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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] My Better Brexit Deal Goes To Another School

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Posts

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    In other "they need us more than we need them" news:

    https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1Q41K9
    (Reuters) - The value of Irish goods exports rose by 15 percent to a record 140 billion euros (£123 billion) last year as a fall in the goods sold into Britain was substantially offset by increases to almost all of Ireland's other major trade partners.

    RoI is going to benefit hugely from this as the only remaining primary English speaking nation in the EU.

    *Pushes glasses up nose*
    Actually I think you'll find Ireland's official language for the EU is Irish Gaelic. With the UK leaving no nation in the EU will have English as their official language

    Not that it matters in reality though. You are completely correct.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    That Reuters article nearly illustrates the point that at least some in the EU27 are well advanced in implementing contingency planning which involves reducing their reliance on the UK as a trading partner. Ireland is probably the place where the shift is most pronounced but i think this is going to be the case for most.

    Which in turn demonstrates the extent to which the damage had already been done. Those are major trade flows being redirected, and even if we call the whole thing off next week and revoke A50, they aren't coming back in the short to medium term.

    Edit: this is also something that is being bandied about in Scottish Indy circles, as a case in point that just because a given nation is heavily reliant on a single trading partner (i..e. England and rUK), that doesn't make it any kind of natural law. There are policy levers that can be used to reorient quite quickly assuming you have other, nearby potential trading partners.

    japan on
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  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I’d vote for Sooty if he came out and said Brexit was a stupid fucking idea.

    But on the flip side, Sue is doing her best get Sweep deported
    Goumindong wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    In other "they need us more than we need them" news:

    https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1Q41K9
    (Reuters) - The value of Irish goods exports rose by 15 percent to a record 140 billion euros (£123 billion) last year as a fall in the goods sold into Britain was substantially offset by increases to almost all of Ireland's other major trade partners.

    RoI is going to benefit hugely from this as the only remaining primary English speaking nation in the EU.

    *Pushes glasses up nose*
    Actually I think you'll find Ireland's official language for the EU is Irish Gaelic. With the UK leaving no nation in the EU will have English as their official language

    Not that it matters in reality though. You are completely correct.

    Malta's in the same boat as Ireland. Its official languages are English and Maltese but its national language re: the EU is just Maltese.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
    tynic
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    Carole is a journalist for The Guardian/Observer and has done a lot of work on the shady goings on of Aaron Banks and the Vote Leave campaign:



    It's deeply concerning that official investigations into the Brexit campaign are so slow and quiet (believe the NCA is investigating).

    It'd be hilarious if Mueller brought down a few of our nutjobs as well.

    SharpyVII on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Theresa May urges Tory MPs to unite and back deal
    Well, problem solved.
    Theresa May has urged Conservative MPs to put aside "personal preferences" and support a Brexit deal in the Commons.

    In a letter to all 317 Tory members of Parliament, the prime minister said "history will judge us all" over the handling of Brexit.
    I'm sure that this will work.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Theresa May urges Tory MPs to unite and back deal
    Well, problem solved.
    Theresa May has urged Conservative MPs to put aside "personal preferences" and support a Brexit deal in the Commons.

    In a letter to all 317 Tory members of Parliament, the prime minister said "history will judge us all" over the handling of Brexit.
    I'm sure that this will work.

    She's definitely not wrong at the end of the last para either.

    I just don't think she'll like how she'll be judged. At best it'll be "took the UK to the brink of insanity, for no reaon beyond her ego, costing $x million dollars, and Y thousand jobs".

    And that's likely the BEST she can hope for.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    I mean, again, once again I have to agree with the literal words she said.

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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Theresa May urges Tory MPs to unite and back deal
    Well, problem solved.
    Theresa May has urged Conservative MPs to put aside "personal preferences" and support a Brexit deal in the Commons.

    In a letter to all 317 Tory members of Parliament, the prime minister said "history will judge us all" over the handling of Brexit.
    I'm sure that this will work.

    Does she mean the deal the EU will actually accept, or...?
    The prime minister will return to Brussels to meet European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker this week, as she continues to seek changes to the deal.

    She will also speak to the leaders of every EU member state over the coming days, her letter to MPs says.

    Mrs May is trying to secure changes to the Irish backstop, an insurance policy designed to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic after Brexit.

    Oh.

    shrykeGnome-Interruptus
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Has she actually tried to negotiate anything new yet? The best I could make out was her going everywhere and essentially just saying "Don't panic, I can come up with something new", then leaving and going somewhere else before actually doing so.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited February 17
    I see people are not so excited to post the Opinium poll showing Labour and the Tories back neck and neck after the massive swing a couple of week ls ago.

    Alistair Hutton on
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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    The idea that the tories are merely dead level with the opposition after the last 2.5 years (in fact after the last 9 years) is not something I can feel "excited" about.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    The idea that the tories are merely dead level with the opposition after the last 2.5 years (in fact after the last 9 years) is not something I can feel "excited" about.

    Remember that things aren't that bad right now, and corbyn is utterly worthless at presenting himself and his party outside a campaign environment. If there was an actual election, labor plus lib dems plus snp would win, which is why we aren't having one

    Once brexit or the deal happens, we'll see how all these leavers deal with actual bad things, rather than imagined ones.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Some of them seem quite excited about it already:
    Six pro-Brexit protesters charged after London 'yellow vest' march
    Six people have been charged after a number of police officers and emergency workers were attacked at a pro-Brexit yellow vest protest march in London.

    The protesters were demanding a no-deal Brexit, an end to immigration, and an end to what they see as mainstream fake news and justice for three teenage boys killed by a drink-driver in London in 2018.
    "Things are bad. We demand that they become worse."

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Mayabird
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    The idea that the tories are merely dead level with the opposition after the last 2.5 years (in fact after the last 9 years) is not something I can feel "excited" about.

    The issue is that there is no discernible difference between each party. The biggest issue is Brexit and both are desperately trying to be the ones steering the car over the cliff, meanwhile the Lib Dems, while opposed to Brexit, have remained relatively non-vocal about it. But even if they were highly vocal, the system means they don't matter anyway. Maybe a more competent leadership team could lead them to actively try and court the Labour votes and even the MPs over, but I don't know how realistic that is since most of Labour seems to fall in life for COrbyn.

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  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    I see people are not so excited to post the Opinium poll showing Labour and the Tories back neck and neck after the massive swing a couple of week ls ago.


    I hadn't actually seen any polls for a couple of days. It's difficult to keep up with every colossal blunder the Tories are making. One week the defence secretary scuppers trade talks with China and the next, I dunno, the Home Secretary shits in his hand during PMQs.

    I think I'm going to assume they'll start any nearby general election roughly even. Which is still shockingly poor considering how bad the Tories are, but hey ho.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    The replies to that tweet are head-desk inducing
    JLR recently opened a new factory in Slovakia with 125 million of EU money then fired thousands of employees in the UK. It's been going on for decades, the quicker we leave the sooner we can stop it.

    ... how?? how the fuck will this stop it???

    edit: Maybe I've misunderstood the Leave desires all along. "Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean keeping people out, they think they can like, lock the doors and force manufacturing to stay, or something.

    I think people have misunderstood them by believing they're anything more than Trumpists with posher accents. All the non-rich right-wingers of the world want to do is punch down and get away with it. (Rich right-wingers want that and also the ability to keep getting richer.) That's it. They believe that building the wall or leaving the EU or whatever will somehow magically give them infinite power so they can push everyone else around all the time without repercussion. They do not at all realize that they would be the people getting kicked around afterward, but honestly if they did they wouldn't care so long as they were allowed at least one scapegoat that was treated worse than them.

    So yeah, this fits their worldview. Magical emotional thinking, so somehow they can make people do whatever they want, so manufacturing stays and also Ireland becomes an English colony again and the rest of the world bows down to British might. Just like Trump's narcissism, they think they are owed everyone always sucking up to them and telling them how amazing and perfect they are nonstop. The only real difference is Brits still kinda remember to dogwhistle and disambulate rather than bringing it all out on the surface.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular


    bbc political correspondent

    been hearing a lot of this recently, wonder if this is more serious

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    Mayabird wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    The replies to that tweet are head-desk inducing
    JLR recently opened a new factory in Slovakia with 125 million of EU money then fired thousands of employees in the UK. It's been going on for decades, the quicker we leave the sooner we can stop it.

    ... how?? how the fuck will this stop it???

    edit: Maybe I've misunderstood the Leave desires all along. "Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean keeping people out, they think they can like, lock the doors and force manufacturing to stay, or something.

    I think people have misunderstood them by believing they're anything more than Trumpists with posher accents. All the non-rich right-wingers of the world want to do is punch down and get away with it. (Rich right-wingers want that and also the ability to keep getting richer.) That's it. They believe that building the wall or leaving the EU or whatever will somehow magically give them infinite power so they can push everyone else around all the time without repercussion. They do not at all realize that they would be the people getting kicked around afterward, but honestly if they did they wouldn't care so long as they were allowed at least one scapegoat that was treated worse than them.

    So yeah, this fits their worldview. Magical emotional thinking, so somehow they can make people do whatever they want, so manufacturing stays and also Ireland becomes an English colony again and the rest of the world bows down to British might. Just like Trump's narcissism, they think they are owed everyone always sucking up to them and telling them how amazing and perfect they are nonstop. The only real difference is Brits still kinda remember to dogwhistle and disambulate rather than bringing it all out on the surface.

    There are definitely a ton of people who are below them in hierarchy

    This includes people in less developed nations

    Platy on
    MayabirdCouscous
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/labour-mp-paul-flynn-dies-aged-84
    Paul Flynn, the Labour MP for Newport West, has died, his local association has announced. He was 84.

    So does this trigger a by-election?

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I'm really curious how US relations with the UK are going to look like post Brexit. The conservatives are predictably convinced that Brexit is the best idea ever, because they hate the EU as much as the Leavers, so I imagine we're going to try and do something that exploits the crisis and takes advantage of the UK while saying how wonderful it is for freedom and the economy, I just don't know what precise shape their dickery will take.

    “You know all those food safety regulations you’re so fond of? How about if you don’t want food shortages you start removing them”

    Surplus American cheese and soybeans will be dumped on Britain. Somehow you'll probably pay far more than its value, and Trump will afterward have a rally in the Midwest to claim he's the bestest dealmaker ever. So you know, insult added to injury.

    Shadowhope
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    thats ok i will take an undefined quantity of american cheese, it is the best, the more orange and plastic the better i will eat infinite quantities

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited February 18
    I wouldn't mind if the American cheese I can buy in my supermarket was actually from the US

    But my sister started making her own yoghurt a year ago and I must say it made me have kind of weird feelings about milk (most supermarket milk has stuff in it which can really mess up a yoghurt)

    Platy on
  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    thats ok i will take an undefined quantity of american cheese, it is the best, the more orange and plastic the better i will eat infinite quantities

    Finally, a positive to Brexit.

    Rhesus Positive
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    thats ok i will take an undefined quantity of american cheese, it is the best, the more orange and plastic the better i will eat infinite quantities

    I'm usually a cheese snob, but this recipe is legit amazing:
    1 pack ramen noodles with flavor packet
    1 large egg
    ½ teaspoon butter
    2 slices American cheese
    ¼ teaspoon toasted sesame seeds
    ½ scallion, green part only, thinly sliced on the bias, optional

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited February 18
    thats ok i will take an undefined quantity of american cheese, it is the best, the more orange and plastic the better i will eat infinite quantities

    Colby and Monterey Jack are both cheeses made in America that are just fine (ie, not processed). Although I prefer cheddar, to be honest.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited February 18
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    thats ok i will take an undefined quantity of american cheese, it is the best, the more orange and plastic the better i will eat infinite quantities

    Colby and Monterey Jack are both cheeses made in America that are just fine (ie, not processed). Although I prefer cheddar, to be honest.

    America has a massive number of excellent domestic cheeses made by traditional processes and natural ingredients. They're also pretty pricey. Exporting most of them probably wouldn't be that profitable, although there are probably a few specialty shops or places like the Borough Market who could stock them.

    America also has a massive number of mass produced cheese products that contain a lot of ingredients that could only be described as "natural" in the sense that they technically or the precursor chemicals that created them did originate on the planet Earth. Those are the ones the trade agreements are going to want you to buy a lot of.

    Phillishere on
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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    "American cheese (product)" is the best cheese-like substance you can buy, I don't see what the problem is.

    Unless you want cheese, because then you are shit out of luck.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Every now and then, I feel like I want to be upset about the sort of alleged "cheese" that my country's name gets attached to.
    And then I have to admit, "yeah, it's a fair cop."

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Richland, WARegistered User regular
    American cheese is a great melting cheese. It's perfect for cheeseburgers or grilled cheese or any number of situations where you want a melty cheese like substance.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    It seems there was far more credence to those Labour Party split rumors than I had believed. Or at least, BBC news is reporting that several MPs are expected to quit the party today, citing Labour sources.


    I don’t see anything about a similar Tory party split though, which was another aspect of the rumor.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    aiieeee, Brexilla!

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  • CroakerBCCroakerBC YorkRegistered User regular
    It seems there was far more credence to those Labour Party split rumors than I had believed. Or at least, BBC news is reporting that several MPs are expected to quit the party today, citing Labour sources.


    I don’t see anything about a similar Tory party split though, which was another aspect of the rumor.

    Just what we've all wanted: Another leftish party coming along to split the anti-Tory vote.
    (I hate FPTP so much. SO MUCH.)

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Deep Thinker Quentin Letts comes out in favour of Singke Market memebershil and signing up for Schengen



    I don't mind these wankers being idiots, but when they are patronising doing so it is enraging.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »


    Political editor of the Sun. That same confident ignorance and amateurish stupidity shows no sign of dying out in the newer Tory MPs. Make a big tough boy speech, inadvertently knacker the trade talks. The next Chris Grayling.

    Fear not! Her Majesty’s Government have a foolproof plan to tackle accidentally souring trade negotiations with China.

    They’ve accidentally soured trade negotiations with Japan too, to make it fair.


    Henry is the political correspondent with the Financial Times.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »


    Political editor of the Sun. That same confident ignorance and amateurish stupidity shows no sign of dying out in the newer Tory MPs. Make a big tough boy speech, inadvertently knacker the trade talks. The next Chris Grayling.

    Fear not! Her Majesty’s Government have a foolproof plan to tackle accidentally souring trade negotiations with China.

    They’ve accidentally soured trade negotiations with Japan too, to make it fair.


    Henry is the political correspondent with the Financial Times.

    Considering the past, oh, 700 years of relations between China and Japan, that is quite the feat

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    thats ok i will take an undefined quantity of american cheese, it is the best, the more orange and plastic the better i will eat infinite quantities

    In the words of Liz Truss, that is a disgrace.

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited February 18
    So a big report was released last night that goes in to Facebook, Fake news and general election meddling etc

    Some relevant quotes:
    The source of £435,000 donated to the Democratic Unionist party remains unknown.

    A group calling itself the Constitutional Research Council donated £435,000 to the DUP, the single largest known donation in Northern Irish history, to be spent campaigning for Brexit. Northern Ireland donations prior to 2017 are secret.
    Leave.EU is accused of misleading parliament

    The report also criticises the insurance businessman and founder of Leave.EU Arron Banks, who has been referred to the National Crime Agency over questions about his wealth and the source of the funds behind his campaign.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/feb/18/key-points-from-parliamentary-inquiry-into-disinformation

    Not holding my breath for anything meaningful to come of this however.

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  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Our country has absolutely no way of handling electoral advertising fraud, policy is already made by the time it is all exposed.

    Is there even a good way of dealing with this?

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Our country has absolutely no way of handling electoral advertising fraud, policy is already made by the time it is all exposed.

    Is there even a good way of dealing with this?

    Throwing people in jail and fining them into bankruptcy would be at least a start, but there aren't a whole lot of good answers to discovering election fraud after the election. From what I've seen of the other election violations in the UK the worst that DUP will get is a 10k fine and a letter asking them to please not do it again.

    The only possible upside to the Labour split is that it might mean more yelling against Brexit as the various media outlets do interviews with the MPs that are leaving. I'm pretty much grasping at straws there.

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This discussion has been closed.