Yeah, Bernthal's face and the silence that followed after he rescues the girl in the bathroom really sold the "things-were-going-so-well-but-now-I've-murdered-three-people" vibe in the first episode.
RT800 on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I'm near the end of a re-watch on Season 1 and the ground Season 2 retreads for whatever reason was handled way, way better the first time around.
Particularly Castle realizing who he is. They did this in season 1, when Agent Orange is laying into him and he's having those visions of his wife. Artfully speaking, that got the message across in a more clever way compared to season 2 where he literally just tells everyone "I went to my wife's grave and she said this." I guess not enough people picked up on it the first time around so they needed to be handheld to that message.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I guess, having watched it all now, I'd say the actors did a good job with the mess they were given. But basically everything about the plot was impressively unbelievable.
As far as the characterization (I think Bernthal got it exactly right in his acting, even this season and the biggest thing that sticks out to me is in the bar fight early in the season) I think any writers for a Punisher show should really spend some time around Marine grunts. Frank Castle is supposed to be an infantry officer who went through indoc for Recon and ended up a platoon leader in a Force Recon Company. He's going to be aggressive.
They can't make him too aggressive or it'll turn off audiences, since they want to relate and sympathise with people. They touched a bit on this
when he was abusive with Amy, but they couldn't make him like all the time.
No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.
No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.
The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.
The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.
The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.
No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.
The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.
The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.
The Thomas Jane punisher is still my favourite. The Dirty Laundry short just rubbed salt into the wound that we won’t get another one.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
No one should relate or sympathize with The Punisher in the way they were attempting to force though. I'll grant you the first half of the first season during flashbacks, but they really really tried to oversell his humanity.
The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.
The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.
The Thomas Jane punisher is still my favourite. The Dirty Laundry short just rubbed salt into the wound that we won’t get another one.
At the time I was kind of salty that they recast Jane for Punisher Warzone. I had really enjoyed the 2004 punisher movie and really wanted to see more of him. The thing is that Ray Stevens play the character so well and Warzone was a damn good movie. He's the only actor so far to get a proper Punisher story. They didn't have to shoehorn in an origin story and started the movie with a well established Punisher taking care of business. Casting Newman as Micro was a stroke of genius. I read a lot of of MAX comics ater Warzone came out and developed a real appreciation for the movie. Warzone's Jigsaw was a million times better than the Netflix version. Dominic West is a great actor and brought much needed clout to the movie.
Edit: I think the artists for MAX started drawing Punisher to look like Ray Stevenson around the same time.
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
Alright, so what does everyone think of the Dolph Lundgren Punisher movie? I really didn't like it. IIRC he didn't even dawn the trademark white skull.
Frank needed to be a lot more aggressive towards the end. All the bad guys should have been dead few episodes sooner and mainly weren't just because he didn't end them, though at least he returned to form in the end. Stop putting Amy in harms way everyone, though, she doesn't have the instincts for it.
What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
It was kind of Archer-y in how both kind of blew that off.
What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.
Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.
She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited February 2019
Whoever said they represented the Snap is a goose and I believed you and how could you
Also the journalist that said this season would be an adaption of The Slavers from MAX was also a big liar.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I feel like Season 2 of Pun Pun would be legit improved if it were set during the Snap times. Would give it a lot more flavour.
We just got up to
Frank accidentally murdering those women. That was a good scene. The season has been light on those, but it feels like it's finally going somewhere.
That scene was horrible due to the setup. If they wanted to do it they could have done it a looooooot better.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I mostly just appreciated Bernthal's acting there. Could say that for a lot of the series, I guess! His breakdown was really well done. "wait wait wait wait" especially
Just finished this last night. I still think that Bernthal is the best Punisher we could hope for but people are right that the show really fell apart in the last couple of episodes. That final warehouse scene followed by the Stan Lee tribute was Family Guy levels of ridiculous.
What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.
Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.
She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?
Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.
they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank
What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.
Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.
She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?
Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.
they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank
They could have easily still had her on medical leave or had the FBI shrink not sign off on her returning to duty, especially with her obsession. It felt like they found out midway through writing it, that it was there last season, so I had to have Jigsaw's story take over or something.
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.
Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.
She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?
Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.
they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank
I think that's just what they were doing with Madani in Season 2.
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Still watching this season. It's been very good so far. I actually think I might rate the Punisher shows above JJ a little bit now. That would put them at the time.
Minor-ish spoiler from this season shown early like ep or so I think
They really dropped the ball with what's his names face. Like at first I thought that was the intention and it was just going to be to show how shallow he is. But then they have other characters reacting to so strongly to it which just feels bad and silly every time.
Otherwise though dang. Each episode has me wanting more.
After finishing season 2 this week, I'd say it's the strongest second season any of these shows have had, and if DD season 3 hadn't been so strong would probably lift it to be my favourite overall.
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All the movies were ... pretty poor I thought. The best moments are lifted from comics (the popsicle against the skin trick) Even the Netflix series was just so boring. I basically liked Garth Ennis' work on the Punisher, with the MAX stuff being the highlight, his interactions with O'Brien, Yorkie and Barracuda. It's a lot like Watchmen - sure they could make a movie or show that directly adapts those stories but why bother when the source material got it so right. I wanted that Watchmen movie so bad until we got it and I realized it wasn't needed at all. Stories like The Slavers where sure you have the odd moment of satisfaction where Frank dispatches monsters, but ultimately nothing is fixed and no one gets out unscathed. In fact, that final panel of the Slavers arc is the one that sticks with me the most - Viorica crying in the alleyway after seeing a woman with her baby in the diner where she works.
Tom Jane punisher is largely discardable but the scene with The Russian is fucking five stars hysterical, motherfucker hits a thrown grenade with a 2x4 like a baseball and I fucking dare you to not laugh until you die
Broke as fuck in the style of the times. Gratitude is all that can return on your generosity.
I assume this is the last series we're gonna see on Netflix and I...somehow can't see it popping up on a Disney branded channel. Wonder how they're going to handle non-kid fare.
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lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
I assume this is the last series we're gonna see on Netflix and I...somehow can't see it popping up on a Disney branded channel. Wonder how they're going to handle non-kid fare.
Jessica Jones is coming. They already shot it so it'll drop between two and four months after Punisher. After that, no more Netflix series.
Disney has a couple of options for non-kid fare such as Punisher. They either never do it again (which I'm guessing will happen), make it PG-13 and put it on Disney Plus like the Loki and Hawkeye/Falcon shows, make it PG-13 and put it on Hulu like Runaways, or make it MA and put it on Hulu (which I'm guessing will never happen).
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
I sure hope they surprise the hell out of me and do some MA stuff somewhere. Killing off the Netflix stuff so soon is such a waste, no hope for them but I live in blind hope for something.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Watched the Thomas Jane movie.
It was dumb and just kind of watchable where all of its good parts were from the Ennis run and even then they weren’t as good.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Finished season 2!
Alright yea, Punisher is my fav of the Netflix Marvel shows. Dang that was so good.
I'm really hoping something turns around and we get more of this somewhere.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited February 2019
Now folks, Punisher Warzone
Now Folks Punisher Warzone
This is possibly the greatest blending of not only Ennis’s 616 and MAX runs but also the 80s and 90s Punisher. To me, the EOD style armour looks like modernized spandex he used to wear. The Thomas Jayne movie was schlock with distillate decent parts stolen from Ennis. This was Punisher. Not just MAX, all of it.
Dominic West was rad. Ray Stevenson was an awesome Frank. Fucking Newman! Good action. Actually emotionally resonant parts. Nice satire. Great one-liners. It was everything the Jayne movie should have been. The Netflix series holds the Punisher MAX spirit closer to it especially in Daredevil Season 2 and Bernthal is still probably the best Frank Castle in my book, but this was a celebration of everything Frank from his beginning to MAX.
Also the Dirty Laundry short was meh. Frank possibly let a woman get raped when he knew she was out there? That’s what that scene read to me. Like that’s fucking horrid and wouldn’t happen. The last time something like that happened people were thrown into shatter proof windows for an hour, had their intestines wrapped around a tree, and set on fire
Posts
They can't make him too aggressive or it'll turn off audiences, since they want to relate and sympathise with people. They touched a bit on this
The Punisher is a person. While he has been written as a force of nature that characterisation is suited to an antagonistic role like in Daredevil and they still gave him depth and made him sympathetic. They can't do that with him where he's the lead in every scene, that's why they toned him down for the second season.
The 2000s era Punisher movies did a good job of making Frank sympathetic without also trying too hard to make him relatable.
The Thomas Jane punisher is still my favourite. The Dirty Laundry short just rubbed salt into the wound that we won’t get another one.
At the time I was kind of salty that they recast Jane for Punisher Warzone. I had really enjoyed the 2004 punisher movie and really wanted to see more of him. The thing is that Ray Stevens play the character so well and Warzone was a damn good movie. He's the only actor so far to get a proper Punisher story. They didn't have to shoehorn in an origin story and started the movie with a well established Punisher taking care of business. Casting Newman as Micro was a stroke of genius. I read a lot of of MAX comics ater Warzone came out and developed a real appreciation for the movie. Warzone's Jigsaw was a million times better than the Netflix version. Dominic West is a great actor and brought much needed clout to the movie.
Edit: I think the artists for MAX started drawing Punisher to look like Ray Stevenson around the same time.
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What was so extra bad about Madani shooting Mahoney? He snuck up on her when she thought her life was in danger. I mean she did tons of shit that would get her fired, but that specific thing is pretty low on the "What the fuck was she thinking?" meter.
Law enforcement is trained to determine friend from foe before pulling the trigger, for exactly this reason. Despite all evidence to the contrary, Madani is a federal cop.
She could have KILLED Mahoney (and would have if he wasn't wearing a vest), and it's okay just because he wasn't loud enough while examining a crime scene? What?
Also the journalist that said this season would be an adaption of The Slavers from MAX was also a big liar.
We just got up to
I don't care about Pilgrim at aaaaaall.
Not to mention shes Special Agent in Charge in freakin NYC. Yet she never seems to do any actual work or even go into the office anymore.
they frankly would've been better off having her be a burnout after last season and working as a loose cannon like Frank
They could have easily still had her on medical leave or had the FBI shrink not sign off on her returning to duty, especially with her obsession. It felt like they found out midway through writing it, that it was there last season, so I had to have Jigsaw's story take over or something.
I think that's just what they were doing with Madani in Season 2.
Minor-ish spoiler from this season shown early like ep or so I think
Otherwise though dang. Each episode has me wanting more.
The Thomas Jane one is pretty bad
Punisher Warzone is peak campy action movie. Think Crank with the Punisher
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Jessica Jones is coming. They already shot it so it'll drop between two and four months after Punisher. After that, no more Netflix series.
Disney has a couple of options for non-kid fare such as Punisher. They either never do it again (which I'm guessing will happen), make it PG-13 and put it on Disney Plus like the Loki and Hawkeye/Falcon shows, make it PG-13 and put it on Hulu like Runaways, or make it MA and put it on Hulu (which I'm guessing will never happen).
It was dumb and just kind of watchable where all of its good parts were from the Ennis run and even then they weren’t as good.
Alright yea, Punisher is my fav of the Netflix Marvel shows. Dang that was so good.
I'm really hoping something turns around and we get more of this somewhere.
Now Folks
Punisher Warzone
This is possibly the greatest blending of not only Ennis’s 616 and MAX runs but also the 80s and 90s Punisher. To me, the EOD style armour looks like modernized spandex he used to wear. The Thomas Jayne movie was schlock with distillate decent parts stolen from Ennis. This was Punisher. Not just MAX, all of it.
Dominic West was rad. Ray Stevenson was an awesome Frank. Fucking Newman! Good action. Actually emotionally resonant parts. Nice satire. Great one-liners. It was everything the Jayne movie should have been. The Netflix series holds the Punisher MAX spirit closer to it especially in Daredevil Season 2 and Bernthal is still probably the best Frank Castle in my book, but this was a celebration of everything Frank from his beginning to MAX.
Also the Dirty Laundry short was meh. Frank possibly let a woman get raped when he knew she was out there? That’s what that scene read to me. Like that’s fucking horrid and wouldn’t happen. The last time something like that happened people were thrown into shatter proof windows for an hour, had their intestines wrapped around a tree, and set on fire