneth State

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • Options
    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    That ad was made to sell...?

    Anyone?

    Clothing. That was an ad for a clothing brand.

    They are targeting a profitable market segment. Just the standard "associate our clothing with this lifestyle". It's just that said lifestyle is american conservatismfascism.

  • Options
    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    That ad was made to sell...?

    Anyone?

    Clothing. That was an ad for a clothing brand.
    Can't say I'm surprised. There are few markets as much connected with identity and self-expression as the clothing market. People dress as what they want to be and how they want to be seen, in particular young people. The ad is more earnest and less troll-like than the alt-Right generally is, but otherwise it speaks to a fairly similar audience, I'd say, namely young reactionaries.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • Options
    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

  • Options
    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    Because the riot cop saluted the flag and played football and the rioters had a flag and a lighter.

    Obviously the riot cop is the good guy!

    (there is no good guy, riots are fucking desperate and awful for everyone involved)

  • Options
    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    Because the riot cop saluted the flag and played football and the rioters had a flag and a lighter.

    Obviously the riot cop is the good guy!

    (there is no good guy, riots are fucking desperate and awful for everyone involved)

    There may not be a good guy, but there sure as shit is a bad guy

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
  • Options
    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    There's a lot of people in America who think if cops are going after someone, they deserve it. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap with that group and people scared the government is gonna get em. Lots of cognitive dissonance and racism.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • Options
    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    Because the riot cop saluted the flag and played football and the rioters had a flag and a lighter.

    Obviously the riot cop is the good guy!

    (there is no good guy, riots are fucking desperate and awful for everyone involved)

    Sure, but what the ad showed wasn't a riot.

  • Options
    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    For some weird reason, US has a very poor idea of what an actual riot is.

  • Options
    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    There's a lot of people in America who think if cops are going after someone, they deserve it. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap with that group and people scared the government is gonna get em. Lots of cognitive dissonance and racism.

    Cops aren't The Government. Cops are hard-working blue collar folk just like them. The Government is anonymous men who never did a day's honest work in their lives, but can ruin a million Real Americans with the stroke of a pen.

    If anything, I find the soldier worship more interesting. If The Government ever did come after them, who exactly do they think they'd send?

  • Options
    BigJoeMBigJoeM Registered User regular
    Considering how much of law enforcement and the military trends conservative and racist, they don't see it as a possibility.

  • Options
    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    There's a lot of people in America who think if cops are going after someone, they deserve it. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap with that group and people scared the government is gonna get em. Lots of cognitive dissonance and racism.

    Cops aren't The Government. Cops are hard-working blue collar folk just like them. The Government is anonymous men who never did a day's honest work in their lives, but can ruin a million Real Americans with the stroke of a pen.

    If anything, I find the soldier worship more interesting. If The Government ever did come after them, who exactly do they think they'd send?
    Faceless men in suits.
    Most definitely not the american heroes that is the military.
    Like, i have had arguments where people insist that they need guns to fight government tyranny, and when the fight starts, army will obviously side with the people.

  • Options
    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    There's a lot of people in America who think if cops are going after someone, they deserve it. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap with that group and people scared the government is gonna get em. Lots of cognitive dissonance and racism.

    Cops aren't The Government. Cops are hard-working blue collar folk just like them. The Government is anonymous men who never did a day's honest work in their lives, but can ruin a million Real Americans with the stroke of a pen.

    If anything, I find the soldier worship more interesting. If The Government ever did come after them, who exactly do they think they'd send?
    Faceless men in suits.
    Most definitely not the american heroes that is the military.
    Like, i have had arguments where people insist that they need guns to fight government tyranny, and when the fight starts, army will obviously side with the people.

    That's my favorite thread to poke at. Why do you need guns? Because I need to keep the government in check in case of tyranny. So you can take on the army? You're gonna shoot American men and women serving their country? No way, the army is gonna be on my side. Then why do you need a gun?

    To tie it more directly into the thread, I'm always curious what their tipping point is when they think it's suddenly going to be ok for them to start murdering people. Half the time they say when someone comes for their guns and half the time they just kinda sputter out. But it is kind of a good thing to ponder about. At what point would armed rebellion even be a thing? From what I've seen of fascism in the world today, it's a slow thing that creeps up and unravels over time. Outside of someone usurping power or refusing to leave office with a military behind them, fascism isn't really something you can oppose outside of voting, volunteering, and challenging legally.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • Options
    KamarKamar Registered User regular
    I imagine at any given point a lot of people are past the point where they're morally okay with violence, but they're just not going to go be a terrorist for no benefit.

    And usually, if enough people are getting pissed off in unison that it may evolve into something more, they manage to secure victory via politics instead.

    I worry a bit about what that means over time for peace in, say, a country where a shrinking minority of reactionaries can continue to dominate without necessarily cheating because of the non-democratic allocation of voting power in its legislature and a bit of luck with appointments to the highest court of the nation. Hypothetically.



  • Options
    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    To requote Adam Serwer, "The cruelty is the point."

    There is no ideology. There is no higher thought or reasoning behind it. All they want to do is be the schoolyard bully beating up the smallest kid every day and getting away with it, forever. That's it. Punch down with no consequences, make other people hurt without getting hurt back. That's why you can't reason or argue people out of it, pointing out their hypocrisies and lies; they didn't come to this conclusion but started at it and warp their thoughts and very image of reality around their emotional existence.

  • Options
    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    I don't want to understand how someone can see riot cops, armored and armed to the teeth, facing down peaceful (if angry) protesters and identify with them as the good guys.

    There's a lot of people in America who think if cops are going after someone, they deserve it. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap with that group and people scared the government is gonna get em. Lots of cognitive dissonance and racism.

    Cops aren't The Government. Cops are hard-working blue collar folk just like them. The Government is anonymous men who never did a day's honest work in their lives, but can ruin a million Real Americans with the stroke of a pen.

    If anything, I find the soldier worship more interesting. If The Government ever did come after them, who exactly do they think they'd send?
    Faceless men in suits.
    Most definitely not the american heroes that is the military.
    Like, i have had arguments where people insist that they need guns to fight government tyranny, and when the fight starts, army will obviously side with the people.

    That's my favorite thread to poke at. Why do you need guns? Because I need to keep the government in check in case of tyranny. So you can take on the army? You're gonna shoot American men and women serving their country? No way, the army is gonna be on my side. Then why do you need a gun?

    To tie it more directly into the thread, I'm always curious what their tipping point is when they think it's suddenly going to be ok for them to start murdering people. Half the time they say when someone comes for their guns and half the time they just kinda sputter out. But it is kind of a good thing to ponder about. At what point would armed rebellion even be a thing? From what I've seen of fascism in the world today, it's a slow thing that creeps up and unravels over time. Outside of someone usurping power or refusing to leave office with a military behind them, fascism isn't really something you can oppose outside of voting, volunteering, and challenging legally.

    It's never about rebellion against the government, it's protection against the scary black man that is going to try to invade their house at any second.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • Options
    MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Also, ebum and I seeming to contradict each other is actually #8 of Umberto Eco's 14 properties of Fascism: the enemy is simultaneously too strong and too weak. It's a similar thing to the right-wing media constantly making fun of liberals for being useless and weak while also being absolutely terrified that the liberals will come take their guns and hamburgers while turning them gay. Wanting other races to be held down and be designated punching bag classes while also being terrified that the punching bags will hit them back fits perfectly into fascist thought, which is based on contradictions. It's all a bunch of doublethink.

Sign In or Register to comment.